SPACE - random thread about space stuff

[Zaxxon]

Surprising no one, SLS will not launch this year.

It used to be a joke that Starship would be orbital before SLS, but at this point I'd put money on it and feel bad for anyone taking the other side of the bet.

[jztemple2]

Surprising no one, SLS will not launch this year.

It used to be a joke that Starship would be orbital before SLS, but at this point I'd put money on it and feel bad for anyone taking the other side of the bet.

From the article, "Each contractor was given a "cost plus" contract that ensured funding but provided little incentive for on-time delivery". That's nonsense. The "plus" is the profit the contractors make and is evaluated on performance among other items.

[jztemple2]

SpaceX adds Bob and Doug multipurpose ships to streamlined recovery fleet

The arrival of Doug, the newest addition to the SpaceX recovery fleet, indicates further consolidation of the company’s rocket recovery operations. Although the launch cadence has slowed as SpaceX prepares the next generation of Starlink satellites, the fleet has been busy working on its next generation of recovery vessels to support what will hopefully be a busy last quarter of 2021.

[Zaxxon]

Surprising no one, SLS will not launch this year.

It used to be a joke that Starship would be orbital before SLS, but at this point I'd put money on it and feel bad for anyone taking the other side of the bet.

From the article, "Each contractor was given a "cost plus" contract that ensured funding but provided little incentive for on-time delivery". That's nonsense. The "plus" is the profit the contractors make and is evaluated on performance among other items.

It may be more complex than Berger's summary, but I don't think it's ridiculous. Or was the 'plus' anticipated to add up to an approximately 100% increase in the total project cost vs initial estimates?

[jztemple2]

Surprising no one, SLS will not launch this year.

It used to be a joke that Starship would be orbital before SLS, but at this point I'd put money on it and feel bad for anyone taking the other side of the bet.

From the article, "Each contractor was given a "cost plus" contract that ensured funding but provided little incentive for on-time delivery". That's nonsense. The "plus" is the profit the contractors make and is evaluated on performance among other items.

It may be more complex than Berger's summary, but I don't think it's ridiculous. Or was the 'plus' anticipated to add up to an approximately 100% increase in the total project cost vs initial estimates?

My comment was directed at the idea that because it is a cost plus series of contracts, that there is "little incentive for on-time delivery". The "plus" part is the award fee which is based upon various parameters including schedule. An approximate 100% increase in cost doesn't mean the contractors make that much more profit, it means that the program is costing more due to various issues, all of which have to be OK'ed and blessed by NASA. No one in their right mind would ever have believed that SLS would proceed on its original schedule without time or cost overruns. Contracts and award fees are constantly being renegotiated as NASA alters requirements. Of course SLS was going to cost more.

But my main point is against that ARS comment, about "little incentive for on-time delivery". I worked for almost 35 years on the Space Shuttle program, most of that in management, on a cost plus contract. If we missed a schedule deadline due to issues that were determined by NASA to not be due to acceptable circumstances, we got dinged on our award fee. That translates to less money for the shareholders and possible less money for the work force. We as lower level management were always reminded that we were rated on how we performed in making sure the company received 100% of its award fee each quarter. Which is why I called that comment about "little incentive for on-time delivery" bogus.

[jztemple2]

And on more uplifting news (pun intended), Starbase Launch Tower enters Mechazilla installation phase

At SpaceX Starbase, Booster 4 and Ship 20 continue processing operations for their test flight from a launch site that is now receiving its Mechazilla hardware.

The Quick Disconnect (QD) arm was installed on the Launch Tower, with the two “chopstick” arms now in the final stages of fabrication ahead of joining the QD arm on the Tower. This will create the combined Mechazilla system to be used for stacking and catching the vehicles.

[Kraken]

Surprising no one, SLS will not launch this year.

It used to be a joke that Starship would be orbital before SLS, but at this point I'd put money on it and feel bad for anyone taking the other side of the bet.

