The homeowners confronting crooks thread

[hepcat]

Just a heads up: illegal aliens aren't all light brown.

[Canuck]

Reading this thread makes me think of the frightened pilgrims cartoon on Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine.

[Rip]

Yea could be. We shall see I guess.

What really amazes me is that CNN doesn't even think it is news.

No way I would miss the chance to do a story that would(could) happen to point out the fact that the first female national news anchor worked at CNN.

I'm sure they have their reasons.

[Alefroth]

Further digging makes me think it wasn't an illegal alien.

She said the suspect was a thin, black man wearing green and white. He was agitated and seemed desperate, she said.

http://www.abqjournal.com/606613/news/t ... motel.html

Further? Don't you mean some?

[Rip]

Further digging makes me think it wasn't an illegal alien.

She said the suspect was a thin, black man wearing green and white. He was agitated and seemed desperate, she said.

http://www.abqjournal.com/606613/news/t ... motel.html

Further? Don't you mean some?

No, I read two articles that didn't describe the shooter. Then I saw that one that did.

[Rip]

So CNN finally picked up the story.

I miss the days when CNN caught stories first.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/01/us/new-me ... index.html

There is still a mysterious inability or lack of desire to identify the perpetrator.

[tjg_marantz]

Jesus you're something else.

[em2nought]

I bet a national security strategist can hide his tracks back to a craigslist wm4m ad, probably told the dude he needed to wear a hat, and he didn't like it.

[LawBeefaroni]

11-year-old shoots teen invader.

An 11-year-old St. Louis-area boy fatally shot a 16-year-old who entered his home during an alleged home invasion Thursday, police said.

But before you celebrate:

Police said the 11-year-old and a 4-year-old girl who was also inside the home were not injured. Their mother, who was not home at the time of the shooting, is cooperating with the investigation, police said.

The gun belonged to the 11-year-old's mother, St. Louis County police Sgt. Brian Schellman told NBC station KSDK.

I guess that's one way to save babysitting, but it doesn't always work out this way.

A 21-month-old toddler who was fatally shot near St. Louis Tuesday found a handgun and shot himself, police said.

The child was taken to an area hospital and pronounced dead after being shot at around 1 p.m. in Hanley Hills, a village northwest of St. Louis, the St. Louis County Police Department said. Police said later Tuesday that the shooting was accidental. "Detectives believe the victim picked up a loaded handgun and shot himself," St. Louis County police said in a statement.

[GreenGoo]

11 is plenty old enough to babysit depending on length of time and situation, and if he's been trained in firearms safety and usage I don't have a problem with him having access to the gun.

I don't know the details of this situation but it doesn't jump out at me as irresponsible.

[LawBeefaroni]

11 is plenty old enough to babysit depending on length of time and situation, and if he's been trained in firearms safety and usage I don't have a problem with him having access to the gun.

I don't know the details of this situation but it doesn't jump out at me as irresponsible.

It does to me. And I was shooting by the time I was 9 or so. This kid used a handgun. A minor should not have unrestricted access to a handgun, IMO. I guess the exact age can be debated but 11 is far too young.



And this isn't a situation of the kid babysitting and someone happening to break in in a one-in-a-million chance. According to the article, the mom bought the handgun because of repeated break-ins. So she left her kids home alone despite those break-ins, presumably because the 11-year-old had access to the handgun?

I certainly feel for a single mother and I'm glad her kids are fine and the intruder was stopped. But really? You think that's a viable solution, leaving an 11-year-old and 4-year-old home alone with a handgun?

[Rip]

Depends on the handgun. 44 magnum no, small caliber handgun and an 11 year old well trained in weapons safety, not ideal but also not crazy.

My son is twelve and while he doesn't have access to one, I would trust him if I took the time to properly prepare him for the responsibility.

That said I haven't done so, he doesn't have access to one, and I don't foresee a need to do such a thing for us.

[GreenGoo]

I certainly feel for a single mother and I'm glad her kids are fine and the intruder was stopped. But really? You think that's a viable solution, leaving an 11-year-old and 4-year-old home alone with a handgun?

Not sure. Maybe. From a libertarian point of view it was the perfect solution.

My 11 year old is not responsible enough to be left with a handgun, but he could have been made responsible enough if I had wanted him to be.

While I have some sympathy for your viewpoint, and I certainly would not have done as this mother did for a variety of reasons, I don't know that the situation was unreasonable for other people.

