It used to be a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:51 pm

I had resisted watching the Suicide Squad DC animated film, Batman: Assault on Arkham for a while because I mistakenly thought it was just a tie in to the video game series, and would thus suck as most of those tie in deals do.

I was wrong. I was really, really wrong.

It's incredibly brutal, extremely mature and a confident piece of storytelling. I cannot recommend it enough. But don't take just my word for it.

If you're even remotely a DC fan, this one is a keeper.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:35 pm

I couldn't find a thread dedicated just to The Flash, but I figured this would do.

There's two things I can't figure out this season: 1) Shouldn't there still be a whole bunch of meta-humans in the STAR Labs secret cells? Or did everybody forget to feed them?

2) Is there some reason they're ignoring Gideon, the super-powerful computer from the future that they know all about and could be using to solve crimes and stuff?

Last season built to a heady climax that I really liked. So far, 1.5 episodes in (I'm watching episode 2 at the moment), it's a little meh. Though I did kind of like the way they told the aftermath story from the singularity in flashbacks.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:44 pm

I was under the impression that the imprisoned metas were either released prior to the facility essentially hosting a giant black hole, or they were killed in the aftermath. And that Gideon was destroyed by said giant black hole.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:54 pm

hepcat wrote:I was under the impression that the imprisoned metas were either released prior to the facility essentially hosting a giant black hole, or they were killed in the aftermath. And that Gideon was destroyed by said giant black hole.

Did they actually mention either/both of those things on the show, or were we just left to assume that?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:57 pm

I seem to remember a line about freeing the prisoners before they were killed. But I'd have to watch it again.

edit: Just found this on the show wiki and it's coming back to me now.

The team debated what to do with the imprisoned metas, as Barry didn't want to let them die when the Pipeline was reactivated. They decided to move the metas to Lian Yu and bring them to Ferris Air in a truck modified to block out their powers. Barry negotiated with Leonard Snart and his sister Lisa Snart to provide protection, and the two agreed. The team sedated the metas by spraying knockout gas into their cells, and placed them in a Ramon Shipping truck.[15]

The metas awoke and began squabbling, with Mark Mardon in particular picking a fight with Kyle Nimbus. However the Snarts sabotaged the truck, and the metas escaped, with Mardon striking down the plane meant to take the metas to Lian Yu with a lightning bolt. In the ensuing battle, the metas battled with The Flash and his team; Simmons was seemingly killed when being shot by Leonard's Cold Gun, Nimbus and Shawna fled the scene, while Leonard recruited Mardon and Bivolo to the Rogues.[15]

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:59 pm

Okay, I've answered the one about the prisoners. In the penultimate season 1 episode, they tried to relocate them to an ARGUS facility with Snart (Capt. Cold)'s help, but he betrayed them and released all the meta-humans. So that makes sense now.

I still think they writers just forgot about Gideon.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:01 pm

I doubt it. I'm guessing Gideon will come into play later.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:03 pm

hepcat wrote:I doubt it. I'm guessing Gideon will come into play later.

If you had a mega-powerful computer from the future, would you save it for later??

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:05 pm

Yes (from a writer's standpoint). It's likely (and completely understandable) if the gang thinks Gideon has been destroyed. Later, he could pop up.

Also, it being destroyed in the black hole that was formed over Star labs would also be perfectly acceptable. Because Gideon is an immobile supercomputer, I doubt he put on track shoes and beat feet when it all went south.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:12 pm

Was STAR Labs badly damaged by the singularity? I haven't really seen much that gave that impression - it all looks pretty much the same to me.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:15 pm

Agreed, now that they fired Matt Williams.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Odin wrote:Was STAR Labs badly damaged by the singularity? I haven't really seen much that gave that impression - it all looks pretty much the same to me.

There were more than a few scenes of ruined areas of the facility in the season opener. The main set they use for the Scooby Gang get togethers was relatively unscathed though.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:26 pm

(Note: I haven't seen yesterday's episode.)

We've had no more than a few hours in Star Labs. Barry had the place to himself, and may well have been using Gideon extensively.

Spoiler:

It is also possible that the way Thawne/Wells got poofed changed history in such a way that his database of events is now unreliable.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:38 pm

Blackhawk wrote:It is also possible that the way Thawne/Wells got poofed changed history in such a way that his database of events is now unreliable.

I hadn't thought of that.

I don't really care if it's destroyed or if they are using it and just not showing it, but not even mentioning it leaves a big glaring plot hole that's bugging me. Unless you show me that it's destroyed or you tell me it's destroyed or you mention that there's a reason you're not using it, then every time a character says, "I know how we can solve this!" my first thought is going to be "Ask Gideon!"

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:48 pm

They rarely showed Wells using it that way though. So I'm not sure it's as omniscient as you think.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:51 pm

Ok, from the mouth of the Executive Producer. Probable spoilers if you dig too deeply:

Can Team Flash still turn to Wells’ (Tom Cavanagh) A.I. Gideon for answers?
Gideon is no longer there.

So maybe they'll cover the 'why' later. We really haven't had much of a chance to dig into the past few months events yet.

As an aside, I can't help but wonder if Gideon was originally built for Watchtower.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:53 pm

I just assumed (in spite of my later musings) that Gideon was destroyed. I honestly didn't give it any thought until it was mentioned here. It just seemed logical considering the amount of damage they showed in the season finale.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:06 pm

Odin wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:It is also possible that the way Thawne/Wells got poofed changed history in such a way that his database of events is now unreliable.
I hadn't thought of that.

I don't really care if it's destroyed or if they are using it and just not showing it, but not even mentioning it leaves a big glaring plot hole that's bugging me. Unless you show me that it's destroyed or you tell me it's destroyed or you mention that there's a reason you're not using it, then every time a character says, "I know how we can solve this!" my first thought is going to be "Ask Gideon!"

I agree. If they want to say Gideon was trashed beyond repair fine. But they do have a futuristic AI computer that they just haven't addressed.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:51 am

Odin wrote:I couldn't find a thread dedicated just to The Flash, but I figured this would do.

I started watching this series over the weekend. After 2 episodes of this Smallville remake I realized I could watch the first and last minute of each episode to get the story arc. Everything in the middle was Flash battling someone else in town exposed to a piece of the Kryptonite meteor.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:54 pm

Moliere wrote:
Odin wrote:I couldn't find a thread dedicated just to The Flash, but I figured this would do.
I started watching this series over the weekend. After 2 episodes of this Smallville remake I realized I could watch the first and last minute of each episode to get the story arc. Everything in the middle was Flash battling someone else in town exposed to a piece of the Kryptonite meteor.

Ah, good. That will save you some time, then.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:24 am

Just caught up on this weeks episodes. I can't watch them as they're aired, as I have to wait for the kids to be here.

I loved it all, save for one thing:

Did Snart really freeze a frikkin' laser beam?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:31 am

Next week he freezes sunshine.

Yeah, that was incredi-dumb.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:33 am

I haven't seen the show, so I have no context there, but freezing a laser beam is real.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:34 am

Saw that, my brain immediately went "comic book, shut up" and I continued to enjoy.

As for this weeks, the surprise villain that appeared at the end made me laugh out loud (in a good way.) I thought the whole shark teeth thing was a red herring through the episode.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:35 am

Isgrimnur wrote:I haven't seen the show, so I have no context there, but freezing a laser beam is real.

But freezing the space they previously occupied as well so that the laser beam is effectively blocked?

Although I guess the comics have tried to explain his cold gun as being capable of stopping atoms completely.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:50 pm

hepcat wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:I haven't seen the show, so I have no context there, but freezing a laser beam is real.
But freezing the space they previously occupied as well so that the laser beam is effectively blocked?

Although I guess the comics have tried to explain his cold gun as being capable of stopping atoms completely.

Iiiiinteresting. Now it actually does make sense, in a comic-booky sort of way. Especially since he quoted that same panel in the episode ("It isn't a freeze gun, it's a cold gun.")

Of course, the result still breaks all sorts of laws, and ignores how laser sensors actually work (stopping the photons would be the same as stepping into the beam.) There is also the issue that shooting it outside would then, as someone said, freeze the sunshine. Still, it enough of an explanation to go from 'what the hell?' to 'comic book, let it go.'

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:25 am

So, I'm looking for a new show to watch with my wife and 12 year old son. How dark are Arrow or Flash? My son is getting really bummed out at the dark turns Agents of Shield has been taking. Are these super gritty?

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:42 am

gbasden wrote:So, I'm looking for a new show to watch with my wife and 12 year old son. How dark are Arrow or Flash? My son is getting really bummed out at the dark turns Agents of Shield has been taking. Are these super gritty?

The Flash isn't particularly dark at all, aside from the fact that the main character watched his mother be murdered when he was a child by forces unknown and his dad went to prison for it. Which sounds pretty dark, but the show doesn't typically play it that way.

Arrow's quite a bit darker. He kills people who have failed Starling City. If your son is bothered by AoS, I don't think Arrow would be a good fit.

Disclaimer: AoS doesn't feel dark to me at all, so my take on The Flash may not fit with your son's.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:48 am

Of the two, I would say The Flash is the better show for younger children. It does have some dark themes and there is some violence ( after all its a superhero comic book show ) but its generally not gratuitous or gory. The Arrow has decapitations, impalements, exploding people, slavery and torture, soft core porn and full on revenge porn. The heroes? Well, Barry Allen ( The Flash ) is just a really nice guys and a nerd. Oliver Queen ( The Arrow ) is a murdering, pretentious, self involved, entitled dick, although he has changed his ways. Yeah, stick to The Flash. They have talking sharkmen and gorillas.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:13 am

This is probably not what a 12-year-old is looking for, but I have to say that the old Adam West Batman show holds up really well. What was simply funny and exciting when I was a kid now comes across as campy cheese of the finest grade. And the Blu-ray release looks fantastic.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:43 am

gbasden wrote:So, I'm looking for a new show to watch with my wife and 12 year old son. How dark are Arrow or Flash? My son is getting really bummed out at the dark turns Agents of Shield has been taking. Are these super gritty?

So I had the exact issue. My wife and I started watching Arrow. After the first few episodes, I decided I wasn't going to let my then 10 year old (he's now 11) son watch because there was just too much straight up gun violence and murder. At some point, he saw us watching it in our bedroom and asked very nicely if he could watch a little. The episode wasn't so bad, so we let him. He really liked it and asked if could watch another. At that point, he was pretty much in and he went back and watched all the back episodes. At some point my now 15 year old (too cool for school teen) saw us all watching it and started watching as well.

Then Flash came in and we are all hooked as a family. So now watching Arrow and Flash is the only tv show we all watch as a family. Since we have such busy schedules and different interests, etc. These shows are the only time we stop and plan our night around, which is nice. It's not exactly the Waltons, but I realized my kids see so much of that stuff on tv now, there really isn't any way to shelter them. The fact that it's comic book stuff makes it easier to suspend belief. But understand, the violence is graphic. If you have Netflix, watch a few episodes of the first season of Arrow.

However, if you are concerned that Shield is too dark, Arrow starts out much darker. It does get a little lighter in subsequent seasons. But there is plenty of graphic violence and point blank gun murder. Flash is not as bad, but it has its moments too. There is so much crossover, that it may be tough to watch Flash without Arrow, but you can easily do it.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:45 am

gbasden wrote:So, I'm looking for a new show to watch with my wife and 12 year old son. How dark are Arrow or Flash? My son is getting really bummed out at the dark turns Agents of Shield has been taking. Are these super gritty?

If you're avoiding dark and wanting super heroes, Flash, as others have said, is where you want to be. Legends of Tomorrow (premiers in January) is the next Arrowverse spin-off, and may fit as well.

Supergirl just launched. It may or may not end up being a good show, but it certainly isn't dark.

If I may also suggest something a little different, check out the DC Animated Universe (the classic ones from the 90s and early 2000s.) Batman: The Animated Series is fantastic, for adults as well as kids. The later spin offs (Superman and Justice League) were good as well.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:57 am

Good? Nay, great.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:05 am

Blackhawk wrote: If I may also suggest something a little different, check out the DC Animated Universe (the classic ones from the 90s and early 2000s.) Batman: The Animated Series is fantastic, for adults as well as kids. The later spin offs (Superman and Justice League) were good as well.

My four-year old loves Batman: The Brave and the Bold. It's goofy fun, and definitely appropriate for kids (though some scenes push it a bit for my little guy).

He also adores any Lego Batman stuff. They have a bunch of straight-to-DVD movies that aren't half-bad.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:09 am

I was all set to hate Brave and the Bold when I heard about it, but it turned out to be a fantastically entertaining show that paid off in droves for older fans of comics.

p.s. Be warned: some of those DC animated movies are definitely not for younger audiences.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:47 pm

hepcat wrote: p.s. Be warned: some of those DC animated movies are definitely not for younger audiences.

Good warning. The stuff from the 'animated universe' (the same art style as Batman: The Animated Series) is usually fine (Mask of the Phantasm is great.) Anything not of that series requires research before being shown to kids. Assault on Arkham, Dark Knight Returns, that sort of thing - those are made for older audiences.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:06 pm

Thanks for all the recommendations! I'll propose The Flash and see if it is appealing to the rest of the family.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:59 pm

Wait a second, RE: Flash.

They discovered 52 breaches coming from other dimensions. Where does #52 lead?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:30 am

A New 52.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:42 am

Speaking of Flash again, anyone notice the easter egg in the police station?

Spoiler: