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Cops behaving badly

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:15 pm
I read that whole thing and I'm still just as confused as ever. Am I right in that no one knows what happened and the police still aren't releasing the identities of the police from several cars responding to the incident and they consider the arrest justified because he resisted arrest even as there is no evidence he resisted arrest?

My comprehension is terrible. That can't be right, can it?
He wasn't arrested as far as I can tell. He was told he was being arrested but then released on scene.



I don't want to say no harm no foul but I've had a gun at my head with cops on the trigger end on two separate occasions. Both due to mistaken identity, one for being brown enough. I walked away both times and that was that. No harm, no foul. There were actual shootings that happened in the vicinity and I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.


But this could be different. I'm goin to speculate wildly that someone called in a bullshit call that had no merit and these guys came in hot and ready to take down a black kid. Arrest or not the first two guys should be looking for new jobs.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:15 pm
I don't want to say no harm no foul but I've had a gun at my head with cops on the trigger end on two separate occasions. Both due to mistaken identity, one for being brown enough. I walked away both times and that was that. No harm, no foul. There were actual shootings that happened in the vicinity and I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Yeah - the trouble here is no one explained anything and the local and state folks are actively resisting any accountability. It is reasonable with the power at play here for people to expect to hold them accountable. The lack of accountability only encourages risk taking/bad behavior out of line with the public's expectations.
But this could be different. I'm goin to speculate wildly that someone called in a bullshit call that had no merit and these guys came in hot and ready to take down a black kid. Arrest or not the first two guys should be looking for new jobs.
This. There was a marked bus there. He was wearing a jacket with that name on it. They didn't even bother to assess the situation before they were threatening his life at gunpoint. Then they pulled the usual bullshit to escape accountability (claiming he resisted, etc.)

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Police arrest 6 year old girl

I mean seriously. And who called the police in the first place?
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Do we want police trained to be law enforcement officers or social workers? Can't have it both ways. Or maybe you can, kind of. Just be ready to pay for it.

And if a school can't handle an unruly 6-year-old on their own, I think there's a problem with the school. When you bring in a sledgehammer to drive in a tack, things can get broken.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Apparently this policeman was assigned to the school. I do hope you are not saying the little girl deserved to be arrested??? I'm unsure of your social work reference, Law.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Lorini wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:40 pm
Apparently this policeman was assigned to the school. I do hope you are not saying the little girl deserved to be arrested??? I'm unsure of your social work reference, Law.
They assign cops to schools and then have them handle behavior problems. They need to assign more counselors and social workers to schools.

In Chicago CPS just approved $30M to pay CPD to enforce discipline in schools. It's is crazy. These aren't people trained to work with kids. They are cops with the seniority or clout to get a "soft" assignment in schools. It's a farce.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

So you are looking at the bigger problem of having them there in the first place. I do believe though that the cop was wrong to arrest the 6 year old girl, no matter what the bigger picture is.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Combustible Lemur »

It's a complicated thing. That officer was clearly wrong and appropriately fired but School Resource Officers are often valuable and necessary additions to a campus. I don't know much about their roles on elementary schools, but at the high school level they can be the best way to deal with criminal acts. Drug dealing, vandalism, assault, etc are commonplace. And typically SRO'S arent used for none criminal discipline, or at least they shouldn't be. We can empower administrators to use force and pay for all the additional training and resources that calls for or have an SRO available and ready. Note cops make less than principals. (I think) Not to mention the value of security having police already on site in case of outside issues. Good SRO's are trained in youth intervention, mental health issues, and conflict de-escalation. They spend a lot of their time walking around observing, interacting, building relationships, and just being a stable presence. Some are bad. Some are assholes. Most I've worked with were good, and good with the school and kids

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Altho I think the cop went too far and got what he deserved how does the school handle this little girl?
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Alefroth »

Are Miranda rights read to 6 year olds?

