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It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by rittchard »

I'm having a weird time with Crisis thus far. I love a lot of the cameos and individual scenes, but for some reason all 3 of the episodes I fell asleep midway through and had to rewatch, and this happened multiple times each episode. It was really odd, maybe there was just so much happening, the density of the content was too much for me lol. In that sense I don't think I'm enjoying it as much as I did last year's crossover, which I remember just loving. But in terms of just having massive amounts of content per minute, this year is beyond anything we've ever seen and way beyond anything that's been done on television. I wish there was some kind of awards for these things, because the level of coordination between shows is really, really impressive.

I haven't read the comic version (though I do have the big book sitting waiting for me), so I'm not sure which elements they are taking. It seems like the path they are taking is rather convoluted, but maybe that's all just in the setup phase that the first three episodes contained. Hopefully the final 2 next year will be more focused on solving the Crisis. It's going to be very interesting to see how they leave the aftermath, i.e. how many things will get reset or not. I thought in the comics only one universe survived so I'd guess the TV series will do something similar, finally unifying all their series.
Spoiler:
It looks like they've finally established the Anti-Monitor as the Big Bad, and the 7 Paragons plus Resurrected Arrow as the ones who have to stop him. Some of the choices were a little odd, but all in all it's been a fun ride. I'm not a fan of this Lex Luther at all, so that's been kind of a bummer.
From what I've pieced together, it looks like next season's series will be Flash, Supergirl, Batwoman, Superman and Lois, Canaries/Green Arrow, and Black Lightning. I can't imagine Legends continuing but then again it's lasted longer than I ever imagined it would to begin with lol. If Crisis destroys all the alternate earths, though, I don't understand what Legends is going to be about. I guess different timelines?

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

If the worlds are merged, the only show that seems like it would really be affected is Black Lightning. Legends is already mostly about timelines and fixing them. Supergirl takes place in a world that isn't too far gone from the core Arrow universe and wouldn't really suffer if they merged (which I think is where they'll end up if they go that route rather than straight-up destroying them.) Black Lightning, though, has its own, completely different world that relies pretty heavily on its particular level of metas and their origin.

*Note that I'm still a couple of weeks behind.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

And...
Spoiler:
They went and merged the worlds of all of the CW DC shows. Black Lightning just went from a gritty show about scientific manipulation of children to having superheroes and aliens.
Some highlights of the stuff they showed:
Spoiler:
Holy crap, Oa. There are officially Green Lanterns in the Arrowverse.
I noticed S.T.R.I.P.E. in there, too.
The crossover with the DC movie universe was unexpected.
They just announced today that they're making a Superman & Lois series soon.

And they went and introduced
Spoiler:
The Hall of Justice and Gleek (!)
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by sgoldj »

Nice ending. A little confusing, but when the spoiler discussion comes out, we can talk about the ??? moments.
Spoiler:
the Flash from the DCEU hanging out in the speed force blindsided me. I guess it was Crisis on a Finite Number of Infinite Earths.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

Apparently that moment was a last-minute request by DC themselves.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by rittchard »

Crisis Aftermath: thus far I've only seen Supergirl and Arrow. It's hard to tell how well thought out all of this was so I will reserve judgment for the time being.

It seems like even though the show universes have merged, the exact repercussions aren't entirely clear. It almost feels like each show is going to kind of make up its own rules as they go along but obviously that's a little dangerous. All the characters can interact and everyone seems to know about all of them, and there is some shared memory/history of the timelines that has also merged. Anyone involved in the Crisis can apparently get their memories restored by some super device. There are also apparently misc loopholes that can be used to bring back dead characters if they feel like. It's kind of fun but also kind of a mess.

I imagine Flash and Supergirl are the least affected, as they have already been stretching the boundaries of where they can go with powered folk. Arrow may have been smart to move its spinoff into the future to avoid the direct relationships with Flash/SG, but for any of the lesser powered heroes like Batwoman, it gets harder to swallow when they fight unpowered villains when friends like Flash/SG could solve their issues in an instant. That was one of the biggest beefs I had with that one Arrow badguy, who really had no special abilities but had endless henchmen and resources but kept tormenting Arrow and family. While obviously it would be bad to rely on a crutch like that, it didn't make sense that when it got really extreme he didn't ask his buddy Flash for some quick help. Now with SG (and maybe Superman) also in the mix, it will be even more difficult.

