I have trouble taking an article seriously when it refers to cops as terrorists. It tells me that the author is horribly biased and out to prove his point, not discuss the facts.Moliere wrote:How Many Cops Need To Be Fired Based On These Facts?
Detective Payne should be ARRESTED. He is a criminal. We have video evidence of his crime. Payne doesn’t just need to be fired, he needs to go to JAIL.
But who is going to arrest him? Another cop?
See, if you want to solve this problem (and I’ll note, YOU DON’T, because secretly you’re willing to suffer the occasional murder and constitutional violation so long as you feel “safe”), you have to arrest ALL THE OTHER COPS in this story that aided and abetted Payne’s behavior.
Cops behaving badly
Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k
- Blackhawk
- Posts: 43804
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Southwest Indiana
Re: Cops behaving badly
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Punisher
- Posts: 4042
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
So, this cop was wrong, so because of that, the writer wants to commit more wrongs by firing and arresting people before the investigation?I don’t see one bad apple, I see at least five officers who need to lose their jobs and one who needs to be put in jail, and that’s BEFORE a thorough investigation into the department’s training and procedures has been conducted.
Here are my thoughts...
1) It appears that Payne and his supervisor were going off bad data, IE a law that had changed and they somehow did not know it. (Training issue)
2) IF the law had not changed, then they would be completely in the right, although still not a good way to handle it. They do have some discretion.
3) Not sure what the big deal/hurry was to get the victim's blood anyway. He was hit head on by a suspect on the run.
4) I'm not sure how I feel about firing if it is a training issue. It is the departments responsibility to make sure it's officers are properly trained. If it was a training issue, IE they were never re-trained when the law changed, I can't see either of them getting fired, but they could maybe get a reprimand for "poor" judgement, but even that might not fly if they believed they were right through training.
5) If it is determined that they did have proper training and were informed of the changes, then I can see an argument for firing.
6) The nurse can still sue/press charges I believe.. depending on the training outcome, charges might not stick, but suing the department/city would..
and as I will always say, the second you are told you are under arrest, is the second you stop arguing about it. that is no longer the time to debate. take the arrest and if it is wrong, deal with it in court. I do realize, that it can be hard to do so in many situations though.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
- Moliere
- Posts: 12340
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
- Location: Walking through a desert land
Re: Cops behaving badly
Reminds me of the t-shirt: the beatings will stop when morale improves.Punisher wrote:and as I will always say, the second you are told you are under arrest, is the second you stop arguing about it. that is no longer the time to debate. take the arrest and if it is wrong, deal with it in court. I do realize, that it can be hard to do so in many situations though.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
- Little Raven
- Posts: 8608
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:26 am
- Location: Austin, TX
Re: Cops behaving badly
If the article is to be believed, the law changed 10 years ago. That's not a training issue...that's gross incompetence.Punisher wrote: (They didn't since the law had changed, but both may then point to a training issue).
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
\/ window into Outside Over There."
-
- Posts: 24795
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
The Utah case is interesting for a couple of reasons. One - watch the full video and it is clear the officer was way off the page. He was abusive and out of control from the get go. Why? Hard to say but I do suspect it was to protect another officer. Why? The victim was badly injured because a police chase led to someone hitting him head on. I believe there is a better than even chance that they wanted dirt on the driver in case he pressed charges/sued for the chase. A pure guess but I feel it does fit the facts as we know it now. Otherwise the whole thing doesn't make a ton of sense.
- tjg_marantz
- Posts: 14688
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:54 pm
- Location: Queen City, SK
Re: Cops behaving badly
That's actually exactly what's going on. It's an attempted cover up from the get go. Btw, the driver he's trying to get blood from to hopefully find drugs or alcohol... off duty cop from Idaho. His Idaho department has issued a thanks to the nurse for protecting his rights.malchior wrote:The Utah case is interesting for a couple of reasons. One - watch the full video and it is clear the officer was way off the page. He was abusive and out of control from the get go. Why? Hard to say but I do suspect it was to protect another officer. Why? The victim was badly injured because a police chase led to someone hitting him head on. I believe there is a better than even chance that they wanted dirt on the driver in case he pressed charges/sued for the chase. A pure guess but I feel it does fit the facts as we know it now. Otherwise the whole thing doesn't make a ton of sense.