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Combustible Lemur wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:57 pm
It's a complicated thing. That officer was clearly wrong and appropriately fired but School Resource Officers are often valuable and necessary additions to a campus. I don't know much about their roles on elementary schools, but at the high school level they can be the best way to deal with criminal acts. Drug dealing, vandalism, assault, etc are commonplace. And typically SRO'S arent used for none criminal discipline, or at least they shouldn't be. We can empower administrators to use force and pay for all the additional training and resources that calls for or have an SRO available and ready. Note cops make less than principals. (I think) Not to mention the value of security having police already on site in case of outside issues. Good SRO's are trained in youth intervention, mental health issues, and conflict de-escalation. They spend a lot of their time walking around observing, interacting, building relationships, and just being a stable presence. Some are bad. Some are assholes. Most I've worked with were good, and good with the school and kids

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At the high school level it's much different. I can see how high schoolers could need to be arrested. But not six year olds.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Alefroth wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:43 pm
Are Miranda rights read to 6 year olds?
What should happen is that their parent or guardian would need to be there before anything else happened. Don't know what happened here.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

dbt1949 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:00 pm
Altho I think the cop went too far and got what he deserved how does the school handle this little girl?
Depends on the school I'm sure.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Combustible Lemur »

Lorini wrote:
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:57 pm
It's a complicated thing. That officer was clearly wrong and appropriately fired but School Resource Officers are often valuable and necessary additions to a campus. I don't know much about their roles on elementary schools, but at the high school level they can be the best way to deal with criminal acts. Drug dealing, vandalism, assault, etc are commonplace. And typically SRO'S arent used for none criminal discipline, or at least they shouldn't be. We can empower administrators to use force and pay for all the additional training and resources that calls for or have an SRO available and ready. Note cops make less than principals. (I think) Not to mention the value of security having police already on site in case of outside issues. Good SRO's are trained in youth intervention, mental health issues, and conflict de-escalation. They spend a lot of their time walking around observing, interacting, building relationships, and just being a stable presence. Some are bad. Some are assholes. Most I've worked with were good, and good with the school and kids

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At the high school level it's much different. I can see how high schoolers could need to be arrested. But not six year olds.
Agreed, it sounds like (and I have zero first hand knowledge) the school doesn't have protocols for mental health triggered violent students.
Theres a whole classification and training involved with students who become threatening. It's a disruption, but not criminal.
The tricky part is, sometimes kids get violent, but it's not acceptable anymore for school employees to lay hands on students, but we can't use law enforcement, but we can't fund schools and enable the government to develop a class of force enabled Healthcare professionals to staff schools. Clearly this school failed at the balance, but schools and kids in general are great at creating impossible situations

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by dbt1949 »

In Oklahoma they have a law that says if the kid misses too much school one of the parents goes to jail.
I think the parents probably didn't raise her right. So perhaps they need to pass a law there saying that if the student acts up the parent should be held responsible.
Just a thought.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

dbt1949 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:08 am
In Oklahoma they have a law that says if the kid misses too much school one of the parents goes to jail.
I think the parents probably didn't raise her right. So perhaps they need to pass a law there saying that if the student acts up the parent should be held responsible.
Just a thought.
I thought this was already a thing? Underage children are the responsibility of the child, even legally...
Need a legal expert here to verify.


Also, I am curious as to what everyone who thinks it was wrong to arrest the child thinks should have been done instead? Assuming the report is correct, the child was acting out and battering people.
Should everyone, SRO included just stand there and let it happen? If so, what if someone, child included, get hurt because she wasn't stopped? Is anyone responsible for that?
Also, as people mentioned, the SRO was probably not trained in dealing with situations like this. It was probably a cop who was transferred or getting OT and handling it just like he would if he was in the outside world.
Yes, everyone gets sensitive that it was only a child, but she was committing a crime, so what would you expect to be done?
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

The cop could have restrained her. The school can't but the cop can. There's no point in taking her to a police station. If she got handcuffed there'd probably still be some outcry but to arrest a 6 year old is over the top and unnecessary.

