Umm, yea, many of them aren't doing too hot on the maintaining order either. For many of them all of their normal priorities have been superseded by the cover/watch your ass priority.Pyperkub wrote:The thing to remember is that the job for police has mostly become two things, maintaining order and collecting money. Solving crimes other than murder is way, way down the list, and preventing crime in any way outside of visibility has mostly disappeared.LawBeefaroni wrote:Chicago has paid out about that average over the past 4 years. $210m over that period.
However in 2017 they are on pace to pay out around $200M in overtime. That's just overtime pay for one year. This after the mayor promised to hire 1,000 more cops. He's has press conferences at the academy and jogged for the cameras with a career class. But has only managed a net increase of 37 coppers. And a net decrease in patrol officers since the biggest gain was detectives. So now there is an OT freeze for the rest of the year and no new cops. It's a mess.
It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
And yeah, that $50M a year could go a long way to improving things. But we all know that if it wasn't spent in settlements it wouldn't go to the PD. I wonder how much, if any, is insurance money. I know Chicago had to borrow to pay theirs so the taxpayer is also paying interest on that crap.
Cops behaving badly
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Re: Cops behaving badly
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Because they're disposable pawns when serve at the pleasure of politicians.Rip wrote:Umm, yea, many of them aren't doing too hot on the maintaining order either. For many of them all of their normal priorities have been superseded by the cover/watch your ass priority.Pyperkub wrote:The thing to remember is that the job for police has mostly become two things, maintaining order and collecting money. Solving crimes other than murder is way, way down the list, and preventing crime in any way outside of visibility has mostly disappeared.LawBeefaroni wrote:Chicago has paid out about that average over the past 4 years. $210m over that period.
However in 2017 they are on pace to pay out around $200M in overtime. That's just overtime pay for one year. This after the mayor promised to hire 1,000 more cops. He's has press conferences at the academy and jogged for the cameras with a career class. But has only managed a net increase of 37 coppers. And a net decrease in patrol officers since the biggest gain was detectives. So now there is an OT freeze for the rest of the year and no new cops. It's a mess.
It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
And yeah, that $50M a year could go a long way to improving things. But we all know that if it wasn't spent in settlements it wouldn't go to the PD. I wonder how much, if any, is insurance money. I know Chicago had to borrow to pay theirs so the taxpayer is also paying interest on that crap.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Well, more to say that they are there to maintain the order in the areas important to those who influence politicians (those with the money to do so, at least). Sheriff's offices, as expressly political positions can be different, but mostly are even more so.LawBeefaroni wrote:Because they're disposable pawns when serve at the pleasure of politicians.Rip wrote:Umm, yea, many of them aren't doing too hot on the maintaining order either. For many of them all of their normal priorities have been superseded by the cover/watch your ass priority.Pyperkub wrote:The thing to remember is that the job for police has mostly become two things, maintaining order and collecting money. Solving crimes other than murder is way, way down the list, and preventing crime in any way outside of visibility has mostly disappeared.LawBeefaroni wrote:Chicago has paid out about that average over the past 4 years. $210m over that period.
However in 2017 they are on pace to pay out around $200M in overtime. That's just overtime pay for one year. This after the mayor promised to hire 1,000 more cops. He's has press conferences at the academy and jogged for the cameras with a career class. But has only managed a net increase of 37 coppers. And a net decrease in patrol officers since the biggest gain was detectives. So now there is an OT freeze for the rest of the year and no new cops. It's a mess.
It's not just pay. It's the job. Pay helps, of course, but cops need more support than just a higher pay. They see the worst of the worst and are sent home to self medicate with booze. They need more and better training (practical training, not lawyer-satisfying training) and mental health support that isn't condescending and that doesn't jeopardize their careers.
And yeah, that $50M a year could go a long way to improving things. But we all know that if it wasn't spent in settlements it wouldn't go to the PD. I wonder how much, if any, is insurance money. I know Chicago had to borrow to pay theirs so the taxpayer is also paying interest on that crap.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Psycho tries to cause and watch someone die on the train tracks. Police brass don't think it's necessary to issue alert (Mayor Napoleon wouldn't want to scare the tourists).
23 shots fired at CPD LT. No injuries, police later arrest a guy carrying a 5- round revolver. Yeah, right.
