Girl expelled from school for Science Project-update

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue May 14, 2013 4:33 pm

Couldn't find the original thread here...

Homer Hickam is paying for her a scholarship and he is asking for help to pay for her sister's:

http://spaceref.com/nasa-hack-space/hom ... ested.html" target="_blank

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue May 14, 2013 5:16 pm

Can't read the story. Gaudy wallpaper, social media bar, javascript crash.

Good for him though. I think.

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Tue May 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Good for her - I hope she doesn't get stuck with any felonies past age 18 if at all.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Tue May 14, 2013 6:22 pm

Article gave no details, but it sounds like a zero tolerance issue, which always sucks.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue May 14, 2013 7:02 pm

I'm going to be perceived as an asshole, but I'm still not convinced that she didn't know exactly what she was doing. Arrested for a science experiment? She built an explosive at the school before class. It was one that I used to make for kicks as a teenager, and I know exactly how much damage it can do (it can turn a steel mail box inside out, and can tear most of the fingers off of your hand.) She claims that she didn't know what it would do, but I challenge anyone to find the recipe for it without also finding a big bold title 'make a bomb!' or 'exploding pop bottle!' She said she thought it only made smoke, but in order for it to explode, she'd have had to completely seal the reaction inside of the bottle (IE - no smoke.) Oh, and what it makes is a big cloud of chlorine hydrogen gas.

It still sound to me like she did something stupid on purpose, got caught, and made an excuse which the media picked up on with the catchy 'arrested for science experiment' headline.

The degree of the punishment went overboard, but building a bomb at school? Who wouldn't get arrested for that?

killbot737 · Post by **killbot737** » Tue May 14, 2013 8:57 pm

Someone put mentos and diet coke in a Pressure Cooker! BOMB! Call FBI INS CIA TSA

EXPEL!

PS Blackhawk you are an asshole. I am going to time travel back to when you were in HS and Strickland your attitude, you slacker!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue May 14, 2013 9:11 pm

killbot737 wrote:Someone put mentos and diet coke in a Pressure Cooker! BOMB! Call FBI INS CIA TSA

Yeah. This is different stuff. This swells the coke bottle up like a balloon until it bursts with a great deal of energy, and creates a great deal of heat. I've also seen them shoot shards of sharp plastic like shrapnel.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue May 14, 2013 11:57 pm

It's a "Drano Bomb"

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp" target="_blank

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed May 15, 2013 12:01 am

Kasey Chang wrote:It's a "Drano Bomb"

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp" target="_blank

This is what a "Drano Bomb" did to my mailbox a couple years ago. What you don't see is 3 other fragments of the post and the box itself sitting about 40 yards away on my neighbor's lawn.

If that's what it was, then I'm with Blackhawk on this one. This is some seriously dangerous shit, and she should face some pretty serious consequences over it.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed May 15, 2013 8:22 am

I'm with Blackhawk here. It sounds like she knew exactly what she was doing. And the fact that her science teacher said it had nothing to do with class seems to reinforce the idea that she was just messing around for fun. I'm not necessarily sure that she needed to get expelled from the school, especially since she had no other record of bad behavior, put some sort of punishment was definitely in order.

Madmarcus · Post by **Madmarcus** » Wed May 15, 2013 10:24 am

I'll admit that I really haven't looked for more details but I have an opinion anyway.

If she made the explosives on campus or brought the explosives to campus she should be in serious trouble but I don't think she should be expelled. I'm sure she knew that she was making an explosive but unless there is reason to suspect that she meant to do damage to the school or people I don't see it as an offense that should lead to expulsion.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Wed May 15, 2013 10:36 am

I am sure she is not the only "kid" who has made an exsplosive. Bringing it to school was a bad idea. Especially right now. Yes, I agree she most likely knew what she was doing and was trying to push limits. Now is a bad time to do that. What happens if something had gone wrong? For those who don't know. At columbine. They had bombs in their cars where first responders would be and throughout the cafeteria that did not go off because they were "bad" bomb makers.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed May 15, 2013 10:37 am

The part where the science teacher says there was no "science project" sorta tells the story, right?