From the article, "Each contractor was given a "cost plus" contract that ensured funding but provided little incentive for on-time delivery". That's nonsense. The "plus" is the profit the contractors make and is evaluated on performance among other items.

It may be more complex than Berger's summary, but I don't think it's ridiculous. Or was the 'plus' anticipated to add up to an approximately 100% increase in the total project cost vs initial estimates?

My comment was directed at the idea that because it is a cost plus series of contracts, that there is "little incentive for on-time delivery". The "plus" part is the award fee which is based upon various parameters including schedule. An approximate 100% increase in cost doesn't mean the contractors make that much more profit, it means that the program is costing more due to various issues, all of which have to be OK'ed and blessed by NASA. No one in their right mind would ever have believed that SLS would proceed on its original schedule without time or cost overruns. Contracts and award fees are constantly being renegotiated as NASA alters requirements. Of course SLS was going to cost more.

But my main point is against that ARS comment, about "little incentive for on-time delivery". I worked for almost 35 years on the Space Shuttle program, most of that in management, on a cost plus contract. If we missed a schedule deadline due to issues that were determined by NASA to not be due to acceptable circumstances, we got dinged on our award fee. That translates to less money for the shareholders and possible less money for the work force. We as lower level management were always reminded that we were rated on how we performed in making sure the company received 100% of its award fee each quarter. Which is why I called that comment about "little incentive for on-time delivery" bogus.

Thanks for that explanation. I had thought that cost overruns were wink-wink, nudge-nudge, because Congress' main intention is to keep the spice flowing to the contractors.

[jztemple2]

NASA tallies Hurricane Ida damage to Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans

NASA personnel at the agency's manufacturing facility in Louisiana are continuing to evaluate damage caused by Hurricane Ida, which made landfall on Sunday (Aug. 29).

The massive storm left hundreds of thousands of people near the Gulf Coast sweltering, without power or tap water and under curfew rules, according to the AP. Current estimates suggest that the electrical grid may need weeks to recover from the hurricane's battering winds. NASA's Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans was right in the storm's path, and staff are still evaluating the damage.

"Damage to the roofs of several buildings have been confirmed and includes loose panels, panels removed during the storm, debris and water damage," NASA officials wrote in an update posted on Tuesday (Aug. 31). "Michoud remains on limited generator power for essential areas. Due to no power in the factory, assessments inside have been limited and by flashlight only."

[jztemple2]

From Space.com, Pilots saw 'red light' warning during Virgin Galactic's historic spaceflight with Richard Branson: report

The mission, called Unity 22, saw Branson and four other passengers fly to space on Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo space plane VSS Unity, which was piloted by the company's veteran pilots Dave Mackay and Mike Masucci. After a carrier aircraft called WhiteKnightTwo lifted VSS Unity to an altitude of 50,000 feet (15,000 meters), the space plane separated from its mothership and ignited its rocket engines, sending the craft soaring up to 53 miles (86 km) above Earth's surface, where the crew experienced about four minutes of weightlessness before heading back to Earth via an unpowered glide flight.

Nearly one minute into VSS Unity's powered flight, a yellow warning light appeared on the space plane's console indicating that the craft was veering off course "The light was a warning to the pilots that their flight path was too shallow and the nose of the ship was insufficiently vertical," The New Yorker report by writer Nicholas Schmidle states. "If they didn't fix it, they risked a perilous emergency landing in the desert on their descent."

Just a few seconds before the minute-long engine burn was complete, another warning light appeared on the console — this time a red light indicating a so-called "entry glide cone warning." The term refers to the cone-shaped trajectory of VSS Unity during its glide flight back down to Earth, and the red warning light "should scare the crap out of you," Masucci once said during a Virgin Galactic pilots' meeting in 2015, according to The New Yorker.

