Lockdown mania

[Carpet_pissr]

Not posting this in R&P because we already have plenty of pro-/anti- gun threads there - this is not that thread, and hopefully we won't veer in that direction. Merely interested in commentary on this interesting article about lockdown drills now common in schools, and their effects on children.

Here's a quote:

"We routinely terrify and traumatize them in an effort to spare our kids terror and trauma."

And the article in full: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _kids.html" target="_blank

The first thing that struck me was that the author mentioned the Cold War, nuclear "under the desk" drills in a list of drills for other disasters, but didn't expound on that. I think you could almost substitute "nuclear attack drill" everywhere you read "shooter drill" or "lockdown drill" and it would also be relevant.

I only mention that because the answer to her question might actually be found in studying the effects (if possible) of those silly, yet terrifying drills where we hid under the desks in case of nuclear attack.

[Smoove_B]

This is where she goes off the rails:

So in the absence of a public policy solution, or any kind of collective will to find a public policy solution, we just make a decision to treat armed killers in schools as we previously treated fires and tornadoes: as acts of God instead of failures of legislative and moral courage. There will be more and more shootings near schools and more and more lockdowns.

There's no way this isn't an R&P discussion because (I think) this is a think veiled attempt at suggesting we somehow wave a magic wand and make all guns everywhere disappear at once as not to ever need to worry about the need to drill (and test) plans put in to place because they exist.

I find the idea of safety drills being somehow "traumatizing" to children highly dubious. Perhaps if you hire actors to storm the school and act out some type of real-life simulation, sure. But to practice following the teacher's instructions in the event of fire/earthquake/active shooter/tornado? There's nothing wrong with fostering a "be prepared" mentality.

[Holman]

My kids (second and fourth graders) have had a couple of lockdown drills, and I participated in a few when I was teaching high school. They're no more traumatic than a tornado drill or a fire drill.

It's true that a shooter on campus would be much more traumatic than a fire or even a tornado, but that doesn't mean the *drill* is.

[msduncan]

Being prepared is smart. I don't really have a problem with the drills.

[LawBeefaroni]

Duck and cover drills seem to me to be mostly propaganda. There wasn't much proven science or survival behind them. They were supposed to make kids feel that they could do something to survive a nuclear attack. I guess they also kept the threat of the Red Menace at the fore too. More propaganda.

Lockdown drills have at least some real-world utility behind them. So long as it's just kids and staff learning where to go and what to do in the event of a lockdown. However, when it's full SWAT teams and Op-For acting out a terrorist attack or "active shooter" scenarios it's too much IMO.

The article seems to be mostly about hair-trigger protocols and false-alert lockdowns though, not so much about drills specifically.

[Kraken]

The first thing that struck me was that the author mentioned the Cold War, nuclear "under the desk" drills in a list of drills for other disasters, but didn't expound on that. I think you could almost substitute "nuclear attack drill" everywhere you read "shooter drill" or "lockdown drill" and it would also be relevant.

I only mention that because the answer to her question might actually be found in studying the effects (if possible) of those silly, yet terrifying drills where we hid under the desks in case of nuclear attack.

I remember those, as well as tornado drills. They used the same warning sirens and the procedure was basically the same. I also remember an elementary school field trip to the gypsum mines that had been refitted as fallout shelters, as if that was supposed to be reassuring.

I grew up expecting nuclear holocaust at any minute. I learned which was was north because that's where the missile contrails would be. I didn't expect to grow up, much less get old, so I never planned for either contingency. What was the point?

The world is a scary and dangerous place. Lockdown drills share that much with duck & cover drills. But since our drills were about preparing for mass destruction (tornadoes) or the end of the world (nuclear war), I don't think that the smaller, more personal threat of rampaging gunmen is a good comparison, other than maybe teaching immediate and unquestioning obedience to authority.

[msduncan]

The first thing that struck me was that the author mentioned the Cold War, nuclear "under the desk" drills in a list of drills for other disasters, but didn't expound on that. I think you could almost substitute "nuclear attack drill" everywhere you read "shooter drill" or "lockdown drill" and it would also be relevant.

I only mention that because the answer to her question might actually be found in studying the effects (if possible) of those silly, yet terrifying drills where we hid under the desks in case of nuclear attack.

I remember those, as well as tornado drills. They used the same warning sirens and the procedure was basically the same. I also remember an elementary school field trip to the gypsum mines that had been refitted as fallout shelters, as if that was supposed to be reassuring.

I grew up expecting nuclear holocaust at any minute. I learned which was was north because that's where the missile contrails would be. I didn't expect to grow up, much less get old, so I never planned for either contingency. What was the point?

The world is a scary and dangerous place. Lockdown drills share that much with duck & cover drills. But since our drills were about preparing for mass destruction (tornadoes) or the end of the world (nuclear war), I don't think that the smaller, more personal threat of rampaging gunmen is a good comparison, other than maybe teaching immediate and unquestioning obedience to authority.

At least all of that gave us fuel for deep space exploration. Now what are we gonna do?

[Arcanis]

I'm with LawBeef here, the drill isn't the problem the excessive use of lockdowns is. Every week there is a lockdown around here, normally because of some crime within a few miles of a school. The radius is so large that just about any crime committed during school hours causes at least one school to go in lockdown.

[Carpet_pissr]

Every week there is a lockdown around here, normally because of some crime within a few miles of a school. The radius is so large that just about any crime committed during school hours causes at least one school to go in lockdown.

Same here. Out of control, IMO.

[Scuzz]

My kids (second and fourth graders) have had a couple of lockdown drills, and I participated in a few when I was teaching high school. They're no more traumatic than a tornado drill or a fire drill.

It's true that a shooter on campus would be much more traumatic than a fire or even a tornado, but that doesn't mean the *drill* is.

That was my thought. Lockdown drills are probably viewed by most kids as the same thing as a fire drill. And probably the more often you have them the less traumatic.

[Carpet_pissr]

This is where she goes off the rails:

So in the absence of a public policy solution, or any kind of collective will to find a public policy solution, we just make a decision to treat armed killers in schools as we previously treated fires and tornadoes: as acts of God instead of failures of legislative and moral courage. There will be more and more shootings near schools and more and more lockdowns.

There's no way this isn't an R&P discussion because (I think) this is a think veiled attempt at suggesting we somehow wave a magic wand and make all guns everywhere disappear at once as not to ever need to worry about the need to drill (and test) plans put in to place because they exist.

While I have strong opinions about gun control, I didn't get this impression at all. But even if my blinders for that bias are on, I still think we can discuss the topic without venturing into that quagmire (hopefully).

Already read some nicely reasoned responses (and civil/non-partisan!).

[EvilHomer3k]

We did an active shooter drill at the college I work at. The local pd, sheriff's swat team, ambulance, and emergency management from the county were involved. One of the swat guys played the shooter and they got some theatre kids to play victims. It was fairly convincing. Note that this isn't an elementary.

We learned some things about barricading, where to hide, what to do, etcetera. I think they could have done some things better with the drill to make it better but it was helpful for the people who participated. I lived but my boss died. Afterwards we looked (as individuals) at different places we could go that would be safer and better ways to barricade our door. Overall, it was a useful thing and interesting to have done.

We have never gone on lock down here that I know of. I've been hear nearly 10 years. We have done numerous fire and tornado drills as well.

My kids (elementary school) have never done an active shooter drill and I think every school should do them once per year.

If anyone is interested, Alex Haddox does an excellent podcast on practical self defense called, "Practical Defense." He did an episode on active shooters that I think is quite good.
http://www.palladium-education.com/prac ... nse3.shtml" target="_blank

He also had done shows on keeping kids safe, password protection, travel, etcetera. The podcast has been around for a while and is a wonderful resource for anyone intersted in basic self defense.

[Carpet_pissr]

Excellent! Thanks

[LordMortis]

I find the idea of safety drills being somehow "traumatizing" to children highly dubious. Perhaps if you hire actors to storm the school and act out some type of real-life simulation, sure. But to practice following the teacher's instructions in the event of fire/earthquake/active shooter/tornado? There's nothing wrong with fostering a "be prepared" mentality.

The get under your desk put your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodby and protect your neck drills weren't traumatizing but I remember it being the first time I knew I had no flexibility because sitting like that for ten minutes hurt my neck and back pretty bad.

The bus safety movies they showed us when growing up were pretty fucked up, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmyizLWUxtM" target="_blank

[killbot737]

I only remember tornado drills. "Everyone go into the hall and sit there. No talking or laughing! Sit on that cold tile floor and die quietly! Talking and laughing attracts tornados!"

This is how it was when the nuns ordered us to our slightly less-probable doom.

[Kraken]

The bus safety movies they showed us when growing up were pretty fucked up, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmyizLWUxtM" target="_blank

I imagine schoolkids nowadays sit silently staring at their screens.

[killbot737]

The bus safety movies they showed us when growing up were pretty fucked up, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmyizLWUxtM" target="_blank

I imagine schoolkids nowadays sit silently staring at their screens.

I didn't ride the bus to school but on the bus trips I did take all it took was a hard brake check from the driver to get your ass to sit the fuck down. You could see it in their eyes: "I'm going home tonight, I've got permission slips to deal with you."

[Isgrimnur]

NBC News

An Indiana teachers union is demanding change to active shooter drill protocols after teachers at an elementary school reported that they had been injured when they were shot by Airsoft guns during a recent exercise.

"During active shooter drill, four teachers at a time were taken into a room, told to crouch down and were shot execution style with some sort of projectiles — resulting in injuries to the extent that welts appeared, and blood was drawn," a statement from the Indiana State Teachers Association on Wednesday said.

Association members said they were injured during the drill at Monticello’s Meadowlawn Elementary School, according to the statement.

The drill was conducted by the White County Sheriff's Department, which defended the methods it used. White County Sheriff Bill Brooks said participation was voluntary, and teachers were shown beforehand what the drill would entail.

"The training was meant to be realistic — to show what happens if you don't act," he said.

[$iljanus]

NBC News

An Indiana teachers union is demanding change to active shooter drill protocols after teachers at an elementary school reported that they had been injured when they were shot by Airsoft guns during a recent exercise.

"During active shooter drill, four teachers at a time were taken into a room, told to crouch down and were shot execution style with some sort of projectiles — resulting in injuries to the extent that welts appeared, and blood was drawn," a statement from the Indiana State Teachers Association on Wednesday said.

Association members said they were injured during the drill at Monticello’s Meadowlawn Elementary School, according to the statement.

The drill was conducted by the White County Sheriff's Department, which defended the methods it used. White County Sheriff Bill Brooks said participation was voluntary, and teachers were shown beforehand what the drill would entail.

"The training was meant to be realistic — to show what happens if you don't act," he said.

I think one can get the point across in an active shooter drill without resorting to mock executions. Methinks the sheriff in charge has a bit of a power trip issue. Also if the teachers were really told beforehand about being, well, shot at what the fuck were they thinking when they volunteered for that?