I mean, she paints the picture of her being interested in science and that this was done in connection with that - but the science teacher leaves her totally hanging in the wind? I don't think that's likely.

MHS · Post by **MHS** » Wed May 15, 2013 10:47 am

Unagi wrote:The part where the science teacher says there was no "science project" sorta tells the story, right?

I mean, she paints the picture of her being interested in science and that this was done in connection with that - but the science teacher leaves her totally hanging in the wind? I don't think that's likely.

Yeah, I'm not sure she should be expelled but there's no way she should be rewarded.

It's all in the timing and viral response, I guess. Like the bus monitor who didn't do her job and got like a half-million dollars for being bullied. We're a weird society.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 15, 2013 11:00 am

There is zero tolernace for bringing a weapon to school. She brought a weapon to school. Sorry but the school really had no choice but to expel her. If she had blown some poor kid's hand off (or worse) it wouldn't be in question and she would be facing even stiffer charges. I'd hope that during her trial her attorney(s) and the judge look into motive for bringing it to school and her history etc to determine what actual punishment she deserves but the school's hands are tied in this matter. The school is charged with treating all kids equally and protecting all the kids. They let her bring a bomb to school then they have to let everyone bring a bomb to school.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 15, 2013 11:06 am

Yeah assuming that things are as they appear to be (and certainly these stories can get wildly distorted through the press) expelling her seems reasonable at the very least. I'm more hesitant about the criminal charges - the most probable explanation is that she was being an idiot but didn't intend to set it off. Giving her potentially two felony convictions when she's just a kid seems extreme.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed May 15, 2013 11:15 am

Unagi wrote:The part where the science teacher says there was no "science project" sorta tells the story, right?

.

I read it as it was a science project but the science teacher did not authorize her science project.

If it was a science project then she showed poor judgement. She should have been punished but to me expulsion and felony is extreme especially considering how outstanding of a student she was. I have never agreed with the everyone student should be treated equal crap. That is a problem with society today, it is black or white with no gray area. A kid that brings ibuprofen to school is treated the same as the one that brings pot.

In the criminal system 1st time offenders often get less punishment than repeat offenders.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed May 15, 2013 11:44 am

Actually, the fact that the science teacher wasn't involved doesn't bother me that much. When I was young, I did science experiments fairly regularly that had nothing to do with school (and no, that wasn't an aphorism for anything.)

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 15, 2013 11:54 am

Blackhawk wrote:Actually, the fact that the science teacher wasn't involved doesn't bother me that much. When I was young, I did science experiments fairly regularly that had nothing to do with school (and no, that wasn't an aphorism for anything.)

I think the point of mentioning that the science teacher was not involved is it shows there was a lack of oversight in the project. You can do explosions in school with the teacher's supervision to make sure proper safety precautions are taken. Doing it on her own means there was likely little to no saftey equpiment/procedures/etc. It all goes back to being a saftey issue for the other students. Would you trust some random student to build and detonate a bomb around your child? Unless you answered yes, there is the problem the school has with her choices.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed May 15, 2013 4:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Actually, the fact that the science teacher wasn't involved doesn't bother me that much. When I was young, I did science experiments fairly regularly that had nothing to do with school (and no, that wasn't an aphorism for anything.)

I think you meant euphemism.

But my point here was that she brought it to school, and then defended it all by saying it was a science project.

Maybe this is just hyper-semantics at play, but... the term 'project' to a kid that is in Science Class is usually an assignment.
I realize that many kids run little science experiments (or projects, if we want to call them that) all the time that aren't started in a classroom - but she tried to (at least it seems to me) associate this project with school, and it wasn't. (other than this was the place she brought her contraption).

