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How is your career going?

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ManAboutNothing
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by ManAboutNothing »

Paingod wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:19 pm
But who actually gets that experience without someone taking a risk on them?
My situation too. I mean, i've been trying to transition into a job of some sort with a larger game company, and had no luck at all so far with dozens of ignored apps and rejections. I've released 15 indie games and been in the trenches for 22+ years now and done tons of (effective) QA on my stuff, and I figured that might have given me an edge over some young kid who just stepped out of "game design college", but that hasn't been the case to date.

I KNOW I can produce or supervise a game being made, keep it on track and make reasonable decisions on game balance and stuff like that, but those positions all require at least "X years" shipping games for big companies. I have the equivalent of that already i'm pretty sure, but how do I get that without someone taking a risk on me, as you said?
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Aim lower in the food chain.

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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

ManAboutNothing wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:58 pm
I figured that might have given me an edge over some young kid who just stepped out of "game design college", but that hasn't been the case to date.
I KNOW I can produce or supervise a game being made, keep it on track and make reasonable decisions on game balance and stuff like that, but those positions all require at least "X years" shipping games for big companies. I have the equivalent of that already i'm pretty sure, but how do I get that without someone taking a risk on me, as you said?
Go to a smaller company. Small frog in a small pond and all that. :)
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Blackhawk »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:09 pm
Aim lower in the food chain.
Much lower. People don't trust piles of money to unproven (to them) employees. Take any position that gets your foot in the door. You said Q&A testing. Apply for in-house Q&A, then put out the best damned reports they've ever seen while applying for every development position that comes available, then work your way up.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

I just realized due to leap day, I have MORE than 72 hours to finish this course. (I need to finish this before 23:59 on March 1st to stay within the 7-day free period).

EDIT: And I don't need it! The IT Fundamentals for Cybersecurity Specialization Certificate is mine! Muahahahaha! :dance: :whistle: :dance: :mrgreen:
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by hitbyambulance »

can be incredibly awkward being the only contractor - there's a catered lunch team meeting now for everyone _except_ me.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Octavious »

malchior wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:15 pm
Paingod wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:19 pm
Paingod wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:06 am
In my research yesterday...
Turns out one day of Wiki research can't make you an expert with years of experience.

I think my call with them went as well as it could have, but that simply means I'll be shocked if I get a call from them for a second interview. I just don't have the experience they're looking for. Managing small non-programming teams, sure. Doing break-neck project management and cat-wrangling? Nope.

But who actually gets that experience without someone taking a risk on them?
Typical path IMO would be working in a big enough environment that you could get assigned to one, mentored if need be, and not need to be hired directly to do it. It's a high risk, low reward proposition for the hiring manager to take a chance on someone who hasn't done it before.
This is how I got my job. Started in HD and worked my way up. Now I manage the global release of software for MDLZ. If I really fuck up I could tank my entire company. And people would get their cookies late. :lol:
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Jeff V »

Snuck out of office early today to fetch the boy from school. The moment I walked out the door, got the unwelcome chime of a Google Hangout...my boss seems to like sending missives at the end of the day on Fridays. Pulled over several times to monitor the conversation and reply if necessary (basically he was warning me and my peer that travel requests for March were over budget and some will likely be declined). Fine, whatever. I put the phone away and was horrified that it started making the noise it does when calling someone on Google. Yes, I butt-dialed a conference call. Before I could stop it, both peer and boss answered. :doh: I don't think my camera ever kicked on...peer and boss started arguing over who called who, boss was in a noisy place (presumed to be a bar) and when I finally made it clear it was me who butt-dialed, there was a laugh as both hung up. I really hope my camera wasn't on though revealing I was in the car at 2:30 pm.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

