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[TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

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YellowKing
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[TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by YellowKing » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:56 am

I'm a HUGE Batman fan, so I went into Gotham with a mix of excitement and trepidation. Would this be a gritty crime procedural (yay!), a Smallville clone (meh), or Batman Babies (NOOOOOOO)?

Perhaps it is a mixture of all three, but fortunately I felt they leaned more towards the gritty crime side of the spectrum. They could still spin this thing totally off the rails with the Arkham Asylum Junior League, but I'm hoping they will show some restraint.

What I liked:

Fish Mooney - I've never been the world's biggest Jada Pinkett Smith fan, but she was fantastic in this role and fits right into the Gotham universe.

Penguin - This is a tough villain to get right because the whole concept is so campy from the start. But I loved his portrayal in this show. The key to making The Penguin "scary" is to make him ruthlessly cruel, and they really got the point across that this guy was not to be trifled with.

Gotham - Gotham is a main character in the Batman stories, and is as important to the mythos as the origin story and the costume. You get Gotham wrong, your Batman falls apart. Fortunately I felt they did the city justice. It's ugly, it's crowded, and there's an underlying sense of hopelessness permeating the atmosphere.

Limited focus on Bruce - I think this is what will keep this show from being Smallville 2.0. The focus is on Gordon and the city, and not Bruce (at least for now). I think that's where it needs to stay.

What I didn't like:

Too much too soon - One episode in and we've already seen Bruce Wayne orphaned, the rise of The Penguin, and cameos by The Riddler, Poison Ivy, and Catwoman. You could tell they were really trying to cram as much Batman into the pilot as they possibly could to get this thing greenlit. I'm hoping they'll slow the pace down. Every superhero movie where they try to cram multiple villains in ends up sucking. I'm fine with cameos, but let Penguin take center stage this season and leave everyone else in the background.

Selina Kyle/Poison Ivy - This part of the show scares me the most, because it's where things could so quickly spiral into suck. I'm fine with seeing the villains as youngsters, but I have these nightmarish visions of Selina and Bruce sharing a first kiss or something. To my knowledge there's never been any storylines in the comics where Selina meets Bruce that young, so they've got to be super careful where they tread. As for Poison Ivy, I'm not sure why you even introduce her at that age. She's far too young to actually do anything but take up space, and she's not an important enough character that I fully understand why they felt the need to tie her in so early.

At any rate, I came out of it not only pleasantly surprised, but looking forward to the future of the series. Hopefully it can maintain the momentum. Greatly looking forward to The Flash as well.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by tgb » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:41 am

I have this recorded but haven't watched yet. Good to hear it didn't suck.
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by rshetts2 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:42 am

I liked it as well. It had a nice noir feeling to it. I didnt have a problem with them introducing the stable of villains that they did, thats kind of the point of the show. The writers have said the series will be more about how Gotham got to be the city wide insane asylum that breeds a hero like Batman. Its about the degradation of Gotham through the eyes of Det. Gordon. Showing the roots of the various villains is vital to maintaining that story direction. As far as sticking to comic book canon, thats just not going to happen. It never does in TV series based on comic books and I doubt it ever will. As long as they dont go too far off the rails they will be fine.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by tru1cy » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:54 am

rshetts2 wrote:I liked it as well. It had a nice noir feeling to it. I didnt have a problem with them introducing the stable of villains that they did, thats kind of the point of the show. The writers have said the series will be more about how Gotham got to be the city wide insane asylum that breeds a hero like Batman. Its about the degradation of Gotham through the eyes of Det. Gordon. Showing the roots of the various villains is vital to maintaining that story direction. As far as sticking to comic book canon, thats just not going to happen. It never does in TV series based on comic books and I doubt it ever will. As long as they dont go too far off the rails they will be fine.
Hated it... Again it's par for the course with me... Gotham without Batman just doesn't work for me
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Baroquen » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:00 pm

/shrug. Good enough that I'm still watching, and recording. (Nothing gets seem at it's regular time in this house.). I agree - a little too much "Parade of (Future) Batman Stars". I liked Falcone more than Jada/Fish. I also like the Bullock casting. And the feel of the city seems right. Bruce and Alfred - I actually found a little annoying. So we'll see.

