[TV] Daredevil Season 1, et al.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:06 am

Odin wrote:
Moliere wrote:Thank god for Netflix so I can fast forward through every scene that includes Karen Page.
???

I'm baffled by this. She's not lighting up the screen or anything, but I haven't noticed any issues. She certainly hasn't made me want to reach for the remote.

She's just an all around weak actress. Every scene she's in drops the quality of the otherwise superb performances of those around her.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:21 pm

The one and only thing I've found cringe-worthy so far in this show (I think I'm on ep 7) is the laughably inaccurate courtroom mechanics. I understand that ACTUAL courtroom procedures are tedious as hell, but at least make an effort for crissakes.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:24 pm

We're only 3? episodes in but I think it's great they found a way to out-do season 1's hallway fight. Does anyone know if that was done in one cut? There were a few moments where it looked like they might have stopped.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:41 pm

Odin wrote:The one and only thing I've found cringe-worthy so far in this show (I think I'm on ep 7) is the laughably inaccurate courtroom mechanics. I understand that ACTUAL courtroom procedures are tedious as hell, but at least make an effort for crissakes.

How about the prison scene of the Kingpin bench pressing 500 pounds? He is way too small to do that. Also, look at how the bar bends when it's actually holding that much weight.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:04 pm

Yeah, that totally drew me out of the show. Way more than a dude who can hear distinct heartbeats 50 feet away in a cacophony of sounds and an ex-military dude with no powers who can demolish anything he encounters while simultaneously delivering verbal jabs.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:47 pm

I disagree with the verdict from this Vox.com review (I had fun and downed the season in 4 days...), but have a tough time shooting down its arguments. Certainly, they're right that Murdock is a raging asshole.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:16 pm

Zaxxon wrote:I disagree with the verdict from this Vox.com review (I had fun and downed the season in 4 days...), but have a tough time shooting down its arguments. Certainly, they're right that Murdock is a raging asshole.

Good review, most comprehensive I've read. I disagree with about half his points. The woman problem I don't think is, as both women are independent and strong and only occasionally discuss actual love interest stuff. Though they do get damsel in distressed a bit too much. Also I think his body count is inaccurate it felt that Electra took out way more people than DD. And in fact kept them from getting back up.

Spoiler:

And as for nobody standing up to Matt. The season is about everyone abandoning him because he's a raging self serving asshole. That abandonment and continuous failure is the driver of his character growth. And for the other characters their establishment of individual identities is a major driver of their character growths.

Spoiler:

As for what he says about Karen/ Ellison misses the point. She doesn't aquiesce because she's a woman; she chooses not to press because she points out that machismo cost Ellison his best friend.

Hamlet3145 · Post by **Hamlet3145** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:03 pm

Just finished episode 9.

My, that Frank Castle is a rather physical fellow.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:30 pm

Daveman wrote:We're only 3? episodes in but I think it's great they found a way to out-do season 1's hallway fight. Does anyone know if that was done in one cut? There were a few moments where it looked like they might have stopped.

I thought the season 1 scene was much better, but I still loved it. It definitely wasn't 1 cut - and season 1's scene wasn't really 1 cut either, I don't think.

Hamlet3145 wrote:Just finished episode 9.

My, that Frank Castle is a rather physical fellow.

LOVED that scene too. Violence! Action! I love it!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:32 pm

Season 1's hallway scene was indeed one cut. This season's stairwell scene was not.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:43 pm

Yep, you're right. They actually used the stunt double in that scene and mixed them up, too. And they put together and filmed it in one day. Amazing.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:55 pm

Agreed.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:41 am

It's 4:30am and I just binged on the last 4 episodes and it was outstanding. Might talk more about it after I've slept

.