Applied to 3 more jobs... ANY tech support, basically. Don't even need to be high-tech (would be nice, but probably not gonna happen). Decided to blow off the customer service job application... Not gonna call the guy back. Not really what I wanted to do.
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ManAboutNothing
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by ManAboutNothing »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:09 pm
Aim lower in the food chain.
Yeah, I did include about a dozen applications to QA stuff, apprentice/entry game designer and writing and such too. Nothing. Seems weird that 22 years in the indie trenches with a moderate amount of success in a few cases counts for nothing, but that's the case it seems like.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Find a recruiter.

malchior
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by malchior »

Shorten the time range of your experience on your resume.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

malchior wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Shorten the time range of your experience on your resume.
Not a bad irea for some. Some may see that you stuck in one role as "not promotable" instead of "very experienced"
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by malchior »

Also age discrimination is a thing. Especially in tech.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Paingod »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:09 pm
Aim lower in the food chain.
One of the problems with where I live is that the "food chain" is pretty damn short. According to this summary, we have exactly 2 companies with 10000+ employees, and 21 with 1000-9999 employees. That feels about right, even if it's not entirely accurate. The 100th spot was occupied by a place with 175 employees. I assume it takes a fair number of employees - maybe 300+ before you can start "working your way up" in any appreciable capacity (in IT). That gives me 73 companies I can look at - across the entire state.

Maine is not a hotbed of "work your way up from the bottom" jobs. I often see these job postings (the ones that require very specific strong interdisciplinary skills) go unfilled for months on end. People just don't get the experience because there are very few options to start with. Just about every job I apply for has 50+ other "equally qualified" candidates. Others desperate to move up as well. This is why I went back to college to start working on a Business Leadership degree.

This list I found, though, looks like I found 73 places to whip off resumes to unprompted... so that's a good thing. I'm going to parse through that list and see how many are withing a reasonable driving distance (less than 60 minutes). *Edit: about 30 of them. I saw several names I've applied to in the last year, and several more that are chains with dozens of locations that have 5-8 employees in each (corner stores).
malchior wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:19 pm
Also age discrimination is a thing. Especially in tech.
This is a strong consideration for me in my desire to move UP and away from "One-Man-Show" scenes. I feel very strongly that age is less relevant when you're managing an IT team and may be seen as more of an asset. I worry that despite ongoing experience in the field, I've got a "Best if used by" date on me that's very close.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

Okay, guys, apparently, I'm not getting anywhere with my job search. It's been a month. My resume sucks because I haven't worked in my field of expertise for over a decade, so I have to get certified in SOMETHING.

I can go standby with A+ or one of the Microsoft certs, but I was thinking doing cybersecurity. There's a class on Coursera ISC^2 issued ISSC which basically gives me the credentials to sit for SSCP certification exam. And I have no problem buying a dead trees book for desk reference and test prep. It seems less boring than technical support, as all I see in SF Bay Area are basically consulting firms doing contracted tech support for clients, and us reps have to drive all over the SF Bay Area to client sites to take care of problems. I figure with SSCP cybersecurity I'd at least get a desk job sitting in an office somewhere instead of driving all over the SF Bay Area.

What do you guys think?

(TL;DR: I'm not gonna convince someone I can do data science with one intro course under my belt, and there's too much competition in tech support)
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Try a coding bootcamp or a college program, something that has career services support.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by hentzau »

Just had my review. Not bad. It was a sucky year, we lost a lot of folks, but I still delivered my team's major initiatives on time, so that got be a Better Than Expected review. First meaningful pay increase in a couple of years, plus a good bonus. So, yay.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

That UC Berkeley extension bootcamp turned me off to bootcamps... They wanted $12000. And many of those bootcamps listed at that websites wanted EVEN MORE. Like 15-17K.

EDIT: Okay, f*** me. Coursera has a bait-and-switch here. They have official ISC^2 online course prep for SSCP exam... full six courses. But they didn't say that six courses together are $1080. For as an intro offer, they'll sell you the first course (out of 6) for $200. They kinda lead me to believe that total cost was $200. ARGH.

