The homeowners confronting crooks thread

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The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Rip »

This is an aggregate thread to make note of and discuss homeowners confronting home invaders/burglars/robbers. Please save the pro/anti gun discussion for R&P and start a thread there if you wish to discuss that issue.

Police say a homeowner pulled a gun on a knife wielding man after an attempted armed robbery and held him at bay until police arrived.

Tuscaloosa police say a married couple was eating breakfast on their back porch Sunday morning when 21-year-old Daniel Pearman approached them demanding money.

Authorities say the homeowner fought the man and his wife ran to a neighbor's house to call 911. Police say the man ran inside his home and Pearman followed him, continuing to demand money and valuables.

Police say Pearman eventually left and the homeowner caught up with him after finding his gun and held Pearman at gunpoint.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/15/al ... latestnews

I am always stoked when I hear of homeowners managing to defend themselves against those that would threaten them. No better way to deter this stuff than to capture more of the people doing it and hopefully put them in jail for a LONG time. Hopefully the justice system is up to putting him away for a nice long time.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Smoove_B »

From February of this year - homeowner killed by own gun after confronting burglar:
A homeowner was shot and killed in his front yard with his own shotgun after he interrupted a burglary in his garage in the Pierce County town of Orting.

...

Police believe he interrupted a burglary in his garage, perhaps a gas theft, and it turned deadly when his own shotgun was turned against him.
Does it count if it's in the yard or garage?
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Rip »

Smoove_B wrote:From February of this year - homeowner killed by own gun after confronting burglar:
A homeowner was shot and killed in his front yard with his own shotgun after he interrupted a burglary in his garage in the Pierce County town of Orting.

...

Police believe he interrupted a burglary in his garage, perhaps a gas theft, and it turned deadly when his own shotgun was turned against him.
Does it count if it's in the yard or garage?
Don't see why not. In fact it opens up the chance to bring up a few big points in such a situation.

1. If you are going to confront an intruder with a weapon be WELL versed on how to use it effectively.

2. Don't fall into the ill-advised position that you won't use it unless you see the intruder also has a weapon. You should keep a good distance from them and if they attempt to make their way towards you after you tell them to freeze, SHOOT THEM, armed or not because once they can reach you it will often be them that is armed and you who is not. If they invaded your home they are far less likely to have any qualms about shooting you in an unarmed state than you may have about shooting them. Anyone that can't shoot someone with to prevent them from getting close enough to disarm them should just do themselves a favor and not have the gun in the first place.

3. Don't pursue or search for an intruder with your weapon, get yourself and your family into an area you can protect them/yourself and call for help. Let the police search for them.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by McNutt »

This thread seems like it's to justify gun ownership and promote support for the 2nd Amendment. Why not have this in R&P and allow the other side of the argument? I'm all for gun ownership, just not one-side only discussions.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Everything I have read and heard from police officers states that you shouldn't confront a home invader if at all possible - bad odds for the homeowner in those cases. The best odds outcome (after escaping the house of course) is to get to a locked room and call the cops.

I still wonder how a taser might be useful in a home invasion situation, or if they are even advised at all.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

McNutt wrote:This thread seems like it's to justify gun ownership and promote support for the 2nd Amendment. Why not have this in R&P and allow the other side of the argument? I'm all for gun ownership, just not one-side only discussions.
Agree. You can't fool us, Rip! We love you man, but you are a tricksy little hobbit!
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by McNutt »

Bad scenario is that you use the Taser and miss. But what if you do successfully taze the intruder. What do you do then?
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Wasn't there a video game where you could keep tazing them until their had exploded?
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by McNutt »

Dig Dug?
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

I think it might have been in the Syphon Filter series.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Rip wrote: I am always stoked when I hear of homeowners managing to defend themselves against those that would threaten them. No better way to deter this stuff than to capture more of the people doing it and hopefully put them in jail for a LONG time. Hopefully the justice system is up to putting him away for a nice long time.
Then I assume you're also scouring the internet for stories about arrests and not just the "man with gun thwarts intruder" stories.

