Cops behaving badly

Everything else!

Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k

Post Reply
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Unagi »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Unagi wrote:
Punisher wrote:It's one more thing he needs to worry about that he shouldn't....
But the end of it is, he needs to deal with that and not attack/engage the interested/concerned citizen. The officer is freaking out on the citizen because he sucks.
Because having a person actively watching you that you don't know if he/she is armed, an accomplice to said crime, or just someone looking to ambush a cop is certainly the officer should ignore. /s
Not sure what you are saying here... I don't think that cop was 'worried about this guy in a criminal sense'.
And if he was, OK... does that mean the citizen is breaking a law?
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Isgrimnur »

The citizen doesn't have to be be breaking the law to be a point of concern for the cop.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

and I believe a case could be made for obstruction if he keeps distracting the officer... That being said, I do agree that the officer could have handled it better, but I am not willing to let the driver off the hook.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
KDH
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:04 pm
Location: California

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by KDH »

...
:coffee: ... 34 criminal cases tossed after body cam footage shows cop planting drugs
Maryland prosecutors have tossed 34 criminal cases and are re-examining dozens more in the aftermath of recent revelations that a Baltimore police officer accidentally recorded himself planting drugs in a trash-strewn alley.

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said that, in all, 123 cases are under review in the wake of a scandal in which one officer has been suspended and two others put on administrative duty. Body cam footage revealed nearly two weeks ago showed one of the officers planting drugs when he didn't realize his body cam was recording. The Baltimore Police Department's body cams, like many across the nation, capture footage 30 seconds before an officer presses the record button. The footage was turned over to defense attorneys as part of a drug prosecution—and that's when the misdeed was uncovered.

"We are dismissing those cases which relied exclusively on the credibility of these officers," Mosby told a news conference Friday. She said the dismissed cases, some of which have already been prosecuted, involved weapons and drugs. Another dozen cases will stand because of "independent corroborative evidence," she said.
.
Ain't nobody got time for that
.
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Good. Sad that the taxpayers yet again have to foot the bill, both in paying for the leave and paying for the inevitable lawsuits.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23583
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Pyperkub »

Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by GreenGoo »

Pyperkub wrote:Stunned
Presumably this is what Drumpf meant when he told the cops not to be too nice to suspects?
User avatar
The Meal
Posts: 27987
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: 2005 Stanley Cup Champion

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by The Meal »

I have a dumb story from a recent traffic stop which is interesting to me in light of Paingod's informative post and gameoverman's observation. I'm not sure it advances the topic at hand, but I did want to share it with OO for posterity. Feel free to scroll by if you don't give two squats about The Meal vs. Michigan State Trooper, District 5.

A few weeks ago I utilized the maintenance contract for my car by taking it into the dealership for an oil change. They informed me there was a recall based on failing crankshaft bearings and the process of changing this bearing meant that I'd have to drive away in a loaner vehicle. Turns out my bearing had failed, my crankshaft was grooved, and I was the recipient of a new engine in my 2015 vehicle. I was also set back about a week on heading out on a trip spanning six states two time zones. But I (eventually) successfully spent the first night on the road in Des Moines, IA (with travel coordination assistance provided by the loving and talented MHS, getting me into a hotel for the grand price of free). The next morning I proceeded through the rest of Iowa, through Illinois (though the route from Joiliet to the Indiana state line mimicked a Dennis The Menace cartoon in a most unpleasant manner). In describing the speed laws for my six state journey, I remarked that CO, NE, and MI all have commuter-friendly 75 MPH limits, IA and IL a less friendly 70 MPH limit, and IN a downright shameful 45 MPH limit (the entire ~30 mile trip through the Gary environs is a soul crushing construction zone). It was roughly 2pm Eastern Time when I made my way over the Michigan state line.

Roughly at the second New Buffalo exit, I saw a State Trooper in the median at a 45° facing traffic. I was in a pack of cars in a construction zone and noted we were all roughly 5 MPH below the posted limit. I was a bit surprised when I noted in my rear view mirror that the trooper was pulling out, but I figured that at some point everyone's done doing what they're doing and they need to go do something else. Turns out that was wishful thinking.