If we accept that private property can be defended with deadly force, and we accept that an 11 year old can babysit a 4 year old (I think a full work day is too long, but that's just my opinion), how can we not accept that an 11 year old can use deadly force while babysitting? If the 11 year old had stabbed the intruder to death, would that change anything?

I personally am not a gun person, and I think there are too many guns in the world, but if I was a gun person, and I trained my 11 year old to use a gun properly, I can see how some 11 year olds might be able to handle the responsibility of owning their own handgun.

And that doesn't even consider the idea that it's possible that some people are so poor and live in such bad neighbourhoods with lots of crime, that free daycare with a gun is the best of a lot of bad options. At least the woman is working.

My preferred options is less guns for everyone, but that ain't happening, so...

[LawBeefaroni]

I certainly feel for a single mother and I'm glad her kids are fine and the intruder was stopped. But really? You think that's a viable solution, leaving an 11-year-old and 4-year-old home alone with a handgun?

Not sure. Maybe. From a libertarian point of view it was the perfect solution.

My 11 year old is not responsible enough to be left with a handgun, but he could have been made responsible enough if I had wanted him to be.

While I have some sympathy for your viewpoint, and I certainly would not have done as this mother did for a variety of reasons, I don't know that the situation was unreasonable for other people.

If we accept that private property can be defended with deadly force, and we accept that an 11 year old can babysit a 4 year old (I think a full work day is too long, but that's just my opinion), how can we not accept that an 11 year old can use deadly force while babysitting? If the 11 year old had stabbed the intruder to death, would that change anything?

I personally am not a gun person, and I think there are too many guns in the world, but if I was a gun person, and I trained my 11 year old to use a gun properly, I can see how some 11 year olds might be able to handle the responsibility of owning their own handgun.

Deadly force isn't about ability to use a weapon, it's about ability to make the proper decision when to use it. I'd posit that an 11-year-old isn't properly equipped to make that decision and it's unfair to put them in a position where they have to.

And that doesn't even consider the idea that it's possible that some people are so poor and live in such bad neighbourhoods with lots of crime, that free daycare with a gun is the best of a lot of bad options. At least the woman is working.

It's an unacceptable option. Not for the mother to do it, but for society to accept it. But then people also wonder why this same community was the flashpoint for riots.

[GreenGoo]

I should note that if my wife suggested that we leave our 11 year old home alone with a gun to protect the house I would react as Lawbeef has, except probably a lot more outraged. The very idea that we get a gun and give it to our kid so we could leave him alone to protect the house, his sibling and himself while we are at work is INSANE.

I just don't think it's necessarily insane for everyone.

[GreenGoo]

Deadly force isn't about ability to use a weapon, it's about ability to make the proper decision when to use it. I'd posit that an 11-year-old isn't properly equipped to make that decision and it's unfair to put them in a position where they have to.

I can't disagree. Others might however.

It's an unacceptable option. Not for the mother to do it, but for society to accept it. But then people also wonder why this same community was the flashpoint for riots.

On this one I'm torn. On the one hand I support social programs and pouring tax dollars into the less fortunate in various, hopefully productive ways (I'm Canadian, remember). That said, in a society that values self reliance and is less apt to give people a leg up than more socialist countries, people can get into pretty dire straits and if they can find a legal way to work through those straits, more power to them. I mean, if there is an attempt to minimize social programs (as a general philosophy, the US has a TON of social programs. I'm not judging), it's hard to get upset when people due the best they can in difficult circumstances.

It's certainly unacceptable up here, and the mother would get crushed under the nanny state, but she also would have a few more options (possibly not, I am unsure what's available to single mothers) in this country in order to avoid getting in that situation all together.

It's unacceptable to me, for sure.

[Rip]

I certainly feel for a single mother and I'm glad her kids are fine and the intruder was stopped. But really? You think that's a viable solution, leaving an 11-year-old and 4-year-old home alone with a handgun?

Not sure. Maybe. From a libertarian point of view it was the perfect solution.

My 11 year old is not responsible enough to be left with a handgun, but he could have been made responsible enough if I had wanted him to be.

While I have some sympathy for your viewpoint, and I certainly would not have done as this mother did for a variety of reasons, I don't know that the situation was unreasonable for other people.

If we accept that private property can be defended with deadly force, and we accept that an 11 year old can babysit a 4 year old (I think a full work day is too long, but that's just my opinion), how can we not accept that an 11 year old can use deadly force while babysitting? If the 11 year old had stabbed the intruder to death, would that change anything?

