[TV] Gotham (Spoilers)

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:50 am

I LOVED Victor Zsasz. I really only know the character from the Batman: Arkham Asylum game (my time reading Batman comics likely predated Zsasz, and even then the used comics I was buying in the late 70s/early 80s were older still), but I thought the portrayal on the show was first-rate.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:44 pm

I can't believe they have actually made a proper, cool villain out of The Penguin.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:13 pm

From the name of the episode, I wasnt sure what direction they were going to take.
Glad they didnt go for the obvious one.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:31 pm

Just watched last episode again. I thought it was really good.

Another thing I loved I forgot to mention.

Zsasz's ringtone.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:05 pm

Rip wrote:Just watched last episode again. I thought it was really good.

Another thing I loved I forgot to mention.

Zsasz's ringtone.

YES!! That was just one of the things that added depth to the character and made him really appeal to me.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:09 pm

I have no clue about Zsasz. Can someone explain?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:51 pm

cheeba wrote:I have no clue about Zsasz. Can someone explain?

Mister Zsasz/Victor Zsasz is a well-known Batman villain, a serial killer who keeps track of his kills by carving tally mark scars into his flesh.

The portrayal on Gotham didn't exactly match the comic Zsasz, but it did make for a great character (although I could see 'hitman Zsasz' being a precursor to 'serial killer Zsasz' later on.)

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:08 pm

I'm not quite sure what to say about this show except that I seem to be enjoying it more than I think I should? It's not subtle or clever at all but the characters and setting just seem to come together to make an enjoyable hour of TV.

Except Barbara... I can't stand her. I'm no Batman expert and have no idea where her character is going.

Jolor · Post by **Jolor** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:36 am

I've enjoyed the whole season but the last 3-4 episodes, particularly. Jada brings so much more than I expected; the Penguin is sooo bloody manipulative ... and Donal Logue is absolutely brilliant.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:00 am

Daveman wrote:I'm not quite sure what to say about this show except that I seem to be enjoying it more than I think I should? It's not subtle or clever at all but the characters and setting just seem to come together to make an enjoyable hour of TV.

Except Barbara... I can't stand her. I'm no Batman expert and have no idea where her character is going.

Agree on all counts. I expected to not like Gotham, and I'm usually good about keeping an open mind. It just sounded like typical TV crap. But it works. The "murder plot" of this last episode was weak as hell, I thought, but watching the Penguin's rise has been awesome. Also like seeing Bruce Wayne's very slow uh, ascent or descent?

Barbara needs to die or something, lol.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:22 am

I'm also liking this show quite a bit. I was prepared for a Bat-version of "Smallville," (which I liked well enough for the most part), but it's actually taking itself more seriously and producing a better show overall, I think. I seem to be in the minority in that I don't mind Barbara, but I don't care for Fish Mooney at all. The combination of the way she's written (Do you like boys? Then come seduce me even though I'm obviously not a boy) and Pinkett-Smith's overacting irritates me.

Jolor · Post by **Jolor** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:00 pm

I gave in and have a new ringtone.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:28 pm

Funkytown is going to get pretty crowded.

Jolor · Post by **Jolor** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:31 pm

So your saying you won't take me there?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:47 pm

Jolor wrote:So your saying you won't take me there?

Well we could,

Talk about it.

Talk about it.
Talk about movin........

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:25 am

Daveman wrote: Except Barbara... I can't stand her. I'm no Batman expert and have no idea where her character is going.

If you want to know (big spoilers from the comics)

Spoiler:

I wasn't all that impressed with the villain in this episode, but his son (The Black Mask) is a great one. They also introduced another villain in this one, although it was more subtle.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:42 pm

Gotham would be much better without Fish Mooney. Jada Pinkett-Smith is just terrible. Its not her character, I can handle characters with no redeeming qualities, its her acting. Theres nothing about her acting that is even remotely believable. Shes like one big cliche waiting to happen. Hopefully, since Mooney is not an established Gotham villain, she is just there to be whacked by Cobblepot. Outside of that, Gotham is turning out to be pretty good. They have managed to allow the campiness of a lot of the Batman mythos to fit in without going too over the top. It does seem like Gordon is turning the police department around and it appears that while on the surface its a good thing, it will end up being the very thing that creates the need for Batman. The less corrupt police will end up clearing out the established criminal element creating a vacuum that opens the city up for the truly insane criminals that end up haunting Gotham.

Apparently Fox has confidence in the series because they upped the original order for this season from 16 episodes to a full 22.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:56 pm

I think Jada is over-acting a bit, sure, but I think the character is still pretty entertaining. I'd actually say the show needs her, else the main villains are two cliche mobsters.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:10 pm

I don't care for her BUT if it means that Penguin can drive her nuts for a few episodes and then off her in some epic way, it's all good.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:20 pm

cheeba wrote:I think Jada is over-acting a bit, sure, but I think the character is still pretty entertaining. I'd actually say the show needs her, else the main villains are two cliche mobsters.

I hate that she is in every episode. Like everything in the entire city revolves around her and yet she never existed until this series.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:28 pm

LordMortis wrote:
cheeba wrote:I think Jada is over-acting a bit, sure, but I think the character is still pretty entertaining. I'd actually say the show needs her, else the main villains are two cliche mobsters.
I hate that she is in every episode. Like everything in the entire city revolves around her and yet she never existed until this series.

True, I do wish they'd mix things up more.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:18 pm

LordMortis wrote:I hate that she is in every episode. Like everything in the entire city revolves around her and yet she never existed until this series.

It just gives more credence to the idea that she will be killed off (presumably by The Penguin) by the end of the season.

This show is too self-aware of Batman mythology to focus this much on a character that has no relation to the comics. She'll die and be forgotten as nothing but a small stepping stone to The Penguin's rise to power.

And though I may be reading too much into it, I like to think that her overacting and eccentricities are purposefully foreshadowing the same characteristics in future Batman villains. Penguin did get his start under her, after all.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:19 pm

Harley Quinn started on the Batman animated series. There is precedence for non-book characters to make the transition into the universe.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:26 pm

YellowKing wrote:
LordMortis wrote:I hate that she is in every episode. Like everything in the entire city revolves around her and yet she never existed until this series.
It just gives more credence to the idea that she will be killed off (presumably by The Penguin) by the end of the season.

This show is too self-aware of Batman mythology to focus this much on a character that has no relation to the comics. She'll die and be forgotten as nothing but a small stepping stone to The Penguin's rise to power.

And though I may be reading too much into it, I like to think that her overacting and eccentricities are purposefully foreshadowing the same characteristics in future Batman villains. Penguin did get his start under her, after all.

The only thing that scares me is Will Smith power influence. I am petrified she will be shoved down our throat the same way that horrendous flick with Will and son in it. I like Will's work but I have no faith in his accepting that his wife is a terrible actress.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:59 pm

Penguins eat fish. There is no way her name was not purposefully chosen to reflect the fact that she will be destroyed by Penguin.

At least that is how I console myself at night when I think about her horrible acting.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:14 pm

I have to say if I were in the market for a butler, Alfred would be on the top of my list. And Cat-child didn't bug me this episode at all with some good acting between Cat-child and proto-Batman. Good episode all around and looking forward to its return in Jan.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:18 pm

I'm enjoying the show more and more is it rolls forward. I am enjoying that it's less and less Fish centric and they've given her purpose.

Did they play episodes out of order? Some chronology seemed off to me but it's hard to remember what at this point.

I don't know how well the show jives with cannon but even if it doesn't, I like the mythology it is building. Even if all of these characters are crazy tight together in city of millions it feels organic, as if the pieces are tightly knit into one story because they had to be.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:31 pm

Oh and Ivy was pretty creepy yet managed to get my pity. If even Cat-child was afraid of her I'm looking forward to seeing Ivy's character development. With the way Gotham treats the children of the underclass, they deserve what's coming to them though.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:50 pm

$iljanus wrote:Oh and Ivy was pretty creepy yet managed to get my pity. If even Cat-child was afraid of her I'm looking forward to seeing Ivy's character development. With the way Gotham treats the children of the underclass, they deserve what's coming to them though.

I was waiting for Cat-child to tell Bat-child, as they were walking away from Ivy, "Stay away from her. She's poison."
Instead she said something like "stay away from her, she's crazy."

Missed opportunity, if you ask me.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:02 pm

Egads, I can't believe they had such a perfect chance to kill off Fish and use it to propel the show to another level and they backed off, missed opportunity and we are left agonizing over the show getting better only to know at some point they will bring Fish back and screw it all up again.

I was also left with the impression that Cobblepot has a little bit of a crush on the dashing young detective. Now, Penguin being gay would totally make sense.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:07 pm

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:43 pm

Latest episode decent but not great.

For the love of god quit shoving Fish Mooney down my throat. Kill the bitch already.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:16 pm

They won't kill Fish until Penguin does it. Poetic comic book justice, plus Gotham foreshadowing would suggest that he will do it with an umbrella (he started off as her 'umbrella boy.') It would fit in a lot of ways.

They couldn't have Penguin do it until he had a little bit of a position. That has now happened. I expect her to be dead by (or at) the end of the season.

In any case, the next episode supposedly sets up

Spoiler:

and the one after that is entitled 'Red Hood.' I wonder if they're connected?

You know, there is a part of me that also hopes they jump ahead a couple of years between the seasons. They might have to replace the child actors at some point, which makes it a little unlikely (although other shows have gotten away with this), but it would let them work on the mythos more believably. They could have a budding, fumbling pre-Batman in, oh, two or three seasons.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:09 am

Fantastic origin for The Scarecrow. I really liked that misdirect with the father not being Jonathan Crane.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:51 am

I agree. It was actually very, very close to the New 52 origin.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:01 pm

That was an eye popping episode.

MonkeyFinger · Post by **MonkeyFinger** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:02 am

I'll take option #3, please!

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:24 am

Always good to see Jeffery Combs show up. You know you're in for some freaky stuff.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:00 pm

I could have lived without option #3. That was hard to watch.

Liking the new Butch/Oswald relationship.

Loving how they are setting up the caped crusader. You can really taste the events/circumstances that are molding who we all know he will become.

DD* · Post by DD* » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:45 pm

Any way to get this and Flash if I didn't DVR them?