About a mile down the road his bubble came on in my rear view. I pulled over into the right hand lane, turned on my hazards, and proceeded another half mile or so until there was a break in the construction zone allowing for me to pull safely into the shoulder and give him safe access to my vehicle. I rolled down my windows, turned off my radio, killed my engine, and diligently left both hands on my wheel. He approached, and his opening line (through my passenger side window) was "Hi there, how are you doing today?" "Well, I had been doing pretty well until a few moments ago."

He informed me that he pulled me over due to expired tags and he "would be issuing me a citation for that infraction." There was no possibility presented that he had any leniency in the matter, it was a foregone conclusion that I'd be getting a ticket. I didn't love that outcome (I've been jobless since last March), but I accepted that this was a legitimate outcome for a mistake I had made. I did express slight disappointment: "I'm not thrilled, but I understand that you've got to follow your procedures." As gameoverman mentions in his story, the officer had a semi hostile demeanor at this point (I'll get a bit more into that in a moment). We went through my paperwork (yep, registration was only good through February 2017) and he had me exit my car. My windows were down and my cell phone was sitting on my passenger seat which left me slightly uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything about it.

He then had me step between our vehicles and asked if I had any weapons. I said that I had a pocket knife (a cheapo 2.5" blade that goes with me everywhere except airports) in my right front pocket and he fished around in that pocket for it. He then patted me down to make sure there were no more weapons. He proceeded to ask a few questions about my intentions. I was headed into Michigan for a family visit for about a week. He perked up at that and said I must have some luggage then for my visit. "Yes, sir." And his next line was, "You aren't bringing any of that Colorado product with you, are you?" "No, sir."

This was the crux of his stop. It turns out that I was going to be spending a big chunk of my vacation with a retired Livonia, MI PD Lt (37 years), and a 10+ year narcotics officer (Grand Rapids, MI). "That's what the district 5 troopers are there for. He was doing exactly what they're trained to do." Courtesy luggage check at the state line for out-of-state plates.

A couple of germane details. Colorado cars, unlike Michigan vehicles, have a front license plate which makes it stand out (though only differentiated from the still-frequent Illinois front-plate-bearing vehicles by the color and design). My car is a hatch back with tinted windows. When he stuck his head in my passenger window he could easily see a complete lack of luggage in the crew cabin (and a Valentine One radar detector hanging off my visor).

He continued to ramp up his aggressive behavior with me after our little conversation. "Please proceed to my truck, and get in the passenger side back seat." Ugh. Yeah, no door handles on the inside of that seat, no cushion (just low-slung hard plastic to rest my ass on), and quarter-inch plexi glass between me and the front seat (not even mesh). Now I'm really not thrilled about my cell phone and wide-open car. I would have been in my rights to ask if I had been arrested, but he was kind enough to tell me directly that I hadn't been. The "yet" was unspoken, but virtually hung in the air by the tone of his voice.

We spoke through the glass (NYC cabbies have a little window they can open, at least) at high decibels and I conveyed a bit more background for him. Had I ever been pulled over before? "Not very recently, but yes I have." (Funny story, last time I got pulled over, the officer heavily implied that I drive more recklessly on my way home. Probably told that story a time or two on here already.) So he should expect that my license comes up clean? "Absolutely." He ran my license and it came back as I promised. "So you're visiting family, that means you used to live in Michigan?" "Yes." "And you had a MI drivers license?" "Yes." He ran that as well, and it came back clean. At this point he proceeded to get out of his truck and spring me from the back seat.

My only-answering-his-questions with the bare minimum responses prevented him from getting any probable cause for going into my actual luggage. That didn't guarantee he wouldn't overstep his bounds, but I did everything right by not getting all chatty. I could've had a bale of pot in the back of my car, and he'd have never known. (It does come in bales, right?) This is exactly why he was using such provoking language and behavior with me. He was trying to give me a reason to "crack" and spill the beans about any illicit behavior I was potentially perpetrating.

