Octopus Overlords

Not my career, but good news on the spousal front: my wife got a part-time job. She stayed home when our son was born, but he's 8 now, and she's been hankering to get back in the working world for a while. She doesn't want to go back to her old career track, so finding the right opportunity has been hard.

The new job is just what she was looking for: part-time with enough flexibility that she can continue to pick up the kid after school. It's an administrative position at an after-school and summer camp program that he attends. While it doesn't pay much, the owner said that our son can now attend the program for free, which is going to save us a few thousand dollars this year.

I'm going to be facing a pretty major decision pretty soon.

After 29 years here, my company is looking to build out new "centers of expertise" away from IL. We haven't been able to hire infrastructure IT people in IL for about the past 4 years now, and they've been building out new centers in Charlotte and Dallas and Phoenix. Any of our new hires have been in either those locations, or Northern Ireland, or India.

We've been told that over the next two to three years, they're going to be moving all of IS out of IL to either Charlotte or Phoenix. Some jobs will probably be eliminated through attrition. Everyone whose job is moved will have to re-apply for those jobs. Despite the fact that we enable users to work from home, being a home-based worker will not be an option except in exceptional cases (or you're grandfathered in.) For some reason our CTO doesn't believe in home based IT workers.

No word on severance packages for those that don't want to move. If you are high enough in the company they will pay for moving expenses.

I don't think I can afford to retire yet...I turn 55 next year, but I haven't sat down to do all of the math yet. I still have a couple of kids to get through college, so I'm really not sure it's feasible. But I really don't want to uproot my family to move somewhere new. My parents are getting to the age where I'm going to really need to be around (even if around is 4 hours away.)

So no real upside here. I'm keeping my eyes open for new opportunities, but I will most likely have to accept a pay cut, as well as a loss of probably half my vacation days. After having 30-30 PTO days a year, I'm not sure how I could handle going back to 10, maybe 15.

First of all, thingslike PTO and salary are negotiable. Are you certain that after 29 years your salary kept up with market rates? Every time I thought I might not do better than my last job I've always found something that pays better. My current job pays more than I ever made, but after 9 years of 1% raises, I suspect I can do better.

As far as PTO, I got 35 days off the bat when I worked at a hospital. But there was no short term disability and no separate sick pay. You kind of have to evaluate the equivalency of a given benefits package.

Fwiw my last two "interviews" were such that they really wanted me. HR was absolutely unable to play ball with PTO but could lay scads of money at my feet. I turned the first one down. This second time I had a plan going in. They couldn't budge on the pto, so I suggested that I work 80%fte with no reduction in the take home pay I was receiving. My little gambit paid off.

HR's dog and pony show for the yearly review/raise structure is complete, and our 2% pittance came through for myself and my minion. Despite being told in previous years that they wanted to lump promotions in at the same time to avoid proration calculations at this point, we're now being told that promotions for our area are being deferred until end of Q2 at the moment. Assuming they have their act together for that time frame, of course. I'll be holding my breath.

I hate you. Your pittance is double mine.

Your base is probably a lot higher.

Talking to a headhunter this evening, first time in probably 25 years. They have a pretty good match for a job for me, but the salary is a bit low. We'll see how the call goes.

Someone posted in response to someone else in of these work threads about how you respond to others being lazy etc and just letting it go. Can't find the post and I want to share it with my wife. Anyone got a link?

tjg_marantz wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 6:34 pm Someone posted in response to someone else in of these work threads about how you respond to others being lazy etc and just letting it go. Can't find the post and I want to share it with my wife. Anyone got a link?

This?

Close. Just a bit higher up by LM. But thanks for getting me on the right track!

The bit about each of us have our own arrangement with work.

I turned in my keys yesterday after being with the same school system for 19 years. I've signed a contract for the next school year already but it still feels odd to be officially unemployed for a couple of months.

Madmarcus wrote:I turned in my keys yesterday after being with the same school system for 19 years. I've signed a contract for the next school year already but it still feels odd to be officially unemployed for a couple of months.

Yay!

?

The new contract is not in Georgia so it feels a little bigger than if I had justswitched districts.

Working in IT, you never want to hear that your boss wants to start "Job Shadowing" his people. I caught a side note from one of the upper managers that the owners are going to discuss this at the next executive meeting. She said the last time they did this, three years ago, it resulted in a someone being let go for inefficiency.