Girl expelled from school for Science Project... Not sure if I was the only one, but I pictured a girl bringing her science project into the gym during the school's Science Fair (think: Meet the Robinsons) and she was expelled for what she brought. That's not what happened. Instead, she brought something that could be called a bomb, or it could be called "a Science Project", to school - and was expelled for that.

Girl expelled from school for bringing a bomb and tells everyone it's just a Science Project, that's more like it.

silvaril · Post by **silvaril** » Wed May 15, 2013 4:43 pm

Heya

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/ ... to_cri.php" target="_blank

Notably:

Miami New Times wrote:"Unfortunately, what she did falls into our code of conduct," Leah Lauderdale, a spokeswoman for the district, tells Riptide. "It's grounds for immediate expulsion."

More specifically, Wilmot's mini-explosion -- which came after she mixed "common household chemicals" in a plastic bottle -- violates Section 7.05 of the school's conduct code, Lauderdale says, which mandates expulsion for any "student in possession of a bomb (or) explosive device... while at a school (or) a school-sponsored activity... unless the material or device is being used as part of a legitimate school-related activity or science project conducted under the supervision of an instructor."

So even though Wilmot's principal acknowledges that the 16-year-old wasn't trying to hurt anyone and simply made a "bad choice," the school's rules said she had to be expelled.

Meanwhile it seems both twins will be going to Space Academy, as the funding goal was reached:
https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/kay ... cholarship" target="_blank

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 15, 2013 4:50 pm

Kasey Chang wrote:It's a "Drano Bomb"

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/bottlebomb.asp" target="_blank

for it was "The Works" and aluminum foil in two liter bottle. It got so popular around my high school that most local merchants quit carrying "The Works" for a few years. Much like they also quit carrying NO2 dispenser and canisters about they same time but for totally different reasons.

And they would have expelled you in 1998 for mailbox bombs, so I don't see them batting an eyelash for making a Mentos explosion today.

Edit:

not a Mentos. It was the real deal

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinio ... 5908.story" target="_blank

That's expulsion no question asked 1960, 70, 80, 90, 2000, 2010.

Criminal charges would depend on property damage or injury. Report said there were none. So she gets off "easy" and I historically districts I am aware of would file no charges. However in our terrorist fright society, I have no idea today.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Wed May 15, 2013 4:56 pm

Here's where we get into semantics. What is and is not considered a bomb or explosive device? I know that might sound like a silly question, but when getting expelled is on the line, it's a damn important one. There are a lot of things that cause chemical reactions that you can bottle up. How many of those can be called bombs or explosive devices? Place a can of Coke in a freezer and it's going to explode.

This is a case of zero tolerance limiting the ability to use judgement, but if you're going to use the zero tolerance rule then you have to establish that this was in fact a bomb or explosive device. What made it so? Was it the size? If she had used one hundredth of the reactants would it still have been considered one?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 15, 2013 5:00 pm

McNutt wrote:Here's where we get into semantics. What is and is not considered a bomb or explosive device? I know that might sound like a silly question, but when getting expelled is on the line, it's a damn important one. There are a lot of things that cause chemical reactions that you can bottle up. How many of those can be called bombs or explosive devices? Place a can of Coke in a freezer and it's going to explode.

This is a case of zero tolerance limiting the ability to use judgement, but if you're going to use the zero tolerance rule then you have to establish that this was in fact a bomb or explosive device. What made it so? Was it the size? If she had used one hundredth of the reactants would it still have been considered one?

We called them mailbox bombs in high school, precisely because they had enough force to shred a mailbox. They had more force than an m-80 as far as I can tell. Is a Zip Gun a gun or potato gun a gun?