Edit - I will say that the Vox article is crap. Vox is an identity-politics site not much better than Gawker. They and the many popular sites like them (BuzzFeed, Cracked, etc) have gotten the notion that Frank Miller is all misogynist and horrible, etc. Bleh.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:06 am

I loved DD season 1, so I was a little surprised that I found myself not really enjoying episodes 1 and 2. But episodes 3 and 4 were fantastic. Definitely on par with some of the best from season 1.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:40 am

cheeba wrote:Edit - I will say that the Vox article is crap. Vox is an identity-politics site not much better than Gawker. They and the many popular sites like them (BuzzFeed, Cracked, etc) have gotten the notion that Frank Miller is all misogynist and horrible, etc. Bleh.

Yay for ad hominem attacks on the source rather than the arguments! Also, you're nuts. Vox isn't the deepest source of coverage, but it's several steps above Gawker. Their greentech coverage, for one, is excellent.

Combustible Lemur: Much better job rebutting the article. I largely agree with all your points.

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:28 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Yay for ad hominem attacks on the source rather than the arguments!

When the source writes articles like, "An Illustrated Guide to Kardashian Relationships" I feel ad hominems are warranted. Vox is better than Gawker, but very much like Fox. Both have offered some good journalism (actually Gawker has too), but they are news organizations intent on promoting a certain political philosophy. Unfortunately it's rather difficult finding a news site that does not, nowadays.

If you want me to break down the article that's no problem. Spoilers! Do not read if you have not finished yet.

Spoiler:

Best choreographed/performed fights in TV or movies - agree.
"the show doesn't convey any feeling of what living in Hell's Kitchen is like" - I think it does that very well with just a 1 minute scene. After Matt leaves the date with Karen he walks a half-block and his senses pick up the sirens and the sounds of violence throughout the city. Matt can barely stand it.
"Foggy's legal speak is often Legally Blonde lite." - WTF does that even mean? That's not even a statement.
"The writing is bad" - That's another non-statement. He says it's filled with one-liners. No it's not. And if the writing were bad that scene with Frank at the cemetery wouldn't be as powerful as it was, or his character wouldn't be as interesting as it was.

Those are minor disagreements, though. Let's get into the writer's personal politics!

"The comic book source material that Daredevil is based on is the work of Frank Miller." - Yep, here we go!
Karen says to the the editor to cut this patriarchal shit. The writer complains "that the violence in this world makes oppressive patriarchy seem safe." - That deserves a rolley eyes. I thought the show didn't convey how it felt to live in Hell's Kitchen, but apparently it does convey it enough to make an editor insisting someone he cares about use police protection seem like oppression.
"But what does the conversation between Karen and Ellison mean for women who can protect themselves?" - It means that people who come under gunfire in their own homes who do not have super powers should probably consider police protection and that such a concept just might not be oppressive patriarchy.
He complains that Elektra gets beat on more than Daredevil. Only someone who wants to talk about identity politics would look at the difference between how much the two get beat on. Shit just look at the early Daredevil vs. Punisher fights and tell me Matt isn't beat on like a drum.
"And in her death scene, she's getting beat up again." - They're both getting beat up. That's why she gets killed - to save Daredevil who's himself about to die.
"Daredevil is kind of an asshole, and no one seems willing to challenge him" - Like Karen dumping him? Or Foggy ending the friendship and their business? Or nurse Claire calling him out on his bullshit basically the entire time she's on screen? Or the Punisher challenging Daredevil's no-kill philosophy? Or the priest (I love his scenes with the priest from season 1, wish there more in season 2) immediately telling Matt to cut the shit?
"Matt Murdock is a jerk this season." - Huh. It's as if he's not perfect and needs to grow as a person, like, by revealing to Karen that he's Daredevil?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:38 pm

Much better. Was that so hard?

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:55 pm

When he posted at 4:30am originally, probably

cheeba · Post by **cheeba** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:52 pm

IceBear wrote:When he posted at 4:30am originally, probably

Exactly!

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:40 am

Watching The Punisher give relationship advice in a diner is surely worth having its own spin-off series!

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:44 pm

Are we still supposed to spoiler season 2 observations?

Spoiler:

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:45 pm

Yes, please!