If I'm doing my job right, my day has flexibility to chase down and handle any random issue that crops up. If I'm doing my job wrong or am chronically understaffed, I'm flat-out insane busy all day with a backlog. I like to think I'm doing my job right. The business network runs well, people are happy with the level of support they get, I'm attentive to issues, available quickly, and I've always gotten the impression that people like working with me. But that means I'm not busy all day and have time to putt around online, post here, and try to stay sane between user calls.

The new owners here (there are 4 of them) took over 2 years ago and in the last 6 months it seems that one of them found her legs and she's become something of a tyrant. No one is good enough, and she's quite content to smile to your face and slide a blade between your ribs when you turn around. I'm already looking for my "out" but don't know how long it'll take to find a good job. A couple people have already quit because of her, and a few more want to - me included.

I'm imagining this directive is coming down from her. My boss is one of the other owners, and he could care less about most everything. I don't even know if I'm on the list of people being observed, but I want to plan like I am.

So if I'm having a busy support day - I've got nothing to worry about. If my phone doesn't ring much, I've got to have a plan to keep busy and bore him to death while he watches me. I've already got the customary server event log reviews, in-depth research of some errors, backup checks, firewall checks, network monitors, and update reviews to numb his mind - what else can I throw in there?

In Tech there is *always* a backlog of things that could be done, but you put off because they aren't a priority and there is always something else to do. My position has some similarity to yours where there are people that count on me to help them when the need arises and it could be in ten minutes or next week. I have a pretty extensive backlog of work that is useful but nobody is going to miss if it isn't done like documentation, unit tests, old code that needs to be refactored, libraries that should be updated, new technologies to try out. I can use all that to fill near infinite down time... or I can browse the net.

If there is really nothing left for you to improve, not just busy work, then you should probably move on anyway.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:43 amIf there is really nothing left for you to improve, not just busy work, then you should probably move on anyway.

Highlighting the important part here. There's a lot I can improve, and I think I've done as much as I can for free. The new owners are budget-conscious, though. Maybe more because of their loan payments and having to discuss CapEx with their loan officer.

• Over the last year I led a project to move the business to a new core app, which has saved so much time that they were able to lay off a couple people, and also saved maybe $3000/yr in support costs. They liked that.
• I recently pushed us to fiber at two sites using a SIP trunk for phones, and saved us ~$100 per month on costs. They liked that.
• I have a proposal out to them for 62 new desktops before January 14th, 2020 so we can stay HIPAA compliant. Crickets.
• I have a a proposal out to them for a new server to start replacing/virtualizing the 7 servers we have beyond the end of warranty. Crickets.
• I have a proposal out to them to update our backup software (support for Symantec is over, they won't renew, and it's broken). Crickets.

I have a lot I want to do, but can't. All that's left is maintaining a lot of antique computers and servers, and doing day-to-day troubleshooting for users.

In all honestly, when I leave, I'm going to strongly recommend that they get someone to do the job that's fresh out of college. What they need does not take someone with a decade of experience to perform correctly.

Could you turn your day-with-shadow into soapbox day and inundate the poor person with your spiel(s) for why these projects are vital for the company's long-term existence? Could probably kill a lot of time that way.

My career is not going as planned, but has been better over the last month.
For a while, I was out of a job due to having cancer and my company letting me go during that time. I was living off my credit cards for a long time, so when I did finally get a settlement, it was gone. Then I had a car accident that screwed me up for a while and I again was unable to find a job, much less anything else for almost a year. Again, I lived off my credit cards up until 4/2017 when I finally got a job in my field. The job paid a lot less than I wanted at the time, but I was desperate.
As of last month I negotiated a substantial raise at my current job. I am still underpaid, by industry standards, but am making more than I was before. However, I am now in debt hell and don't know if I can climb out. On top of everything else, I had to move a couple months ago and the place I am now living is substantially more expensive, but is way closer to my place of work. I know it is mostly my fault for accumulating so much credit card debt, but I am still depressed about it. I feel like I can't get ahead. My check is gone way before I even get it and I have 0 savings left.
I'm not asking for help or anything, just need to get this out.

Isn't your situation precisely what bankruptcies were made for? I'm not a fan of the idea at all but... Cancer... and what our system does.

