Are you on track for retirement?

[rittchard]

I'm curious of what percentage of people would retire if they had as much money as they needed?
So many people need the work emotionally or because they get bored.

A good question, and one I've been spending a lot of energy on. We're doing ok and are on track to be able to potentially 'retire' early, for some definition of retire. Especially when talking early retirement, my idea of that is not sitting at home doing nothing but rather being able to work however and wherever, without that job needing to be an attempt to max out compensation.

What that would look like is a tougher question than I had thought it'd be.

In any event, we first need to see wherever civilization is on track to hold up...

I've been debating this for the past couple of years now too (I'll be 52 next month). The thing that constantly makes me go back and forth is health. Most retirement plans are looking into the 90-100 survival range, I think with my health issues I'm probably more in the 80s range. The question is if you stay in a stressful job you don't like (or even one you do), will you inadvertently be shortening your lifespan with bad food choices, less exercise, etc. If I retire early and spend more time taking better care of myself (and not being stressed all the time), will I then end up living longer than I anticipated and run out of money? Or on the other side, if I keep working myself to death in 10 years, won't I feel like an idiot I didn't retire earlier when I could have? I go through iterations of this almost daily.

There are a lot of other considerations still holding me back from taking the plunge, mostly due to family and my partner and other external factors. But when I isolate it to myself, it's almost a no-brainer.

[Kurth]

My wife and I are 46, and we’d be in an ok position to contemplate a reasonable retirement, and . . .



With 3 of them (Junior, sophomore and 7th grade) all expected to go to college over the next several years, that’s our biggest wild card. No idea what college is going to cost in the near future with all the disruptions due to COVID-19 and potentially changing policies concerning higher education and loans. Our kids have done pretty well and will likely qualify for some merit-based scholarships, but we’ll likely be getting nothing in terms of need-based aid.

So, we could be in good shape for retirement, or not. Looking on the bright side, at least we both have careers we like these days and are excited about continuing, so when we’re 80+ and hobbling around the office with our canes, hopefully we’ll be doing so with smiles on our faces.

[infinitelurker]

My wife and I are both 48, and have been saving hard for the past 15 years with the goal of early retirement.

I've been tracking our annual spending closely for the last decade, and by living well within our means, we reached our initial goal of 25x annual spending about 5 years ago. This was when the eye-opening realization of "it's not enough" happened to me, so we kept on saving. We hit the next milestone, the next, and then another, but we're still keeping on. We don't hate our jobs and, especially now with the pandemic, it's not like we can travel anywhere, so why not keep going? Health insurance is my biggest concern going forward, but second only to that is if I will ever actually be able to walk away from work. I'll have to figure out a way to convince myself one day, because no matter how much time I spend with https://firecalc.com/ or http://www.cfiresim.com/ or similar calculators, it just doesn't work on me.

[LawBeefaroni]

Work just announced a 3% automatic contribution. Like if you don't contribute they still put 3% into the 401k/403b. They'll match up to an additional 6% if you do contribute. Much better than the old 3% match.

Supposedly I'm on track but fuck that. I don't have a government pension and healthcare so no such thing as on track.

[hentzau]

I'm 56, and am sitting at about 9X my annual right now. That's in my current 401(k), and not including my pension. I was contemplating an early retirement this year when they were talking massive layoffs, but I missed the axe (this year.) I'd like to hang on for about 5 more years, until I can get my last couple of kids through college.

But man, work is really getting to be a challenge. I know that I don't have the passion for it that I used to (he says, typing this at 2:18 in the morning as he sits on a very long change waiting for his turn to do his work.)

[LordMortis]

My wife and I are both 48, and have been saving hard for the past 15 years with the goal of early retirement.

I've been tracking our annual spending closely for the last decade, and by living well within our means, we reached our initial goal of 25x annual spending about 5 years ago. This was when the eye-opening realization of "it's not enough" happened to me, so we kept on saving.

Don't say that. My goal has been 22x and I don't think I can make in the work force long enough to get there. My projection is about four more years but I'm exhausted now, so I'm trying to figure out if I how to both tighten the belt and still allow for things like the need for a car or a roof.

Supposedly I'm on track but fuck that. I don't have a government pension and healthcare so no such thing as on track.

This. All I'll have is what I've put away plus whatever golden years give backs the federal government is giving when I reach those benchmarks.

My combined retirement and personal accounts currently sit at about 8x my annual wage but even considering healthcare, as long as the ACA remains in tact, I don't need but half my annual wage to keep on keep on. So I continue to tuck everything away.