Here, I'll get it started:
An Easton man has been charged with aggravated assault for spitting on a Bethlehem police officer after he was arrested during a burglary, reports say.

Daniel Mercano, 37, of the 1000 block of Elm Street, was caught inside Berroa’s Grocery and Deli in the 700 block of Broadway at 6:35 a.m. Sunday, Bethlehem police say. He had allegedly gotten into the store by breaking a first-floor side window.
STOCKTON – Police arrested an alleged burglar early Monday morning after a woman woke up when she heard noises from inside her home, according to the Stockton Police Department.

The 67-year-old woman called police about 12:56 a.m., reporting she heard “strange noises” and thought somebody was inside her home in the 1100 block of West Park Street, according to a report from the Stockton Police Department.

When police arrived, officers reported a suspect fled, but caught a short distance away. Police arrested Sterling Avery, 19, on suspicion of committing burglary.
Steven Capobianco was arrested today in connection with a burglary case that is not related to the Charli Scott homicide investigation for which he has been named as a person of interest, according to Maui police.

According to police reports, the alleged robbery occurred between 5 p.m. on Sept. 8, 2013, and 11 a.m. on Sept. 19, 2013, when an unknown person or persons unlawfully entered a residence on Eono Place in Haʻikū.
Page police officers arrested a man on armed burglary charges following a standoff over the weekend.

According to information from Page Police Department, officers responded to a burglary alarm around 2:15 a.m. Sunday at Page Lumber, located at 655 S. Lake Powell Blvd. in Page. While securing the building, the officers saw a white male climb through a broken window with a shotgun. The suspect fled when he saw police and hid in the outside fenced portion of the business. They were later able to locate him on the property.
Nutley police arrested seven people in connection to residential burglaries occurring in the township between December of last year and March of this year.

Nutley Police Chief Thomas Strumolo told the Sun that the township experienced a spike in burglaries, with 12 throughout the three-month period.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by coopasonic »

McNutt wrote:Bad scenario is that you use the Taser and miss. But what if you do successfully taze the intruder. What do you do then?
You don't keep your home stocked in these? I thought everyone did.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Rip »

McNutt wrote:This thread seems like it's to justify gun ownership and promote support for the 2nd Amendment. Why not have this in R&P and allow the other side of the argument? I'm all for gun ownership, just not one-side only discussions.
Go make one. This thread is not to debate whether to have or not have guns but to discuss homeowners who confront criminals, sans any pro/anti gun ownership discussion.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Fretmute »

Rip wrote:
McNutt wrote:This thread seems like it's to justify gun ownership and promote support for the 2nd Amendment. Why not have this in R&P and allow the other side of the argument? I'm all for gun ownership, just not one-side only discussions.
Go make one. This thread is not to debate whether to have or not have guns but to discuss homeowners who confront criminals, sans any pro/anti gun ownership discussion.
You're glib, Matt.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

McNutt wrote:Bad scenario is that you use the Taser and miss. But what if you do successfully taze the intruder. What do you do then?
This is our concern, Dude.

Even considering you don't miss, or that said intruder is wearing a heavy jacket, they are going to be downed for what...20 seconds? I guess that buys you enough time to go upstairs, round up all the kids, and get everyone out whilst the intruder is hopefully still writhing in pain on the floor. And hopefully they also aren't hopped up on something that lets them pretty much ignore a taser (like the "wizard" at Coachella, who was tased with the barbs AND then tased multiple times point blank to the neck and chest when that didn't affect him).

I seriously need to come up with a better plan than "Taser" for home defense (that doesn't involve a firearm)

A baseball bat behind the door is not a plan (this is what I have had for years) In fact, according to what I just read, that's a good way to get hurt or killed, or escalate a situation that may have simply gone away if you had not surprised/provoked the intruder wielding a bat.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

A home defense shotgun with beanbag or rubber ball rounds? A paintball gun with capsaicin rounds?
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Isgrimnur wrote:A home defense shotgun with beanbag or rubber ball rounds?
Hey, now you're thinking outside the box! I like that. Wife would never go for it, but *I* like it. The concern there is that even supposedly non-lethal rounds like that could be/probably are fatal to a toddler if they ever got their hands on it.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

A gun safe with a keypad would work wonders. You're going to have to retrieve the thing anyway, might as well have a nifty box for it.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:A home defense shotgun with beanbag or rubber ball rounds?
Hey, now you're thinking outside the box! I like that. Wife would never go for it, but *I* like it. The concern there is that even supposedly non-lethal rounds like that could be/probably are fatal to a toddler if they ever got their hands on it.
Lock it. Lock ammo separately. Both preferably out of reach/sight of toddler.