I noticed they are also adding a Stargirl show. Not sure how that's going to fit into the scheme of things. Why can't they just make a Green Lantern show???

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by sgoldj »

My take is different after seeing just Batwoman and Supergirl

Of the two Supergirl seems to have had the biggest impact on the show at large. Lots of implications and issues about who knows or remembers what, plus the audience having knowledge that the characters do not. Batwoman, on the other hand, is still developing what the impact will be, judging by the reveal at the end of the show.

In my mind, Black Lighting stands to lose the most by being on Earth-Prime. How will the conceit of Freeland being occupied and cut off from the rest of the United States be handled when the premier hero there is a super friend of two Kryptonians and a guy who can almost literally run faster than time. It seems at least one of them would have checked out this whole Markonian war threat thing. (To be fair to the material, I had similar questions during the No Man’s Land arc in the Batman comics) With that new melding, I am not even sure how the world gets to they type of issues that Black Lightning has being portraying.

Edited to add: Stargirl takes place (like Titans, Doom Patrol, DCEU, and Earth-96) in other, mostly unconnected, universes. That’s where those shows fit in.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

The impression I've had is that the world is now a mix of the worlds that were merged. A character that died in one world may be alive in another, or presumably, vice-versa (they did this with timelines in Flashpoint.) A particular character may be from one world, the other, or a mix. All of them, save for the Paragons, believe that the world was this way all along, although J'onn seems to be able to restore their original memories if he wants to, and Cisco can as well - at least at some point in time, as the events leading up to Arrow could have happened a year from now for all we know.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

"Why doesn't ______ just save the day?" has been an issue in comic books since the beginning. It's usually just handled with a 'Shhhhh...'
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by sgoldj »

Blackhawk wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:03 pm
"Why doesn't ______ just save the day?" has been an issue in comic books since the beginning. It's usually just handled with a 'Shhhhh...'
True. It just gets more unbelievable to me when it is akin to No Man's Land situations.

In other musings, my opinion is that certain entities know a multiverse exists, the Spectre, Lucifer, God, Goddess, and the Endless at least.
Considering the Lucifer TV series, that would mean his mom's newly minted universe was also caught up in the Anti-matter wave. I can't imagine the Goddess of All Creation would have been real happy. Ultimately, the Ant-Monitor might never had stood a chance.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Isgrimnur »

sgoldj wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:00 pm
Ant-Monitor might never had stood a chance.
Worst. Superpower. Ever.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by sgoldj »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:07 pm
sgoldj wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:00 pm
Ant-Monitor might never had stood a chance.
Worst. Superpower. Ever.
Lol. Teaches me to post before proofing. I constant habit I have.

Well played.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Punisher »

sgoldj wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:56 pm
My take is different after seeing just Batwoman and Supergirl

Of the two Supergirl seems to have had the biggest impact on the show at large. Lots of implications and issues about who knows or remembers what, plus the audience having knowledge that the characters do not. Batwoman, on the other hand, is still developing what the impact will be, judging by the reveal at the end of the show.

In my mind, Black Lighting stands to lose the most by being on Earth-Prime. How will the conceit of Freeland being occupied and cut off from the rest of the United States be handled when the premier hero there is a super friend of two Kryptonians and a guy who can almost literally run faster than time. It seems at least one of them would have checked out this whole Markonian war threat thing. (To be fair to the material, I had similar questions during the No Man’s Land arc in the Batman comics) With that new melding, I am not even sure how the world gets to they type of issues that Black Lightning has being portraying.

Edited to add: Stargirl takes place (like Titans, Doom Patrol, DCEU, and Earth-96) in other, mostly unconnected, universes. That’s where those shows fit in.
I am way behind on Black Lightning, but since the shared world has a different history than the one so far in the shows, they could just retcon all of the really bad stuff into never actually happening.
I think Arrow or the Flash touched on the "why don't I call so and so" thing a few times. It came down to either the other person wasn't available or they didn't want to bother the other person.
As fast as Barry is, he really can't be everywhere at once.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by rittchard »

Punisher wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:33 pm
I think Arrow or the Flash touched on the "why don't I call so and so" thing a few times. It came down to either the other person wasn't available or they didn't want to bother the other person.
As fast as Barry is, he really can't be everywhere at once.
I'm totally OK with the excuses in general, but it just really annoyed me in the season of Arrow where they had a really long protracted war with Diaz, who at the time had NO powers. Week after week he was threatening Felicity and young William, and injuring/killing his friends (I don't recall the details but they made it really dramatic), and all Diaz had was a lot of non-powered lackies. It felt like it went on for weeks, even months, in which case there is no excuse in my mind that he wouldn't have asked a good friend speedster for a hand. Particularly when it takes no time for Flash to get there and they could have wiped the Diaz lackies in a matter of minutes. And let's not forget at the time I think they also had a teleporting Cisco as well. Of course I realize that sucks all the drama out of it but at some point you want things to make some sort of sense. The funny thing is in some sense they chose the worst heroes for this kind of thing since they have speedsters, Superfolk AND teleporters lol.

Anyway, Arrow comes to an end tonight with the series finale. Kind of bummed because in spite of my complaints, it was always my favorite of all the CW shows.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by rittchard »

Arrow Series Finale - a lot of fan service, a ton of guest stars, flashbacks to the original flashback style, and some fun hints for the future, made for an enjoyable and nostalgic experience. As a stand-alone episode, not so much in the way of a story, but in this case, I suspect no one will complain. Pretty much every major character (and some minor ones) has a guest appearance, and that's all I'll say to not spoil it.
Spoiler:
Final scene was very sweet if not predictable based on what they showed us last year. But we waited this long and the payoff was still nice to see Felicity reunited with Oliver in the "afterlife" or whatever it was they were in. Much more exciting was the Green Lantern teaser which they've been hinting at for years. The question is what are they going to do with it?

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

So... Arrow finale.

They recently just announced that they were launching a Superman & Lois TV series. Then, in the arrow finale...
Spoiler:
John Diggle announces that he's moving to Metropolis.
Then, a few minutes later...
Spoiler:
John Diggle (whose adopted name is Stewart) finds what can only be a Green Lantern ring.

:shock:
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

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Stargirl
Spoiler:

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by hepcat »

Good lord, is this what Luke Wilson is reduced to these days?
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Ruby Rose just quit Batwoman. They will recast for Season 2.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by sgoldj »

Snyder cut for Justice League to be put together for HBO Max.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by YellowKing »

I'll definitely check out the Snyder cut, but it's kind of funny watching people go nuts demanding the Snyder cut to fix everything wrong with JUSTICE LEAGUE when not too long ago they were blaming him for everything wrong with DC movies.

I'm skeptical a Snyder cut is going to make a huge difference, as I've not particularly cared for his take on the DC films (Note - I do not have a problem with him as a director in general). But I guess it can't make it any worse.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

No kidding. The list of 'good' DCU films and the list of the 'not so good' ones is pretty much identical to the lists of DCU films he was or was not involved in. The Whedon cut was the salvaged version of Snyder's vision. It was the sinking ship with duck tape over the holes. Why people think ripping the tape off is going to right the ship is beyond me.

If its better, hey great! But one way or the other, at least it will make the 'release the Snyder cut!' people shut up once and for all.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

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Blackhawk wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:15 pm
No kidding. The list of 'good' DCU films and the list of the 'not so good' ones is pretty much identical to the lists of DCU films he was or was not involved in. The Whedon cut was the salvaged version of Snyder's vision. It was the sinking ship with duck tape over the holes. Why people think ripping the tape off is going to right the ship is beyond me.

If its better, hey great! But one way or the other, at least it will make the 'release the Snyder cut!' people shut up once and for all.
I have a feeling the Snyder cut is going to be a jumbled mess. Not that the Whedon version was much better, but it was at least somewhat watchable.
FTE

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

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I will watch out of morbid curiosity, but as Yellowking said, I am not a fan of Snyder’s DCU. I did think that Watchmen was a story for his style and enjoyed it.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by malchior »

Same feel here about this cut. I don't know why people have clamored for it but will eventually watch it. I thought 300 was good and Watchmen was ok. After that it's all been mostly barely watchable stuff out of him.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by msteelers »

There are people that genuinely believe Snyder's DC films are really, really good.

I'm not one of them, but I've argued with them enough times in the past to know that they exist.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by hepcat »

I liked his take on Dawn of the Dead, even if it dropped most of the consumerism theme that made Romero’s original version more than just a return to the same well. And 300 was fun. The Watchmen was a good try. I even thought his change to the ending wasn’t that far off from the original.

But yeah, his seeming inability to understand what made fans love many of the DC characters has not worked out for him. It took other directors to right the ship, although too little too late to save their attempt at a shared universe a la Marvel.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

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Stargirl is...surprisingly good. I was prepared to dislike it because of its connection to CW, but it seems to be another decent entry into the DC Universe lineup.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

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Image
Spoiler:

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by hepcat »

the guy' was a jerk, but i'm still not a fan of "one strike and you're out" approach to things. sometimes it's a good idea to create a teachable moment out of such things.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Isgrimnur »

Losing your job is a teachable moment. He's 35.

If Mel Gibson can come back, so can Sawyer.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by stessier »

hepcat wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:50 am
the guy' was a jerk, but i'm still not a fan of "one strike and you're out" approach to things. sometimes it's a good idea to create a teachable moment out of such things.
Just reading the articles, it seems like it would be hard to call the pattern of old tweets only one strike. Perhaps one strike inasmuch as they are now known at this point in time.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by hepcat »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:56 am
Losing your job is a teachable moment.
Not in this economy. And in Hollywood, this may mean the death of his career. He sure as hell hasn't built up the cred that someone like Gibson has.

Look, I understand the need to punish someone for being a schmuck. But I think potentially destroying someone's livelihood is still an overreaction. Most of us didn't agree with James Gunn getting fired from GoG 3 after his disturbing failed attempts at being shocking were discovered, so why is this different?

Help someone learn from their mistakes. Otherwise we're losing the chance to help those who should know better.
Last edited by hepcat on Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Isgrimnur »

hepcat wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:09 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:56 am
Losing your job is a teachable moment.
Not in this economy.
Hollywood is never an accurate sample of the economy.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by hepcat »

Sorry, I expounded on my reply. In short, he ain't no Mel Gibson.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by Blackhawk »

I've read the tweets. They're almost comparable to the James Gunn tweets. They were pretty extreme, and it wasn't just one tweet. It was someone trying to show off by being as intentionally offensive as they could manage. They'd really been setting up the Ralph Dibny/Sue Dearbon storyline for next season, too. I'm guessing they'll just say that she's gone missing again and that he's chasing after her, then quietly never mention him again, ala Cousin Oliver.

And at the same time, Ruby Rose left Batwoman after one season. Apparently she didn't like the workload. Their solution has been to reboot the character rather than recasting Kate Kane. Next season they'll write Kane/Rose out and a new character in. The real problem there was that half of the other characters were her family, and most of the others were ex-lovers.

All of that on top of aborted seasons due to the virus.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by LordMortis »

I was going to say, while no excuse, if these were 6 years ago, he was just a kid, and if you don't give people a chance to change, where are you? But six years ago, he was 29. That's a bit harder to forgive and allow for personal change/growth. IMO, you still have to try, but it's harder.

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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by hepcat »

You're never too old to learn from your mistakes.
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by LordMortis »

hepcat wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:36 pm
You're never too old to learn from your mistakes.
Agreed. But it's much harder to turn the other cheek when slapped by a 40 year old than it is when slapped by ten year old. Or maybe that says more about me than it does the slappers.

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hepcat
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
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Re: It is a good time to be a DC fan (Flash, Arrow, films, etc)

Post by hepcat »

No one was slapped. This was just a stupid series of tweets. Let's not try to equate them to a physical attack.

Cancel culture is toxic. I agree with Obama on this.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

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