Man pulls gun on woman on the South Side. She fights him, takes gun, shoots him in the hand.
Also a cop shot a guy trying to kill him with a car.Those routine traffic stops and all that.
Just another day in Chicagoland.
Ben Benedict stood near the edge of the Washington Street subway platform, waiting for a late-night train home, when he felt a hard jab to the back and tumbled to the tracks five feet below.
He stopped a foot short of the third rail and immediately looked down the tracks, but didn't see the train yet, according to Benedict. Then he looked up and saw the guy who pushed him. He was staring at Benedict and not saying a word.
Benedict tried to scramble back up but the man kept blocking his way, pointing his finger at him and pacing back and forth. Benedict said he screamed at people on the other side of the platform, but the man tried to push them away until they formed a circle and helped Benedict onto the Blue Line platform.
The man ran off.
23 shots fired at CPD LT. No injuries, police later arrest a guy carrying a 5- round revolver. Yeah, right.
Man pulls gun on woman on the South Side. She fights him, takes gun, shoots him in the hand.
Also a cop shot a guy trying to kill him with a car.Those routine traffic stops and all that.
Officers activated their emergency equipment and pulled over the vehicle, police said. When officers got out of their car, "the vehicle pinned the officer," Stinites said.
A male officer then shot the driver of the vehicle, a 19-year-old man, Stinites said. The 19-year-old driver was pronounced dead at 1:11 a.m., according to the Cook County medical examiner's office.
Just another day in Chicagoland.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Texas cop shuts down volunteers helping with floods
Good news. Houston doesn't need any more help from volunteers or your donations.
Good news. Houston doesn't need any more help from volunteers or your donations.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
There are certainly a few places where cops are paid plenty.
http://nypost.com/2017/09/13/200000-cop ... p-soaring/Wonder why New York property taxes are sky-high, particularly in the Long Island and Lower Hudson Valley suburbs around the city? The Empire Center’s latest analysis flags one key reason: the astounding pay doled out to government workers in those areas — especially uniformed services, like police and firefighters.
For the second year in a row, the center found, 47 of the top 50 highest-paid local-government workers outside New York City were police officers — with five of the top seven on the Town of Ramapo payroll.
The No. 1 earner, Ramapo Police Officer Thomas Donnelly, pulled in $441,968 in the year ending last March. Four other Rockland County cops joined him in the top 10.
The 20 officers in the Nassau County Village of Kings Point (pop. 5,005 in the last Census) had the highest average pay of any group of government workers at $220,088.
We don’t begrudge first responders being paid what they’re worth, but these cops and firefighters, some in tiny hamlets, earn far more than their New York City counterparts.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
I keep trying to find more info on this.. The officer wasn't from the town the people were trying to help, so I wonder where he was from and what the thought process was.Moliere wrote:Texas cop shuts down volunteers helping with floods
Good news. Houston doesn't need any more help from volunteers or your donations.
I can only think that they had too many volunteers just showing up and that prevented it from being organized.. Something similar happened with 9/11. My friend and I were stuck in a medical staging area for 2 days near Fort Lee. Everyone trying to get into the city to help were turned away to go to staging areas and were dispatched as needed (we were never called).
In this case, the staging area may have been full.
Otherwise I can't think of a good reason to turn them away. In either case the officer should have made a better attempt at explaining it. Could have been that he was just frustrated in general and let it loose.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
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Re: Cops behaving badly
My FB feed was filled with posts about those "hot cops" a few days ago (lots of friends from Gainesville). Then it came out the middle cop is an anti-Semitic Douche. All the "hot cop" posts have suddenly stopped...
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Ooops! Cops catch one of their own:
Ex-North Chicago cop surrenders on charges alleging on-duty solicitation of prostitution
""It is truly a disappointment when an officer of the law is charged criminally for breaking the very laws he was sworn to uphold," Wilson said."
I am disappointed too.
Ex-North Chicago cop surrenders on charges alleging on-duty solicitation of prostitution
""It is truly a disappointment when an officer of the law is charged criminally for breaking the very laws he was sworn to uphold," Wilson said."
I am disappointed too.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
It's disappointing that he was charged?