Incidentally, I think they're called "less lethal" now by manufacturers, not "non-lethal."




The plan should always be 1) escape; else 2) barricade 3) get to [locked] firearm 4) contact police 5) wait for resuce/wait for intruder to leave and if all else fails 6) engage intruder. You should have a defense plan for every room in the house, with and without your weapon of choice.

Of course, the order of all that changes if you want to live a Charles Bronson fantasy or if you have an item that you value more than your life/your family's lives.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

From a recent event:

" Just before 3 a.m. Friday, the homeowner awoke with a start from a basement bedroom. He heard people walking upstairs in his home. Through the dark, he glimpsed the beam of a flashlight and the man carrying it: white, 30s, unshaven.

The homeowner grabbed a handgun from the nightstand and called out: “I have a gun.” He also told the intruder, and whoever else was in his home, that he was calling 911, according to Loretta Cool, spokeswoman for the Tacoma Police Department.

According to the police report: One intruder from down the hall called back: “We’re homeless. We’re just looking for a place to sleep.” The other fled up the stairs with his comrade soon behind."

Again, from law enforcement-esque sources I read online, you shouldn't call out like that...ever, even to say you have a gun. That just alerts the burglars to your location, and apparently you don't want to surprise a burglar...which is statistically when bad things happen (to both parties).

I guess if you have no way to get to a phone to call out, that might change things, though.

Edited to add a response to the "lock your weapon" comments...I have thought about this a lot...and the extent to which I would feel comfortable enough having a firearm in the house, would pretty much result in it being a terrible choice in a night time, panicked situation where options are few and time is important. i.e. for a firearm to be in my house, it would need to be locked, separated from the ammo, that locked, etc. All of which results in too much time or noise or trouble to get to in such a situation.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Rip »

One thing you should consider is having a very good escape plan.

There was a guy I used to work with when I was in the ROV business. He had once been trapped in a fire a couple stories up in a building. We traveled a lot and he carried a bag that had a good length of rope in it. He would never stay in a hotel room that was higher than his rope would reach. After having been trapped once and escaped he was determined to never let himself again be in a position where he could not flee a fire out the window.

The moral being if you don't think you will be able to successfully fight something in your defense be ready for the next best thing which is to flee the threat.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Rip wrote:The moral being if you don't think you will be able to successfully fight something in your defense be ready for the next best thing which is to flee the threat.
Again, according to everything I read online, statistically speaking (and what is recommended by law enforcement) you have that backwards.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Jeff V »

Smoove_B wrote:From February of this year - homeowner killed by own gun after confronting burglar:
A homeowner was shot and killed in his front yard with his own shotgun after he interrupted a burglary in his garage in the Pierce County town of Orting.

...

Police believe he interrupted a burglary in his garage, perhaps a gas theft, and it turned deadly when his own shotgun was turned against him.
Does it count if it's in the yard or garage?
This is fun, I'll play:

Homeowner shot with own gun during Kingsburg robbery
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by GreenGoo »

When Smoove posted the "gun owner shot with own weapon" I pondered what would happen if both sides posted many examples. I realized that it is a no win situation. Those that successfully defended their families with firearms are heroes, and those that unsuccessfully defended their famlies with firearms are "doing it wrong".

Those who die to their own guns are, by definition, incompetent and those that successfully protect their households are, by definition, competent. Q.E.D.

Only competent people should have guns. Duh.

Unfortunately it seems the only way to tell the competent from the incompetent is whether they "win" or "lose" an armed encounter with an intruder.