Mazel tov.
Home of the Akimbo AWPs
- Punisher
- Posts: 4042
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
Well, it could be gross incompetence by the training officer... Typically officers don't do training on their own... I'm sure it will come out one way or the other during the investigation...Little Raven wrote:If the article is to be believed, the law changed 10 years ago. That's not a training issue...that's gross incompetence.Punisher wrote: (They didn't since the law had changed, but both may then point to a training issue).
and I thought I read it was only a year old change somewhere.. not sure though..
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
- Blackhawk
- Posts: 43804
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Southwest Indiana
Re: Cops behaving badly
Unless the department is horribly incompetent and has never spoken to a lawyer, those officers all have a paper on file somewhere confirming that they received training in the new version of the law.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Punisher
- Posts: 4042
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
yes. IF they did.. It is not unheard of for departments to miss a training opportunity.Blackhawk wrote:Unless the department is horribly incompetent and has never spoken to a lawyer, those officers all have a paper on file somewhere confirming that they received training in the new version of the law.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23648
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: Cops behaving badly
Unfortunately, to minorities, the uneven application of the law can feel like being terrorized.Blackhawk wrote:I have trouble taking an article seriously when it refers to cops as terrorists. It tells me that the author is horribly biased and out to prove his point, not discuss the facts.Moliere wrote:How Many Cops Need To Be Fired Based On These Facts?
Detective Payne should be ARRESTED. He is a criminal. We have video evidence of his crime. Payne doesn’t just need to be fired, he needs to go to JAIL.
But who is going to arrest him? Another cop?
See, if you want to solve this problem (and I’ll note, YOU DON’T, because secretly you’re willing to suffer the occasional murder and constitutional violation so long as you feel “safe”), you have to arrest ALL THE OTHER COPS in this story that aided and abetted Payne’s behavior.
Brown in Arpaio's America? Any contact with the law could end with you and your family in a internment center if you don't have your papers.
Black in America? Your chances of being shot and becoming a statistic seem to be a lot higher than they should be, and the data supports the fact that the law will come down heavier than it will on others. Any contact with the police is to be feared.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Blackhawk
- Posts: 43804
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Southwest Indiana
Re: Cops behaving badly
No doubt, no question. But a piece written solely to attack an enemy the author has predetermined are collectively guilty still isn't a valuable source of much of anything other than seeing the perspective of one extreme viewpoint.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23648
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: Cops behaving badly
Given that the law is supposed to apply equally to everyone, I think, while hyperbolic, there is enough there that it isn't an extreme viewpoint for some to hold.Blackhawk wrote:No doubt, no question. But a piece written solely to attack an enemy the author has predetermined are collectively guilty still isn't a valuable source of much of anything other than seeing the perspective of one extreme viewpoint.
Also, it's getting worse, not better.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Cops behaving badly
What would be really good and I think helpful is that if the press would report on the expected tax payer payment for these egregious police behaviors. The city of Los Angeles pays out over $50M a year because of lawsuits based on people successfully suing the police department. LA could certainly use more parks, fewer potholes and a lot of other stuff, but nope, the money goes to people harmed by the police. I wish this was more discussed in the media, people need to understand how much these bad policepeople cost them.
Black Lives Matter
- Moliere
- Posts: 12340
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
- Location: Walking through a desert land
Re: Cops behaving badly
Utah Nurse's Abuse by Police Detective Goes Viral; Does the Outrage Actually Mean Anything?
On Monday, hospital officials revealed that they were so appalled by Payne's behavior that they've changed their rules to control how and where police officers may seek access. (This policy shift had apparently already happened before the publicity caused by the videos.) Police are no longer permitted in patient care areas, and they'll have to go higher up the supervisory ladder when they have requests rather than dealing directly with the nurses.