At this rate I should do data science/ data engineer with "Architecting with Google Compute Engine Specialization" (5- courses) ($49 if I finish in 1 month) which gets me a certificate as "associate cloud engineer" and lets me take an exam to get Google certified ($150).

Then I can move onto "Data Engineering with Google Cloud Professional certificate"... $49 a month, and I'm pretty sure I can finish the course in 2 weeks or so, and sit for the Google Cloud Professional Data Engineer exam. (which is $200).

Probably won't make as much as a security engineer but wouldn't cost me as much out of pocket.

But I will start tomorrow morning. No point starting today and give them a day.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Look into actually using the skills you have. Find some open source communities and local coding groups and network.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Jeff V »

A friend of mine who, with a degree in maritime engineering from King's Point and the required stint in the navy, didn't qualify for anything beside sole educated person aboard a supply ship serving oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. He tired of that quickly, went to a programming bootcamp at DePaul University, and was immediately employed by Rand McNally (where, incidentally, he met his wife). His IT career proceeded without interruption until his death a couple of years ago, including a stint working in the same hospital I did where he was my technical resource on a implementation project I managed.

The cost for that program does not seem the least bit outlandish to me, not compared with future employment possibilities. Presumably the certificate you get will carry more weight than, say, passing the same certs after receiving instruction via YouTube videos.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

I know the 12K cost seems "reasonable" when looking at the overall environment, but I have 2K in savings I need to survive on, 6K in debt (credit card), 12K, even when financed, just seems to be a HUGE number I can't wrap my head around.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Laughs in $70k in student loans

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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

But I'm 49 looking at 50. *sigh*

Next bootcamp in SF for UCB starts on March 9th. I think I have time to get on that one, if I find financing.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

I'm about to be 44.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Jeff V »

Kasey Chang wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:23 pm
I know the 12K cost seems "reasonable" when looking at the overall environment, but I have 2K in savings I need to survive on, 6K in debt (credit card), 12K, even when financed, just seems to be a HUGE number I can't wrap my head around.
Does the program qualify for any scholarships or student loans?

My wife really wants to get started on her RN/BSN, but her work schedule and the fact our kids aren't in all-day school yet kind of puts a damper on things. It doesn't help that she found out some FOTB RNs are making less than she is as an experienced LPN.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

Bootcamps are not Title IV institutions, so no Federal student aid. I can get private lender loans, and rates are not too bad... 5-11%, much less than credit card rates.

Waiting for the bank to update me tomorrow. *sigh*

EDIT: Loans' approved at 6.24%, 15 year term. Now just need paperwork to finish and I can start class on Monday.

Now I need a laptop for school. My ancient i7 laptop is too heavy to lug, and I don't think a tiny Chromebook is good for their class. Want to keep it under $400 if possible. prefer a 15.6. it's for programming, so speed isn't essential.

Just got another rejection. Only emphasizes my lack of "current" skills.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Hiring for a specialist position. Basically 25% admin assistant and 75% project manager. Sub 6-figure salary.

Have had 2 MDs out of 15 applicants.



Also, don't copy and paste your full resume into the online form's work history section. Ain't no one got time for that. Make it short and to the point. If someone likes what they see, they'll pull up the resume.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

In a way, deciding to go back to school made me feel less stressful. All those rejection notices do get me in a foul mood.

EDIT: Just ordered myself a new laptop: the cheapest 17 inch laptop I can find. I have a mouse already (and a bunch of other stuff). Since it's for programming actual resolution and video card didn't matter... It was below 1080p, but I figure I need the screen real estate more than I need the actual resolution. I have a laptop bag already. It'll be here by Friday.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

I am now officially enrolled and 12500 poorer. (tuition plus new laptop plus stuff) Fortunately, the classroom is actually walkable (takes about 20-30 minutes)... and I may just buy a helmet and start biking to work, as there's a city bike stand nearby (prices are cheap enough, just need a bike helmet)

EDIT: And who'd knew bike helmets are so expensive? On the normal sizes you can get like 20-30 ones. But for the XL heads, they start at $60 and go UP from there.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

With the arrival of new laptop, it's time to configure all the **** and get myself off this topic for 12 weeks or so.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: How is your career going?

