Cops behaving badly

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Lorini
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Isgrimnur wrote:Union environments are different. My father's previous employers had to fight to fire aircraft mechanics working on military aircraft on a military installation that popped positive for drugs multiple times.

The CEO is responsible for union negotiations for for-profit companies as they should be. No one is apparently responsible for negotiations with public unions where the taxpayer gets reamed (excluding teachers imo). And since no one is responsible then why not give police unions these ridiculous terms, no skin off their back!!
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Moliere »

Lorini wrote:The CEO is responsible for union negotiations for for-profit companies as they should be. No one is apparently responsible for negotiations with public unions where the taxpayer gets reamed (excluding teachers imo). And since no one is responsible then why not give police unions these ridiculous terms, no skin off their back!!
Why exclude teachers? Have you not heard of rubber rooms?

Look what it takes to fire a bad one:

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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We are talking about police here. I'm phone posting on vacation and I'll get back to you on that privately later. I didn't mean to distract from the important conversation at hand, I apologize.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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edit: meh.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Lorini wrote: And since no one is responsible then why not give police unions these ridiculous terms, no skin off their back!!
Exactly, but it's even more than that. Cops vote and police unions endorse. It's just another example of spending public funds for votes. Crappy contracts, union deals, you name it, you're paying taxes in part so politicians have cash to throw around for votes.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Btw, if these body cams keep a 30 second buffer before being turned on, and they can be set to turn on in any number of circumstances (light bar activation, squad car doors open, etc), why can't they just be gunshot activated? Seems like an easy solution to these unrecorded shootings.

I have heard some unsettling speculation about the Minneapolis shooting, from my cop friends, that I'm loathe to believe but the fact the the body cams and dash cam were never activated kind of makes their point.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Whatever you do, don't share it with us. :D
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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LawBeefaroni wrote:Btw, if these body cams keep a 30 second buffer before being turned on, and they can be set to turn on in any number of circumstances (light bar activation, squad car doors open, etc), why can't they just be gunshot activated? Seems like an easy solution to these unrecorded shootings.

I have heard some unsettling speculation about the Minneapolis shooting, from my cop friends, that I'm loathe to believe but the fact the the body cams and dash cam were never activated kind of makes their point.
Turn on if fire arm or other equipment removed from holster / belt. Cuffs, mace, gun all warrant recording. Does not work against suspect initiated event.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Paingod wrote:It sucks, but the real rule of thumb with police interaction is to comply with anything and everything they ask unless you've got absolute legal knowledge on your side and aren't about to be dragged out of your car for it. The second the police escalate to illegal activity themselves, you can only go along with it and sue afterwards.
Fixed that for you....
The minute the police tell you that you are under arrest..That's it.. NOTHING you do or know will change that.. Telling them no or you don't want to be arrested or they have no right to arrest you or any number of other things gets you nowhere except adding a resisting arrest charge and a good likelihood of things getting physical. The time to fight them is in court, not at the time of arrest...
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Montag wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:Btw, if these body cams keep a 30 second buffer before being turned on, and they can be set to turn on in any number of circumstances (light bar activation, squad car doors open, etc), why can't they just be gunshot activated? Seems like an easy solution to these unrecorded shootings.

I have heard some unsettling speculation about the Minneapolis shooting, from my cop friends, that I'm loathe to believe but the fact the the body cams and dash cam were never activated kind of makes their point.
Turn on if fire arm or other equipment removed from holster / belt. Cuffs, mace, gun all warrant recording. Does not work against suspect initiated event.
Maybe they need to record in a lower quality at all times and all activating does is record at a higher quality... Biggest concern would be storage space..
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by GreenGoo »