I'm looking forward to Flash too.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by tgb » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:17 pm

It left me kind of "meh". I didn't hate it, but I don't feel compelled to watch it again.
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:27 pm

I turned it off after about an hour. Too heavy handed. Plus, and I'm not sure if this was the sound mixing or the streaming from Fox's Apple TV app, but the music was way too loud and the voices too low. Unless I hear really great things about it in the future, I don't think I'll be watching again.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:50 pm

I enjoyed it. They did introduce an awful lot in this first episode. I think the real question is how much they actually bring into the story. I could see the Riddler and Poison Ivy bits just being cameos to establish that the characters exist. Likewise with the maybe-Joker comedian (who reminded me an awful lot of the comedian from The Killing Joke.)
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by malchior » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:59 pm

I really enjoyed it - I came in expecting Gotham: CSI and got a pretty straight forward "Batman"-universe story. I agree it was a little too much but I also think they set the right tone - Gotham is corrupt but it has a structure. That might be very interesting if done right. Especially if they end up exploring how Gordon improves things inside the machine versus how say a Batman type might improve things outside the system or even how a corrupt system will work to protect itself in the face of "insurrection". We'll see if it shapes up or not but I think they made a reasonably strong start personally.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by coopasonic » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:05 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I turned it off after about an hour.
:ninja:
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by rshetts2 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:32 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I turned it off after about an hour. Too heavy handed. Plus, and I'm not sure if this was the sound mixing or the streaming from Fox's Apple TV app, but the music was way too loud and the voices too low. Unless I hear really great things about it in the future, I don't think I'll be watching again.
Im guessing your sound issues were due to your app. I had no problems at all with the sound and didnt miss a line of dialog. It seemed balanced just fine to me. I watched it on my DVR.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by YellowKing » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:13 pm

Here's a fun list of easter eggs you may have missed. After reading this list I was actually more impressed with the show given that they are including some characters only the comic book fans would really recognize.

Easter Eggs from Gotham Premiere

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Odin » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:20 pm

YellowKing wrote:cameos by The Riddler
I missed that completely. Where did we see him?
As for Poison Ivy, I'm not sure why you even introduce her at that age. She's far too young to actually do anything but take up space, and she's not an important enough character that I fully understand why they felt the need to tie her in so early.
Based on the amount of Poison Ivy cosplay and other stuff I see online, I believe she is one of the most recognizable characters from Batman, and as a female she's right on par with Catwoman and Harley Quinn. I had no problem with them introducing her or weaving her into the story as long as they do a good job with it.

Did anybody else find it strange that "Barbara" was Gordon's girlfriend/fiancee'? I thought Barbara Gordon (aka Batgirl, aka Oracle) was usually Jim's daughter.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:23 pm

The Riddler was the forensic guy in the police station. He talked with Gordon and the other cop and kept trying to make them answer riddles for the info.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Odin » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:24 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:The Riddler was the forensic guy in the police station. He talked with Gordon and the other cop and kept trying to make them answer riddles for the info.
I have absolutely no recollection of that scene. I think I was playing a game while I watched the show, and something important must have been going on. :D

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:34 pm

Odin wrote: Did anybody else find it strange that "Barbara" was Gordon's girlfriend/fiancee'? I thought Barbara Gordon (aka Batgirl, aka Oracle) was usually Jim's daughter.
Barbara was also the name of his first wife.
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Rip » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:18 pm

Men who are about to die are very honest.

It pays to listen to them.

I never loose sleep over my enemies. It is my friends that keep me awake.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by $iljanus » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:30 pm

Rip wrote:Men who are about to die are very honest.

It pays to listen to them.

I never loose sleep over my enemies. It is my friends that keep me awake.
Don Falcone is one of the best parts of this show.
tl;dr

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Odin » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:46 pm

That was an excellent episode. I think I liked it better than the first one.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by gameoverman » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:12 pm

This show lacks subtlety and it interferes with my ability to enjoy it. First episode I recognized the Catwoman character just from her 'ears'. Well done! But no, they have to follow it up with showing her land in a crouch every time she jumps down somewhere. A fake looking poser crouch. That kind of thing makes me cringe in embarrassment for the people making this show. It's what I expect from Z Nation level tv.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by tgb » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:45 pm

gameoverman wrote:This show lacks subtlety and it interferes with my ability to enjoy it. First episode I recognized the Catwoman character just from her 'ears'. Well done! But no, they have to follow it up with showing her land in a crouch every time she jumps down somewhere. A fake looking poser crouch. That kind of thing makes me cringe in embarrassment for the people making this show. It's what I expect from Z Nation level tv.
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Rip » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:59 pm

Loving some of the penguin.

Best version evar!

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by cheeba » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:56 pm

Yeah the Penguin's pretty awesome here. I never really liked any of the other versions of him, but this one is very well done.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Odin » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:40 am

This is a terrific show, and has quickly floated to the top of my list of shows I look forward to watching each week, along with shows like Walking Dead, Hell on Wheels, and Game of Thrones when they're in season.

Probably the only character that kind of gets on my nerves is Fish, because she chews the scenery like crazy and does wacky stuff like, "Do you like boys? Oh, then seduce me." Other than that, I'm enjoying it immensely.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by YellowKing » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 am

I loved seeing Arkham Asylum in this episode. It looked totally bad-ass, and I liked the political story around it. The "villain of the week" toss-off characters are rather weak though - it's getting to the point where I'm like, "So this is the bad guy that will be conveniently killed off by the end of the episode."

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:03 am

It looks like we got our first hint of another Batman villain on the latest episode,
Spoiler:
Bane.
The one thing that worries me is that they are putting an awful lot of effort and time into the Batman precursors. They are going to have one hell of a time making that pay off. You can't bring most of these characters and elements to fruition without Batman, and 'Batman' is twelve years old right now. Unless they do a Smallville and make this thing go a decade, all those characters can't really go anywhere.
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Rip » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:19 am

Blackhawk wrote:It looks like we got our first hint of another Batman villain on the latest episode,
Spoiler:
Bane.
The one thing that worries me is that they are putting an awful lot of effort and time into the Batman precursors. They are going to have one hell of a time making that pay off. You can't bring most of these characters and elements to fruition without Batman, and 'Batman' is twelve years old right now. Unless they do a Smallville and make this thing go a decade, all those characters can't really go anywhere.
I think they are heading in a certain direction based on two things I noticed this week.

1. Young Bruce becoming concerned about what is being done in his name with his family's money.

2. Alfred turning from being a caretaker trying to protect Bruce and shield him from harsh realities to
a consigliere helping uncover truths and become an active manager of the family money and power.

Basically I don't think Bruce will be as much side story as people expect. I suspect he will become very involved on the edges of what is going on, lending resources and intel to help Gordon along. The relationship will be solid long before he ever dons a cape.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:26 am

I agree - they're doing more with Bruce than they hinted at. There's still no way we're going to see Batman for many, many years. They're still writing themselves a story whose climax is beyond the scope of the show (well, characters at least.)
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Rip » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:59 am

Blackhawk wrote:I agree - they're doing more with Bruce than they hinted at. There's still no way we're going to see Batman for many, many years. They're still writing themselves a story whose climax is beyond the scope of the show (well, characters at least.)

No but I think we are going to see Bruce grow into Batman. He will try to "do the right thing" from behind the scenes by wielding the family money and power and will use that to guide and assist Gordon building the bond that allows straitlaced Gordon to accept that Batman is not only an ally but a necessity.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Odin » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:42 pm

I wonder - how long until we see Bruce do his first "action-thing," whatever that ends up being. Whether it's tripping a bad guy who tries to run past him, or whacking somebody with a cane (suggested by the previous scene of him "cane-fighting" with Alfred) or actually using some sort of gadget, or left to his own devices (somehow) on the dark, deadly streets of Gotham. How long will they be able to resist having him do something physical? Especially with catkid running around picking pockets and roughing up her victims.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Binktopia » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:57 pm

Master Wayne is becoming Detective Wayne quite nicely. A nice start for a character who's real superpowers are his intelligence and money. I mean the Bale version was good, he became a ninja master and was able to fight, but to become the super genius detective he needs to put in those 10,000 hours somewhere. Might as well be in his childhood.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by cheeba » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:39 pm

So that Venom they were talking about, that's the drug that eventually makes Bane, right?

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:45 pm

cheeba wrote:So that Venom they were talking about, that's the drug that eventually makes Bane, right?
Yep.
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Odin » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:47 pm

Ooh, didn't know that. That's cool.

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Rip » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:14 pm

Gotham to get some Firefly alum love.

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Morena-Bacc ... 88340.aspx

Image

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Rip » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:27 pm

Did anyone notice that nice coffee cup?

:ninja:

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:54 pm

Rip wrote:Did anyone notice that nice coffee cup?

:ninja:
:?:
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Rip » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:12 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Rip wrote:Did anyone notice that nice coffee cup?

:ninja:
:?:
Spoiler:
Enigma was shown with a coffee mug with a nice big ? on it.
:shhh:

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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:41 pm

Yes. My reply was meant to be enigmatic.
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Re: [TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:38 am

Tonight's episode was fun. The Wayne encounter felt a bit forced, but I enjoyed the rest - I thought they did a great job on Zsasz. We're also starting to see that the story may have more depth than was apparent at first.
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