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Re: Cops behaving badly
That a cop would break the law.Max Peck wrote:It's disappointing that he was charged?
And here's more disappointment:
NYPD cop charged with assaulting Coney Island man over spilled drink enters not guilty plea
A city cop was hit with multiple charges on Monday for allegedly assaulting and intimidating a Coney Island man over a spilled drink.
NYPD Officer O'Keefe Thompson was released on his own recognizance after he was indicted on one count of intimidating a witness, two counts of third-degree assault and two counts of official misconduct.
...
Thompson is accused of roughing up Raymond Crespo at the corner of Mermaid Ave. and W. 32nd St. in Coney Island.
The July 8 attack came after a cup of alcohol was knocked out of Crespo’s hand and splashed on a sidewalk near Thompson, prosecutors said.
...
The following day, when Thompson was off-duty and in plainclothes, he "sought the victim and asked him 'Why you s--- on my name?'" Assistant District Attorney Peter Choi said.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
That's bad when an off-duty cop comes to your house and threatens you. And yes the very act of him showing up is a threat.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Oklahoma City police fatally shoot deaf man who did not respond to commands
I'm no de-escalation expert, but simultaneously shooting and tasing a person seems... suboptimal.A deaf man holding a metal pipe was fatally shot by Oklahoma City police who yelled for him to drop his weapon and get on the ground but did not know he could not hear, a police spokesman said on Wednesday.
An investigation into a hit-and-run accident on Tuesday night led officers to a residence where Magdiel Sanchez, 35, was on the porch, Oklahoma City police spokesman Captain Bo Mathews said during a news conference.
Sanchez was holding a 2-foot-long metal pipe that was wrapped in material and had a leather loop at the end, Mathews told reporters.
Witnesses, who heard the officers yelling commands, shouted that Sanchez was deaf, Mathews said.
Sanchez came off the porch and approached the officers with the pipe in his hand, he said.
Sergeant Christopher Barnes had a weapon drawn and Lieutenant Matthew Lindsey had a Taser drawn. They both fired, hitting Sanchez who was 15 feet away, Mathews said.
“In those situations, very volatile situations when you have a weapon out, you can get what they call tunnel vision, or you could really lock in to just the person that has the weapon that made the threat against you,” Mathews told reporters. “They very well could not have heard everybody yelling around them.”
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Here's an idea. Don't don't do this.Sanchez came off the porch and approached the officers with the pipe in his hand, he said.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Here's an idea. Tazer him first. Another "justified" shooting I'm sure.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
When the only variable in play is someone walking with a melee weapon, lethal force should never be an option.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
How fast do you think someone can close 20 feet? If he gets on an armed officer with that pipe, he'll soon have a handgun. How do you get him to stop walking, once he ignores commands, if not the threat of lethal force? Yeah, he was deaf. Muzzling him with a pistol is a pretty universal stop sign.Paingod wrote:When the only variable in play is someone walking with a melee weapon, lethal force should never be an option.
Tazers aren't magical weapons. They are more for compliance than for self defense and have limited practical applications. Expecting every shooting to be preceded by a tazer attempt is crazy. It's like expecting cops to shoot legs first or to shoot guns out of suspects' hands.tjg_marantz wrote:Here's an idea. Tazer him first. Another "justified" shooting I'm sure.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Then cops should stay back 30 feet. It's not like their guns are going to be ineffective beyond 20' away.LawBeefaroni wrote:How fast do you think someone can close 20 feet? If he gets on an armed officer with that pipe, he'll soon have a handgun. How do you get him to stop walking, once he ignores commands, if not the threat of lethal force? Yeah, he was deaf. Muzzling him with a pistol is a pretty universal stop sign.Paingod wrote:When the only variable in play is someone walking with a melee weapon, lethal force should never be an option.
I think you kind of missed the point - cops aren't supposed to show up and put themselves in harm's way so they can stand their ground and kill people. They're supposed to show up and deescalate a situation so it can be resolved as peacefully as possible. If that means they have to keep walking backwards while someone walks forwards, I don't see the issue. You see someone with a lead pipe, you hang back and wait for the guy with a taser to get into position while trying to talk the suspect down.