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Wed May 15, 2013 5:08 pm

I haven't seen any detail on just how powerful her "bomb" was, only that it caused no damage. As far as I know she made some really small version of it. That's why I say judgement has to be used before labeling this thing a bomb and comparing it to the mailbox menaces of old.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed May 15, 2013 5:44 pm

Unagi wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:Actually, the fact that the science teacher wasn't involved doesn't bother me that much. When I was young, I did science experiments fairly regularly that had nothing to do with school (and no, that wasn't an aphorism for anything.)
I think you meant euphemism.

I knew that didn't sound right when I wrote it, but I was on four hours of sleep.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu May 16, 2013 9:46 am

Blackhawk wrote:
Unagi wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:Actually, the fact that the science teacher wasn't involved doesn't bother me that much. When I was young, I did science experiments fairly regularly that had nothing to do with school (and no, that wasn't an aphorism for anything.)
I think you meant euphemism.

I knew that didn't sound right when I wrote it, but I was on four hours of sleep.

Well, it's also true that it's not an aphorism for anything.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Thu May 16, 2013 10:15 am

McNutt wrote:I haven't seen any detail on just how powerful her "bomb" was, only that it caused no damage. As far as I know she made some really small version of it. That's why I say judgement has to be used before labeling this thing a bomb and comparing it to the mailbox menaces of old.

I think that's a very good point as well. Your statement made me think about it like this. Are there any household items that a person might accidentally mix to become "a bomb"? I do know there are household cleaners that one can, in ignorance, mix to become toxic. So does that mean we should start banning said items because of people's ignorance?

I not condoning the girls actions but neither am I condemning them. Though, from the outside and what we know, it sure sounds a bit on the suspicious side. Doesn't seem to be malicious though.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu May 16, 2013 10:24 am

I am thinking that regardless of the size of this "bomb," her decision to bring these materials to school and mix them together without her teacher's knowledge sounds more like somebody cutting up than a science experiment and my gut is telling me she just threw that term out there to save her skin. Comparing what she was doing to what Homer Hickam was doing in school is quite a stretch. What was she claiming to be researching? What was the point of her experiment? It doesn't sound like she is deserving of a scholarship at all any more than Kirk's actions in the Star Trek reboot were deserving of promotion to Captain.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu May 16, 2013 10:39 am

McNutt wrote: It doesn't sound like she is deserving of a scholarship at all any more than Kirk's actions in the Star Trek reboot were deserving of promotion to Captain.

If she is a good smart kid, as all indications says she is, why make her life hard because of one mistake. I see the bad kids and good kids at schools everyday. You know the ones that get in trouble over and over and if they don't change they will be in jail or working low income jobs the rest of their life. If a kid shows promise why try and destroy that promise because of one really stupid mistake. I didn't have the best judgement when I was teen either.

If she is as smart as they say and has promise to make something of herself then lift her up above her mistake and give her a chance to prove herself. Send her somewhere where it is ok to experiment in a controlled environment and it is encouraged. Or expel her, let her try to get into another school somewhere, maybe lose her confidence, give up and just become another statistic.

When we start arresting kids for fighting and expelling them for stuff without looking at the "gray" areas we are starting them down the path of failure in life.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu May 16, 2013 10:49 am

Well, I was arguing two things:
1. She probably didn't deserve to be expelled. She was dumb, but not a terrorist.
2. She probably doesn't deserve a scholarship for being dumb and claiming it was all a science experiment to cover up her stupidity. I understand it was to offset the injustice of #1, but she's still getting a scholarship for being dumb under the ruse that it was for science. The only smart thing she did was use the "for science" card.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu May 16, 2013 10:53 am

I was the one that spoke up against here initially, and even then I said that the response was overboard.

I'm just annoyed at the 'woe is her' media response and the rewards she's getting for making up an excuse.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:05 am

Tempest in teapot. It looks like things are turning out as they should even if I think a 10 day suspension is light. The easiest I would have given her was a one ticket to alternative education. If it is a science experiment and not condoned by the school then it shouldn't be performed at the school. We all did plenty of stupid curiosity stunts but not on school grounds and we all the knew the consequences of our actions if we did. Experimenting with mailbox bombs on school grounds is a line you don't cross without expecting to the boot if you get caught and criminal charges being brought against you if shit gets real. Shit didn't get real so she gets off light.

