Cops behaving badly

[Isgrimnur]

Men in Black reference

[malchior]

Partner who was driving said loud noise might have prompted shooting. The officer who shot has declined to be interviewed. The subtext here may be that the officer who fired his weapon is resigned to be fired. And is banking that is far better than facing possible prosecution.

[hepcat]

Men in Black reference

I'll take your word on that. Too lazy to search for it.

[Kraken]

His parents said he just needed to sleep. A SWAT team came instead.

This is a weird and tragic story that's missing a crucial perspective -- namely, that of the ex-girlfriend whose phone calls to the cops set off the whole chain of events. We also don't know why this kid was carrying a gun in a state where that isn't a common practice at all (I'm assuming he was licensed, although the story is silent on that point.) As reported, it appears to be a story of cops escalating according to protocol until a kid ended up dead.

It's a pretty interesting story if you're drawn to such things. Ordinarily, I'm not...but this one gripped me.

[GreenGoo]

Men in Black reference

I'll take your word on that. Too lazy to search for it.

Little Tiffany

[Rip]

I don't get it.

[hepcat]

I was about to say "Good God, you folks remember some obscure things!"...but then I took a look at my posting history and realized I have no room to talk.

[McNutt]

I'm trying hard to figure that one out too.

[Paingod]

I'm trying hard to figure that one out too.

YouTube Answer

[Moliere]

Selling flowers without a permit? Time for a beat down.

[GreenGoo]

More people have me pl0nked than I thought. Ah well.

[Paingod]

More people have me pl0nked than I thought. Ah well.

[noxiousdog]

Selling flowers without a permit? Time for a beat down.

That wasn't much of a beat down.

[Moliere]

Selling flowers without a permit? Time for a beat down.

That wasn't much of a beat down.

Did she deserve to get wrestled to the ground and have her arm twisted behind her back? Seems a bit excessive given the situation.

[noxiousdog]

Selling flowers without a permit? Time for a beat down.

That wasn't much of a beat down.

Did she deserve to get wrestled to the ground and have her arm twisted behind her back? Seems a bit excessive given the situation.

I thought it seemed a little light considering she was resisting arrest.

[McNutt]

My outrage meter is not spiking here. She wasn't thrown to the ground for selling flowers. It was for not complying. I don't have enough information here to make me automatically side with her.

[Moliere]

You people are cold. She was selling flowers without a permit. It's another example of cops being used to protect the revenue of the city instead of public safety.

[Paingod]

My outrage meter is not spiking here. She wasn't thrown to the ground for selling flowers. It was for not complying. I don't have enough information here to make me automatically side with her.

It sounds like it was just a series of poor escalations. It went from citations for illegal sales, to her not complying with citations, to the cop trying to get her to, to her resisting and trying to leave, to him trying to get her to stay, to a struggle, to her on the ground.

Yes, the cops were protecting revenue. They were also preventing stuck motorists from being treated like a captive audience.

[GreenGoo]

You people are cold. She was selling flowers without a permit. It's another example of cops being used to protect the revenue of the city instead of public safety.

This thread is filled with horrific examples of cops abusing their power, or outright committing crimes. There is often very little argument in defense of the police officer's actions.

In this case, what is the expected outcome of refusing to comply with a lawful order from a LEO? As a foreigner, having read this thread and headlines from the US, I'm somewhat relieved that she wasn't killed.

I'm all for civil disobedience for what you believe in. But you need to understand and accept the consequences of those actions, assuming those consequences are lawful and proportional.

I just don't see this situation as anything other than a small violation that could have and should have been defused through compliance rather than escalated through non-compliance. Could the officer have behaved differently? Of course. But his actions were within my tolerance levels, with some mild disapproval for letting her antagonize him until the situation turned rough.

[GreenGoo]

Yes, the cops were protecting revenue. They were also preventing stuck motorists from being treated like a captive audience.