If this guy had come down screaming off the porch, that's one thing... but what I read sounded like he was walking.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
30 feet isn't a magic distance. They haven't taken Point Blank Shot.
Police accuracy ratings study (PDF)
Police accuracy ratings study (PDF)
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
You're making a lot of assumption about the layout and the situation. Also, cops and evidence will tell you that responding to a domestic dispute are the most dangerous and unpredictable calls police receive. Shit happens fast and the situation is never perfect. They can't just show up and go down the deescalation checklist. They have to show up, assess the situation, identify who is who and who is a potential threat, identify other threats, etc.Paingod wrote:Then cops should stay back 30 feet. It's not like their guns are going to be ineffective beyond 20' away.LawBeefaroni wrote:How fast do you think someone can close 20 feet? If he gets on an armed officer with that pipe, he'll soon have a handgun. How do you get him to stop walking, once he ignores commands, if not the threat of lethal force? Yeah, he was deaf. Muzzling him with a pistol is a pretty universal stop sign.Paingod wrote:When the only variable in play is someone walking with a melee weapon, lethal force should never be an option.
I think you kind of missed the point - cops aren't supposed to show up and put themselves in harm's way so they can stand their ground and kill people. They're supposed to show up and deescalate a situation so it can be resolved as peacefully as possible. If that means they have to keep walking backwards while someone walks forwards, I don't see the issue. You see someone with a lead pipe, you hang back and wait for the guy with a taser to get into position while trying to talk the suspect down.
Walking is a milisecond from running. Put the pipe down and greatly reduce the risk of being shot.
If this guy had come down screaming off the porch, that's one thing... but what I read sounded like he was walking.
I'm not saying the guy deserved it either. It's a bad outcome but you can't make the assumption that they just showed up and decided to kill a guy.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
If a cop is 30 feet away and the suspect covers 15 feet in the second it takes the cop to raise his gun and aim, then they have 15 feet left to hit with 75-87% accuracy.
I'm not saying they did that at all - but they should have handled it differently. Based on the information in the article, the cops had the alternative of stepping back instead of killing him. He was 15 feet away and "approaching" - not rushing or running. I'm sure they had their guns trained/aimed right at him and if he started to sprint, they could have dropped him in a heartbeat. They weren't in any danger and could back up.LawBeefaroni wrote:you can't make the assumption that they just showed up and decided to kill a guy.
Last edited by Paingod on Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
I'm with Paingod. Shooting people seems to be the first option too often instead of the last.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Yep, every single day in the UK our police offers approach offenders like these with these sort of weapons and they don't kill them, pretty much never yet we don't have a lot of Police Officers dying either. Not quite sure how they manage it?
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Flimsier pipes?Reemul wrote:Yep, every single day in the UK our police offers approach offenders like these with these sort of weapons and they don't kill them, pretty much never yet we don't have a lot of Police Officers dying either. Not quite sure how they manage it?
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Re: Cops behaving badly
So are you, given that that's not why they were there.LawBeefaroni wrote:You're making a lot of assumption about the layout and the situation. Also, cops and evidence will tell you that responding to a domestic dispute are the most dangerous and unpredictable calls police receive.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
The BBC article on the shooting includes a factoid that might shed light on why he didn't just drop the pipe.
The 2ft (0.6m) pipe that Sanchez was holding as he sat on his porch was initially described to officers as a stick.
Neighbours say that Sanchez, who was non-verbal, would use the pipe and his hands to communicate and also to protect against stray dogs near his home where he lived with his father.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
He was deaf..not blind... Here's a good rule..if a police officer has drawn their weapon on you, stop what you are doing.. don't approach with anything that could be seen as a weapon.Max Peck wrote:The BBC article on the shooting includes a factoid that might shed light on why he didn't just drop the pipe.The 2ft (0.6m) pipe that Sanchez was holding as he sat on his porch was initially described to officers as a stick.
Neighbours say that Sanchez, who was non-verbal, would use the pipe and his hands to communicate and also to protect against stray dogs near his home where he lived with his father.
not saying he deserved it, but I don't see this as a cop behaving badly.