Good luck to you. You're living out some of my greatest fears in life. I feel for you.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:41 pmIsn't your situation precisely what bankruptcies were made for?

Even if you qualify, it can be really - really - hard for a responsible adult to stomach the concept. Other people, not so much.

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:43 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:41 pmIsn't your situation precisely what bankruptcies were made for?

Even if you qualify, it can be really - really - hard for a responsible adult to stomach the concept. Other people, not so much.

I know. You're talking to a guy who should have saved a $100,000 by walking away from his mortgage when every one else around him did. But I had the means, so I took it like a sucker and I was punished for it but not qualifying for any of the interest reductions or tax breaks. But that's nothing compared to losing your job and getting cancer. To me that seems like the very definition of when things beyond your control turn so sour that you need the recourse of the public safety net.

After 20 years in IT I think I'm ready to get out. I'm currently at an MSP that's dangerously understaffed and I'd like to get out before the stress starts causing me problems.

The problem I'm facing is I have 20 years of experience in a field that I want to leave. I'm also at the point in my life where I'd like my work to be beneficial rather than just a place where I spend 9 hours for a paycheck. I've been looking at non-profits but I fear I'd have to take a huge paycut which isn't really feasible right now.

Exodor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:19 pm I've been looking at non-profits but I fear I'd have to take a huge paycut which isn't really feasible right now.

I've been at least partially fulfilling that gap with volunteer work in schools and pro bono work for a disabilities rights organization. It helps that my company is supportive and I can do these things during the regular work day, though, because I'd be hard pressed to find time to do it outside of work.

Exodor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:19 pmThe problem I'm facing is I have 20 years of experience in a field that I want to leave.

This is why I'm going to school for a Bachelors in Business Admin/Management before I'm wildly burned out on IT. I figure I can leverage that into a career working with technology, but not being up to my elbows in printer fixes, desktop issues, and user questions. More like an IT Director somewhere. I keep stabbing at it, and eventually it'll catch.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:41 pm Isn't your situation precisely what bankruptcies were made for? I'm not a fan of the idea at all but... Cancer... and what our system does.

Good luck to you. You're living out some of my greatest fears in life. I feel for you.

Thank you. I considered bankruptcy, but in my situation I don't think I'd qualify. I make enough that I should be living comfortably, but am not. Mostly because I can't get ahead of the debt. It is going to take just as long living like this and paying down my debt as it would to go through a bankruptcy, have it stick like a scarlet A to my credit report, and eventually fall off. Should I need a car loan in 4-5 years which is highly likely, having paid off some of the debt would look miles better than having a bankruptcy, credit-wise.
The very sad fact is that even though I was ill and had a bad run of luck, that doesn't show on a credit report. It friggin should, but it doesn't. It only shows what your credit is like numbers wise, not how it got that way. I'm sure I am not the first nor the last person that has this issue.
I also acknowledge that I made some very poor decisions while I was unemployed/under employed, financially speaking.

Sectoid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:24 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:41 pm Isn't your situation precisely what bankruptcies were made for? I'm not a fan of the idea at all but... Cancer... and what our system does.

Good luck to you. You're living out some of my greatest fears in life. I feel for you.

Thank you. I considered bankruptcy, but in my situation I don't think I'd qualify. I make enough that I should be living comfortably, but am not. Mostly because I can't get ahead of the debt. It is going to take just as long living like this and paying down my debt as it would to go through a bankruptcy, have it stick like a scarlet A to my credit report, and eventually fall off. Should I need a car loan in 4-5 years which is highly likely, having paid off some of the debt would look miles better than having a bankruptcy, credit-wise.
The very sad fact is that even though I was ill and had a bad run of luck, that doesn't show on a credit report. It friggin should, but it doesn't. It only shows what your credit is like numbers wise, not how it got that way. I'm sure I am not the first nor the last person that has this issue.
I also acknowledge that I made some very poor decisions while I was unemployed/under employed, financially speaking.

I have nothing to add except lending a voice of support for what you're going through. That's just some straight-up shitty luck, and I'm hopeful that your situation will improve.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:59 pm I have nothing to add except lending a voice of support for what you're going through. That's just some straight-up shitty luck, and I'm hopeful that your situation will improve.

Thank you. I hope so too.