To see how little support Payne is receiving even from other authority figures, consider the reaction from one of the employers of the comatose patient, William Gray of Idaho. Gray is a trucker, but he's also a reserve police officer with the Rigby Police in Idaho. As Wubbels' story was going viral, the Rigby Police posted a message on Facebook that, in no uncertain terms, defended the nurse's decision to resist Payne's orders...
...
Possibly not getting enough attention in all this is Wubbels' concern that what happened to her might not be an isolated incident. I don't mean the arrest; I mean nurses being pressured to assist police in drawing blood when the cops don't have warrants and the patients are not consenting. In interviews since she's gone public (such as this one with KUTV2), Wubbels has said that her original goal in releasing the videos was to reach nurses and police in rural areas of Utah to "get the education out there" about appropriate conduct in these cases.
At Reason we have regularly documented brutal police searches. Cops frequently run roughshod over citizens' Fourth Amendment rights in zealous attempts to get evidence of even the pettiest of crimes. It would not come as a surprise if other nurses felt like they had little choice but to cooperate with police demands to draw blood, even after the Supreme Court ruled a year ago that a warrant was required under such circumstances.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Cops behaving badly
Being able to easily video these encounters has alerted us to how badly some cops do behave, and that's the first step to changing what's going on.
Black Lives Matter
- Max Peck
- Posts: 13734
- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole
Re: Cops behaving badly
Is it a "training issue" when police officers can't tell the difference between a 5'10" 170lb adult male and a 5'2" 115lb teenage girl?
Teen girl files claim against police who mistook her for a black male suspect and punched her
Teen girl files claim against police who mistook her for a black male suspect and punched her
It had been a sweltering Sunday when, on a bike ride back from shopping for a Father’s Day gift, Hargrove was suddenly stopped by police officers in Bakersfield, Calif.
The officers had been looking for a suspect — described as a 25- to 30-year-old, bald black man standing 5 feet 10 and weighing about 170 pounds — who had threatened several people with a machete at a nearby grocery store, according to a police report.
Thinking she was that man — and despite her protests — the officers seized on the 5-foot-2, 115-pound Hargrove, in an altercation that escalated until police punched her in the mouth, unleashed a K-9 dog on her and arrested her. It wasn’t until officers placed her in their patrol car that they asked Hargrove’s name and realized she was female — and thus not the suspect they were looking for.
Though police later admitted it was a case of mistaken identity, Hargrove was charged with resisting or delaying an officer and aggravated assault on an officer. It wasn’t until August that those charges against her were dropped, her attorney said.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
-
- Posts: 3050
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:03 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
Given the apparent absence of injuries, it seems even the dog knew they had the wrong person.
Sims 3 and signature unclear.
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Cops behaving badly
Because a camera and a gun look so similar! Cop shoots newspaper photographer because he thought the camera (on a tripod no less) was a gun.
Black Lives Matter
-
- Posts: 3050
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:03 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
I'm seriously hoping the quote, "was setting up my camera and tripod" equals 'his tripod was leaning up against the car and looked like a rifle as he was examining his potentially gun-like camera'. I completely respect an officer being anxious about a third party showing up during a traffic stop, and the article suggests it was dark, but I'm struggling with him opening fire without even some sort of verbage or command at the photographer.Lorini wrote:Because a camera and a gun look so similar! Cop shoots newspaper photographer because he thought the camera (on a tripod no less) was a gun.
Sims 3 and signature unclear.
- Paingod
- Posts: 13135
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am
Re: Cops behaving badly
Thank god he didn't have crutches instead.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
-
- Posts: 3898
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:25 pm
- Location: Just outside the ATL
Re: Cops behaving badly
Holy shit I know Officer Abbott. I grew up and still live in Cobb County. He used to work high school football games at my school. He busted me twice for underage drinking at parties. He let me go one time though. Never would have imagined him to be racist and don't think he is. Incredibly stupid attempt at poor humour but I would say nothing racist in it. Shocked at the stupidity though. Seriously WTF.Rip wrote:I fully agree, not appropriate. But hardly "horrifying".LawBeefaroni wrote:Riiiight.Rip wrote:
Hardly horrifying, he was trying to be sarcastically funny (unwisely) to get the lady to relax. But only a moron would think he was seriously suggesting they do that.