All that said, I'm always happy when no harm comes to a victim of home invasion, whether through luck, strong defense or quick thinking.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by GargoyleBoy »

Rip wrote: 3. Don't pursue or search for an intruder with your weapon, get yourself and your family into an area you can protect them/yourself and call for help. Let the police search for them.
Just pointing out the guy in the OP violated rule #3:
Police say Pearman eventually left and the homeowner caught up with him after finding his gun and held Pearman at gunpoint.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by gameoverman »

I got the impression that the guy shot with his own shotgun did not have it on him, that is the thieves found it in his garage and used it to shoot him. The guy shot with his own .22 rifle? Well there's your problem! He's using a .22 ,a RIFLE no less, for home defense. Come on! We live in the internet age, research your shit before you pick your weapon.

Also, it's important to note that no weapon is useful if the bad guys are upon you before you're armed and prepared to face them. In a situation like that you might be better off not showing them the weapon, out of sight out of mind.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by gilraen »

GargoyleBoy wrote:
Rip wrote: 3. Don't pursue or search for an intruder with your weapon, get yourself and your family into an area you can protect them/yourself and call for help. Let the police search for them.
Just pointing out the guy in the OP violated rule #3:
Police say Pearman eventually left and the homeowner caught up with him after finding his gun and held Pearman at gunpoint.
In many jurisdictions, chasing an intruder that has already attempted to run away will automatically negate the self-defense and result in attempted murder charges - for you, not the crook.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by soulbringer »

gilraen wrote:
GargoyleBoy wrote:
Rip wrote: 3. Don't pursue or search for an intruder with your weapon, get yourself and your family into an area you can protect them/yourself and call for help. Let the police search for them.
Just pointing out the guy in the OP violated rule #3:
Police say Pearman eventually left and the homeowner caught up with him after finding his gun and held Pearman at gunpoint.
In many jurisdictions, chasing an intruder that has already attempted to run away will automatically negate the self-defense and result in attempted murder charges - for you, not the crook.
Nah shoot him and drag him back on your lawn then no one knows he escaped.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Daily Mail wrote:A Montana man was charged in a shooting that killed a 17-year-old exchange student - after he and his wife reportedly set a trap in their garage to catch would-be burglars because of recent thefts.

Court records obtained by KPAX said Kaarma and his wife, Janelle Pflager, had set up sensors outside the garage, a video monitoring system in the garage and left the garage door open.

Pflager said she put personal items that she had cataloged in a purse in the garage 'so that they would take it.'

Early Sunday, the sensors went off, and Kaarma and Pflager looked at the video feed and saw that someone was in the garage.

Kaarma went outside with his shotgun. He told investigators he heard a noise that sounded 'like metal on metal,' and he was afraid the intruder would come out and hurt him. He said he did not see anyone in the darkened garage and did not communicate with anyone before sweeping the garage with four shotgun blasts. Dede was struck in the head and arm and died at a Missoula hospital, court records said.

Kaarma told police he fired high to avoid hitting the car in the garage - but court records showed that three of four shots were aimed low.

He also told investigators 'wanted him to be caught' because 'police can't catch burglars in the act.'

Plager's testimony shows a different version of events.

She told police she heard Kaarma say 'Hey hey' at the garage door and put a shell into his shotgun. She then heard someone say 'Hey' or 'Wait' right before Kaarma fired two shots. As she went to turn on lights, two more shots were fired, according to court records.

...

'They certainly didn't tell the kid to come in (the garage),' [Kaarma's attorney Paul] Ryan said. 'He entered voluntarily.'

On Sunday, a woman told investigators that Kaarma had told her that he had been waiting up for three nights with his shotgun to 'shoot some f****** kid, court records said.

Less than two hours before the Missoula shooting, a homeowner 350 miles away in Billings shot and wounded a houseguest he thought was an intruder.