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:16 pm

Spoiler tags would be appreciated. I'm clunking along at the rate of one episode per night.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:47 pm

Taking my time and spacing out the episodes. I'm up to the introduction of Electric Nachos. Berenthal continues to knock it out of the park. I hope he does get his own series.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:02 pm

I hope Bernthal does, too. Although I award you two points for Electric Nachos, wiping out the demerit.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:36 am

I think we finished episode 7 last night. It ended on one hell of a cliffhanger.

Spoiler:

Unfortunately I have to wait until Sunday before I can watch the next episode...

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:59 am

Zaxxon wrote:I hope Bernthal does, too. Although I award you two points for Electric Nachos, wiping out the demerit.

Ah, I was thinking of the Berenthal Bears. My bad.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:37 am

I think you mean the Bear-stain bears.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:23 am

What impresses me most about his role in Daredevil is how damn good his NON-action scenes are. One of my favorite scenes

Spoiler:

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:53 am

Daredevil season 2 certainly delivered. I'm not sure that the last couple of episodes were as strong as several of the middle ones, but they weren't bad (though I agree completely with Moliere's spoilered comment, above). I'm stoked for the presumptive season 3 and The Defenders. I was disappointed to learn that the Punisher spin-off was just a rumor, and that was even before seeing the character in action. Now all I can say is that if Netflix DOESN'T make a Punisher spin-off, they're 100% crazy.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:09 am

I'm through episode 8 (I think) and I've got a question:

Spoiler:

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:26 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I'm through episode 8 (I think) and I've got a question:

Spoiler:
How did Fisk end up in jail? I thought last season ended with him breaking free and driving away? Am I misremembering or is that just something they haven't explained?

You're misremembering:

Spoiler:

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:35 am

Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I'm through episode 8 (I think) and I've got a question:

Spoiler:
How did Fisk end up in jail? I thought last season ended with him breaking free and driving away? Am I misremembering or is that just something they haven't explained?
You're misremembering:
Spoiler:
The final episode of S1 concluded with DD specifically intercepting Fisk's attempted escape, and delivering a beatdown with the help of his new set of armour. After which, Fisk was left for the cops and arrested.

Thanks!

Torfish · Post by **Torfish** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:38 am

My wife and I have watched the first five episodes of season 2 and wanted to chime in. We both felt season one was a very good first season. But season 2 has knocked it out of the park so far! The show has exceeded our expectations and the actor for the Punisher was a perfect cast selection! Wish they would have made a better cast selection for Jessica in Jessica Jones. It was our main issue with that show.

Daredevil season 2 is on another level and may penetrate my top five shows of all time. Super excited on watching the next episodes.

Torfish · Post by **Torfish** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:47 am

Wanted to add that episode four is masterful. Wow! The stairs fight was great too.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:50 am

What was wrong with Krysten Ritter from Jessica Jones? I thought she did a great job. And reviews for performance seem almost universally great.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:55 am

hepcat wrote:What was wrong with Krysten Ritter from Jessica Jones? I thought she did a great job. And reviews for performance seem almost universally great.

Concur. JJ the show had its issues (namely that the climax came halfway through the season and then it pattered about for a few episodes before a bit of a let-down finale), but Ritter was not one of them IMO.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:39 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
hepcat wrote:What was wrong with Krysten Ritter from Jessica Jones? I thought she did a great job. And reviews for performance seem almost universally great.
Concur. JJ the show had its issues (namely that the climax came halfway through the season and then it pattered about for a few episodes before a bit of a let-down finale), but Ritter was not one of them IMO.

Thirded, except I loved the whole thing from start to finish.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:53 pm

I liked JJ too, but I think she's hard to like just because of her personality. The actress playing JJ did a great job, she's not supposed to be likable.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:08 pm

naednek wrote:I liked JJ too, but I think she's hard to like just because of her personality. The actress playing JJ did a great job, she's not supposed to be likable.

I think there is a fun comparison of JJ being a good person, trying to keep everyone away by acting like an asshole vs. DD being an asshole trying to keep people by claiming righteousness.