When you want to talk about 'committing a crime' I think you're going way out there if you think six year olds can even commit crimes. I guess you agree with the manager calling the cops on a 3 year old because she grabbed a toy and took it with her outside the store??? I mean c'mon. Committing a crime should at least require some sense of what's wrong and right yes?
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:54 pm
The cop could have restrained her. The school can't but the cop can. There's no point in taking her to a police station. If she got handcuffed there'd probably still be some outcry but to arrest a 6 year old is over the top and unnecessary.

When you want to talk about 'committing a crime' I think you're going way out there if you think six year olds can even commit crimes. I guess you agree with the manager calling the cops on a 3 year old because she grabbed a toy and took it with her outside the store??? I mean c'mon. Committing a crime should at least require some sense of what's wrong and right yes?
It was too much for sure. But what is he cop trained to do? They never just detain someone and just sit there babysitting them. Or does he turn a cuffed kid over to the school? Not the right personnel for the job.

Also, arrest doesn't mean charges. I doubt anything got filed.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Combustible Lemur »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Lorini wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:54 pm
The cop could have restrained her. The school can't but the cop can. There's no point in taking her to a police station. If she got handcuffed there'd probably still be some outcry but to arrest a 6 year old is over the top and unnecessary.

When you want to talk about 'committing a crime' I think you're going way out there if you think six year olds can even commit crimes. I guess you agree with the manager calling the cops on a 3 year old because she grabbed a toy and took it with her outside the store??? I mean c'mon. Committing a crime should at least require some sense of what's wrong and right yes?
It was too much for sure. But what is he cop trained to do? They never just detain someone and just sit there babysitting them. Or does he turn a cuffed kid over to the school? Not the right personnel for the job.

Also, arrest doesn't mean charges. I doubt anything got filed.
Potentially, yes. Our cops question and investigate without arrest all the time. That's WHY they are SRO's and not beat cops. (I don't know the correct phrase)
And also yes to Lorini. The cop is there to have the physical authority that parents have removed from the school personnel.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

Exactly, as I'm saying I can understand if she was handcuffed. But a full arrest seems over the top.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Lorini wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:49 pm
Exactly, as I'm saying I can understand if she was handcuffed. But a full arrest seems over the top.
As mentioned, an arrest doesn't mean charges. Maybe the child was arrested because that is his training or an SOP once they detain anybody.
Maybe it was a case of trying to show that there are consequences for the child's actions and maybe teach them a lesson. Maybe this child has a history of this we don't know about. (Potential mental or emotional or potential asshole child who thinks they can just get away with whatever they want)
Should this be the parent's responsibility? Sure, but they aren't there right that second. Should this child have received or been receiving counseling? Sure, but again, right then and there the child needs to be stopped.
If your only contention is the arrest part, then I can kind of see your point, but still think an arrest with no charges can make a point with the child.
If your contention is the restraining part, then again, what should he have done? just walked away?
I know many SRO's in my area are either off-duty cops on OT, Active cops assigned to a school, retired cops, and in some cases (mostly private schools) armed and unarmed security guards.
None of them have any special training for kids or counseling or anything outside what they were taught at the academy or in some cases, extra classes.
They are put in these situations and are handling it the way they are trained. Should we have better training for them or specially trained officers for these jobs? Sure. but that's not the reality and it's not the officers' fault (Especially the ones that just get assigned the duty shift).
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

I seriously doubt that an 'arrest with no charges' has any meaning to a six year old.

I’m done with discussing this with you.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Lorini wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:52 am
I seriously doubt that an 'arrest with no charges' has any meaning to a six year old.

I’m done with discussing this with you.
That's, fine. I will respond anyway. Not to rile anyone up, but because I think this is still a good discussion to have.