The 19-year-old seminary student was making a phone call in the home's garage late Saturday when he was shot, Billings Police Sgt. Pat Curry told The Billings Gazette.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Arcanis »

For those who were talking about a safe way of having a weapon locked but ready in emergency. Every 'gun specialist' i've ever seen talk about it has recommended a bio-metric safe. Most are a hand scanner and the box is just big enough for a pistol with a spare magazine. It doesn't do you any good if you are out cold and they use your hand to open it, but at that point you have bigger issues than them getting to your gun.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

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I remember that time I met Rachael Ray............................oh wait, cRooks!
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by AWS260 »

Here's something for Rip to enjoy: audio of an armed homeowner confronting two teenagers who broke into his house.
The recording captured the sounds of Smith shooting Brady as he came down the stairs. Brady groans after the first and second shots, but is silent after a third shot, and Smith can be heard saying, “You’re dead.”

Prosecutors say Smith put Brady’s body on a tarp and dragged it into another room, then sat down and reloaded his weapon.
Kifer whispers, “Nick?” A shot is fired, and Kifer screams. Smith apologizes as his gun jams, then fires at Kifer four more times and says: “You’re dying.” A sixth and final shot — Smith described it as a “finishing shot” to investigators — was heard soon after.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Rip »

AWS260 wrote:Here's something for Rip to enjoy: audio of an armed homeowner confronting two teenagers who broke into his house.
The recording captured the sounds of Smith shooting Brady as he came down the stairs. Brady groans after the first and second shots, but is silent after a third shot, and Smith can be heard saying, “You’re dead.”

Prosecutors say Smith put Brady’s body on a tarp and dragged it into another room, then sat down and reloaded his weapon.
Kifer whispers, “Nick?” A shot is fired, and Kifer screams. Smith apologizes as his gun jams, then fires at Kifer four more times and says: “You’re dying.” A sixth and final shot — Smith described it as a “finishing shot” to investigators — was heard soon after.
Not sure why you think I would enjoy it? He was found guilty of murder as he should have. Sad that something like that would happen in the first place. The guy is obviously deranged.

From the sounds of it he could have easily confronted them and gotten them to surrender and he could have turned them over to the cops. There doesn't appear to me to have been any reason for him to shoot them at all let alone to continue shooting them after he had wounded them.

He should be executed but Minnesota is one of the enlightened states that think no one deserves to be executed. To me however this guy obviously deserves it.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Rip »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Daily Mail wrote:A Montana man was charged in a shooting that killed a 17-year-old exchange student - after he and his wife reportedly set a trap in their garage to catch would-be burglars because of recent thefts.

Court records obtained by KPAX said Kaarma and his wife, Janelle Pflager, had set up sensors outside the garage, a video monitoring system in the garage and left the garage door open.

Pflager said she put personal items that she had cataloged in a purse in the garage 'so that they would take it.'

Early Sunday, the sensors went off, and Kaarma and Pflager looked at the video feed and saw that someone was in the garage.

Kaarma went outside with his shotgun. He told investigators he heard a noise that sounded 'like metal on metal,' and he was afraid the intruder would come out and hurt him. He said he did not see anyone in the darkened garage and did not communicate with anyone before sweeping the garage with four shotgun blasts. Dede was struck in the head and arm and died at a Missoula hospital, court records said.

Kaarma told police he fired high to avoid hitting the car in the garage - but court records showed that three of four shots were aimed low.

He also told investigators 'wanted him to be caught' because 'police can't catch burglars in the act.'

Plager's testimony shows a different version of events.

She told police she heard Kaarma say 'Hey hey' at the garage door and put a shell into his shotgun. She then heard someone say 'Hey' or 'Wait' right before Kaarma fired two shots. As she went to turn on lights, two more shots were fired, according to court records.

...

'They certainly didn't tell the kid to come in (the garage),' [Kaarma's attorney Paul] Ryan said. 'He entered voluntarily.'

On Sunday, a woman told investigators that Kaarma had told her that he had been waiting up for three nights with his shotgun to 'shoot some f****** kid, court records said.

Less than two hours before the Missoula shooting, a homeowner 350 miles away in Billings shot and wounded a houseguest he thought was an intruder.