I personally am not a gun person, and I think there are too many guns in the world, but if I was a gun person, and I trained my 11 year old to use a gun properly, I can see how some 11 year olds might be able to handle the responsibility of owning their own handgun.

Deadly force isn't about ability to use a weapon, it's about ability to make the proper decision when to use it. I'd posit that an 11-year-old isn't properly equipped to make that decision and it's unfair to put them in a position where they have to.

And that doesn't even consider the idea that it's possible that some people are so poor and live in such bad neighbourhoods with lots of crime, that free daycare with a gun is the best of a lot of bad options. At least the woman is working.

It's an unacceptable option. Not for the mother to do it, but for society to accept it. But then people also wonder why this same community was the flashpoint for riots.

So is leaving him alone an even worse decision then. If he had stabbed the intruder with a knife would you object to that? Would you leave an 11 year old unattended without also removing all the available knives in the house? How about rocks, because having the ability to make a proper decision about when to be using weapons really isn't tied all that much to the weapon.

I would suggest if you are old enough to be left alone you had better be old enough to make a decision about whether or not use of a weapon is warranted.

[Unagi]

like 11 year old baby sitters for example, that level of maturity... right?

Leaving them at home with kitchen knives == leaving them home with a loaded gun in the basement.

[Unagi]

I personally am not a gun person, and I think there are too many guns in the world, but if I was a gun person, and I trained my 11 year old to use a gun properly, I can see how some 11 year olds might be able to handle the responsibility of owning their own handgun.

I think there is a reason we don't (generally) treat 11 year olds in court the same way we do 18 year olds - and this is the same reason.

[Rip]

like 11 year old baby sitters for example, that level of maturity... right?

Leaving them at home with kitchen knives == leaving them home with a loaded gun in the basement.

I was addressing directly Lawbeef's statement that....

Deadly force isn't about ability to use a weapon, it's about ability to make the proper decision when to use it. I'd posit that an 11-year-old isn't properly equipped to make that decision and it's unfair to put them in a position where they have to.

A decision to use deadly force or not has nothing to do with the weapon. The decision to stab someone, shoot them, or hurl a rock at them is no different. Deadly force doesn't care what the tool applying it is.

[Rip]

I personally am not a gun person, and I think there are too many guns in the world, but if I was a gun person, and I trained my 11 year old to use a gun properly, I can see how some 11 year olds might be able to handle the responsibility of owning their own handgun.

I think there is a reason we don't (generally) treat 11 year olds in court the same way we do 18 year olds - and this is the same reason.

But that is irrelevant. At what ages the court decides to enforce accountability/responsibility in no way binds the parent to doing the same. Nor should it. I was hunting, driving, and working at that age and I was fully capable of doing so. Depends on the kid. Courts can't make individual calls, parents can and should.

[Paingod]

I personally am not a gun person, and I think there are too many guns in the world, but if I was a gun person, and I trained my 11 year old to use a gun properly, I can see how some 11 year olds might be able to handle the responsibility of owning their own handgun.

I think there is a reason we don't (generally) treat 11 year olds in court the same way we do 18 year olds - and this is the same reason.

But that is irrelevant. At what ages the court decides to enforce accountability/responsibility in no way binds the parent to doing the same. Nor should it. I was hunting, driving, and working at that age and I was fully capable of doing so. Depends on the kid. Courts can't make individual calls, parents can and should.

I think it depends entirely on your environment. In an upper-class neighborhood, 11 is probably barely old enough to be trusted with safety scissors. In a 3rd world slum, 11 is old enough to earn slave wages and fight for your own survival. 150 years ago, 11 was old enough to be out hunting with your own deadly weapons that you were responsible for maintaining and have seen a lot of death around you in your friends and family. It depends entirely on what you've grown up with.

11 is certainly old enough to be home and watch a sibling for a while. It's old enough for years of gun safety knowledge. You can't expect the mother to take her kids to work and everywhere else she goes, and she probably can't afford daycare. I'd wager this particular 11 year old was assuming the role of "Man of the House" and is able to act more responsibly than a lot of 16 year old kids would in that situation.

[Daehawk]

If you are going to have guns and kids its best to teach them and teach them early and continually.

[Paingod]

If you are going to have guns and kids its best to teach them and teach them early and continually.

The best kind of gun control is knowing how to control a gun.