During one test flight in July 2018, Mackay and Masucci lost control of the space plane as they flew through Earth's mesosphere for the first time, according to the New Yorker. They regained control and landed safely, but "a post-flight inspection exposed manufacturing defects that required months of repairs," the magazine's Nicholas Schmidle reported.

Another well-respected Virgin Galactic pilot who voiced concerns over the company's safety practices has also recently left the company, but he was fired over Zoom, The New Yorker reported. Virgin Galactic's lead test pilot and flight-test director Mark Stucky criticized Virgin Galactic's management in a book published in May 2021 by Nicholas Schmidle (who also wrote The New Yorker's report). After the book was published, Stucky "was stripped of his flight duties and excluded from key planning meetings" pertaining to the July 11 mission, and he was fired eight days after the flight, according to the New Yorker.

[Hrothgar]

I'm beginning to suspect that these billionaires space adventurers might also have large egos.

[jztemple2]

I'm beginning to suspect that these billionaires space adventurers might also have large egos.

I became very suspicious of the Virgin Galactic program after they lost their first vehicle when apparently the co-pilot pulled the level to switch to "butterfly" mode when it wasn't at all safe to do so. I was astonished that there wasn't some lockout or prerequisite check to prevent that from happening. At least Blue Origin and SpaceX have automated flight systems, as I understand it. It's one thing to leave stuff up to the pilots on an experimental flight, but if you are carrying paying passengers you really need to step up to a new level of automation.

[Kraken]

You decide: Take a small chance of killing the boss, or harsh his buzz for sure.

[Zaxxon]

That didn't take long...

[jztemple2]

Hey, don't let that get you down: Virgin Galactic announces crew for next launch to suborbital space

We now know who will be flying to suborbital space on Virgin Galactic's next mission.

That mission, a revenue-generating test flight of Virgin Galactic's VSS Unity space plane called Unity 23, is scheduled to launch in late September or early October. Virgin Galactic had previously announced that Unity 23 will fly members of the Italian Air Force, and on Thursday (Sept. 2) the company told us who those folks are and what they'll be doing.

Unity 23 will carry Italian Air Force Col. Walter Villadei and Lt. Col. Angelo Landolfi, as well as aerospace engineer Pantaleone Carlucci, a scientist with the Italian National Research Council, Virgin Galactic representatives said. Beth Moses, the company's chief astronaut instructor, will fly in the cabin with the Italian trio. Michael Masucci and C.J. Sturckow will pilot Unity, and Nicola Pecile and Kelly Latimer will fly VMS Eve, the space plane's carrier aircraft.

Unity 23 will be the fifth space mission for VSS Unity and its 23rd flight overall (hence the name). The vehicle's most recent trip to the final frontier occurred on July 11, when Unity lofted Virgin Group founder Richard Branson and three Virgin Galactic employees in its cabin, as well as two pilots in the cockpit. That mission, called Unity 22, was the company's first fully crewed spaceflight.

VSS Unity flew outside its designated airspace for one minute and 41 seconds during that July 11 test flight, an incident that spurred an investigation overseen by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Nicholas Schmidle reported in The New Yorker yesterday (Sept. 1). That investigation is ongoing, and Unity won't fly again until it wraps up to the FAA's satisfaction, Schmidle added in a tweet today.

"As we have previously stated, we are working in partnership with the FAA to address the short time that the spaceship dropped below its permitted altitude during the Unity 22 flight. We take this seriously and are currently addressing the causes of the issue and determining how to prevent this from occurring on future missions," a Virgin Galactic spokesperson told Space.com via email.

"Although the flight's ultimate trajectory deviated from our initial plan, it was a controlled and intentional flight path that allowed Unity 22 to successfully reach space and land safely at our Spaceport in New Mexico," the spokesperson added. "At no time were passengers and crew put in any danger as a result of this change in trajectory, and at no time did the ship travel above any population centers or cause a hazard to the public. FAA representatives were present in our control room during the flight and in post-flight debriefs. We have been working closely with the FAA to support a thorough review and timely resolution of this issue."