The 19-year-old seminary student was making a phone call in the home's garage late Saturday when he was shot, Billings Police Sgt. Pat Curry told The Billings Gazette.
When all you want to use is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Blindly shooting into a room is just plain stupid. Both cases are ones where the shooters should be prosecuted IMHO. To be afraid for your life to me means you see someone doing something that causes that fear. If you don't actually see anyone to be in fear for your life is irrational.
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mori
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by mori »

Rip wrote:
AWS260 wrote:Here's something for Rip to enjoy: audio of an armed homeowner confronting two teenagers who broke into his house.
The recording captured the sounds of Smith shooting Brady as he came down the stairs. Brady groans after the first and second shots, but is silent after a third shot, and Smith can be heard saying, “You’re dead.”

Prosecutors say Smith put Brady’s body on a tarp and dragged it into another room, then sat down and reloaded his weapon.
Kifer whispers, “Nick?” A shot is fired, and Kifer screams. Smith apologizes as his gun jams, then fires at Kifer four more times and says: “You’re dying.” A sixth and final shot — Smith described it as a “finishing shot” to investigators — was heard soon after.
Not sure why you think I would enjoy it? He was found guilty of murder as he should have. Sad that something like that would happen in the first place. The guy is obviously deranged.

From the sounds of it he could have easily confronted them and gotten them to surrender and he could have turned them over to the cops. There doesn't appear to me to have been any reason for him to shoot them at all let alone to continue shooting them after he had wounded them.

He should be executed but Minnesota is one of the enlightened states that think no one deserves to be executed. To me however this guy obviously deserves it.
This was major news locally. Not surprised that Smith got convicted of murder, but 1st degree? That surprised and upset many even in this blue state. His own paranoid tendencies gave the evidence of his own conviction. He will spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. He let himself be so in fear of petty thieves, he was willing to end their lives and the remainder of his own.
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Rip
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Rip »

mori wrote:
Rip wrote:
AWS260 wrote:Here's something for Rip to enjoy: audio of an armed homeowner confronting two teenagers who broke into his house.
The recording captured the sounds of Smith shooting Brady as he came down the stairs. Brady groans after the first and second shots, but is silent after a third shot, and Smith can be heard saying, “You’re dead.”

Prosecutors say Smith put Brady’s body on a tarp and dragged it into another room, then sat down and reloaded his weapon.
Kifer whispers, “Nick?” A shot is fired, and Kifer screams. Smith apologizes as his gun jams, then fires at Kifer four more times and says: “You’re dying.” A sixth and final shot — Smith described it as a “finishing shot” to investigators — was heard soon after.
Not sure why you think I would enjoy it? He was found guilty of murder as he should have. Sad that something like that would happen in the first place. The guy is obviously deranged.

From the sounds of it he could have easily confronted them and gotten them to surrender and he could have turned them over to the cops. There doesn't appear to me to have been any reason for him to shoot them at all let alone to continue shooting them after he had wounded them.

He should be executed but Minnesota is one of the enlightened states that think no one deserves to be executed. To me however this guy obviously deserves it.
This was major news locally. Not surprised that Smith got convicted of murder, but 1st degree? That surprised and upset many even in this blue state. His own paranoid tendencies gave the evidence of his own conviction. He will spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. He let himself be so in fear of petty thieves, he was willing to end their lives and the remainder of his own.
I think if he had just shot them once he would have gotten off with less. But to shoot them several times was way over the line. The fact that he even reloaded after shooting the girl to then finish her off makes it obvious he was just looking for an excuse to kill some people as a matter of revenge for them robbing him. No sympathy at all for the guy from me.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by Pyperkub »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Daily Mail wrote:A Montana man was charged in a shooting that killed a 17-year-old exchange student - after he and his wife reportedly set a trap in their garage to catch would-be burglars because of recent thefts.

Court records obtained by KPAX said Kaarma and his wife, Janelle Pflager, had set up sensors outside the garage, a video monitoring system in the garage and left the garage door open.

Pflager said she put personal items that she had cataloged in a purse in the garage 'so that they would take it.'

