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Cops behaving badly

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Paingod
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Paingod »

Alefroth wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:27 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:51 pm
Why did she call the cops and not the paramedics? Or did she just call 911?
She called 911. I would assume people don't have separate numbers for EMT, police, fire, etc.
I live in a podunk nowhere, and we still have different non-emergency numbers for each branch of services.

A lot of people just call 911 by default, hoping that whatever the problem is will be solved by the dispatcher. The dispatcher, though, isn't there and simply sends the highest response available. If there's even a whiff of danger EMT's won't go in until it's been made safe by police.

I'm more and more of the mind that if the response is always going to be to send a squad car, that car needs to be half cop and half social worker. If they can afford armored personnel carriers and full tactical assault gear, the police have the funds for it.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Sue asked for a CIT squad. Police response after the incident was that all officers are "CIT trained." That's a bullshit answer.
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Paingod
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Paingod »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:16 am
Police response after the incident was that all officers are "CIT trained."
If it's true, the level of training needs to be questioned. A 30-minute webinar every 5 years can be called "training"...
2020 has been the longest century in recent history, and we're still not done with it.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".
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Brian
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Brian »

dbt1949 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:24 am
Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".
Ah, I think that's where the confusion comes from.
Remember, the manuals were written quite a few years ago so in this context "boy" means "any black man of color" see also: Negro.

(I really hope I shouldn't need the sarcasm font here.)
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Paingod wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:30 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:16 am
Police response after the incident was that all officers are "CIT trained."
If it's true, the level of training needs to be questioned. A 30-minute webinar every 5 years can be called "training"...
Yeah, that was my point in the other thread. They're getting around the want/need for BH providers by "training" Police officers in BH. It's not the same thing and not adequate. I have my doubts that a psychologist or even LCSW in every car is feasible but have no problem seeing it attempted. Let's see some data and find out.
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Paingod
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:42 am
Let's see some data and find out.
Data is one of the things the police unions fear and will fight to prevent. Mold hates sunlight.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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To the man who has only a gun every problem looks like a fleeing criminal.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Brian wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:30 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:24 am
Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".
Ah, I think that's where the confusion comes from.
Remember, the manuals were written quite a few years ago so in this context "boy" means "any black man of color" see also: Negro.

(I really hope I shouldn't need the sarcasm font here.)
Just in case this post confused anyone who didn't read the article, the boy in question is not black.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Paingod »

Lorini wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:27 am
Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.
I think the problem here is that they sent a hammer because someone though there might be a nail, but wasn't sure. Then the hammer hit the window to try and clean it. It's more of the same with either 911 not sending the right tools for the job or simply being given only hammers for every job. It's a textbook case for defund/reform.

I don't think this is the second, or third, or fourth time we've heard a similar story where police are called specifically to help someone in a mental crisis and they respond with bullets.

The most insane one I think I had read about was where there was a social worker right there, trying to calm things down and the police simply decided that wasn't good enough and ended up shooting the social worker in the leg.
2016 News Article wrote:When a 23-year-old autistic man carrying a toy truck wandered from a mental health center out into the street Monday, a worker there named Charles Kinsey went to retrieve him.

A few minutes later the autistic man was still sitting cross-legged blocking the roadway while playing with the small, rectangular white toy. And Kinsey was prone on the ground next to him — a bullet from an assault rifle fired by a police officer having struck his leg.

“He throws his hands up in the air and says, ‘Don’t shoot me.’ They say lie on the ground, so he does,” Kinsey’s attorney Hilton Napoleon said Wednesday. “He’s on his back with his hands in the air trying to convince the other guy to lie down. It doesn’t make any sense.”

The video, taken before the officer fired his weapon, shows Kinsey on his back with his hands in the air telling police he didn’t have a weapon and asking them not to fire. At one point the autistic man appears to yell at Kinsey to shut up. A second brief video shows officers who are carrying rifles physically patting down Kinsey and the autistic man while they are lying on the ground.

Kinsey said when he asked the officer why he fired his weapon, the cop responded, “I don’t know.”

By Wednesday, North Miami police hadn’t offered much of an explanation. Assistant Police Chief Neal Cuevas said the investigation has been turned over to the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Freyland »

Lorini wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:27 am
Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.
Totally agree with your post, except it does matter to keep the narrative on track with the story being discussed. As noted, was just clarifying.
I don't remember where I read this, Cort, maybe it was in the last patch notes, but they said the UAZ really handles the best when... the wheels are actually touching the ground.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Brian »

Freyland wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:40 am
Brian wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:30 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:24 am
Right there on page one of the CIT manual...."if a young boy with emotional problems gives you trouble you are to gun him down".
Ah, I think that's where the confusion comes from.
Remember, the manuals were written quite a few years ago so in this context "boy" means "any black man of color" see also: Negro.

(I really hope I shouldn't need the sarcasm font here.)
Just in case this post confused anyone who didn't read the article, the boy in question is not black.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse anybody. I thought it was pretty straightforward.