No one thinks he is saying it is a matter of policy. What is horrifying is the extremely poor judgement and the fact that those words came out of his mouth duing a traffic stop.
That's something you might shrug off at the bar at 4am. Not something to say to a member of the public.
- tjg_marantz
- Posts: 14688
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:54 pm
- Location: Queen City, SK
- Jaymann
- Posts: 19454
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: California
Re: Cops behaving badly
Well if the gun was heavy enough to require a tripod, that would be some serious firepower.Lorini wrote:Because a camera and a gun look so similar! Cop shoots newspaper photographer because he thought the camera (on a tripod no less) was a gun.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 55352
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything
Re: Cops behaving badly
Rifles often have bipods attached and tripods aren't that unheard of.Jaymann wrote:Well if the gun was heavy enough to require a tripod, that would be some serious firepower.Lorini wrote:Because a camera and a gun look so similar! Cop shoots newspaper photographer because he thought the camera (on a tripod no less) was a gun.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
-
- Posts: 3287
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:51 am
- Location: A small world west of wonder
Re: Cops behaving badly
I bet his camera looked like...Jaymann wrote:Well if the gun was heavy enough to require a tripod, that would be some serious firepower.Lorini wrote:Because a camera and a gun look so similar! Cop shoots newspaper photographer because he thought the camera (on a tripod no less) was a gun.
Spoiler:
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Cops behaving badly
Black driver fails to use his turn signal cop comes to car with his gun drawn. The video is completely NSFW. But the driver has a point.
Black Lives Matter
- Holman
- Posts: 28958
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
- Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon
Re: Cops behaving badly
Absolutely right he does.Lorini wrote:Black driver fails to use his turn signal cop comes to car with his gun drawn. The video is completely NSFW. But the driver has a point.
And he's speaking for more than just himself.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Xmann
- Posts: 3458
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:36 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
Lorini wrote:Black driver fails to use his turn signal cop comes to car with his gun drawn. The video is completely NSFW. But the driver has a point.
wow wow wow. I can't believe what I'm seeing.
gf.me/u/zhnmhs
- Moliere
- Posts: 12340
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
- Location: Walking through a desert land
Re: Cops behaving badly
Cop sites unlicensed hot dog vendor. Proceeds to empty his wallet. You know, as evidence.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
- Paingod
- Posts: 13135
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am
Re: Cops behaving badly
Lorini wrote:Black driver fails to use his turn signal cop comes to car with his gun drawn. The video is completely NSFW. But the driver has a point.
As a nation, we are LONG overdue for some kind of drastic police overhaul. This can't continue.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
- dbt1949
- Posts: 25742
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:34 am
- Location: Hogeye Arkansas
Re: Cops behaving badly
Think of how many Trump supporters there are out there.
Good luck with that overhaul.
Good luck with that overhaul.
Ye Olde Farte
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Cops behaving badly
There's a lot more people who don't support him than who do. However we have to (keep) make (ing)our voices heard. Write your city/county reps and tell them you want a police department that gives everyone their civil rights, that isn't racist, that treats people with respect, that follows the law and that enforces the law. Tell them you don't want your tax dollars devoted to settlements because of police misconduct.dbt1949 wrote:Think of how many Trump supporters there are out there.
Good luck with that overhaul.
Black Lives Matter
- Rip
- Posts: 26891
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
- Location: Cajun Country!
- Contact:
Re: Cops behaving badly
With what cops make, good luck with that.
America wants good cops at less than shitty cop wages.
America wants good cops at less than shitty cop wages.
- Lorini
- Posts: 8282
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
- Location: Santa Clarita, California
Re: Cops behaving badly
Just think of how much more they could make if the taxpayers could pay them instead of settling with aggrieved people. LA pays out $50M in cop settlements, that would go a long way to increase their wages.Rip wrote:With what cops make, good luck with that.
America wants good cops at less than shitty cop wages.
Black Lives Matter
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70186
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
That has to change. I've long been a proponent of increasing my taxes with goal of retaining better police and teachers. Our future and our safety depend on it.Rip wrote:With what cops make, good luck with that.