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With the arrival of new laptop, it's time to configure all the **** and get myself off this topic for 12 weeks or so.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

My boss got chopped out of my line, so I’m reporting direct to our CIO (Innovation). He’s our former PM and we’ve been through the trenches on two mergers.

Former boss is making noises about retiring in two years, which, assuming I don’t piss off the wrong people and his investments don’t go to shit, means I could be looking at Senior VP at that point.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kraken »

My Nvidia project ends this week, and I just got hired to tackle the Globe's Salute to Nurses again starting next week. They met my demand for a 20% raise, and in fact offered 25% just to sweeten the pot. Much as I dislike editing that nurses package (this will be my third year), the money from that + Nvidia will get me thru the summer even if my daily gig with MIT dries up when the Institute closes next week.

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Re: How is your career going?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kraken wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:37 pm
I dislike editing that nurses package (this will be my third year)
You do Photoshop too?
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Re: How is your career going?

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Argh... One of the "milestones" we had to do for the boot camp is going through their "career workshop", and milestone 2 is "create a personal branding statement". And frankly, I'm studying to be a web developer (again). I am starting my career over. I don't have a branding statement, sheesh. EVERYTHING I came up with sounds cheesy as f***. They all feel like too generic, or too boastful, and just feels untrue.

I don't even know what to specialize in just yet, and I really am a "jack of all trades", which makes writing a "branding statement" extremely difficult. All sorts of advice are out there, but they gave examples of specialists and marketing people, very few about web developers, and even fewer about NEW web developers.

And it gets worse when they want to talk about online presence. My online persona is NOTHING like my work persona. My blog is whatever struck my fancy, and mainly about critical thinking and scams, NOT about programming.

So far, best I came up with was:
I am a full-stack engineer with experience in Node.js and React.js. I had previously worked as a database and web developer and created a custom database app that virtually eliminated assembly line errors for a critical client. I had been programming for decades. I recently taught myself Python and Selenium to write a small web scraping bot so I can get my Fastrak account information every morning. I have taken IT Support, Data Science and Cybersecurity classes to broaden my horizons. Currently, I seek a role in a company where I can apply my skills and grow into my areas of interest.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

For the heck of it, I decided to get "IBM Applied AI Certificate" on Coursera. Why not, it's just $3.14 in honor of Pi Day. Turns out, one of my courses taken for IBM Data Science counts toward this course, so I only have to take 5 courses, and I already finished two, leaving 3, and this is in addition to my coding bootcamp, which I am cruising through as my Javascript knowledge seems to outstrip everybody else's. I'm sure it'll be tougher next week, as we're basically moving through **** at breakneck pace. Bootstrap framework was pretty much glossed over (spent maybe 2 hours in class, then we're supposed to code a 3-page website with it, hahaha.)

Now that we're on Javascript, I already finished the homework due on Friday just before Midnight two days ago. I am wondering what the NEXT homework is, but I guess I'll find out today. In the meanwhile, I have to use the time to finish up the Python course they didn't make available until past Monday, and whatever else this IBM Applied AI course throws at me, before I got too busy doing the real schoolwork here.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Had to go through a temperature checkpoint to come into to work. Was taking with a ER nurse and a security officer afterwards. The ER guy is a former army medic. The security officer asked if I was "front line" staff. I said not really but I have to finish up some COVID tasks for "front line" staff and then I'm going to try to work from home. The ER guy chuckled, "You're good, you're a Fobbit." He was surprised I knew what he meant. I wasn't sure how to feel
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Kasey Chang »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:57 am
\The ER guy chuckled, "You're good, you're a Fobbit." He was surprised I knew what he meant. I wasn't sure how to feel
At least he didn't call you REMF.
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Re: How is your career going?

Post by Isgrimnur »

From my experience, those are the same thing, just from different generations.

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