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Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

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Pyperkub
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Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:18 pm

Ok, technically it's fed through the nose, but still:
The trial was what the researchers called "open label," meaning that people were aware they were having a feeding tube stuffed down their nose to deliver someone else's poop into their body...

...The authors had originally planned to get 40 patients for each group, but the fecal transplants were so successful, they stopped the trial after only 16 patients had received a transplant. Of these, 13 (80 percent) were cured after a single transplant. Two of the remaining three were cured after their second, bringing the success rate up to over 90 percent. In contrast, the success rate of vancomycin treatments was down around 30 percent.

The biggest problem? Enrolling patients. Most people who agreed to participate in the trial only did so after conventional treatments failed several times, "reflecting the reluctance of patients and physicians to choose donor-feces infusion at an early stage."
I think I'd be reluctant too... but you can't argue with the results (or at least, they seem pretty solid...).
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by nasai » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:21 pm

That is just... nutty.
Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there are no sweeter words than "I told you so."

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:22 pm

nasai wrote:That is just... nutty.
Let me guess, you're on the placebo ;)
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by em2nought » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:41 am

I feel a bit better about all the sewer drains I've been snaking lately for reading that. lol
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Daehawk » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:39 am

That could be a dark stain on the medical world. I bet some patients leave kid marks getting out of there.
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by soulbringer » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:10 am

Ive actually had to do this. Not to me but to someone else. Let me tell you that is a vile concoction to be putting down a ng tube. I can only imagine being the recipient. It was all I could do to not puke myself. But like the studies show, it was successful for stopping the C-diff infection.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Daehawk » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:00 am

An ep of Grey's Anatomy did this once. Some woman was a serious germaphobe and had killed off all her good bacteria and had to eat her husbands crap. He said she finally had to take his crap after he had taken all hers for years.
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Holman » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:54 am

Pyperkub wrote:
nasai wrote:That is just... nutty.
Let me guess, you're on the placebo ;)
:D
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by morlac » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:26 pm

While the Thread title is solid you totally should have stolen the caption on the picture from the linked article "What can Brown do for you?" :D

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by MHS » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:25 pm

I'm on a 10-day cycle of Metronidazole to treat my latest round of colitis right now. I get c-diff colitis almost every time I'm on antibiotics now. Because of my decreased immune system with my failing kidneys, I get urinary tract infections pretty frequently, which leads to antibiotics, which leads to colitis. I can honestly say that Metronidazole is the foulest drug I've ever been on...google it sometime and you'll see thousands of people talking about how yuck this drug is. I would probably consider doing the shit treatment if they could guarantee stopping the constant round of colitis/drugs once and for all, because the colitis is bad and the drug is almost as bad as what it's supposed to be curing.

Science is weird.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Kraken » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:47 pm

Seems like there ought to be a more, um, clinical way of delivering the beneficial bacteria, like culturing and encapsulating them. Maybe that's too much effort and expense to bypass a little squeamishness.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Smoove_B » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:04 pm

There is. I feel like this keeps coming up, but last week RePOOPulate was announced as a possible synthetic replacement for a straight-up transplant.

EDIT: And you also have Jasper Lawrence, an individual that believes having a hookworm infection cured his allergies, and possibly might cure diabetes, asthma and IBS in others.

So take your pick.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Isgrimnur » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:45 pm

I knew we'd been here before...

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:02 pm

NY Times
Two patients contracted severe infections, and one of them died, from fecal transplants that contained drug-resistant bacteria, the Food and Drug Administration reported on Thursday.

As a result, the agency is halting a number of clinical trials until the researchers conducting them can demonstrate that they have procedures in place to screen donated stool for dangerous organisms, said Dr. Peter Marks, director of the agency’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. In an interview, he did not specify how many trials would be suspended, but said it was “not just a few.”
...
In the newly reported cases, both patients’ immune systems were already compromised at the time of the transplant, the F.D.A. said. The agency would not explain why they were immuno-compromised, why they were given the transplants, who performed the procedures or when or where the cases occurred.

Both transplants came from the same donor’s fecal matter. The report does not state whether the fecal material was given in liquid form as an infusion into the digestive tract or swallowed as pills.

Other samples from the same donor were tested after the patients got sick. The samples were found to harbor the same dangerous germs found in the patients, known as multi-drug-resistant organisms. They were E. coli bacteria that produced an enzyme called extended-spectrum beta-lactamase, which makes them resistant to multiple antibiotics. The stool had not been tested for the germs before being given to the patients.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Drazzil » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:27 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:02 pm
NY Times
Two patients contracted severe infections, and one of them died, from fecal transplants that contained drug-resistant bacteria, the Food and Drug Administration reported on Thursday.

As a result, the agency is halting a number of clinical trials until the researchers conducting them can demonstrate that they have procedures in place to screen donated stool for dangerous organisms, said Dr. Peter Marks, director of the agency’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. In an interview, he did not specify how many trials would be suspended, but said it was “not just a few.”
...
In the newly reported cases, both patients’ immune systems were already compromised at the time of the transplant, the F.D.A. said. The agency would not explain why they were immuno-compromised, why they were given the transplants, who performed the procedures or when or where the cases occurred.

Both transplants came from the same donor’s fecal matter. The report does not state whether the fecal material was given in liquid form as an infusion into the digestive tract or swallowed as pills.