Punisher wrote: Fixed that for you....
The minute the police tell you that you are under arrest..That's it.. NOTHING you do or know will change that.. Telling them no or you don't want to be arrested or they have no right to arrest you or any number of other things gets you nowhere except adding a resisting arrest charge and a good likelihood of things getting physical. The time to fight them is in court, not at the time of arrest...
Given some examples in this thread, even that might not be enough. If lying face down with your hands visible and obviously empty isn't enough to keep you from being shot...fate/luck/happenstance can be a bastard.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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LawBeefaroni wrote: I have heard some unsettling speculation about the Minneapolis shooting, from my cop friends, that I'm loathe to believe but the fact the the body cams and dash cam were never activated kind of makes their point.
Do tell. I'm interested to hear what they said.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Punisher wrote:
Paingod wrote:It sucks, but the real rule of thumb with police interaction is to comply with anything and everything they ask unless you've got absolute legal knowledge on your side and aren't about to be dragged out of your car for it. The second the police escalate to illegal activity themselves, you can only go along with it and sue afterwards.
Fixed that for you....
The minute the police tell you that you are under arrest..That's it.. NOTHING you do or know will change that.. Telling them no or you don't want to be arrested or they have no right to arrest you or any number of other things gets you nowhere except adding a resisting arrest charge and a good likelihood of things getting physical. The time to fight them is in court, not at the time of arrest...
Not quite fixed. There's absolutely no harm in standing up for your rights. I never mentioned resisting arrest, and the second they indicate that, of course you comply or face serious trouble. I was talking about everything leading up to arrest. If you know they're giving you an unlawful order, you can call them on that. It's not a criminal offense.

There are many videos of honest citizens standing up for their rights and forcing cops to back down - or forcing cops to admit they're just bullies. One example.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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That's what courts are for, in my opinion.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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hepcat wrote:That's what courts are for, in my opinion.
In my opinion, the men and women who are charged with upholding the law should know what it is they're upholding - at least the things that matter in civil interactions. Most of what people in these videos challenge are the basics the cops are doing wrong - stopping people without cause, asking for ID during a stop without cause, demanding windows be rolled down for cursory inspections when they don't need to be, griefing people who are legally open carrying, etc.

I'm not asking cops to be legal rocket scientists, but they should go into each encounter knowing what your rights are in dealing with them and leave their egos at the door. I've talked with a couple part-time cops in my area, and aside from passing background checks and firearms competencies, they didn't really get much by way of training and thought that whatever they said was basically the law. That cannot go unchecked.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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GreenGoo wrote: I'm all for civil disobedience for what you believe in. But you need to understand and accept the consequences of those actions, assuming those consequences are lawful and proportional.
I'm in total agreement with this statement, however, my friends and family don't always agree with me. I mean, when has resisting arrest ever worked out for someone?

Frankly, I believe our country has it backwards with regard to policemen. These are people that have to deal with all of the violent and terrible situations in our society...and risk their lives doing it. Their pay is not requisite to the risks they face or the shit they have to go through on a weekly basis. They should be the most intelligent, highly-paid, best-trained and psychologically-vetted men and women in this role...but they aren't. Most of them need a second job to supplement their income. They are called for domestic disturbances, murders, robberies, sexual assaults, etc. I'd imagine these situations would make me expect the worst in people in their interactions.

I don't EVER give a cop an attitude...not out of fear...but to respect the fact that I don't need to make their job any worse.

I'm white and was treated (briefly) very rudely while in my mini-van with my seven year-old daughter in a car seat. I had inadvertently entered the wrong u-turn lane from a newly built grocery store in the front of my neighborhood. Of course, the only car coming from far away was a police car. I was able to correctly turn back the correct direction and pulled into the parking lot I had originally was trying to enter. I didn't even know it was a cop car until I had started entering the lot. I was getting out of the car at CVS thinking the cop was going to ask what the hell I was doing, and he shouted "Stay in the car!". I was like, okay, no problem...and a little surprised. He proceeded to rudely ask if I realized I had gone the wrong way and I say, "Yes, I was just not aware that lane was the wrong direction since the sign was angled a bit weird. It's a new cross-over." After asking where I lived (which was in the neighborhood, he again rudely asked how I didn't know this, I pointed to the Grand Opening sign over the HEB and said "It just opened...I never crossed here before tonight". He took my DL and checked it...after that, TOTALLY different personality after that. I don't know if he saw my lack of criminal record or what, but he was all sunshine after that. Keep in mind, I was in dress slacks and business shirt...with my daughter...in a min-van. He was a white cop.