I never said it has no meaning, and I, in fact, implied the opposite. I said that it could have a possible positive impact, but again as I mentioned, it also depends on the history of this.
I had a friend growing up who wasn't a really bad or nasty person, but he did tend to shoplift and steal as a kid... I knew about it when I was around 8 or 9 but it was happening since before then for sure.
He always got away with it either by the family who did minor punishing of him when caught stealing a few dollars from them or by stores that didn't catch him (He wasn't walking out with 30 inch TV's)
This kept going right until he got caught by a store with a 100% arrest policy. No matter how minor, they made sure to call the cops and press charges both as a deterrent and also as an assumption (rightly so) that most of the time someone is caught, chances are that it wasn't their first time stealing, just their first time getting caught) It was a bunch of silly crap of less than $100. Some small toys and comic books and whatnot. He had been getting greedy and not just grabbing stuff and going, but also grabbing stuff, hiding it outside and going back for a few trips if needed.
This was the first time that he was really in trouble. The store called his parents since he was 12 at that time and still a minor, but just had them wait for the police to show up. They came and took him out in handcuffs.
The prosecutor worked with the store and the parents' attorney and ended up getting him off with a minor fine and some community service and probation. Basically, as long as he stayed clean for 2 years, that would be that, but if he was caught for anything else, they would void the deal and prosecute fully (which probably wouldn't have been a much bigger deal based on the dollar amount, but he was told he was looking at serious jail time)
To the best of my knowledge he never stole again in the time I still lived in the area. No idea what happened to him, where he is now, or if he went back to his bad ways, but for the remaining years I knew him, he seemed "clean"

So while this isn't the same exact thing, I also don't know this kids history and maybe this will be a wakeup call for her (if it was needed)

You previously said, "When you want to talk about 'committing a crime' I think you're going way out there if you think six year olds can even commit crimes."
One of the points of my story was the age of my friend. He was stealing (I'm pretty sure it was a crime, even back in the 70's and 80's when I grew up)
While age has some bearing on situations, I dislike when people completely dismiss everything else when children are involved.
Are there cases where police or SRO's or even just school security guards abuse their power? absolutely. Are there cases where seemingly these same people are "going too far" but are really justified for it? absolutely.
Do police, SRO's, etc need more training for things like this? possibly. But I'll go a step further and say that they should probably just not be involved in the first place. Let them be there to protect from outside threats and, while it's subjective, things that are leading to serious bodily injury against someone and have the parents deal with the rest. I'd even advocate for build a safe padded room in every school and if a child of ANY age is acting out violently, they get locked in, monitored for safety and have their parents called to come and get them. Then make it the parents call if they want to call police with the understanding that the police are NOT there to talk anyone down but at that point are there to subdue and arrest the child on the parents' authority.
I expect there would be mass outrage that we are now locking children in padded rooms though.
I think we place WAY too many hats on police and don't properly train them and expect them to be able to deal with things that they have no training in. We might as well take a random OOer to go to the school to deal with an unruly, violent, or mentally troubled child. They probably do need professional health, but if a cop had a child psychology degree they'd probably be a child psychologist instead of a cop. (This also goes along with my feelings when we expect them to identify and deal with mentally troubled adults as well)
You don't call the fire department and expect them to defuse a bomb, do you?
Since none of us know the whole history of this incident a lot of what we say is subjective and filled with conjecture and I'm just offering possible explanations for what is truly going on.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Punisher wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:30 pm
So while this isn't the same exact thing, I also don't know this kids history and maybe this will be a wakeup call for her (if it was needed)
A wakeup call for a 6 year old? Perhaps you have only experienced precocious children. In my experience, they won't correlate the cause and effect for several more years.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