Early Sunday, the sensors went off, and Kaarma and Pflager looked at the video feed and saw that someone was in the garage.

Kaarma went outside with his shotgun. He told investigators he heard a noise that sounded 'like metal on metal,' and he was afraid the intruder would come out and hurt him. He said he did not see anyone in the darkened garage and did not communicate with anyone before sweeping the garage with four shotgun blasts. Dede was struck in the head and arm and died at a Missoula hospital, court records said.

Kaarma told police he fired high to avoid hitting the car in the garage - but court records showed that three of four shots were aimed low.

He also told investigators 'wanted him to be caught' because 'police can't catch burglars in the act.'

Plager's testimony shows a different version of events.

She told police she heard Kaarma say 'Hey hey' at the garage door and put a shell into his shotgun. She then heard someone say 'Hey' or 'Wait' right before Kaarma fired two shots. As she went to turn on lights, two more shots were fired, according to court records.

...

'They certainly didn't tell the kid to come in (the garage),' [Kaarma's attorney Paul] Ryan said. 'He entered voluntarily.'

On Sunday, a woman told investigators that Kaarma had told her that he had been waiting up for three nights with his shotgun to 'shoot some f****** kid, court records said.

Less than two hours before the Missoula shooting, a homeowner 350 miles away in Billings shot and wounded a houseguest he thought was an intruder.

The 19-year-old seminary student was making a phone call in the home's garage late Saturday when he was shot, Billings Police Sgt. Pat Curry told The Billings Gazette.
When all you want to use is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Even more so when you apparently keep your pot stash in the garage and may have been smoking it?
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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LordMortis
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by LordMortis »

Something has really sticking in my craw lately. I've seen about four separate reports in the last month where break ins have resulted in the shooting deaths of teen thieves, two local and two national. Along with four separate interviews with families and close friends with the exact same quote "They didn't deserve to die" with a sort of powerless anger directed at the home owners.

I'm betting these family members are right but I just don't see "deserve" entering the picture when a homeowner is confronted with the safety of their family.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/05/ ... d-friends/

One does have to wonder if all of this news is because of rise break ins and home owners shooting burglars or if it's just trendy in the news. One also has to wonder with all of this increased exposure if things will stay as they are, if crime will go down, if burglars will start using care or arm themselves, or if other effects happen.
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote:Something has really sticking in my craw lately. I've seen about four separate reports in the last month where break ins have resulted in the shooting deaths of teen thieves, two local and two national. Along with four separate interviews with families and close friends with the exact same quote "They didn't deserve to die" with a sort of powerless anger directed at the home owners.

I'm betting these family members are right but I just don't see "deserve" entering the picture when a homeowner is confronted with the safety of their family.
Leaving your house and blind-firing into your garage tells me you are more concerned with the safety of your stuff and/or with shooting someone than the safety of your family.
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LordMortis
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Re: The homeowners confronting crooks thread

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
LordMortis wrote:Something has really sticking in my craw lately. I've seen about four separate reports in the last month where break ins have resulted in the shooting deaths of teen thieves, two local and two national. Along with four separate interviews with families and close friends with the exact same quote "They didn't deserve to die" with a sort of powerless anger directed at the home owners.

I'm betting these family members are right but I just don't see "deserve" entering the picture when a homeowner is confronted with the safety of their family.
Leaving your house and blind-firing into your garage tells me you are more concerned with the safety of your stuff and/or with shooting someone than the safety of your family.
I wasn't talking about the garage. That's why I linked to a different story. The story I linked to was a second break in by teenagers into an elderly house while they were home and the one of the elderly folks shooting and killing the teen aged burglars.

I keep seeing the same story with a different instance. Teen aged burglars being killed over a B&E and family stepping forward and saying the same thing. "They didn't deserve to die" and "They're just things. They aren't worth killing for." It's strange to me. These kids don't seem to deserve to die but faulting the home owners for protecting their families from hostiles entering their homes can only feel like misplaced anger you should put on yourself for raising a child the killed while burgling. If I were a gun owner and especially a gun owner with loved ones in my house, I'd shoot first and worry about consequences later.
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