I don't believe they should be given a free pass if they do something terrible. I also don't believe every cop is a minority-killing monster. They're people...both good and bad people.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Once my 2 kids, my wife and I were getting into a taxi van with our luggage to the airport and a squad car came down our 2-block one-way street in Chicago. We finished getting in the taxi and drove a block and a half to the end of the street at the main road. That's when the squad car pulled alongside of the taxi to pass, then stopped.

The officer told the driver (arab) that he wasn't allowed to pick us up in front of the house and should have stopped at the corner -- and the next time he would be ticketed. The driver politely pointed out we had children and bags but only took a minute to board, but he understood. The officer took this as backtalk and started to raise his voice. My wife quickly jumped in to thank him for letting us know.

I am a lawyer.
The driver was a court interpreter with a national security clearance.
My wife volunteers for the beat's community-policing outreach program, and bakes cookies for the officers.

None of us wanted to give the officer an excuse to escalate.

My wife had realized the car wasn't from our beat or district and was taking a shortcut back from a nearby station-courthouse. He was annoyed about being late and waiting for a minute, not anything else.

Another time in high school my friends drove the car whose bumper I was standing on slowly past our hometown police station. They were driving too fast to jump off, but not so fast I couldn't balance myself on the hood by holding onto the hood ornament.

The officers weren't amused at the prank.
I was just happy to get back IN the car.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Paingod wrote:
Punisher wrote:
Paingod wrote:It sucks, but the real rule of thumb with police interaction is to comply with anything and everything they ask unless you've got absolute legal knowledge on your side and aren't about to be dragged out of your car for it. The second the police escalate to illegal activity themselves, you can only go along with it and sue afterwards.
Fixed that for you....
The minute the police tell you that you are under arrest..That's it.. NOTHING you do or know will change that.. Telling them no or you don't want to be arrested or they have no right to arrest you or any number of other things gets you nowhere except adding a resisting arrest charge and a good likelihood of things getting physical. The time to fight them is in court, not at the time of arrest...
Not quite fixed. There's absolutely no harm in standing up for your rights. I never mentioned resisting arrest, and the second they indicate that, of course you comply or face serious trouble. I was talking about everything leading up to arrest. If you know they're giving you an unlawful order, you can call them on that. It's not a criminal offense.

There are many videos of honest citizens standing up for their rights and forcing cops to back down - or forcing cops to admit they're just bullies. One example.
From watching the video, it sounds like this guy is known in the area.. He seems to know the 2nd cop and the 2nd cop seems to know him... My personal feeling is that the guy like to go around trolling the cops waiting for something like this to happen.. maybe for kicks.. maybe for clicks...
as for your reply.. the initial post seemed to indicate that yes, if you felt you had absolute legal knowledge, then yes, resist arrest.. If that was not your meaning, then I stand corrected... Even still, it is best to just comply, then if you feel you are wronged file an official complaint and/or get an attorney and sue for false arrest.
Are there bad cops? Of course there are... Are the vast majority bad? absolutely not... I guarantee there are horrible cops who are just bullies or criminals... but the vast majority are not.. Most of the videos I have seen have people resisting arrest by claiming the arrest is illegal or other such things.. That is not helpful..Especially if you are already recording them. Just comply stay quiet and show the video to your attorney then sue for damages. During the arrest is not the time to argue...
A friend of mine got pulled over for crossing double yellow lines to enter a parking lot... He explained that it wasn't illegal to the cop who argued that it was. My friend just said fine and took the ticket, went to court and got it dismissed.
The point is that the cop was wrong and lost. My friend didn't keep arguing, just let the courts sort things out.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Zarathud wrote: The officer told the driver (arab) that he wasn't allowed to pick us up in front of the house and should have stopped at the corner -- and the next time he would be ticketed.
This is true? Cabs can't stop in front of your house to pick you up? That seems like an odd law or ordinance to have.. Do you know the theory behind that?
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Cops behaving badly

Post by Zarathud »

I expect it is because of "blocking traffic" even though the cab was far enough over for the squad car to get by. And we packed up kids and 4 suitcases in 90 seconds (new record).