I'll just point out that a significant amount of our justice system is designed to protect property rights and commerce.

[Moliere]

Yes, the cops were protecting revenue. They were also preventing stuck motorists from being treated like a captive audience.

I'll just point out that a significant amount of our justice system is designed to protect property rights and commerce.

That's not the same thing as city's telling cops to write more speeding tickets in order to increase city revenues. That policy is not tied to public safety. Traffic cameras are even worse for this very reason.

[noxiousdog]

That's not the same thing as city's telling cops to write more speeding tickets in order to increase city revenues. That policy is not tied to public safety. Traffic cameras are even worse for this very reason.

If you want to make the argument that the laws are bad, I'm right there with you (though not about red light cameras). But this is the cops behaving badly thread. They behaved exactly like they were supposed to and would be expected in this case, as far as I can tell.

If there is outrage, it should be at the whichever legislature passed the permits required law.

[dbt1949]

I'm not sure but I don't think procedure is law. Just figuring out the best way to do things. So, in that regard it is the police's fault.

[Pyperkub]

Body cam captures Baltimore cop apparently planting drugs:

In the January 2017 video, Baltimore Police Officer Richard Pinheiro appears to place a bag of pills under some garbage in an alley. He then walks back out to the street, at which point he activates the body camera. But because the cameras are programmed to capture the 30 seconds prior to activation, the officer’s actions before returning from the alley were recorded.

[malchior]

Someone is going to jail there. Oh wait - what am I thinking - on balance with how these things typically turn out...he probably won't.

[Moliere]

Someone is going to jail there. Oh wait - what am I thinking - on balance with how these things typically turn out...he probably won't.

Steps to follow when any cop does something wrong.
Step 1: cop put on paid leave
Step 2: The union and police chief defend his actions
Step 3: Cop is put back on active duty
or
Step 3: Cop retires early with full pension benefits
or
Step 3: Cop appeals the forced retirement and via the police union rules. City doesn't want to pay for extensive litigation so they settle with the cop for a bonus package to retire or put him back on active service with backpay included
Step 4: Community forgets about the incident until it happens again

[malchior]

This one will be a little different in that every defense attorney will be calling his credibility into question so he is probably off the street. However he should be serving time. As much as they give him some doubt in the article...it was a blatant frame.

[Zarathud]

We should pay attention to causes -- bad management of police departments and poor public financing. Local governments want to tax less and fine more, incentivizing Police departments to become fine and profit centers while cutting training.

I can get a building inspector to arrive faster the next day than a non-emergency 311 call. That's not right, but it's the result of budget cuts and an undermanned Police district.

[Pyperkub]

Someone is going to jail there. Oh wait - what am I thinking - on balance with how these things typically turn out...he probably won't.

Steps to follow when any cop does something wrong.
Step 1: cop put on paid leave
Step 2: The union and police chief defend his actions
Step 3: Cop is put back on active duty
or
Step 3: Cop retires early with full pension benefits
or
Step 3: Cop appeals the forced retirement and via the police union rules. City doesn't want to pay for extensive litigation so they settle with the cop for a bonus package to retire or put him back on active service with backpay included
Step 4: Community forgets about the incident until it happens again

Yeah, desk job needs to be there too.

[Pyperkub]

We should pay attention to causes -- bad management of police departments and poor public financing. Local governments want to tax less and fine more, incentivizing Police departments to become fine and profit centers while cutting training.

I can get a building inspector to arrive faster the next day than a non-emergency 311 call. That's not right, but it's the result of budget cuts and an undermanned Police district.

Pretty sure none of that made the cop plant the drugs.

[Zarathud]

We should pay attention to causes -- bad management of police departments and poor public financing. Local governments want to tax less and fine more, incentivizing Police departments to become fine and profit centers while cutting training.

I can get a building inspector to arrive faster the next day than a non-emergency 311 call. That's not right, but it's the result of budget cuts and an undermanned Police district.

Pretty sure none of that made the cop plant the drugs.

No, but it may have permitted the cop to think they could get away with it.

[hepcat]

Body cam captures Baltimore cop apparently planting drugs:

But because the cameras are programmed to capture the 30 seconds in a buffer prior to activation, the officer’s actions before returning from the alley were recorded.

Is Baltimore the Wakanda of eastern United States? Are they so technologically advanced that they can invent cameras that are able to predict when you're going to activate them?

edit: in reading further on these cameras, it seems they're always recording, but only keep the last 30 seconds when they're not activated. At least that's what I'm getting from an article I just checked.

[Rip]

Body cam captures Baltimore cop apparently planting drugs:

But because the cameras are programmed to capture the 30 seconds in a buffer prior to activation, the officer’s actions before returning from the alley were recorded.

Is Baltimore the Wakanda of eastern United States? Are they so technologically advanced that they can invent cameras that are able to predict when you're going to activate them?

edit: in reading further on these cameras, it seems they're always recording, but only keep the last 30 seconds when they're not activated. At least that's what I'm getting from an article I just checked.

These type of things always do that. Your TV and microwave are always listening to you, even when you aren't talking to them. That way when you are talking to them they can remember what you said.

[GreenGoo]

edit: in reading further on these cameras, it seems they're always recording, but only keep the last 30 seconds when they're not activated. At least that's what I'm getting from an article I just checked.

That is almost certainly how they work.

Nvidia cards work the same way, if you configure them for it. i.e. they are always caching video (but not doing anything with it) until you hit the shortcut for video capture, then it writes to disk. It's pretty cool.

Playing multiplayer and just got a cool kill that you didn't expect? Bam! Now you have it on video after the fact.

Planting drugs and not expecting any witnesses? Bam, now you've incriminated yourself.

[hepcat]

These type of things always do that. Your TV and microwave are always listening to you, even when you aren't talking to them.

Which is never. My microwave is my damn therapist, man.

[LawBeefaroni]

You people are cold. She was selling flowers without a permit. It's another example of cops being used to protect the revenue of the city instead of public safety.

Here's the thing. When you make something illegal by law, you are saying that it rises to a level that requires a police force to enforce it. Whenever police are required to enforce a law, there is the potential for physical conflict because you are forcing a confrontational interaction between police and the public.

Don't want someone who is "merely" selling flowers without a permit to have the potential of resisting arrest, then don't make selling flowers without a permit illegal. Otherwise be prepared for these things to happen from time to time. At least until we stop using cops to collect taxes. I'm sure they would be happy to pass that role on to someone else.

Selling flowers doesn't deserve a beatdown. Resisting arrest does.

[GreenGoo]

Selling flowers doesn't deserve a beatdown. Resisting arrest does.

And there are plenty of cops willing to escalate a simple interaction into a major confrontation, but in this case it was within my personal outrage limits. I certainly feel he could have comported himself better, but he could have done much worse and still been "in the right".

I understand that this is not inside Moliere's outrage limits and that's fine. We all have different lines in the sand.

[Paingod]

It sucks, but the real rule of thumb with police interaction is to comply with anything and everything they ask unless you've got absolute legal knowledge on your side and aren't about to be dragged out of your car for it. The second the police escalate to illegal activity themselves, you can only go along with it and sue afterwards.

[Lorini]

So mad about this cop planting drugs on a black man, that could have been my son!!

I may be going on a political rampage to force elected officials to negotiate police contracts so I can vote against the idiots who approve these horrible police union contracts. Maybe even run myself!! I am so tired of police getting paid for actions where equivalent actions in the private sector would result in an immediate firing. Shit like this happens, my tax money should no longer be used to pay for criminals. The union can pay these assholes salaries if they want them to still have income.

[Isgrimnur]

Union environments are different. My father's previous employers had to fight to fire aircraft mechanics working on military aircraft on a military installation that popped positive for drugs multiple times.