"Boy" being a frequent term used derogitorily by racists when addressing black men coupled with the police having an abominable record in their dealings with the black citizens vs white in that, all too often, the cops will just shoot a black person (with apparent impunity) while going to sometimes extraordinary steps to not shoot a white person.
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dbt1949
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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We have sarcasm fonts?
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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No, we don't have a sarcasm font. Why would we?
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Paingod
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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I tHoUgHt ThIs WaS tHe SaRcAsM fOnT.
2020 has been the longest century in recent history, and we're still not done with it.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Paingod wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:21 pm
I tHoUgHt ThIs WaS tHe SaRcAsM fOnT.
Close - that's serial killer.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by $iljanus »

Lorini wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:27 am
Doesn't matter. Disabled people matter, mentally ill people matter, and when you're trying to get help in a critical situation you need help. And if the police can't help, they should not show up.
I'm heavily involved in my church's special needs ministry which ministers to families that attend our church and have a special needs child. We either have specialized programming for those children or we facilitate trying to integrate them into the regular Sunday school class with support. Around the time of yet another police shooting we were concerned about how emergency personnel, especially police officers would react if the church had to be evacuated and there was an interaction between one of our students and the police. We have two African-American students who are in their teens and can be somewhat excitable under stress. One of the students is pretty tall and muscular, a gentle giant, but if there was an evacuation we would need to be extra patient with him. Our fear is that if he wasn't compliant due to overstimulation or an unfamiliar stranger barking instructions to him there would be a misunderstanding and, well, we didn't dance around our fear that he would be shot or tasered. Already there can be an issue with law enforcement being ill equipped to handle someone with special needs under stress. But when you add in being black, and being tall, and being large you become very frightened for them.

We started by having lanyards for all our students to wear during an evacuation outlining their status but it's not guaranteed that we would be able to get one on a child as we were leaving the building and in a situation there's no guarantee it would even be read. It was more for if the student were to be separated during evacuation. We also wanted to talk with the local PD about our program to let them know that we had special needs children attending our church. Then our ministry director had to move due to a job relocation, I took the job for a short while then had to help a new person get up to speed in the position. Was meaning to get back to talking with the local PD but then Covid-19 hit. We're not scheduled to have people physically back in church until Jan but I figured it was a good time to shore up our protocols on evacuating our special needs kids and having a conversation with the police department as to what kind of training they have in regards to dealing with people with special needs. We tried talking to our church's security head pre-covid who has good intentions but I think put a bit more trust in our police acting appropriately. I don't see our town police abusing their power but with the recent conversations we've been having about race I think I'll be in a better position to argue that we need to have some dialogue with the police department about our special needs population and ask about the type of training they have. At the very least suggest that they let us take the lead with the child.

Not meaning to be melodramatic, but I will put myself in front of one our students if it will make an officer think twice about taking the shot (and praying mightily that it wouldn't come to that). Or he might take the shot anyway. But I would rather engage in a constructive discussion beforehand and avoid all such unpleasantness.
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dbt1949
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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I hear a lot of police unions saying how police officers were trained to do these misdeeds they get caught doing.
Gillions of people were in the military and taught to kill. Should it be okay for them to start killing civilians?
I know that's extreme but just because you were taught to do something doesn't make it right.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Private Prisons run by ICE (cops-adjacent?):
Several legal advocacy groups on Monday filed a whistleblower complaint on behalf of a nurse at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) detention center documenting “jarring medical neglect” within the facility, including a refusal to test detainees for the novel coronavirus and an exorbitant rate of hysterectomies being performed on immigrant women...

...“Recently, a detained immigrant told Project South that she talked to five different women detained at ICDC between October and December 2019 who had a hysterectomy done,” the complaint stated. “When she talked to them about the surgery, the women ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’ The woman told Project South that it was as though the women were ‘trying to tell themselves it’s going to be OK.’”

“When I met all these women who had had surgeries, I thought this was like an experimental concentration camp. It was like they’re experimenting with our bodies,” the detainee said.

According to Wooten, ICDC consistently used a particular gynecologist – outside the facility – who almost always opted to remove all or part of the uterus of his female detainee patients.

“Everybody he sees has a hysterectomy—just about everybody,” Wooten said, adding that, “everybody’s uterus cannot be that bad.”
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Pyperkub »

As usual, Sheriff's Depts seem to be the worst offenders - steak dinners for killing a man with Tasers - black of course.
Williamson County sheriff’s office leaders rewarded deputies who used force on the job with steakhouse gift cards, according to two former employees, one of whom made the admission to Texas Rangers investigating the agency’s aggressive tactics.

Among the deputies who received gift cards to places such as Logan’s Roadhouse were J.J. Johnson and Zach Camden, the officers involved in the March 2019 death of Javier Ambler II. Officers used their Tasers on the Black 40-year-old father four times as he gasped that he had a heart condition and could not breathe.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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