When yelling at the driver, the squad car blocked the street. As mom would say: "You do what I say, not what I do!"
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Cab rules can be different from city to city.

Maybe most cops are good but we've seen too many of them watch bad cops be bad and do nothing.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

GreenGoo wrote:Whatever you do, don't share it with us. :D
Well, it's some irresponsible speculation. When I get to a real keyboard I'll try to put it delicately.


Why a gun was drawn inside the car and why the guy shot across his partner, let alone muzzled him... the kindest interpretation is absolute panic. I guess an attractive 40-year-old yoga instructor who called to report a crime in which she was neither perp or victim is similar to a friendly terrier wagging his tail in his own back yard. Maybe.

But other speculation is an AD/ND or perhaps an argument where they tried to intimidate her. Like I said need a keyboard to put those theories properly.





Regardless, there's also the idea that MPD training isn't ip to snuff. Those two dogs that were shot were also MPD. That was what, a week before?
Body can footage

Also worth noting, the woman who was shot and her fiance were/are white, wealthy, and big movers in the DFL party so reaction should be relatively wide reaching and swift. The mayor just sacrificed the police chief but she's probably next. With no complaints here. The leadership is failing the PD and citizenry.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Punisher wrote:
Paingod wrote:There are many videos of honest citizens standing up for their rights and forcing cops to back down - or forcing cops to admit they're just bullies. One example.
From watching the video, it sounds like this guy is known in the area.. He seems to know the 2nd cop and the 2nd cop seems to know him... My personal feeling is that the guy like to go around trolling the cops waiting for something like this to happen.. maybe for kicks.. maybe for clicks...
I agree that the guy is clearly known in the area. His whole purpose seems to be to keep the cops relatively honest by keeping a light on behind them so they don't get too into their authority. I actually appreciate people doing this. Some see it as harassing cops, I see it as keeping public servants honest and educated. They don't get enough training in the station, or situations like this wouldn't happen.
Punisher wrote:Most of the videos I have seen have people resisting arrest by claiming the arrest is illegal or other such things.. That is not helpful..Especially if you are already recording them. Just comply stay quiet and show the video to your attorney then sue for damages. During the arrest is not the time to argue...
I completely agree, and never intended anything I wrote to be taken as "Resist Arrest". What I advocate is "Resist Unlawful Orders" by knowing and exerting your rights when you interact with the police. So many of them rely heavily on violating basic rights within moments of a stop or interaction that it's disturbing. The second they tell you you're under arrest or attempt to arrest you, you need to comply or you're giving them easy ammo for additional charges. At that point you do nothing, say nothing, shut up, and ask for a lawyer.

Up to that point, I think it's good for them to know that people have rights. Depending on your area:
  • It's very likely that you're allowed to record police activity for your protection, or from a safe distance
    • Police like to push "Safe Distance" out to a point where recording becomes much less useful, but still keeps them honest
  • You don't need to present any kind of ID or give them your personal information just because they ask for it during a random interaction or non-criminal stop
    • If it's criminal or they're writing a ticket, obviously you comply. I think Utah and Arizona are okay with being "police states" and are exceptions
  • You never need to consent to searches
    • A Constitutional Right
  • You never need to answer a single question - simply say "I decline to answer any questions"
    • Anything you say will be used against you, even well-meaning statements, and you can screw yourself accidentally
  • You probably don't need to roll down your window more than a few inches to talk to them in a normal traffic stop
    • Asking you to roll your window down further is essentially asking you to consent to a cursory search
  • You don't need to get out of your car unless you're being arrested
    • Ask if you're being arrested. If not, decline to get out. If you are, comply.
  • You may not need to roll down your window -at all- during a random DUI checkpoint stop
    • In some places, this is seen as an illegal stop & search, and rolling down your window can give them a "whiff" of suspicion needed to give you DUI test
There's some more, but a lot of videos cover these things and show how to use them correctly to make sure the police don't just trash your rights at the start of an interaction. A good cop will understand what you're doing and work with it. A bad/ignorant cop will escalate and you should ask for their supervisor.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Isgrimnur »