Other samples from the same donor were tested after the patients got sick. The samples were found to harbor the same dangerous germs found in the patients, known as multi-drug-resistant organisms. They were E. coli bacteria that produced an enzyme called extended-spectrum beta-lactamase, which makes them resistant to multiple antibiotics. The stool had not been tested for the germs before being given to the patients.
This is a major setback for a treatment that showed such promise.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by $iljanus » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:03 pm

Well screening for drug resistant pathogens in your product is probably a good start. If the science is still solid they could concentrate on better quality control.
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Drazzil » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:25 pm

$iljanus wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:03 pm
Well screening for drug resistant pathogens in your product is probably a good start. If the science is still solid they could concentrate on better quality control.
Yes, they can and probabally should have to begin with.
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by MHS » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:14 pm

The first time this was posted, I was on drugs for c-diff. Here it is however many years later, and hey guess what, I have c-diff again (and have had it numerous times in between). I was hospitalized and then Picc-lined in the neck for an antibiotic-resistant kidney infection in February and I developed c-diff from the IV antibiotics in March. They put me on vancomycin but it didn't clear it. I'm having to do a stool study to see if I'm resistant to the antiobiotics intended for c-diff.

I'm very confident that this is how I'll die, either from c-diff or a kidney infection that is antibiotic-resistant and they can't cure it. I'm not saying it will happen anytime soon, but considering how the trend is proceeding, I think I can predict WHAT I die from with some level of certainty (barring weird accidents) if not the when or where parts. So...poop emoji, I guess.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Drazzil » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:17 pm

MHS wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:14 pm
The first time this was posted, I was on drugs for c-diff. Here it is however many years later, and hey guess what, I have c-diff again (and have had it numerous times in between). I was hospitalized and then Picc-lined in the neck for an antibiotic-resistant kidney infection in February and I developed c-diff from the IV antibiotics in March. They put me on vancomycin but it didn't clear it. I'm having to do a stool study to see if I'm resistant to the antiobiotics intended for c-diff.

I'm very confident that this is how I'll die, either from c-diff or a kidney infection that is antibiotic-resistant and they can't cure it. I'm not saying it will happen anytime soon, but considering how the trend is proceeding, I think I can predict WHAT I die from with some level of certainty (barring weird accidents) if not the when or where parts. So...poop emoji, I guess.
:cry:

Prayers sent.
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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:35 pm

NBC News
Fecal transplants may ease the painful and distressing symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome — if those transplants come from people dubbed “super donors,” according to a study presented Sunday.

The large, randomized double-blind placebo controlled trial — considered the gold standard for medical research — found that fecal microbiota transplantation significantly improved IBS symptoms in nearly half of patients. The study was presented by lead researcher Magdy El-Salhy, a professor in the department of clinical medicine at the University of Bergen in Norway, at the annual United European Gastroenterology Week in Spain.
...
Before treatment the patients were asked in detail about their symptoms. They were then randomly assigned to receive 30 grams of a solution containing their own feces — the placebo — or one of two doses (30g or 60g) containing feces from a so-called super donor. The doses were delivered to the small intestine through a tube inserted into the mouth and down the throat.

Three months later, the patients were again asked to detail their symptoms. Compared to before treatment, 23.6 percent of patients in the placebo group reported moderate symptom improvement. In the group that received the lower dose of super donor feces, 76.9 reported a moderate response, and in the higher dose group, 89.1 percent.

More important, they also found symptom remission — meaning that symptoms went away entirely — in 35.2 percent of those in the lower dose group, and in 47.3 percent of those in the higher dose group. That’s compared to 5.5 percent of the patients in the placebo group who reported symptom remission.
...
“We had a carefully selected donor from several candidates who had traits known to affect intestinal microbiota positively,” El-Salhy said. Overall, the donor was healthy, had been breast fed, consumed a nutritious diet, took no regular medications, was a nonsmoker and had taken antibiotics only a few times, he said.

Experts were heartened by the results, but somewhat skeptical about the idea of a super donor, since it wasn’t clear how El-Salhy’s results could be duplicated.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:50 pm

NBC News
In June, the Food and Drug Administration announced that one patient had died and another was sickened from a fecal transplant, spurring the agency to set new safety guidelines for the procedure. But the announcement, which offered little information on the two cases, left doctors clamoring for more details.

A report published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine fills in the gaps. It was written by doctors from the Massachusetts General Hospital, where the two patients had been participating in two separate clinical trials involving fecal microbiota transplants, or FMTs.
...
One of the patients described in the new report was given FMT in a trial to learn whether the treatment could help improve brain function in people with severe liver disease.

People with late liver failure can develop brain problems that affect thinking, Hohmann said. These patients also have very altered gut bacteria, and one hypothesis is that compounds created by these gut microbes can get into the bloodstream and affect the brain, she said.

Two and a half weeks after the patient’s last FMT dose, a form of E. coli resistant to multiple drugs was found in the patient’s bloodstream. Intravenous antibiotics killed off the bacteria and the patient recovered. When the researchers investigated the source of the patient’s infection, they discovered that the stool sample used for the FMT contained the multidrug-resistant organism.

As it turns out, that same donor stool had also been used in another patient, one who was participating in a different clinical trial. That trial was looking at using FMT in leukemia patients who had received chemotherapy and stem cell transplants to rebuild their immune systems.
...
But this patient developed the same life-threatening infection with drug-resistant E. coli shortly after FMT was finished. Indeed, the same type of E. coli from the same stool donor was found in the patient’s bloodstream, testing revealed. Despite aggressive treatment, Hohmann and her colleagues wrote, they weren’t able to save the patient.
...
Following the patient death, the FDA announced guidelines requiring that both donors and their stool be screened for multidrug-resistant organisms, including the one implicated in these two cases. But it’s important to remember that there may be other such organisms out there that aren’t being screened for, Hohmann said. “We can increase the ways we look for this, but we can’t 100 percent eliminate it,” she added.

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Re: Eat Sh*t and ... get Healthy?

Post by Freyland » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:59 pm

“We can increase the ways we look for this, but we can’t 100 percent eliminate it,” she added
So basically, shit happens.
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