Also, guns aren't magical... a single shot does not always take someone down. so if he did run at 30 feet, the extra 10 feet from the "20 foot rule" may not have made a difference.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Ok, an investigation at a domestic location with a potential suspect. Not a domestic dispute. Tactically, the danger is the same.Fretmute wrote:So are you, given that that's not why they were there.LawBeefaroni wrote:You're making a lot of assumption about the layout and the situation. Also, cops and evidence will tell you that responding to a domestic dispute are the most dangerous and unpredictable calls police receive.
It's sad, it really is. I'm happy if something like this never happens again. It's possible to say that the police were not wrong to shoot and also that they may have had alternatives.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
I still think cops are too trigger happy and I do in this case, but I can't put most of the blame on them.
If I'm armed in my yard and some guy comes running at me with a pipe in his hand I'm probably going to shoot him too.
If I'm armed in my yard and some guy comes running at me with a pipe in his hand I'm probably going to shoot him too.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
I'm willing to concede that you might consider a house a danger multiplier. I am unwilling to concede that someone suspected of some property damage, and someone who is presumably angry and has probably already offered violence are in the same ballpark, house or not.LawBeefaroni wrote:Ok, an investigation at a domestic location with a potential suspect. Not a domestic dispute. Tactically, the danger is the same.
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Well, hit and run isn't always just mere property damage. But ignoring that, the point is that arriving at a house regardless of the reason is a highly uncertain situation. And not all domestic dispute calls are initiated by violence. It could be a noise complaint, whatever. Theyre still consider dangerous. When they roll up to the house they could find anything. It's like a traffic stop that way but they don't have home field or even a neutral field.Fretmute wrote:I'm willing to concede that you might consider a house a danger multiplier. I am unwilling to concede that someone suspected of some property damage, and someone who is presumably angry and has probably already offered violence are in the same ballpark, house or not.LawBeefaroni wrote:Ok, an investigation at a domestic location with a potential suspect. Not a domestic dispute. Tactically, the danger is the same.
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- Max Peck
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Re: Cops behaving badly
My excessively obtuse point was that the dead man used his "stick" as a communication aid. It is feasible that he didn't see his own actions as threatening.Punisher wrote:He was deaf..not blind... Here's a good rule..if a police officer has drawn their weapon on you, stop what you are doing.. don't approach with anything that could be seen as a weapon.Max Peck wrote:The BBC article on the shooting includes a factoid that might shed light on why he didn't just drop the pipe.The 2ft (0.6m) pipe that Sanchez was holding as he sat on his porch was initially described to officers as a stick.
Neighbours say that Sanchez, who was non-verbal, would use the pipe and his hands to communicate and also to protect against stray dogs near his home where he lived with his father.
not saying he deserved it, but I don't see this as a cop behaving badly.
Also, guns aren't magical... a single shot does not always take someone down. so if he did run at 30 feet, the extra 10 feet from the "20 foot rule" may not have made a difference.
As to whether the incident even belongs in the thread, I'll point out that the excuse given by the police department for why neither police officer "heard" the bystanders shouting at them was that they may have had "tunnel vision." If one has zero situational awareness when employing lethal force, I'd say one is doing one's job badly. If one is not coordinating with fellow police officers on the scene (one officer was attempting to employ nonlethal force via a taser, while the other employed his sidearm), I'd say one is doing one's job badly. YMMV.
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- LawBeefaroni
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Re: Cops behaving badly
Max Peck wrote:My excessively obtuse point was that the dead man used his "stick" as a communication aid. It is feasible that he didn't see his own actions as threatening.Punisher wrote:He was deaf..not blind... Here's a good rule..if a police officer has drawn their weapon on you, stop what you are doing.. don't approach with anything that could be seen as a weapon.Max Peck wrote:The BBC article on the shooting includes a factoid that might shed light on why he didn't just drop the pipe.The 2ft (0.6m) pipe that Sanchez was holding as he sat on his porch was initially described to officers as a stick.
Neighbours say that Sanchez, who was non-verbal, would use the pipe and his hands to communicate and also to protect against stray dogs near his home where he lived with his father.
not saying he deserved it, but I don't see this as a cop behaving badly.
Also, guns aren't magical... a single shot does not always take someone down. so if he did run at 30 feet, the extra 10 feet from the "20 foot rule" may not have made a difference.
He also used it as an improvised weapon to fend off dogs.