i do appreciate you taking the time to explain, Punisher. The thing is, that's ONE kid you know about. ONE. That's not enough to base conclusions about what's going to happen to this six year old. It's simply not. The kid you knew may be an aberration or may be typical but you have no way of knowing which without consulting with those with expertise in this area. Testimonial evidence is about the worst evidence you can make conclusions from, seriously.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Lorini wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:46 am
i do appreciate you taking the time to explain, Punisher. The thing is, that's ONE kid you know about. ONE. That's not enough to base conclusions about what's going to happen to this six year old. It's simply not. The kid you knew may be an aberration or may be typical but you have no way of knowing which without consulting with those with expertise in this area. Testimonial evidence is about the worst evidence you can make conclusions from, seriously.
Again, just to be clear. I don't think I made any conclusions, just offered possibilities (or at least that was my intention).
First, let me state that I am overall pro law enforcement. This is for a lot of reasons and personal experience so keep that in mind with my posts in this discussion.
I will also be the first to admit that there are plenty of people who should not and never should have been law enforcement (or security for that matter), Yes they are and should be held to a higher standard, but let's face it, they are also human with human flaws so the wrong people do make it through (and with most places I know, once you are past probation, it can be difficult-impossible to fire someone)
That being said, I do tend to side with them by default and will give my opinions on other possibilities.
While we have seen plenty of videos or read articles on bad cops, we don't see what happens in some of those cases where the video didn't show the whole thing or the news report misreported or left out facts and the cop was 1000% in the right. A lot of quick judgement goes on the second a cop is accused of something regardless of whether the whole story is outed or not.
Lots of huge deals are made about it, but the second the cop is shown to be in the right, the story dies a quick death and in a lot of cases, the corrections are never made known.
This is why I will usually go to the defense of them first.
I wasn't there for this or any of the other incidents. I'm just taking what is given to us and offering some other options/opinions as to why things may not be as they seem.
Since the news/Internet has made a permanent habit of just giving us a bit of sensationalism (and it's not just for cop related stories either...headlines are headlines) to get our attention and get people talking and clicking.
For this specific case, I'd like to know what went on before, during and after the incident. Preferably with video from start to finish.
Here is what I think is a good example of what I am referring to about not always getting the whole story.
So again, I am not concluding anything because I don't think we have the whole story, nor all the facts. I'm offering other options... I guess as a defense attorney might. (Note: I am not an attorney, but I do like playing one on the Internet)
I am also not attacking anyone in here, in case someone feels that way. (and I know nobody has mentioned that. I just want to make sure it's clear on my end) I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion/debate. (Yes while it's crazy to think it's possible on the Internet and I am on some heavy meds, I have found this forum to be mostly civilized and courteous. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother being here.)
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Lorini »

I will say that even before TV, marginalized communities have been devastated by either what the cops did do or what they didn't do and were supposed to do. You're free to believe that 'the whole story wasn't told' or whatever but you really need to do some reading regarding the impact of racist policing.

At any rate, there's no scenario which will convince me that a six year old deserved to be arrested so I think this discussion is indeed over.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Isgrimnur »

The video, which was provided Monday to NBC affiliate WESH of Orlando by the attorney for the child's family, shows the incident on Sept. 19, which resulted in the firing of Orlando police Officer Dennis Turner.

Turner was involved in the arrest of two 6-year-olds in one week in September, among them the girl in the video. He was fired within days.
Orlando Police Chief Orlando Rolón announced that school resource officer Dennis Turner was terminated as a result of arresting the two children without the approval of a commanding officer.
...
Turner was a reserve officer, meaning he served at the will of the chief and could be fired before the end of an investigation, according to Rolón.
...
A second child, a 6-year-old boy, was arrested in a separate incident at the same school, was processed and later released to a relative.
...
Rolón told reporters Monday that Turner had a previous incident "in his personal life" involving his child that was investigated by a neighboring police department. An internal investigation sustained the allegations and Turner was disciplined at the time.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Alefroth »

Punisher wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:05 pm

Yes, everyone gets sensitive that it was only a child, but she was committing a crime, so what would you expect to be done?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy

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Pyperkub
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Punisher wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:49 pm
Lorini wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:46 am
i do appreciate you taking the time to explain, Punisher. The thing is, that's ONE kid you know about. ONE. That's not enough to base conclusions about what's going to happen to this six year old. It's simply not. The kid you knew may be an aberration or may be typical but you have no way of knowing which without consulting with those with expertise in this area. Testimonial evidence is about the worst evidence you can make conclusions from, seriously.
Again, just to be clear. I don't think I made any conclusions, just offered possibilities (or at least that was my intention).
First, let me state that I am overall pro law enforcement. This is for a lot of reasons and personal experience so keep that in mind with my posts in this discussion.
I will also be the first to admit that there are plenty of people who should not and never should have been law enforcement (or security for that matter), Yes they are and should be held to a higher standard, but let's face it, they are also human with human flaws so the wrong people do make it through (and with most places I know, once you are past probation, it can be difficult-impossible to fire someone)
That being said, I do tend to side with them by default and will give my opinions on other possibilities.
While we have seen plenty of videos or read articles on bad cops, we don't see what happens in some of those cases where the video didn't show the whole thing or the news report misreported or left out facts and the cop was 1000% in the right. A lot of quick judgement goes on the second a cop is accused of something regardless of whether the whole story is outed or not.
Lots of huge deals are made about it, but the second the cop is shown to be in the right, the story dies a quick death and in a lot of cases, the corrections are never made known.
This is why I will usually go to the defense of them first.
I wasn't there for this or any of the other incidents. I'm just taking what is given to us and offering some other options/opinions as to why things may not be as they seem.
Since the news/Internet has made a permanent habit of just giving us a bit of sensationalism (and it's not just for cop related stories either...headlines are headlines) to get our attention and get people talking and clicking.
For this specific case, I'd like to know what went on before, during and after the incident. Preferably with video from start to finish.
Here is what I think is a good example of what I am referring to about not always getting the whole story.
So again, I am not concluding anything because I don't think we have the whole story, nor all the facts. I'm offering other options... I guess as a defense attorney might. (Note: I am not an attorney, but I do like playing one on the Internet)
I am also not attacking anyone in here, in case someone feels that way. (and I know nobody has mentioned that. I just want to make sure it's clear on my end) I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion/debate. (Yes while it's crazy to think it's possible on the Internet and I am on some heavy meds, I have found this forum to be mostly civilized and courteous. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother being here.)
I'll go back to this 538 analysis of predicting bad cops in Chicago -(from 2015, still applies):
The “few bad apples” theory of police violence posits that a small portion of the police force is ill-intentioned or inclined to misconduct or violence, while the majority of officers are good cops. Until recently, this theory was difficult for civilians to investigate, but department data on complaints against officers obtained through a legal challenge shows that police misconduct in Chicago is overwhelmingly the product of a small fraction of officers and that it may be possible to identify those officers and reduce misconduct.
Image
Over multiple years, the signal becomes even stronger. Officers with a baseline history of one or two complaints in 2011-13 have a 30 percent to 37 percent chance of receiving a complaint in the following two years.2 But repeaters — those with 15 or 20 incidents in the first part of the data set — are almost certain to have a complaint against them in 2014-15.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by Punisher »

Alefroth wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:35 pm
Punisher wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:05 pm

Yes, everyone gets sensitive that it was only a child, but she was committing a crime, so what would you expect to be done?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy
Well. That was interesting. Never heard of that, however it seems that where this took place the minimum age is...0... so even I’m willing to admit that is too young.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Prosecutorial misconduct is now a potential personal liability.
The prosecutor is real, too: He is Orleans Parish District Attorney Leon Cannizzaro—a near-mythical figure in prosecutorial accountability circles since no prosecutor routinely breaks the law quite like him.

For many years, DA Cannizzaro sent fake, illegal subpoenas like the one above to witnesses and crime survivors—including victims of child molestation and child pornography. He has bragged on television about jailing rape victims as material witnesses to their own rapes. When local police coerced a man to give false testimony in a murder case, Cannizzaro charged the man with a count that carried 40 years in prison.