Exodor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:19 pm After 20 years in IT I think I'm ready to get out. I'm currently at an MSP that's dangerously understaffed and I'd like to get out before the stress starts causing me problems.

The problem I'm facing is I have 20 years of experience in a field that I want to leave. I'm also at the point in my life where I'd like my work to be beneficial rather than just a place where I spend 9 hours for a paycheck. I've been looking at non-profits but I fear I'd have to take a huge paycut which isn't really feasible right now.

One of my favourite stories from University is of a fellow student that by any definition was a genius. Just a brilliant kid (we were all kids, but man he looked the part), top of the class, little to no effort, out drinking the night before exams, 90%'s in everything, summer interned (we don't have internships. It was a job) for one of Canada's top Aerospace companies.

Years later I ran into some mutual friends and asked how he was doing. He had left engineering and entered the intellectually demanding field of forest ranger. I thought it was just a brilliant move on his part although physically I wondered how he could handle it. He was tiny and fragile looking.

I entered engineering because like you I wanted my work to be beneficial and have a concrete, positive effect on the world. Advertising is the exact opposite of what I was thinking. Nowadays, I have the occasional fantasy of apprenticing in a trade. Construction mostly, because building things seems productive and can benefit your personal life in many ways.

All that rambling was just to say that I can identify with the idea of leaving your current job to find some other way to have a productive, meaningful work life.

I make too much (well, I couldn't make the same in another field is what I mean) doing what I'm doing to just leave, and I'm too big a coward to take the risk anyway. Still, maybe one day I'll see if I can apprentice on weekends or something. Once the kids are out of the house.

One of my college roommates was a forestry major. I was always a little bemused that one needed a four-year degree to be a tree cop.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:41 pm One of my college roommates was a forestry major. I was always a little bemused that one needed a four-year degree to be a tree cop.

One of my college roommates became an internationally certified arborist. You'd be amazed at what you can learn about trees.

Sectoid wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:53 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:59 pm I have nothing to add except lending a voice of support for what you're going through. That's just some straight-up shitty luck, and I'm hopeful that your situation will improve.

Thank you. I hope so too.

As someone living in the same awful state, I can totally appreciate the hamster-wheel feeling of existence here - it's not just you. In the same vein, I can only commiserate and offer you my voice of support as well. At least we have a new Governor - maybe things will get better....

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:48 pm

Sectoid wrote:Thank you. I hope so too.

As someone living in the same awful state, I can totally appreciate the hamster-wheel feeling of existence here - it's not just you. In the same vein, I can only commiserate and offer you my voice of support as well. At least we have a new Governor - maybe things will get better....

Thanks. We still have to meet up sometime. I'm not sure when, but sometime.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:41 pm One of my college roommates was a forestry major. I was always a little bemused that one needed a four-year degree to be a tree cop.

I used to work with a guy who had a PhD in Forestry. He was a network engineer.

Before going in the army I thought seriously about becoming a forest ranger. I'm sure the job now is completely different than then......you know, Teddy Roosevelt.

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:42 amWorking in IT, you never want to hear that your boss wants to start "Job Shadowing" his people.

Apparently this died on the table in the owner's meeting. We'll see if it makes a comeback. Still a horrible concept, worthy of the PHB from Dilbert.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:36 pm Before going in the army I thought seriously about becoming a forest ranger. I'm sure the job now is completely different than then......you know, Teddy Roosevelt.

There were trees then?

We recently had one of our top techs leave the company. This morning my boss came to me offering to pay for training that will lead to a promotion to that role which comes with a significant pay increase.

I'm torn. I appreciate the offer of training and the opportunity to advance my career but I'm still feeling burned out on IT and unsure if I want to continue being in the field.


The dick move would be to complete the training and then look for a new job in a year when I have a bunch of shiny new certs to add to my resume.

Fitzy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:14 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:36 pm Before going in the army I thought seriously about becoming a forest ranger. I'm sure the job now is completely different than then......you know, Teddy Roosevelt.

There were trees then?

No, there was just dirt. That's what finally changed my mind.

Exodor wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:40 pm We recently had one of our top techs leave the company. This morning my boss came to me offering to pay for training that will lead to a promotion to that role which comes with a significant pay increase.

Always take the training. If the "significant pay increase" turns out to be smoke and mirrors, the training is still shiny on a resume.