Paingod wrote:You don't need to present any kind of ID or give them your personal information just because they ask for it during a random interaction or non-criminal stop
If it's criminal or they're writing a ticket, obviously you comply. I think Utah and Arizona are okay with being "police states" and are exceptions
Stop and identify laws are more prevalent than those two states, as well as nuanced.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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I was working on old data; my bad. Everything needs to be prefaced with "Check your local laws"

I know it's an uphill battle against police unions, but can't we find some way to enforce "Body Cams On All The Time" ... ? I'm losing count on the number of times a cop does something wrong and they forgot to turn the evidence gathering tools on.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

As in the last example, did they 'forget' or did they deliberately not turn them on??? Why is the police person able to control them in the first place?? I don't understand that.

In Los Angeles, there is a huge power struggle between the police union and the civil commission that is involved with policing. Hopefully the civil commission becomes an elected panel and will have large oversight powers over issues such as these.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Lorini wrote:As in the last example, did they 'forget' or did they deliberately not turn them on??? Why is the police person able to control them in the first place?? I don't understand that.
I think, sitting in their car, they probably didn't think they'd need them on. As someone who toggles my phone to vibrate regularly for work, it's far too easy to forget to turn it on or off - and I can't imagine they have even 70% accuracy in turning on these things if they have control over it. The whole system should be automated and impossible to tamper with, and any tampering results in disciplinary measures. The public knows they have these tools now and the tide is turning against police abuses.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

While I understand you can forget about your phone, it's not nearly as important for you to do that as it is for them to turn on body cameras. Body cameras protect the city from lawsuit, they can provide insight as to where more training is needed, they can verify police misconduct and other stuff. Honestly, comparing the two is ridiculous, no disrespect to you personally, I appreciate what you are posting here.
The whole system should be automated and impossible to tamper with, and any tampering results in disciplinary measures. The public knows they have these tools now and the tide is turning against police abuses.
Yes I may do some research to find out if here in LA they are always on, and if not, then why.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Lorini wrote:While I understand you can forget about your phone, it's not nearly as important for you to do that as it is for them to turn on body cameras. Body cameras protect the city from lawsuit, they can provide insight as to where more training is needed, they can verify police misconduct and other stuff. Honestly, comparing the two is ridiculous, no disrespect to you personally, I appreciate what you are posting here.
None taken. I just don't have anything even remotely similar to work with. Working in IT, any important system I deal with is automated, and my biggest challenge on that is to check to make sure the automation still runs and fix it if it breaks.

Adding layers of potential for human failure in a critical system that could be run by a computer isn't just a design flaw, it's negligent.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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First in line for a self-driving car?
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Paingod »

Isgrimnur wrote:First in line for a self-driving car?
I would be, actually. It'll be an odd experience, but we can probably save thousands of lives each year by removing the element of human error. Of course, if even a hundred people die because of the technology, it'll be a problem - though many more are saved.

With cars driving people around, I'm not sure who the cops would ticket.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Zarathud »

Many citizens do not want to be interviewed by police, let alone by those wearing recording devices.

It's not just the police who aren't happy with the cameras.
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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Zarathud wrote:
It's not just the police who aren't happy with the cameras.

Truth.
Spoiler:
Alderman demands to cut through an active crime scene investigation to get home. Is possibly drunk, acts like an ass.
He's recording with his phone the whole time but never released his footage and tried to block bodycam tapes once it came out that they existed.
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Lorini
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Zarathud wrote:Many citizens do not want to be interviewed by police, let alone by those wearing recording devices.

It's not just the police who aren't happy with the cameras.
At least here in Los Angeles there are strict rules regarding public release of the footage. Now I'm not sure if they've been tested in court, but I know that not all footage is available outside of the police, and what is available has been reviewed internally and by the civilian police commission.