I plan to teach my kids safety as early as we think they can handle it. I don't want their first exposure to be over at little Tommy's house, when Tommy finds his parent's gun and decides he wants to play cops and robbers. I'd prefer my boys know how to handle that and what to do about it safely instead of saying "Sure!"

[Exodor]

Is this the right thread for stories like this one?

A woman in St. Cloud, Florida, woke up just before midnight Tuesday and fired a shot at a person she thought had broken into her home.

But the person wasn't an intruder; it was her 27-year-old daughter.

The woman fired one round, but police didn't say where the bullet hit the daughter. She died at a hospital.

Very sad.

[LawBeefaroni]

Is this the right thread for stories like this one?

A woman in St. Cloud, Florida, woke up just before midnight Tuesday and fired a shot at a person she thought had broken into her home.

But the person wasn't an intruder; it was her 27-year-old daughter.

The woman fired one round, but police didn't say where the bullet hit the daughter. She died at a hospital.

Very sad.

The woman's husband is a former undercover narcotics officer with the St. Cloud Police Department.

In a recording of the 911 call provided by police, the husband tells a dispatcher that his daughter has a pacemaker and heart problems. She had passed out, he says. He does not mention a gunshot.

What the hell?

More WTH:

After getting instructions to start CPR, the husband leaves the phone and a woman frantically talks to the dispatcher. The daughter is still breathing but very slowly, she says.

...

The mother is a 911 dispatcher for the Osceola County Sheriff's Office.

[Rip]

Denial.

Hard for people in the business to admit they too can make a human error that leads to tragedy.

Heartbreaking to learn a lesson in such a devastating way.

[LawBeefaroni]

Denial.

Hard for people in the business to admit they too can make a human error that leads to tragedy.

Heartbreaking to learn a lesson in such a devastating way.

Getting the dispatcher and paramedics critical information , like "gunshot wound", could be the difference between life and death. If anyone should know that, it's a dispatcher and a cop. Instead they prep them for a pacemaker failure? Terrible loss for them and I hope it's nothing more but it doesn't smell right.

[Rip]

Denial.

Hard for people in the business to admit they too can make a human error that leads to tragedy.

Heartbreaking to learn a lesson in such a devastating way.

Getting the dispatcher and paramedics critical information , like "gunshot wound", could be the difference between life and death. If anyone should know that, it's a dispatcher and a cop. Instead they prep them for a pacemaker failure? Terrible loss for them and I hope it's nothing more but it doesn't smell right.

Oh, it was a terrible decision no doubt, but a can understand a lot when you consider the shock of realizing you just shot your daughter. First responders are human.

By not smelling right I hope you mean people who knew better made stupid mistakes, not that something nefarious is going on. I'm onboard with the former but haven't seen anything that would make me think the latter.

[LawBeefaroni]

Denial.

Hard for people in the business to admit they too can make a human error that leads to tragedy.

Heartbreaking to learn a lesson in such a devastating way.

Getting the dispatcher and paramedics critical information , like "gunshot wound", could be the difference between life and death. If anyone should know that, it's a dispatcher and a cop. Instead they prep them for a pacemaker failure? Terrible loss for them and I hope it's nothing more but it doesn't smell right.

Oh, it was a terrible decision no doubt, but a can understand a lot when you consider the shock of realizing you just shot your daughter. First responders are human.

By not smelling right I hope you mean people who knew better made stupid mistakes, not that something nefarious is going on. I'm onboard with the former but haven't seen anything that would make me think the latter.

Your daughter is shot and bleeding out on the floor. You call 911 and don't tell them she was shot? Your spouse doesn't either? I'm not saying anything nefarious did happen but that sure is strange. Maybe it was just panic or maybe they had a good reason but knowing what we know, which admittedly isn't much, it seems strange.

[Rip]

Which is why I said denial. I would assume at that moment his subconscious was still trying to convince him what happened hadn't.

[Rip]

Warren County Sheriff Martin Pace confirms that a man killed during a Vicksburg home invasion was escaped murder suspect Rafael McCloud.

Vicksburg Police Chief Walter Armstrong said authorities were called around 7 a.m. to a house in northern Vicksburg, where a homeowner told police he had been attacked by a man who broke into his garage around 4 a.m.

"He was pretty much given the bum's rush by the suspect," Armstrong said.

Chief Armstrong said McCloud tied the family up but he husband was able to get free of his bonds. He was stabbed in the shoulder and shot the McCloud in the head. The husband's wound is non-life-threatening.

The hostages included the husband, wife and a four-year-old child. There are no other reports of injuries besides the husband and the suspect.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news ... /81577178/

[Rip]

Not a homeowner but as good a place as any I guess.

A customer at a 7-Eleven store outside Seattle shot and killed a masked man who attacked a clerk with an ax early Sunday.

Investigators said the shooting happened at the store in White Center at approximately 5:45 a.m. local time. Witnesses said the man entered the store and swung a hatchet toward the customer before turning his attention to the clerk.

As the assailant attacked, the customer pulled out a pistol and fired, hitting the suspect. The clerk suffered minor injuries to his stomach and the suspect was pronounced dead at the scene.

The customer who shot the suspect is described as a 60-year-old Seattle man who visits the store every morning to get coffee. His name was not immediately released.

Authorities said the man who shot the attacker had a concealed carry permit and likely would not face charges as a result of his action.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/14/cu ... cmp=hplnws

[Rip]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/08/gr ... tcmp=hpbt4

This 80-year-old great-granny got a gun and wasn’t afraid to use it.

Barb Moles shot and killed a home intruder who beat her husband with a crowbar and stabbed him with a knife. She now tells a local televison station she is “not just the typical granny.”

“You know, never in my whole life did I ever anticipate having to take another life -- especially at age 80,” Moles told KOMO-TV in Seattle, Wash., last week. “Give me a break here!”

Moles grabbed her gun, a .38-caliber pistol, when she saw her 75-year-old husband bleeding on the floor during a home invasion in their rural Sultan home around 8:30 p.m. on April 28.

Deputies said Steven Sheppard, 25, attacked Leland Moles after breaking into the couple’s home to steal drugs.

KOMO reported that when Sheppard encountered Barb Moles, he said one word: “Gun.”

Moles, a grandmother of eight and a great-grandmother of three, pulled the trigger four times. Three bullets hit the mark, KOMO reported.

“I was just intent upon stopping him,” she told the station. “I didn’t have any other thought in my head. I just knew I had to stop him.”

[hepcat]

Echo...echo...echo...echo....

[Exodor]

Maybe I should post one of these stories every time RIP posts one of his

Sadly there's no shortage of them.

[hepcat]

It's Rip. That's all you can say to yourself.

[Rip]

How about if I throw in some cats?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTDyW0NQAdI

[tjg_marantz]

Nope. Still stupid.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Isgrimnur]

Bama

Nathanial Johnson had grown tired of the burglaries at his mobile home in the small town of Leroy, Ala., about 60 miles north of Mobile.

So the 68-year-old decided to take matters into his own hands Friday night by springing a trap, Washington County Sheriff Richard Stringer told Fox affiliate WALA-TV.

In an attempt to make it look like nobody was home, Johnson parked his vehicle at a neighbor’s home and returned to his abode and waited, according to Al.com.

Sitting near his back door, Johnson told police, he turned the lights off and placed a car mirror near a window so he could see what was happening outside, according to WALA.

Johnson told authorities that someone knocked on his front door before midnight, Al.com reported. Johnson did not answer and continued to wait as he heard the person move to the back door and break the lock, Al.com reported.

Johnson told police that he confronted the person, prompting the suspected burglar to fall or jump off the back steps, Al.com reported.

Johnson subdued the man once he was on the ground and tied his hands behind his back, police told Al.com. The man was later identified as 31-year-old Cleveland Jones Gully.

Police said that after restraining Gully’s hands, Johnson placed duct tape over his mouth and tied the man to a tree using rudimentary materials — electrical wire, rope from a clothesline and masking tape.

“He began to tie him to the tree still in the standing-up position,” Stringer told WALA, noting that Johnson used “multiple layers of masking tape that he had wrapped around his mouth and all the way around his head.”

With the alleged intruder tied to a tree, Johnson told police, he returned to his neighbor’s house to alert police.

Gully “was still alive at that point, and there was no indication that he was dying,” Stringer told Al.com.

But when sheriff’s deputies arrived at Johnson’s home 10 minutes later, Stringer said, Gully was dead.
...
Stringer told AL.com that Gully — who lives nearby and had a reputation for breaking into homes — had cuts around his body from the wire used to tie him up but no other visible injuries. Johnson was not armed with a weapon at the time, Stringer said.
...
Stringer told WALA that Johnson is not facing criminal charges while authorities await the results of an autopsy that will determine the cause of Gully’s death.

Police held him in custody for 72 hours, the station reported.

“We will probably present it to the grand jury to see what they say about it,” he added.