Malaysian Airlines plane crash

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:01 am

Detecting the ping just means you're in the same "county". You need it down the same HOUSE or at least the SAME BLOCK before you can deploy robots and/or submersibles.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:47 am

Hopefully people realize that, should they locate the wreck, any recovery efforts will likely be limited to the black box.

Crabbs · Post by **Crabbs** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:26 am

Kasey Chang wrote:Detecting the ping just means you're in the same "county". You need it down the same HOUSE or at least the SAME BLOCK before you can deploy robots and/or submersibles.

I read last night that the Ping locator basically gives a 5 mile radius in which it can pick up signals. The more often they pick up the signal, the better they should be able to triangulate and continually shrink the search area. There are now 3 sets of data (2 from Sat/Sun and 1 from last night) so they should be able to start homing in even closer now.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:55 am

Does the high tech equipment on our military submarines have the ability to locate a devise that's pinging to be found?

Putin would probably love to announce that their navy has located the downed aircraft, while the world scanned for debris.

I'm guessing the areas involved made that a waste of our navy's time. ?

Crabbs · Post by **Crabbs** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:05 am

Unagi wrote:Does the high tech equipment on our military submarines have the ability to locate a devise that's pinging to be found?

Putin would probably love to announce that their navy has located the downed aircraft, while the world scanned for debris.

I'm guessing the areas involved made that a waste of our navy's time. ?

The problem is the SIZE of the area being scanned. The REDUCED search area (after radar/speed/fuel calculations) is the size of South Carolina (aka 32K Sq miles....) just think how long it takes to traverse that area at the fastest speed of a ship/sub... vs the slow speed needed to actually listen for signals.

I think a lot of people forget how freaking HUGE our oceans are. No fast way to get anywhere.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:16 am

Unagi wrote:Does the high tech equipment on our military submarines have the ability to locate a devise that's pinging to be found?

Putin would probably love to announce that their navy has located the downed aircraft, while the world scanned for debris.

I'm guessing the areas involved made that a waste of our navy's time. ?

They do but it is never a good idea to have submarines operate in an area where lots of people are towing equipment around. They are also extremely expensive to operate. If they were going to use one to search an area they would probably have it searching an area no other assets are searching. They work best alone.

DD* · Post by DD* » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:16 pm

Interesting graphic showing just how deep it is...

that's Jack Handy deep!

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:39 pm

DD* wrote:Interesting graphic showing just how deep it is...

that's Jack Handy deep!

Great graphic.

One nit:

14,763 feet - The maximum dive depth of Alvin, the first deep-sea submersible capable of carrying passengers.

While they may techincally be correct with the use of the term "submersible", the Trieste took two passengers down to 35,797 feet and returned them to the surface. In 1960...4 years before DSV Alvin.

Not that a bathyscaphe could recover a black box (it did photograph the Thresher though, so maybe)but let's give a little credit where it's due.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:44 pm

Kraken wrote:The depth of the problem is a cool graphic showing you, to scale, how far down the supposed beacon really is.

Great graphic

LawBeefaroni wrote:Great graphic.
...but let's give a little credit where it's due.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:44 am

It's getting close to the end of the search area:

The Bluefin-21's initial search is nearing its end. As the underwater sonar device plunged into the Indian Ocean for its 13th mission Friday, authorities are focusing on what they will do if it comes up empty.

That outcome would seem likely. The Bluefin has slowly scoured 95% of the ocean floor that searchers had narrowed down for it. So far, it has found no trace of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:48 am

Sure looks like we'll never find it.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:52 am

Vorret wrote:Sure looks like we'll never find it.

This is where I am, although I keep an ear open to any significant new news. Which means I haven't been listening for a couple of weeks, despite the media portraying every new lead as promising and that the plane is *just* about to be found.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:53 am

Never is a long time. If we can find the Titanic, we can find an airliner. It might take a while, but it will be found.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:56 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Never is a long time. If we can find the Titanic, we can find an airliner. It might take a while, but it will be found.

Agree, I can see a bunch of more traditional sidescan surveys of the surrounding area. At some point some targets of interest will come to light and one of them will be the jet.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:56 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Never is a long time. If we can find the Titanic, we can find an airliner. It might take a while, but it will be found.