[rittchard]

@infinitelurker, just curious what do you think would make you feel like "it's enough" - sounds like you are doing pretty good to me. I've found all the calculators and planners are what you make of them. If you sub-consciously don't want things to look good, it's likely never going to as you can almost always find some scenario that will ruin it (and of course the reverse is probably true too). Now if you are still enjoying your job, maybe it's just not something you really want at the moment?

- - -

Oh, also for all of the number geeks, I'm using this:

https://www.flexibleretirementplanner.com/wp/

It looks a little complicated at first but it's actually pretty easy to use. I really like it as it allows a lot of flexibility and customization for different scenarios. You can start out super simple and then gradually add in more as you figure things out. I was even able to simulate doing an SEPP from my 401K (not natively supported by the program) after a little trial and error. I don't pretend to understand all the details, but the developer is pretty responsive if you have any questions on how something works or limitations of the program.

[dbt1949]

Nobody is forcing anyone to retire. If you don't want to retire, don't. Businesses may force you out of your job but you can always find something if you want to.

[LawBeefaroni]

Nobody is forcing anyone to retire. If you don't want to retire, don't. Businesses may force you out of your job but you can always find something if you want to.

I hear Jeff V has a connection.

[infinitelurker]

@infinitelurker, just curious what do you think would make you feel like "it's enough" - sounds like you are doing pretty good to me. I've found all the calculators and planners are what you make of them. If you sub-consciously don't want things to look good, it's likely never going to as you can almost always find some scenario that will ruin it (and of course the reverse is probably true too). Now if you are still enjoying your job, maybe it's just not something you really want at the moment?

I don’t really know how to answer the question of what would make me feel like “it’s enough”. I used to think it was that first goal of 25x annual spend, but then I got cold feet. I think my issue is related to why whenever I play a game that has an inventory limit I end up spending more time trying to decide on what to get rid of than actually playing, because “you never know when it may be needed”. At 25x and 30x part of my excuse was our relatively young age, and the number of potential years of retirement, fear of running out, etc. Of course, the closer we get to being able to take social security (assuming it’s still available) helps things out, but by all accounts we are ready. All the calculators constantly give me 100% success rates, but I still find myself saying “what if” and I need to just tell myself that if things get bad enough, we contract our spending a bit (I’ve been planning on the VPW method)

[Zaxxon]

@infinitelurker, just curious what do you think would make you feel like "it's enough" - sounds like you are doing pretty good to me. I've found all the calculators and planners are what you make of them. If you sub-consciously don't want things to look good, it's likely never going to as you can almost always find some scenario that will ruin it (and of course the reverse is probably true too). Now if you are still enjoying your job, maybe it's just not something you really want at the moment?

I don’t really know how to answer the question of what would make me feel like “it’s enough”. I used to think it was that first goal of 25x annual spend, but then I got cold feet. I think my issue is related to why whenever I play a game that has an inventory limit I end up spending more time trying to decide on what to get rid of than actually playing, because “you never know when it may be needed”. At 25x and 30x part of my excuse was our relatively young age, and the number of potential years of retirement, fear of running out, etc. Of course, the closer we get to being able to take social security (assuming it’s still available) helps things out, but by all accounts we are ready. All the calculators constantly give me 100% success rates, but I still find myself saying “what if” and I need to just tell myself that if things get bad enough, we contract our spending a bit (I’ve been planning on the VPW method)

I struggle with that a bit, as well, and one thing that's helped me mentally is the idea of easing into it. What if you keep working, but half-time? Then for some initial period of years, you are drawing down at a much lower rate than you otherwise would be (in fact, depending on how much you've been stashing away as a %age of your income, you may not start drawing down at all).

[soulbringer]

I hit 50 next year and should have enough saved to put me semi retired at 55. By semi retired I mean working maybe 6 months of the year 3 12s as a RN instead of the full year. Im probably going to just suck it up and go full time through 57 and retire completely at 58 and just work part time/prn. My wife will have her full pension from state government then and with that and prn work, it should be plenty. It really depends on the economy and the stock market however.

[Sudy]

Are you on track for retirement?

Only in the sense of being a replicant on the run.

[Jeff V]

So seems wife's plan is a little more advance than I thought. She bought into a new condo complex going up in Manila; the building will manage it as an AirBnB rental until we are ready to occupy. She sort of gave me an ultimatum, job by June or we're selling everything and moving overseas. Presumably, any proceeds would go towards establishing her chicken farm project in the provinces. Kids would get a private teacher unless there's a viable private school nearby. The condo is more geared towards couples, although there are children amenities in the complex. It seems to be only one bedroom, and I think her original thought was post-children.

[Isgrimnur]

[Jeff V]

I even applied at McDonald's today.

Spoiler:

For an IT Incident Manager position, not a burger-flipper.

[Madmarcus]

Realistically I retired in 2018 when I moved to Korea to take my current job. At that point our youngest was in college and we had 33x our salaries in various accounts (note - 33 times your salary is cheaper when you are a single earner household with that earner teaching in the public school system). BTW, that number (33x) is oddly hard to admit even in the anonymity of OO. Pre-Corona I had plans for 2022 as the stop teaching date. With Corona and a possible part time job with the school for my wife I will likely stay until at least 2023. Maybe it is one-more-year syndrome.

The odd part is that I'm convinced that my expenses will go up post actual retirement. One of my favorite hobbies right now is planning DIY projects (some reasonable, some a little less practical). I generally haven't followed through on many of them partially because I had too many things between kids, work, and less active hobbies (computer games, reading, and the like). If I start actually doing these things it's going to cost money in supplies and tools! Yes, I am a cheap bastard who has a hard time spending money - how do you think I ended up with 33x my salary?*

* it also helps to start really early and generally get lucky

[coopasonic]

* it also helps to start really early and generally get lucky

I hate to imagine where I might be if I actually started when my career started. I basically saved nothing before I was 30, meaning I completely missed the first internet boom from an investment perspective. That's not 100% true as I do have a retirement account from a job I had back in 95-97, but I have not seen a statement for it in more than 20 years and don't have credentials to fix that. One day I am going to need to remedy that situation. It was a few grand back then. I have no idea what kind of fund it was invested in and I can't imagine it has somehow turned into a consequential amount.

[Skinypupy]

* it also helps to start really early and generally get lucky

Very true. I came out of my first 10 year career in the negative. The owner kept the business going. He's now 57, and has lost nearly everything on it.
If I hadn't made that switch, I can only imagine the financial hole I'd be in right now.

I mostly lucked into my current job, and have had a remarkable run of fortunate circumstances that have allowed me to make up ground from a slow start. I doubt I'll ever get up to 33X, but I'm in decent enough shape.

Of course, that can all change on a dime with a couple spots of bad luck.

[Madmarcus]

Of course, that can all change on a dime with a couple spots of bad luck.

So very true.

[dbt1949]

The wife and I only have social security and Medicare and Medicaid for her and the VA for me.
The house is paid for. Stupidly I ran up the credit cards to a monstrous level.
But except for CC debt we're doing all right and believe the best thing that could have happened to us was retiring.
I never liked work, and this is the life for me. I do indeed recommend it.
I do not however recommend getting olde.

[Kraken]

I never liked work, and this is the life for me. I do indeed recommend it.
I do not however recommend getting olde.

I like my work, at least for 2-3 hours a day. I get cranky when I have to work 4+, although I've grown rather fond of money now that I have some. As I said earlier, I'll keep working a few hours a day for as long as my body and mind will let me. I already get to control what hours I work, and when I "retire" I'll be able to cut the most tedious jobs loose.

When I have a series of days with no work, as will happen for 5 days next week, IDK what to do with myself. I'm adrift in time. Maybe I'll try to get back into gaming. I haven't played anything in months, and feel zero urge.

[rittchard]

Retiring has been on my mind a lot again the past week... My best friend's sister died suddenly of a heart condition, I didn't know her but it was kind of a jolt. Then there's Covid, my sister's family all tested positive (they are all fine now thankfully) recently which was a bit of a scare. But the main thing is I had my second vaccine shot and I suppose in theory I should be heading back to the office. The thought of returning to the original grind is weighing on me a lot. I don't love working at home that much either, but I absolutely abhor sitting in the office doing a "job" which I don't really enjoy, particularly when a lot of it ends up being just sitting around waiting for something to happen.

My plan at the moment is to try to ride the rest of this year out and see how it goes. If I'm still feeling this negative about it by the end of the year, I may finally bite the bullet and "retire" starting around next year.

[Jeff V]

I suppose in the ideal situation I'd have a Kraken schedule, working from home a few hours per day, enough so my wife could quit her second job. She would very much like it if I could retire, but I'm too young to get any sort of benefit out of it. If we can keep it together until I can start drawing social security, then the question becomes "is it enough to survive in the Philippines?" While neither of us would be actively working if we did so (nursing pays so little there it's hardly worth getting out of bed), I suppose there's always a chance that the chicken farm she's started up will produce some positive income by then. The main problem with her plan, however, is the kids -- they will still be in school, and removing them from here and thrusting them into an environment not known for it's production of Rhodes Scholars would be problematic. Maintaining homesteads here and in the Philippines is not conducive to early retirement in any way shape or form.

The calculator on my 401(k) website predicts I could realize 106% of my previous annual income if I forestall retirement until age 86. Sounds about right.

[Skinypupy]

I like my work, at least for 2-3 hours a day. I get cranky when I have to work 4+

Can we trade? I don't remember the last time I worked less than 50 hours/week.

[Kraken]

I like my work, at least for 2-3 hours a day. I get cranky when I have to work 4+

Can we trade? I don't remember the last time I worked less than 50 hours/week.

No, I just came off a seven-week stretch of seven-day weeks. They were only 6-7 hour days, but there were way too many of them. I'm looking forward to my first real weekend since the end of February.

[Madmarcus]

It's the end of the school year which leads me to reflect on things. Even in the six months since I posted in this thread my wife has been talking more about FIRE. Plus her part time job at the school became mired in bureaucracy and has turned into a short term part time job. Both of which mean that 2022 is suddenly looking at lot more likely especially if the fall doesn't bring easier travel.

[Kraken]

We *could* retire as soon as we're both eligible for Medicare a year from now. But Wife has two strong incentives to reach her 10-year anniversary with her employer -- a pension, and employer-paid Medigap insurance, which amounts to free health care, for both of us for life. In the three years it will take to hit that mark, we have some other big financial maneuvers (mostly around housing) to address.

[YellowKing]

I'm currently at < $100/mo projected shortfall which isn't bad. Once we get over the house purchase hump and settle down a bit financially, I plan on bumping up my contribution to make up for it. We currently have no debt other than the mortgage, so I should be able to pack away quite a bit over the next 20 years assuming my job status stays stable.

My wife is in pretty good shape - she's employed by the state and has no real plans to leave, so she gets full pension.

[LordMortis]

Medical, medical, medical. My 401k's WAG says I could retire now but I think its math is broken for anyone who plugs in numbers to retire under 65 (and possibly 67 1/2) and it sure as heck does not include paying for health insurance out of pocket or understand that how to account for underlying conditions.

I would be styling if I had the oomph to work until 65 but I'm trying to determine if I have the endurance to work until 55 much less 65 55 is about where I should retire if I want a relatively financial well off retirement, I think. I'm likely to do with less and try to get out earlier though. I'm just not sure where. I'm approaching the point where it's time to get a financial advisor who can actually plot these things out for me. It's hard to find the time, energy, and commitment even for that, though. So I just keep on ferreting away cash with my eyes on the prize.

[Carpet_pissr]

I find myself in an odd (I guess) position of wanting to pull money out of my retirement accounts early. I'm not talking about a couple thousand dollars like people do from time to time (including myself), I mean a big chunk that will give us some additional options that we don't have, for a few years into the future.

I guess I put in a lot when I was younger (and I did start contributing to an IRA w/match when I was hired right out of college, so it's been...brewing for a while now). I also took over managing my own retirement funds right after the internet crash (had been using American Express advisor up until that point, and he had me wayyyyy overweight in all the hot web stocks of the day (most of which are no longer in existence ) Most of my retirement money was wiped out in one fell swoop (was that 2000?), and when I basically started over, under my own management, I guess I cranked the savings up to 11 to make up for the previous years' lost time and $$.

So that's the good news, and I have been very fortunate to get far better annualized returns compared to the broad market, but the kicker is that right now is supposed to be one's highest earning years (I'm 48). And for me, these past few have been the lowest earning years since I started working full time. For the past couple to three years, I've been pulling in 8-10% of what I was making only a few years prior. Somehow, I still have the house that I bought based on my previous life's income, and a retirement portfolio based in that same previous career. I pulled maybe $12-15K out of the retirement accounts when things got tight a couple years ago, but have not touched it since.

So now I find myself wanting to pull some real money from the IRA because I have way more than we should need, just "locked up" in that account (yes, I am fully aware that that is the whole point). Last year was my chance to do that, since they waived the early withdrawal penalty in 2020, but the penalty was reinstated starting with 2021. It's not sensible (unless you REALLY need it, like emergency money), to take a 10% penalty, especially on larger sums. But without the 10% penalty? Abso-damn-lutely. You pay the tax, and as long as you understand the opportunity cost involved, it makes sense to have and use that money now, when we arguably need it more than we (probably) will in 20 years.

[Lassr]

I was on my way to retiring around 62 as a 401k millionaire but with the divorce, my wife got 50% of the 401k, She didn't want any of my pension so now 66 may be my target. I obviously do not need as much money to retire when I'm single but who knows what the future holds.

[Madmarcus]

Medical, medical, medical. My 401k's WAG says I could retire now but I think its math is broken for anyone who plugs in numbers to retire under 65 (and possibly 67 1/2) and it sure as heck does not include paying for health insurance out of pocket or understand that how to account for underlying conditions.

I'm in such a weird place with medical. Currently I'm paying a really painful COBRA amount so that I will be able to have the teacher retirement healthcare when I hit 60. So 5 more years of eating big monthly costs to get low rates after that. Sometimes I think I should simply go the ACA route until Medicare instead but the math says that I can afford the 5 more painful years

[Kraken]

Medical, medical, medical. My 401k's WAG says I could retire now but I think its math is broken for anyone who plugs in numbers to retire under 65 (and possibly 67 1/2) and it sure as heck does not include paying for health insurance out of pocket or understand that how to account for underlying conditions.

I'm in such a weird place with medical. Currently I'm paying a really painful COBRA amount so that I will be able to have the teacher retirement healthcare when I hit 60. So 5 more years of eating big monthly costs to get low rates after that. Sometimes I think I should simply go the ACA route until Medicare instead but the math says that I can afford the 5 more painful years

Doesn't COBRA expire after 18 months?

[Madmarcus]

Normally yes. I'm not really using COBRA but a law in Georgia that states anyone who has taught for 10 years may continue to pay for health insurance similar to COBRA until they could officially retire. Thus I "resigned" a couple of years ago to take the job in Korea but will officially "retire" and start drawing my pension and retiree health care at ago 60.

[LordMortis]

Medical, medical, medical. My 401k's WAG says I could retire now but I think its math is broken for anyone who plugs in numbers to retire under 65 (and possibly 67 1/2) and it sure as heck does not include paying for health insurance out of pocket or understand that how to account for underlying conditions.

I'm in such a weird place with medical. Currently I'm paying a really painful COBRA amount so that I will be able to have the teacher retirement healthcare when I hit 60. So 5 more years of eating big monthly costs to get low rates after that. Sometimes I think I should simply go the ACA route until Medicare instead but the math says that I can afford the 5 more painful years

Wow. ACA isn't cheap as far as I can tell. COBRA's got to be insane. How did you determine you ACA eligibility? These are resources I need to start to learning about as the numbers start to support the idea of feasibility. I think about where I need to be all of the time but it's always been so a far away that I have always been just saving and worrying about the actual plan later. That time is close enough to start mapping/finding resources now.

[Jeff V]

ACA is a lot cheaper than most COBRA. If your employer was paying 50% of your healthcare cost, COBRA would be twice what you paid, employed. There are a range of options on the ACA, but we were looking at about half what COBRA would have cost when my wife got a much better plan at one of her jobs.

[Torfish]

I've only worked for large corporate companies in my career. Since we started having kids, I've been the sole moneymaker in the household. We have four kids. Always have put money in 401K. Not maxed out, because I needed every penny to keep the family afloat.

Now, I have three kids in college and one in middle school. I recently announced to my wife that I'm retiring at 60 (still a ways off). Only a major life change will disrupt my plan. I love my job very much, but I need a change. The corporate grind is what I want to get out of.

We have about 7X of what I make annually in retirement. Living conservatively and staying out of debt (except for the mortgage) is the only reason there's any at all. I'm thankful to my wife and kids of not wanting shiny new things. The funds are in 401K, two small roths, and some play stocks. I'm about ready to pull the trigger to find a finance advisor. I'm not educated enough to know what is good/bad and how to manage the money correctly. It's a blackhole to me.

This thread has definitely given me a boost to get the planning started.

[dfs]

I recently announced to my wife that I'm retiring at 60 (still a ways off). Only a major life change will disrupt my plan. I love my job very much, but I need a change. The corporate grind is what I want to get out of.

As mentioned upstream and I'm sure you know, learn your local healthcare market. Lots of folks (raises own hand and looks around to see others in the same boat) could retire except for health care. I'm a bit shy of your 60's target and in my case spousal health care is the reason I'm still working. Now I have arranged my career that I don't consider the time I spend working to be a burden or hateful, but that's me.

[LordMortis]

I'm about ready to pull the trigger to find a finance advisor. I'm not educated enough to know what is good/bad and how to manage the money correctly. It's a blackhole to me.

This is me. I'm so deep in to I don't know what I don't know territory, it's not good. I do know that I'll need health care. After that... ????