He even charged at least six staffers at the public defender’s office with crimes for doing their jobs...

...For the first time, it looks like Cannizzaro’s reign of terror is coming back to haunt him. The US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit decided on April 21 that, when it comes to the fake subpoenas, Cannizzaro and his prosecutors are not entitled to “absolute immunity” from lawsuits, which prosecutors usually receive in the course of doing their jobs.

Instead, the prosecutors now get only “qualified immunity,” like the police do—because they decided to act like bad cops by tricking people into talking to them in furtherance of an investigation.

Absolute immunity, while not quite “absolute” by the normal meaning of the term, still shields bad prosecutors from liability with virtual certainty. Qualified immunity is much easier for someone suing to overcome.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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CNN
The FBI has opened an investigation into the shooting death of Breonna Taylor, an EMT who was killed after officers forced their way inside her home.
...
In March, Taylor was shot at least eight times when three officers forcibly entered her apartment to serve a search warrant in a narcotics investigation. The department said the men announced themselves and returned gunfire when Taylor's boyfriend fired at them.

But in a wrongful death lawsuit, Taylor's mother says the officers didn't knock at all and should have called off their search because the suspect they sought had already been arrested.
...
Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, was arrested and charged with attempted murder of a police officer and first-degree assault. He was released for home incarceration and is scheduled to appear in court in late June.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Not sure if there’s another thread on the Ahmaud Arbery shooting, but the more I’ve read about this one, the worse it is. Arrests are finally being made, including the guy who filmed the whole thing, who was arrested today.

And while this isn’t necessarily cops behaving badly, video has surfaced of Arbery’s prior experience with the police when they tried (but failed) to use a taser on him.

Check out the 2017 video of that incident here if you haven’t already seen it.

After watching that, I wanted to put my fist through a wall. I can’t imagine what this guy’s life was like having to deal with police like this.

I’m going to make my kids watch that video. I think it really drives home how fucked up racial policing is and how far we still have to go in this country regarding racial issues.
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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There's been some discussion in the shootings thread, with the usual sidetracks.
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Re: Cops behaving badly

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CNN
Prosecutors in Kentucky have filed a motion to drop attempted murder and assault charges against Kenneth Walker, the boyfriend of slain EMT Breonna Taylor, according to Commonwealth's Attorney Tom Wine.
...
Wine maintained there had been neither misleading testimony by the detective in this case nor any ethical breaches, as Walker's attorney claimed, but the prosecutor said, "more should have been presented to the grand jury, including the statement of Kenneth Walker."

"I believe that additional investigation is necessary, I believe that the independent investigation by the Attorney General's Office of Kentucky, the FBI, and the US Attorney's Office must be completed before we go forward with any prosecution," Wine said. "If after those reviews, we believe there is sufficient evidence to present this matter to the grand jury, we will do so. And if he wishes to testify before the grand jury, Kenneth Walker will be given that opportunity."

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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The Hill
Four Minneapolis police officers were fired on Tuesday after video emerged showing an officer kneeling on the neck of an unarmed black man who died following the arrest.

Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo announced that the officers involved in the arrest were now "former employees," CBS Minnesota reported. The officers have not been named.
...
The decision came amid escalating outrage over footage showing a police officer using his knee to pin a black man to the pavement by his neck as he repeatedly said, "I cannot breathe."

The man, identified as George Floyd by his family's attorney, died of a "medical incident" after being detained by officers, the Minneapolis Police Department said Monday.

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Re: Cops behaving badly

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Yeah, Minneapolis is kind of rioting down right now. Rain may save the day.


They sure have had their share if bad shoots/force in the last few years.



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Re: Cops behaving badly

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" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

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Re: Cops behaving badly

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Apparently there is a right way and a wrong way to protest.
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