America wants good cops at less than shitty cop wages.
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 55352
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything
Re: Cops behaving badly
Chicago has paid out about that average over the past 4 years. $210m over that period.
However in 2017 they are on pace to pay out around $200M in overtime. That's just overtime pay for one year. This after the mayor promised to hire 1,000 more cops. He's has press conferences at the academy and jogged for the cameras with a career class. But has only managed a net increase of 37 coppers. And a net decrease in patrol officers since the biggest gain was detectives. So now there is an OT freeze for the rest of the year and no new cops. It's a mess.
It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
And yeah, that $50M a year could go a long way to improving things. But we all know that if it wasn't spent in settlements it wouldn't go to the PD. I wonder how much, if any, is insurance money. I know Chicago had to borrow to pay theirs so the taxpayer is also paying interest on that crap.
However in 2017 they are on pace to pay out around $200M in overtime. That's just overtime pay for one year. This after the mayor promised to hire 1,000 more cops. He's has press conferences at the academy and jogged for the cameras with a career class. But has only managed a net increase of 37 coppers. And a net decrease in patrol officers since the biggest gain was detectives. So now there is an OT freeze for the rest of the year and no new cops. It's a mess.
It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
And yeah, that $50M a year could go a long way to improving things. But we all know that if it wasn't spent in settlements it wouldn't go to the PD. I wonder how much, if any, is insurance money. I know Chicago had to borrow to pay theirs so the taxpayer is also paying interest on that crap.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
- LordMortis
- Posts: 70186
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Cops behaving badly
Training and respect and community involvement to me are part of paying them more. I suppose I should have worded it more carefully. We need to spend more money on police departments and classrooms. I have posted several times case studies for Camden NJ where they trained a bunch of rookie cops in community involvement and De-escalation. The case study was a huge success, except that Camden could not afford to pay the top notch community involved rookie cops they trained and committed to and they were ultimately poached by other PDs.LawBeefaroni wrote:It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
- Paingod
- Posts: 13135
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am
Re: Cops behaving badly
Highlighted the pertinent component there. It can be hard to find people of the right disposition for police work. A lot of former military folks end up there as a default, and their combat training doesn't help them much when they need to act as psychologists or counselors. The requirements to get in can be pretty low, and training sometimes can be very thin.LordMortis wrote:That has to change. I've long been a proponent of increasing my taxes with goal of retaining better police and teachers. Our future and our safety depend on it.Rip wrote:With what cops make, good luck with that.
America wants good cops at less than shitty cop wages.
So many ++++'s. I worked in Corrections for a while, and I quickly found myself thinking bad things about people. It's just hard not to when you're rubbing elbows with wife beaters, child molesters, rapists, murderers, drunks, and drug addicts all day, every day. I felt even worse for the police - I mean, I knew what to expect from the guys in cells. Police have no idea what someone's going to turn out to be and they never get called to help children eat a cake or pet someone's dog.LawBeefaroni wrote:It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
There should be an ongoing requirement for evaluation and recuperation. Be a cop for 6 months, immerse yourself in bunnies and kittens for 6 months.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23648
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: Cops behaving badly
The thing to remember is that the job for police has mostly become two things, maintaining order and collecting money. Solving crimes other than murder is way, way down the list, and preventing crime in any way outside of visibility has mostly disappeared.LawBeefaroni wrote:Chicago has paid out about that average over the past 4 years. $210m over that period.
However in 2017 they are on pace to pay out around $200M in overtime. That's just overtime pay for one year. This after the mayor promised to hire 1,000 more cops. He's has press conferences at the academy and jogged for the cameras with a career class. But has only managed a net increase of 37 coppers. And a net decrease in patrol officers since the biggest gain was detectives. So now there is an OT freeze for the rest of the year and no new cops. It's a mess.
It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
And yeah, that $50M a year could go a long way to improving things. But we all know that if it wasn't spent in settlements it wouldn't go to the PD. I wonder how much, if any, is insurance money. I know Chicago had to borrow to pay theirs so the taxpayer is also paying interest on that crap.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.