OTOH, if dude wants to give a vandal a scholarship for being a vandal, that's his business, not mine. As long it's not coming out of federal tax dollar, have at it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/1 ... 82568.html" target="_blank

Lassr wrote:If she is a good smart kid, as all indications says she is, why make her life hard because of one mistake.

Because that one mistake was doosey. If she still developing and isn't really in control like I'd bet most teenagers aren't, there's too much of a danger to others with that sort of decision making. And that sort of decision making needs to be discouraged or at least discouraged from happening on school grounds. When a good kid brings a .22 to school what do you do?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:13 am

LordMortis wrote:When a good kid brings a .22 to school what do you do?

If it is hunting season and he tells me he forgot to take it out of his trunk after a weekend hunting trip I tell him I didn't hear a thing but I think he sounds like he is developing a bad cough so should probably go home for the day.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:20 am

Good kids used to always forget that they had pocket knives in their backpacks from the weekend or, as Remus pointed out, some gear from weekend hunting trips that would get you arrested and on no-flight lists nowadays. Sometimes judgement is a good tool when dealing with these situations.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:21 am

Remus West wrote:
LordMortis wrote:When a good kid brings a .22 to school what do you do?
If it is hunting season and he tells me he forgot to take it out of his trunk after a weekend hunting trip I tell him I didn't hear a thing but I think he sounds like he is developing a bad cough so should probably go home for the day.

oh I remember when I was in school every kid had his shotgun on a gun rack in his truck during hunting season. Teachers would go out and look at the gun if it was new. Ah, the good ol' days.

Now days, I remember a few years back a kid got suspended at my old school for having a butter knife in his car. He ate toast on the way to school and used the knife to put butter on his toast as he was walking to his car that morning. Threw the knife in the seat and a teacher saw it at school. A pencil is more dangerous than a butter knife. Ridiculous.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:23 am

McNutt wrote:Good kids used to always forget that they had pocket knives in their backpacks from the weekend or, as Remus pointed out, some gear from weekend hunting trips that would get you arrested and on no-flight lists nowadays. Sometimes judgement is a good tool when dealing with these situations.

Absolutely. That has been my argument for years but schools treat everything black and white these days. No common sense is used or taught in schools anymore.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 16, 2013 11:30 am

McNutt wrote:Sometimes judgement is a good tool when dealing with these situations.

Judgement is always a good tool. Stupid kids don't deserve to go to jail for being stupid kids but when they are behaving dangerously in schools, in my judgement, they should be removed from that situation a put in a more controlled environment. Go ahead and encourage their curiosity somewhere else.

And I am all for a more open curriculum where science and engineering encourage this sort of stuff in an open yet controlled environment. I'd love to see children being more hands on in a sanctioned situation. But when they are in school the school should not make it OK to be a danger to themselves and to others.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu May 16, 2013 12:10 pm

As the saying goes...

If it dies, that's biology
If it doesn't work, that's physics
If it blows up, that's chemistry.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu May 16, 2013 12:26 pm

Lassr wrote:
McNutt wrote:Good kids used to always forget that they had pocket knives in their backpacks from the weekend or, as Remus pointed out, some gear from weekend hunting trips that would get you arrested and on no-flight lists nowadays. Sometimes judgement is a good tool when dealing with these situations.
Absolutely. That has been my argument for years but schools treat everything black and white these days. No common sense is used or taught in schools anymore.

Do not blame the school. Blame Mr. and Mrs. "I'm suing you for multiple millions because you allowed someone to bring a weapon to school and my child now feels unsafe in his learning environment". Every one of the zero tolerance rules can be traced to the fear of litigation, imo.