That's a common thread in lethal shootings. Its human biology in a high stress survival situation. Not sure how you train it away other than engaging in a lot of lethal shootings. That said, I agree, it can be mitigated. Not sure what the answer is.Max Peck wrote:
As to whether the incident even belongs in the thread, I'll point out that the excuse given by the police department for why neither police officer "heard" the bystanders shouting at them was that they may have had "tunnel vision." If one has zero situational awareness when employing lethal force, I'd say one is doing one's job badly. If one is not coordinating with fellow police officers on the scene (one officer was attempting to employ nonlethal force via a taser, while the other employed his sidearm), I'd say one is doing one's job badly. YMMV.
As for coordinating, shit can go pear in miliseconds. There's not a lot of C&C that can go down. Hell, it's possible that the sound of the tazer being deployed caused the other officer to fire.
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- Punisher
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Re: Cops behaving badly
I also doubt that any reasonable person who didn't know him could reasonably come to the conclusion that he used it to communicate with.LawBeefaroni wrote:Max Peck wrote:My excessively obtuse point was that the dead man used his "stick" as a communication aid. It is feasible that he didn't see his own actions as threatening.Punisher wrote:He was deaf..not blind... Here's a good rule..if a police officer has drawn their weapon on you, stop what you are doing.. don't approach with anything that could be seen as a weapon.Max Peck wrote:The BBC article on the shooting includes a factoid that might shed light on why he didn't just drop the pipe.The 2ft (0.6m) pipe that Sanchez was holding as he sat on his porch was initially described to officers as a stick.
Neighbours say that Sanchez, who was non-verbal, would use the pipe and his hands to communicate and also to protect against stray dogs near his home where he lived with his father.
not saying he deserved it, but I don't see this as a cop behaving badly.
Also, guns aren't magical... a single shot does not always take someone down. so if he did run at 30 feet, the extra 10 feet from the "20 foot rule" may not have made a difference.
He also used it as an improvised weapon to fend off dogs.
I can't even come up with a good reason for a deaf person to do so.. What does the pipe do that pointing can't?
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- Max Peck
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Re: Cops behaving badly
The answer is training.LawBeefaroni wrote:That's a common thread in lethal shootings. Its human biology in a high stress survival situation. Not sure how you train it away other than engaging in a lot of lethal shootings. That said, I agree, it can be mitigated. Not sure what the answer is.
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- GreenGoo
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Re: Cops behaving badly
We could ask him...guess not.
- LawBeefaroni
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Re: Cops behaving badly
That's the mitigation I was talking about. But all the training in the world isn't the same as being there.Max Peck wrote:The answer is training.LawBeefaroni wrote:That's a common thread in lethal shootings. Its human biology in a high stress survival situation. Not sure how you train it away other than engaging in a lot of lethal shootings. That said, I agree, it can be mitigated. Not sure what the answer is.
It also works better for military and SWAT where the ROE are much more cut and dry. Get in scene, see threat/enemy, shoot threat/enemy. For patrol officers it's not quite so black and white.
And who's willing to pay for it? You're talking thousands a day for what needs to be, to be effective, onging and regular training.
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- Max Peck
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Re: Cops behaving badly
I am really, really bad at communicating my point. Maybe I need to get myself a pipe...Punisher wrote:I also doubt that any reasonable person who didn't know him could reasonably come to the conclusion that he used it to communicate with.
I didn't say anything about the officer's perception. Obviously the cops thought it was threatening, or else they wouldn't have simultaneously shot and tased him, bro. I simply noted that the dead man might not have been thinking "Hey, this thing makes me look like a dangerous dude. Maybe I should get rid of it." if he used it as a communication aid (among other things).
Also, it's too bad that there weren't any bystanders who did know him and could have attempted to communicate with the police officers in an attempt to de-escalate the situation.
Damned if I know. It doesn't change that fact that he did use it in that manner, according to people that knew him. At any rate, it's moot. The only person who knows what was going through Magdiel Sanchez's mind when he stepped off his father's front porch isn't in a position to enlighten us.Punisher wrote:I can't even come up with a good reason for a deaf person to do so.. What does the pipe do that pointing can't?
Finally, here's another factoid:
A family spokesman also said Sanchez was developmentally disabled.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch