[AMC] Better Call Saul

[McNutt]

Jimmy is likable and he enjoys seeing the people around him have a good time. Chuck was very jealous of the ease in which Jimmy can win over people. We, as viewers have to keep that in check because Slippin' Jimmy will fool us too into thinking what he's doing isn't that bad. But if you had read about anyone else doing the things he did you'd be ready to throw the book at them. He's so good at this that people wanted to justify him falsifying the documents that permanently ruined Chuck.

Remember, this is the same guy that in a few years will offer Walter his services to kill Hank.

[Drazzil]

The same dad who blew money out the door to any sob story and ran a failing business?

Yes. I don't think that point does what you want it to do though.

Remember the retirement home where he basically bypassed making MORE money to make the two old ladies friends again?

(Its been at least two years, hazy on the details, was I imagining any part of this?)

Yes. Do you remember WHY she had been ostracized by her friends? Hint: it was Jimmy's fault.

The way I remember the cell phone thing is that he was working commission only on a dead store and merely found a market in selling mass amounts of phones to people who had a need for privacy, legit or otherwise. Thats capitalism. I want to say that if I had to unload a thousand phones, I'd be that sharp.

That's not capitalism. Also, remind me to never do business with you in any capacity.

So Bernie Madoff (nice edit) is an equal to a guy who may or may not be legit trying to buy a hundred phones? What if he was a jounalist or a salesman himself?

Yeah. Okay.

Please dont do business with me in any capacity.

[hepcat]

For someone who complains a lot about big corporations taking advantage of people, you sure seem to endorse taking advantage of people.

[Drazzil]

For someone who complains a lot about big corporations taking advantage of people, you sure seem to endorse taking advantage of people.

You know Hepcat... You're absolutely right. I must not remember all the details of the show. And I'm being an incongrious bastard today. I apologize.

[hepcat]

And I apologize as well if i came across as antagonistic.

[McNutt]

Drazzil, you're missing the point that Jimmy's personality alters your perception of what happened and creates this image of him doing things that weren't so bad. For example, he sold a ton of phones by proclaiming them to have new technology that would prevent the government or anyone else from being able to track you or collect your data. In reality these were just cheap phones that he needed to unload, so he scammed everyone with claims about their nonexistent features.

[Drazzil]

Oh yeah! So the guy wasent like a drug dealer or a journo, he was just some random guy. Good to know.

[Drazzil]

Drazzil, you're missing the point that Jimmy's personality alters your perception of what happened and creates this image of him doing things that weren't so bad. For example, he sold a ton of phones by proclaiming them to have new technology that would prevent the government or anyone else from being able to track you or collect your data. In reality these were just cheap phones that he needed to unload, so he scammed everyone with claims about their nonexistent features.

I think maybe a rewatch may be in order.

[Kraken]

I probably posted this before, but don't have time to go back and check myself (it was a rough day). There was a scene where the law firm was going to take on an intern, I think it was, and there was a girl who was rejected out-of-hand because she had some minor conviction in her past. Jimmy made a heartfelt plea to the board to give her a chance and change her life. Of course, they gave it to the privileged kid with squeaky-clean credentials. Jimmy ran after her and explained that she wasn't going to get it, because the people who get the breaks are the same ones who always get the breaks, and once you're outside that group you're always outside of it -- you can never shake a bad reputation. It summed up his character nicely.

[McNutt]

I think I need to re-watch it too. Seeing it again knowing what we know now might feel like a different ride.

[Smoove_B]

[McNutt]

I just rewatched the first episode. Jimmy was complaining about the lack of money in public defense. Chuck told Jimmy that the money wasn't important. Doing good was what mattered. Stay the course and the clients will come.

It showed that Chuck wanted Jimmy to see the value of doing good things. He was trying to keep Jimmy on the right path and away from his true nature. It really seemed like Chuck was proud of Jimmy for paying his dues and using the law to help people.

[Jaymann]

Great first episode for season 5. Literally very dark. The transition to Saul Goodman is now complete and it did not seem forced at all. Nice to see Robert Forster one last time. I hope to see more of Cinnabon Saul.

Strangely, AMC made me turn off ad blocker, but there were no commercials.

[McNutt]

I got sad when I saw Robert Forster. I really didn't know him before Jackie Brown, but he was soooo good in that movie. His Breaking Bad character was awesome too. Not just the acting, but the character was well written.

This episode shows that Lalo is going to be real thorn in Gus' side. I am looking forward to seeing that relationship deteriorate.

Kim is seeing the horrible influence of Jimmy in her life. That relationship is not going to last.

We need more Howard, but I don't see how Howard will fit into the story at this point. There is no need to have HHM in the picture now, so we might have seen the last of him.

[Kraken]

When they were touring Fring's construction project I remarked "Somewhere out there, right about now, Walter White is finding out that he has cancer."

[pr0ner]

When they were touring Fring's construction project I remarked "Somewhere out there, right about now, Walter White is finding out that he has cancer."

I'm not sure if you saw it, but the year on the computer monitor when Jimmy was at the bar office was 2004.

Also, has it been mentioned before that (minor spoiler below)

Spoiler:

Gus Fring is gay?

[McNutt]

Spoiler:

My impression was that he was the lover of the friend Don Hector killed at the pool in Mexico in Breaking Bad.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Also, has it been mentioned before that (minor spoiler below)

Spoiler:

Gus Fring is gay?

It was heavily implied in Breaking Bad, though I don’t think anyone came out a directly said it.

[McNutt]

Was it implied anywhere other than the Mexican pool scene?

[McNutt]

Also, has Gus ever killed anyone not "in the business?" He's killed or had killed lots of people, but most of them were people in the trade in some way or another. In the last episode he threatened to kill a bunch of innocent old guys in the restaurant. Has he ever done anything like that?