After he ran my licenses and let me out of his truck, his entire demeanor changed. It was like we were old college buddies just short of back-slapping each other. He gave me my paperwork and knife back, and said "Take care of those tags when you get back to Colorado. I'm, of course, just giving you a warning today." In that moment, all I could do was internally steam that he made me thank him for doing me such a big favor. But our last bit of interaction was what steamed me up the most. I was ready to walk back and get behind the wheel, when he pointed out "Plain as day, you can see your tags say [2] and [17], so I had to pull you over." Which is great, except that he only could see my front plates from where he was sitting in the median, and wouldn't you know it, but the only tags on Colorado plates are on the back of the vehicle.

My LEO friends ensure me that his entire stop was done exactly how they're trained to do them, 100% by the book. I can only imagine how things would've gone had I refused to get out of my car, insisted on him telling me whether or not I was under arrest, and clammed up when he asked simple background questions about my upcoming plans. Still, I was smart about making sure the stop would be as comfortable for him as I could and answering his questions without embellishment. I think this is my tenth traffic stop in my years of driving (grand total: 1 speeding ticket, 1 at-fault accident, 7 slow-down-and-have-a-nice-days, and 1 no-cops-between-here-and-your-house-so-enjoy-your-ride-home).

Be smart. They're trying to do a job and you're trying to get away with a minimum of fuss. No reason to make it any tougher on them or yourself than it has to be.
Paingod wrote:What I advocate is "Resist Unlawful Orders" by knowing and exerting your rights when you interact with the police. So many of them rely heavily on violating basic rights within moments of a stop or interaction that it's disturbing. The second they tell you you're under arrest or attempt to arrest you, you need to comply or you're giving them easy ammo for additional charges. At that point you do nothing, say nothing, shut up, and ask for a lawyer.

Up to that point, I think it's good for them to know that people have rights. Depending on your area:
  • It's very likely that you're allowed to record police activity for your protection, or from a safe distance
    • Police like to push "Safe Distance" out to a point where recording becomes much less useful, but still keeps them honest
  • You don't need to present any kind of ID or give them your personal information just because they ask for it during a random interaction or non-criminal stop
    • If it's criminal or they're writing a ticket, obviously you comply. I think Utah and Arizona are okay with being "police states" and are exceptions
  • You never need to consent to searches
    • A Constitutional Right
  • You never need to answer a single question - simply say "I decline to answer any questions"
    • Anything you say will be used against you, even well-meaning statements, and you can screw yourself accidentally
  • You probably don't need to roll down your window more than a few inches to talk to them in a normal traffic stop
    • Asking you to roll your window down further is essentially asking you to consent to a cursory search
  • You don't need to get out of your car unless you're being arrested
    • Ask if you're being arrested. If not, decline to get out. If you are, comply.
  • You may not need to roll down your window -at all- during a random DUI checkpoint stop
    • In some places, this is seen as an illegal stop & search, and rolling down your window can give them a "whiff" of suspicion needed to give you DUI test
There's some more, but a lot of videos cover these things and show how to use them correctly to make sure the police don't just trash your rights at the start of an interaction. A good cop will understand what you're doing and work with it. A bad/ignorant cop will escalate and you should ask for their supervisor.
gameoverman wrote:One time I got pulled over for running a stop sign. It was near my home, a T intersection. The north/south street was the part I was on, with the east street being the I part of the T. I ran the sign because from the north or the south you can clearly see about 1/3 a block of that east bound street, and I saw the intersection was completely deserted, no cars or pedestrians. So I rolled right through without even slowing down.

Of course, my luck, there was a cop parked just far enough down that street that I couldn't see him. He pulled me over. After I gave him my paperwork, he seemed to decide something then he said "I can't give you a break. There's a school a few blocks down that way and there could be kids around".

My first inclination was to point out "I didn't ask you to cut me a break" but the talking shiat side of me lost to the self preserving side of me and I kept my mouth shut. I got a ticket, which I fought and won btw but that's a different story.

In some of these 'cops behaving badly' stories I can't help but notice the civilians didn't do or say the self preserving thing. Believe me, I really, REALLY wanted to wise off to that cop. The way he implied I was hoping he'd cut me a break irritated me, I very much wanted to point out that I didn't give a shiat what he had to say about anything. But you can't indulge that side of yourself unless you're willing to get your ass kicked or worse. In the end, I wasn't willing to flush my good day down the toilet.
"Better to talk to people than communicate via tweet." — Elontra
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13132
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Paingod »

The Meal wrote:I have a dumb story...
I completely get that your handling was the easiest way and probably the fastest way - but that stop was all kinds of wrong for your rights right from being stopped for having the wrong color plates to being detained without cause. I've heard something before about "If you don't use 'em, you lose 'em" and I think the general trend right now is citizens pushing back and police needing to be better trained - and it'll end up for the better in the long run.

FWIW, I'm polite in my stops too. I don't get in their faces about my rights, but I've also never been stopped without good cause - being polite is in my favor when I'm a leadfoot that often forgets to register my car - so I'm not sure how I'd go through a stop I felt was unwarranted. I roll my window down all the way and keep my hands visible, and answer questions clearly and concisely without flourishing details. I've only been ordered out of my car once - and it was an order, not a request.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Isgrimnur »

He pulled out to follow you because of the out of state plates. If he was behind you for a mile, he had plenty of time to see your expired plates for probable cause.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Z-Corn
Posts: 4894
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:16 pm

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Z-Corn »

Isgrimnur wrote:He pulled out to follow you because of the out of state plates. If he was behind you for a mile, he had plenty of time to see your expired plates for probable cause.

Out of state Colorado plates. With MI being a medical state there is a lot of traffic coming in from the rec states. This was nothing but a drug interdiction stop. It's pretty easy to set these up in MI with the whole state being a bottleneck.

Sucks that it happened to you though Meal...
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55315
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

The Meal wrote: Be smart. They're trying to do a job and you're trying to get away with a minimum of fuss. No reason to make it any tougher on them or yourself than it has to be.
For truth. There is no reason to do otherwise. They're trying to do their job and they aren't going to make a policy change based on an uncooperative stop. If you have a problem with police treatment you take it up the proper channels. You can even protest and be civilly disobedient if you want to, but not on a traffic stop.

Paingod wrote:
The Meal wrote:I have a dumb story...
I completely get that your handling was the easiest way and probably the fastest way - but that stop was all kinds of wrong for your rights right from being stopped for having the wrong color plates to being detained without cause.
There was nothing wrong with the stop. He had expired tags and he got pulled over for expired tags. How the trooper picked him out of a line of cars doesn't matter, he pulled him over for the tags.

Paingod wrote:
I've heard something before about "If you don't use 'em, you lose 'em" and I think the general trend right now is citizens pushing back and police needing to be better trained - and it'll end up for the better in the long run.
Bluster and confrontation is often the last resort of someone with something to hide. It may also a way to force change but with the risks involved the fact that an officer isn't going to know whether you're a criminal or an activist citizen, it's probably not the best way.


I have a friend who has gotten through TSA with recreational cocaine in his wallet purely by bluster. He also got out of a search that turned up weed in his car. He left the door open while he went into the gas station and the officers invited themselves into his car. He argued, on the spot, that it was illegal search and they were so flustered they just escorted him out of their jurisdiction. But he also spent 3 years in a state prison and is more street-wise than most cops. It helps that he's a white maile, 52 years-old, and overweight. Not initially threatening at all. Point is, the confrontational approach does work (sometimes) but it's really only useful if you have something to hide and it's worth the risk of creating a new reason for arrest.



A quick, fun story about District 1. Way back in the day a bunch of my friends were deadheads. I wasn't much of a fan but tagged along to a lot of shows. One year there was a show in Cincinnati or somewhere else in Ohio and the next two shows were in Pontiac, Michigan. So I took my van down to Ohio, went to the show and drove north with my friends. A few miles across the border it was like a highway scene out of Iraq I. There were cars stopped all along the road, with officers dumping their contents out and hippies were sitting with head in hands. I got nervous because I knew that at least someone in the van had some drugs but I kept on. Made it all the way to Pontiac with no problems and it dawned on me that it was most likely because of the Michigan plates. Certainly not because it was a red conversion van with tinted windows. Also confirmed my belief that you should never have any type of bumper sticker on your car. Every deadhead sticker on northbound 23 and 75 got pulled over that day.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Rip »

A little voice inside my head said don't look back, you can never look back......
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Unagi »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Paingod wrote:
The Meal wrote:I have a dumb story...
I completely get that your handling was the easiest way and probably the fastest way - but that stop was all kinds of wrong for your rights right from being stopped for having the wrong color plates to being detained without cause.
There was nothing wrong with the stop. He had expired tags and he got pulled over for expired tags. How the trooper picked him out of a line of cars doesn't matter, he pulled him over for the tags.
But he clearly left his perch only because of the Colorado plates.
There does seem to be a little bit of a profile/ driving-while-coloradian aspect to it... but the expired tags are, I suppose, the only reason he was pulled over... but he was certainly put under heightened scrutiny for doing nothing illegal (having Colorado plates). I guess there isn't anything illegal to that, but it seems wrong.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55315
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Unagi wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Paingod wrote:
The Meal wrote:I have a dumb story...
I completely get that your handling was the easiest way and probably the fastest way - but that stop was all kinds of wrong for your rights right from being stopped for having the wrong color plates to being detained without cause.
There was nothing wrong with the stop. He had expired tags and he got pulled over for expired tags. How the trooper picked him out of a line of cars doesn't matter, he pulled him over for the tags.
But he clearly left his perch only because of the Colorado plates. There does seem to be a little bit of a profile/ driving-while-coloradian aspect to it...
Driving-while-out-of-state. I hate that Illinois requires front plates too. But we don't know 100% that he pulled out because of that. He may have just decided it was time to get behind a lot of cars and check for tags.
Unagi wrote: but the expired tags are, I suppose, the only reason he was pulled over... but he was certainly put under heightened scrutiny for doing nothing illegal (having Colorado plates). I guess there isn't anything illegal to that, but it seems wrong.
It does seem a bit wrong but the thing is, aside from witnessing a crime, there is no other way for cops to decide to scrutinize a car. They have to play the odds. Unfortunately that also leads to racial and other verboten types of profiling, types that are often based on fallacious odds anyway.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Rip »

Unagi wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Paingod wrote:
The Meal wrote:I have a dumb story...
I completely get that your handling was the easiest way and probably the fastest way - but that stop was all kinds of wrong for your rights right from being stopped for having the wrong color plates to being detained without cause.
There was nothing wrong with the stop. He had expired tags and he got pulled over for expired tags. How the trooper picked him out of a line of cars doesn't matter, he pulled him over for the tags.
But he clearly left his perch only because of the Colorado plates.
There does seem to be a little bit of a profile/ driving-while-coloradian aspect to it... but the expired tags are, I suppose, the only reason he was pulled over... but he was certainly put under heightened scrutiny for doing nothing illegal (having Colorado plates). I guess there isn't anything illegal to that, but it seems wrong.

You don't need probable cause to select what vehicles you scrutinize. Even if you were going to question his selecting that car, being from out of state is a perfectly sensible and reasonable criteria.

It wouldn't even make any sense to suggest that a cop needs to see something illegal to select what vehicles to scrutinize because they should always stop anyone seen doing something illegal. You end up with there being no buffer of scrutiny not requiring a stop.
User avatar
naednek
Posts: 10866
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 pm

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by naednek »

KDH wrote:...
:coffee: ... 34 criminal cases tossed after body cam footage shows cop planting drugs
Maryland prosecutors have tossed 34 criminal cases and are re-examining dozens more in the aftermath of recent revelations that a Baltimore police officer accidentally recorded himself planting drugs in a trash-strewn alley.

Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said that, in all, 123 cases are under review in the wake of a scandal in which one officer has been suspended and two others put on administrative duty. Body cam footage revealed nearly two weeks ago showed one of the officers planting drugs when he didn't realize his body cam was recording. The Baltimore Police Department's body cams, like many across the nation, capture footage 30 seconds before an officer presses the record button. The footage was turned over to defense attorneys as part of a drug prosecution—and that's when the misdeed was uncovered.

"We are dismissing those cases which relied exclusively on the credibility of these officers," Mosby told a news conference Friday. She said the dismissed cases, some of which have already been prosecuted, involved weapons and drugs. Another dozen cases will stand because of "independent corroborative evidence," she said.
And it's happened again, well prior to the first reported incident...

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/video-app ... -evidence/
hepcat - "I agree with Naednek"
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

For the Colorado story, it is also possible that he had an automatic plate reader which flagged the expired tags..
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 21196
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Grifman »

This is not a cop behaving badly, but I think shows why cops can be so nervous about non-compliance and hands not being free and clear:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/11 ... -vstop.cnn

I'm just glad he survived.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Grifman wrote:This is not a cop behaving badly, but I think shows why cops can be so nervous about non-compliance and hands not being free and clear:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/11 ... -vstop.cnn

I'm just glad he survived.
Very glad he survived, but I wonder how the current climate affected his actions.. suspect with hands in pockets, not responding to verbal commands or threat of taser and the cop lets it go on for a decent amount of time... I wonder if he was concerned about escalating...
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 63524
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Daehawk »

Fuck tasers in that situation..shoot the bastard. This is what happens because of the way the country is.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Daehawk wrote:Fuck tasers in that situation..shoot the bastard. This is what happens because of the way the country is.
Don't think that was an option in this situation. He already had the taser out when the other guy started shooting.. At that point the run option was probably best.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12295
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Moliere »

Cops do a roadside vaginal search over .02 ounces of marijuana

How long is this nonsense going to continue?
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55315
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Punisher wrote:
Grifman wrote:This is not a cop behaving badly, but I think shows why cops can be so nervous about non-compliance and hands not being free and clear:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/11 ... -vstop.cnn

I'm just glad he survived.
Very glad he survived, but I wonder how the current climate affected his actions.. suspect with hands in pockets, not responding to verbal commands or threat of taser and the cop lets it go on for a decent amount of time... I wonder if he was concerned about escalating...
The current climate certainly does matter. Not just acting tentatively but in some cases not acting at all.



There's a term for the latter here, "stay fetal.". Basically, don't engage, no pro-active policing and go home safe.

Cannot blame them at all but the criminals know this and act with impunity. Sucks for the law-abiding populace.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Sectoid
Posts: 3712
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:35 am
Location: Cydonia, Mars
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Sectoid »

Moliere wrote:Cops do a roadside vaginal search over .02 ounces of marijuana

How long is this nonsense going to continue?
This is utter BS. In Texas, possession of 7grams (or a 1/4 oz.) is a Class B Misdemeanor. What they did was assault someone over a roach. Fire them and charge them.
(V)(;,,;)(V) - Why not Zoidberg?
Model Mayhem # 641920
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 14950
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by ImLawBoy »

Lorini wrote:Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
There's plenty of discussion of it in R&P. It's in the "Confederate Flag" thread.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Lorini wrote:Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
There's plenty of discussion of it in R&P. It's in the "Confederate Flag" thread.
I don't post in R&P. It's fine, thanks for the response.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55315
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Lorini wrote:Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
What was their response? I haven't seen details but I heard they were very standoffish. Which I would attribute to all the firearms on display.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Sectoid
Posts: 3712
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:35 am
Location: Cydonia, Mars
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Sectoid »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Lorini wrote:Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
There's plenty of discussion of it in R&P. It's in the "Confederate Flag" thread.
Image
(V)(;,,;)(V) - Why not Zoidberg?
Model Mayhem # 641920
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Isgrimnur »

Sectoid wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
Lorini wrote:Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
There's plenty of discussion of it in R&P. It's in the "Confederate Flag" thread.
Image
HTTP Error 404. The requested resource is not found.
Don't be a dirty hotlinker.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Sectoid
Posts: 3712
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:35 am
Location: Cydonia, Mars
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Sectoid »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Sectoid wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
Lorini wrote:Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
There's plenty of discussion of it in R&P. It's in the "Confederate Flag" thread.
Image
HTTP Error 404. The requested resource is not found.
Don't be a dirty hotlinker.
I tried imgur-ing it, but it didn't work. Had to save it locally and re-up it to imgur.
Image
(V)(;,,;)(V) - Why not Zoidberg?
Model Mayhem # 641920
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Lorini wrote:Hey guys can we discuss the police response to Charlottesville? Or is that too political?
What was their response? I haven't seen details but I heard they were very standoffish. Which I would attribute to all the firearms on display.
OK (you'll stop ImLawBoy from banning me for answering? :wink: ) basically there were many reports of people being assaulted while the police watched. The police say they arrested people but it apparently was pretty clear that if they made an effort to keep the two groups apart it failed completely. Keeping the two protesting groups apart is normally done during these types of gatherings. Many people (on both protesting sides) say they felt the police did nothing at all to stop the violence. And yes with VA being an open carry state, things could have gotten out of hand quickly.

My question for discussion was, given that they had failed to keep the groups apart, what should have been next? In the past, at least here in LA, when the police jump in and start trying to establish order, the violence gets even worse. Police are supposed to protect people but on the face of it they didn't. Or did they?

Edit: sorry posted after the image
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55315
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Hockey rules I guess? Don't get in the middle of willing participants, just watch and make sure no one gets seriously injured. At the risk of making it worse they just let the principals wear each other out.


From what I've read my, though, the big difference was the obvipus presence of firearms and other weapons, as well as shields and plate carriers, in the crowds. Can't blame the cops.

Sadly I think this is the blueprint for future protests. I hate local gun laws but at least with no open carry these groups will think twice before coming here.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Lorini
Posts: 8282
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Well they are planning a march on Google (delayed for a few weeks) so the lack of open carry laws may not stop them. The police are already planning on how to handle them and the counter protesters up in Mountain View and down here in the Los Angeles area. I do hope more people can be protected in these marches than were protected in VA, noting that there's not much that can be done about cars ramming people.

Edit: Apparently they also plan to march in Berkeley but the mayor says they don't have a permit. Last Berkeley march got overtaken by anarchists who are a force in the area.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55315
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

The lack of open carry won't stop all of them but it will keep the tacticool soldier wannabes at home. If they can't hide behind a rifle they won't bother showing up.


But I agree, you get two side that are looking for a fight and it will probably happen. Only an overwhelming police presence can stop it.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Holman »

Trump to reverse ban on local police using military equipment.
The Trump administration will now allow local police forces to take and use armored vehicles, high-caliber weapons and other kinds of heavy equipment that were once used in the military, USA Today reported Sunday.

The Obama administration initially banned the practice after police in Ferguson, Mo. were heavily criticized for using the equipment against protestors in the wake of the shooting of Michael Brown three years ago.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions is set to address the Fraternal Order of Police Monday, where it’s believed he might unveil the new policy.

"Assets that would otherwise be scrapped can be re-purposed to help state, local and tribal law enforcement better protect public safety and reduce crime,” administration officials wrote in a document obtained by USA Today.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Isgrimnur »

Obama didn't ban the use of it, he merely stopped the transfer of military surplus to the police. 'TAKE and use'
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12295
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Moliere »

Detective approaches motorcyclist, gun out, without identifying himself. Scary.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55315
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Moliere wrote:Detective approaches motorcyclist, gun out, without identifying himself. Scary.
Wonder what he was really looking for. He completely changed demeanor, including holstering his fin, once he saw the ID.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
Post Reply