Whether or not a person is videotaped is not under their control, they may not realize it but there's few places you can go nowadays where you aren't videotaped, and in California at least they don't need your permission nor do you have to inform them they are being videotaped.
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gameoverman
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by gameoverman »

One time I got pulled over for running a stop sign. It was near my home, a T intersection. The north/south street was the part I was on, with the east street being the I part of the T. I ran the sign because from the north or the south you can clearly see about 1/3 a block of that east bound street, and I saw the intersection was completely deserted, no cars or pedestrians. So I rolled right through without even slowing down.

Of course, my luck, there was a cop parked just far enough down that street that I couldn't see him. He pulled me over. After I gave him my paperwork, he seemed to decide something then he said "I can't give you a break. There's a school a few blocks down that way and there could be kids around".

My first inclination was to point out "I didn't ask you to cut me a break" but the talking shiat side of me lost to the self preserving side of me and I kept my mouth shut. I got a ticket, which I fought and won btw but that's a different story.

In some of these 'cops behaving badly' stories I can't help but notice the civilians didn't do or say the self preserving thing. Believe me, I really, REALLY wanted to wise off to that cop. The way he implied I was hoping he'd cut me a break irritated me, I very much wanted to point out that I didn't give a shiat what he had to say about anything. But you can't indulge that side of yourself unless you're willing to get your ass kicked or worse. In the end, I wasn't willing to flush my good day down the toilet.
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Punisher
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Paingod wrote:
Punisher wrote:
Paingod wrote:There are many videos of honest citizens standing up for their rights and forcing cops to back down - or forcing cops to admit they're just bullies. One example.
From watching the video, it sounds like this guy is known in the area.. He seems to know the 2nd cop and the 2nd cop seems to know him... My personal feeling is that the guy like to go around trolling the cops waiting for something like this to happen.. maybe for kicks.. maybe for clicks...
I agree that the guy is clearly known in the area. His whole purpose seems to be to keep the cops relatively honest by keeping a light on behind them so they don't get too into their authority. I actually appreciate people doing this. Some see it as harassing cops, I see it as keeping public servants honest and educated. They don't get enough training in the station, or situations like this wouldn't happen.
While the cop in the video could have handled it better, it does sound like the guy was circling an active crime scene.. IF that was the case, I can see it as a distraction to the cop doing his job if he needs to keep an eye on a car circling his crime scene.. It's one more thing he needs to worry about that he shouldn't....
I don't have a problem with keeping cops honest... I just feel that a lot of these videos have nothing to do with that..It's either someone looking to get youtube hits or people practicing Internet Law without actually knowing what they are talking about and are going to get other idiots in trouble... Yes, there are clearly bad cops and bad cops caught on video...
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Unagi
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Unagi »

Punisher wrote:It's one more thing he needs to worry about that he shouldn't....
But the end of it is, he needs to deal with that and not attack/engage the interested/concerned citizen. The officer is freaking out on the citizen because he sucks.
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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Why a gun was drawn inside the car and why the guy shot across his partner, let alone muzzled him... the kindest interpretation is absolute panic. I guess an attractive 40-year-old yoga instructor who called to report a crime in which she was neither perp or victim is similar to a friendly terrier wagging his tail in his own back yard. Maybe.

But other speculation is an AD/ND or perhaps an argument where they tried to intimidate her. Like I said need a keyboard to put those theories properly.


Regardless, there's also the idea that MPD training isn't ip to snuff. Those two dogs that were shot were also MPD. That was what, a week before?
Body can footage
Image


Word now is that they're saying they thought it was an ambush.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Isgrimnur »

Unagi wrote:
Punisher wrote:It's one more thing he needs to worry about that he shouldn't....
But the end of it is, he needs to deal with that and not attack/engage the interested/concerned citizen. The officer is freaking out on the citizen because he sucks.
Because having a person actively watching you that you don't know if he/she is armed, an accomplice to said crime, or just someone looking to ambush a cop is certainly the officer should ignore. /s
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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