It's a small thing, but it makes a big difference in his character. Would he kill innocents? I know he's a cold blooded dude.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Yeah - that also felt a bit off to me. Of course, perhaps he wouldn't have gone through with the threat, but it still definitely feels like a change from what we've seen before.

[hepcat]

I always got the feeling that after his lover was killed, Gus lost any humanity that he might have still had in a business that relies on one being able to put such things aside.

He doesn't like to kill simply because it draws attention to himself, and he's nothing if not the consummate professional. But if murder can help his business, I have a feeling there's no one he wouldn't have taken out.

Mike's connection to Gus in BB, his almost unerring loyalty, is what sometimes throws me. Mike struggles with his conscience in Better Call Saul on more than one occasion. Especially after what happened to the engineer on Gus' orders. So I suspect something will happen in BCS that causes Mike to lose that struggle before the beginning of BB.

[McNutt]

Seeing Mike snap at his granddaughter shows just how broken Mike is. He is completely weighed down with his conscience right now, which is something he seems to have just accepted by BB.

So we are in 2004 now. When did Breaking Bad take place? 2004?

edit - Internet tells me 2008.

[JCC]

Also, has Gus ever killed anyone not "in the business?" He's killed or had killed lots of people, but most of them were people in the trade in some way or another. In the last episode he threatened to kill a bunch of innocent old guys in the restaurant.

I seem to remember him threatening someone's "family" before in BB. Even if I am wrong about that, I don't think it's an inconsistency. Just because we don't know he hasn't killed innocents doesn't mean he hasn't. Also, everything from the episode could have just been a form of intimidation. I think it's silly to think that VG would forget about any aspect of a character that fans would pick up on. He always seems to be totally dialed in to that stuff in interviews, etc.

[McNutt]

I certainly wasn't insinuating this was a character inconsistency, only asking if he's shown himself to do that sort of thing.

[Jaymann]

They managed to keep Howard in play, he wants to have lunch with Jimmy, er Saul.

[McNutt]

Not sure where they are going with Kim. She's finding she has to do unpleasant things to make the money, but we all know that. How will that affect her relationship with Jimmy?

Good to see Hank again.

This was a meh episode.

[Kraken]

Yeah, mainly a setup episode. I did like seeing Nacho get into the Salamanca gang.

[stimpy]

Wtf was with the bottle tossing?
If you're upset about something, angry sex is the way to go.
Not wasting perfectly good beer!!

[Jaymann]

I think those were dead soldiers.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I enjoyed it, but it definitely was a set-up episode. But I think the opening with the ants was my favorite BCS opening ever. I'm not sure how they got those shots (I'm 90% sure they were real ants?), but the whole scene was pretty awesome.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Wtf was with the bottle tossing?
If you're upset about something, angry sex is the way to go.
Not wasting perfectly good beer!!

I suspect chucking the beer bottles was a visceral reaction intended to illustrate not so much a point of no return, but a demonstration of the two of them both realising they've already passed one and didn’t fully realise it at the time (i.e. Jimmy/Saul getting on the Salamanca family payroll and Kim's Mesa Verde obligations).

It's going to be interesting to see how Kim's fate plays out and ultimately entwines with Jimmy/Saul's shenanigans. I can't help but think that's going to be ugly for Kim.

[McNutt]

Kim has a conscience
Mike hates himself
Howard is a saint
Jimmy is the devil

This might be the first time I've seen Jimmy do something to hurt people when there's nothing in it for him. Howard offers him a job, not out of pity, but because he always admired certain qualities of Jimmy. So Jimmy throws bowling balls at his car. What an asshole.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Kim has a conscience
Mike hates himself
Howard is a saint
Jimmy is the devil

This might be the first time I've seen Jimmy do something to hurt people when there's nothing in it for him. Howard offers him a job, not out of pity, but because he always admired certain qualities of Jimmy. So Jimmy throws bowling balls at his car. What an asshole.

Yeah, that was a terrific illustration of Jimmy/Saul demonstrating his true colours. He wasn't merely uninterested in the job Howard offered him. It offended him seeing just how well Howard was coping emotionally since their previous encounter in the men’s room. Chuck’s death clearly damaged both of them. But where Jimmy had to turn himself into a largely new person to survive it, Howard evidently managed to turn himself back into the fundamentally decent bloke he used to be over time. And it's Howard's ability to achieve that serenity that marks him as someone worthy of Jimmy/Saul’s contempt and vengeance.

[McNutt]

And Mike. Wow. He immediately saw that his past (and current sins) have damaged, maybe permanently, his relationship with the most important thing in his life. His granddaughter is everything to him and he wants to use her to right his past wrongs by keeping her from the evils of the world, which he failed to do with his son.

The character of Mike is just fantastic and heart-wrenching. Johnathan Banks is so perfectly cast.

[Jaymann]

Also I'm wondering how Fring plays out his long game. He just burned $750 large for...something.

[McNutt]

I'm glad I'm not the only one following that plan. Is all this just to avoid killing Domingo? That's a lot of money to give up for someone.

[The Meal]

I'm glad I'm not the only one following that plan. Is all this just to avoid killing Domingo? That's a lot of money to give up for someone.

I assume this is all a set up for how he clowns Hank in the future.

[hepcat]

I have to think that Gus' long game with this is being able to keep Lalo unaware of how much Gus REALLY knows, and creating a controlled CI with Domingo (while also making Lalo think that HE controls that CI).

Gus is Gus because he isn't reactionary. He's usually looking 10 miles down the road at any one point. That's what makes him one of the all time great TV villains.

[Jaymann]

WTF was Jimmy/Saul smashing in that bag with a hammer?