Well, yeah. Never is more of a "wow, it's gone" rather than "never in the future history of the human race".

Never = Any time soon, for discussions like this.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:58 am

Synthetic aperture technology is truly amazing stuff.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:12 pm

Couple of years, max.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:26 pm

Rip wrote:Couple of years, max.

A couple of years is still never!

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:32 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Never is a long time. If we can find the Titanic, we can find an airliner. It might take a while, but it will be found.

Also depends what you mean by "airliner." Is a single wing or a landing gear housing "it?" Because depending on the circumstances of the crash, there may be pieces spread all over many of which will indeed never be found.

The Titanic sunk laregly intact. This may have essentially broken apart on impact.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:21 pm

Rip wrote:Couple of years, max.

Do you really think that they are going to keep looking for it...for years? Who's footing the bill for that search?

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:23 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Never is a long time. If we can find the Titanic, we can find an airliner. It might take a while, but it will be found.

Two very different situations. We knew where the Titanic went down, we still have no idea exactly where the plane went down. Until we do, it's hunting for a needle in a haystack.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:29 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
Rip wrote:Couple of years, max.
Do you really think that they are going to keep looking for it...for years? Who's footing the bill for that search?

Sidescan surveys aren't nearly as expensive as the type of operations they are running now. Now actually getting something down to look at whatever the scans turn up, that will be expensive.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:32 pm

google ocean will find it whenever they decide to map it

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:05 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
Rip wrote:Couple of years, max.
Do you really think that they are going to keep looking for it...for years? Who's footing the bill for that search?

I think the search for the Air France flight out of Brazil went on for 2 years. As for paying, a lot of this cost is already in budgets. You have the ships and people already, you simply move them from one set of missions to another. The only incremental cost would be perhaps for some fuel for ships and planes above normal operations and maybe any specialized equipment you'd need to rent/lease if you don't have it.

DD* · Post by DD* » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:35 am

Grifman wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Never is a long time. If we can find the Titanic, we can find an airliner. It might take a while, but it will be found.
Two very different situations. We knew where the Titanic went down, we still have no idea exactly where the plane went down. Until we do, it's hunting for a needle in a haystack.

Not to mention that the Titanic is *slightly* larger than an airliner.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:40 pm

More planes have vanished over the continental US than have vanished in the Bermuda triangle.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:18 pm

Now we have the price for the traditional sidescan search of the area.

Australian officials will be contacting private companies to bring in additional sonar mapping equipment that can be towed behind boats to search the expanded area at an estimated cost of $60 million, Abbott said. It could take officials several weeks to organize contracts for the new equipment and the Bluefin will continue to scour the seabed in the meantime, Abbott said.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/28 ... latestnews

SlapBone · Post by **SlapBone** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:00 pm

It's a shame no one had a US phone. The Miami Crime Scene Investigators could have found that shit in 10 minutes.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:02 pm

GeoResonance discovery discounted offhand seems pretty stupid.

The returns look very promising to me. Disturbing how quick search organizers are to dismiss anything that doesn't fit into their assumptions.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-ai ... ner-found/

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:07 pm

Time to let the the guys most likely to find it if it is there have a go.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/04/world/mh3 ... ?hpt=hp_t4

On Sunday, the search vessel GO Phoenix is expected to arrive at its designated search area in the southern Indian Ocean to begin the next phase of the search.
The ship, and two others which will arrive within the month, will conduct detailed sonar sweeps in an attempt to locate wreckage of the plane.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:28 pm

Oh, I'm sure Dirk Pitt will find it in a few years. He finds everything eventually.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:01 pm

I was thinking about 2014 and found myself remembering the strange episode of Flight 370.

Was anything about this story ever resolved? A quick search suggests that the conspiracy theories are ongoing, but that proves only idiocy.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:15 pm

Holman wrote: Was anything about this story ever resolved? A quick search suggests that the conspiracy theories are ongoing, but that proves only idiocy.

No wreckage, no resolution. The search is still ongoing.

The underwater phase of the search, which began on 6 October 2014, uses three vessels equipped with towed deep water vehicles, which use side-scan sonar, multi-beam echo sounders, and video cameras to locate and identify aircraft debris. As of 17 December 2014, over 11,000 km2 (4,200 sq mi) of seafloor has been searched and the bathymetric survey has mapped over 200,000 km2 (77,000 sq mi) of seafloor. Without significant delays, the priority underwater search area will be completed around May 2015.

Holman wrote: A quick search suggests that the conspiracy theories are ongoing, but that proves only idiocy.

Most recently a French former CEO is theorizing that the US shot it down after it was hijacked to prevent it from attacking a base in Diego Garcia.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:27 am

Yeah, except this guy really have no idea how big is Diego Garcia or how well protected it is. What can ONE plane do?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:35 am

Kasey Chang wrote:Yeah, except this guy really have no idea how big is Diego Garcia or how well protected it is. What can ONE plane do?

I don't believe his theory but I'm sure he would argue that shooting down the plane shows just how well protected Diego Garcia is.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:30 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Kasey Chang wrote:Yeah, except this guy really have no idea how big is Diego Garcia or how well protected it is. What can ONE plane do?
I don't believe his theory but I'm sure he would argue that shooting down the plane shows just how well protected Diego Garcia is.

And there are no witnesses, even anonymous ones, ANYWHERE? A SAM launch ain't exactly invisible.

No, his conspiracy theory requires more bull**** than the official theory. To accept his theory, you have to believe that US and UK (who officially owns DG) was willing to shoot down an airliner without planes sent up to "escort" it, cover up the automated system satellite data sent back to airbus (which would involve the French and Airbus), and let everybody else spent BILLION dollars conducting searches for nothing. It fails Occam's Razor test.

I mean, heck, US admitted to Vincennes shooting down the Iranian airliner, and that's to a "tolerated" enemy. Why wouldn't they admit that DG shot down MH370, esp. if they claimed it may be doing a 9/11 kamikaze on DG?

Nope, too much bull****.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:35 pm

Kasey Chang wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Kasey Chang wrote:Yeah, except this guy really have no idea how big is Diego Garcia or how well protected it is. What can ONE plane do?
I don't believe his theory but I'm sure he would argue that shooting down the plane shows just how well protected Diego Garcia is.
And there are no witnesses, even anonymous ones, ANYWHERE? A SAM launch ain't exactly invisible.

No, his conspiracy theory requires more bull**** than the official theory. To accept his theory, you have to believe that US and UK (who officially owns DG) was willing to shoot down an airliner without planes sent up to "escort" it, cover up the automated system satellite data sent back to airbus (which would involve the French and Airbus), and let everybody else spent BILLION dollars conducting searches for nothing. It fails Occam's Razor test.

I mean, heck, US admitted to Vincennes shooting down the Iranian airliner, and that's to a "tolerated" enemy. Why wouldn't they admit that DG shot down MH370, esp. if they claimed it may be doing a 9/11 kamikaze on DG?

Nope, too much bull****.

It's a conspiracy theory. No one saw it because they used a top-secret laser interdiction system and the US isn't claiming responsibility because they would be exposing their classified defense system and admitting to testing black-projects on a commercial airliner.

People still think we never landed on the moon.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:46 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:It's a conspiracy theory. No one saw it because they used a top-secret laser interdiction system and the US isn't claiming responsibility because they would be exposing their classified defense system and admitting to testing black-projects on a commercial airliner.

People still think we never landed on the moon.

My understanding is they just used a pen light/laser to blind the pilots which of course caused them to panic and point the plane straight down.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:57 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:People still think we never landed on the moon.

Proof!

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:14 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: It's a conspiracy theory. No one saw it because they used a top-secret laser interdiction system and the US isn't claiming responsibility because they would be exposing their classified defense system and admitting to testing black-projects on a commercial airliner.

Fired from WHERE? Lasers are even MORE obvious than missiles, esp. at night. Something powerful to damage or blind pilots will have to be visible spectrum lasers, and that's going to light up city blocks and visible all the way to horizon like a rocket launch. And what signs would such a laser strike leave behind? NOTHING. There's no need for coverup if it was indeed used.

Yes, I know you're just kidding.

People still think we never landed on the moon.

You mean

IDIOTS still think we never landed on the moon.

There, fixed it for you.