So maybe the grounding won't be very long.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, hopefully they can clear it up quickly (along with Starship's environmental review update).

[Holman]

You decide: Take a small chance of killing the boss, or harsh his buzz for sure.

The former is better for everyone's career regardless of the outcome.

[Zaxxon]

Inspiration4 mission thinks it's going to launch this month. Fingers crossed.

[jztemple2]

Inspiration4 mission thinks it's going to launch this month. Fingers crossed.

As the article says, they are targeting the 15th of this month and will announce the launch time window about three days before. I'm thinking we can expect large crowds here in North Brevard, so it will be a good day to say home and watch the launch on TV.

[Zaxxon]

The first two episodes of the Netflix Inspiration4 documentary are now out.

It very much has elements of propaganda in it as one would expect, but it's well-made. Jason Hehir, the guy who helmed The Last Dance, also is running the show for this one.

[Hrothgar]

Is it really propaganda if it's a private company choosing to promote another private company with the government only tangentially involved?

[Kraken]

More like marketing/PR, which I suppose is just private propaganda.

[Zaxxon]

More like marketing/PR, which I suppose is just private propaganda.

Yeah, this. I'm not intending to say there's anything wrong with it, just that it's very much a positive take on the mission, and its relevance relative to those of BO/Virgin this summer.

Though they do spend a considerable amount of time in ep 2 discussing risk.

[Kraken]

More like marketing/PR, which I suppose is just private propaganda.

Yeah, this. I'm not intending to say there's anything wrong with it, just that it's very much a positive take on the mission, and its relevance relative to those of BO/Virgin this summer.

Though they do spend a considerable amount of time in ep 2 discussing risk.

Watched part 1 and didn't like it until they got to Hayley's story, which I found genuinely inspirational. Too much puffery and not much real info up to that point. Wife (who doesn't follow the ins and outs of "Space Race 2.0") was interested enough to want to see part 2 tomorrow night.

(edit) The only factino I learned tonight is that this flight will go to a higher orbit than ISS.

[Daehawk]

What a freaky place in space. Its as if someone cleared an entire area and put a few galaxies there by themselves. Man any civilization that forms and prospers in that one galaxy that is very isolated is almost doomed as once they explore their galaxy they'll never be able to reach another one as they are SO far apart and few.

Then again my someone in that galaxy is the one who made that place to be alone.

[Isgrimnur]

[Zaxxon]

The James Webb telescope has a bona fide launch date.

[Kraken]

The James Webb telescope has a bona fide launch date.

After all the time and money that's gone into this, let's put it in the Air & Space Museum and save ourselves the anxiety of launching.

[The Meal]

[Holman]

What a freaky place in space. Its as if someone cleared an entire area and put a few galaxies there by themselves. Man any civilization that forms and prospers in that one galaxy that is very isolated is almost doomed as once they explore their galaxy they'll never be able to reach another one as they are SO far apart and few.

On the other hand, if any technology is available that allows travel between galaxies (or even between far stars), distance is almost by definition irrelevant.

[jztemple2]

Inspiration4 mission thinks it's going to launch this month. Fingers crossed.

As the article says, they are targeting the 15th of this month and will announce the launch time window about three days before. I'm thinking we can expect large crowds here in North Brevard, so it will be a good day to say home and watch the launch on TV.

Latest:

which is scheduled to launch atop a Falcon 9 rocket from Kennedy Space Center's Pad 39A on Tuesday (Sept. 14) at 8 p.m. EDT (midnight on Sept. 15 GMT).

[Zaxxon]

To expand on that...

[Daehawk]

[Daehawk]

Reposting this from the movie trailers thread in case someone from here never goes there.

[Kraken]

Reposting this from the movie trailers thread in case someone from here never goes there.

Thanks. I stopped reading that thread because 3/4 of the movies are either in theaters or streaming on services I don't have.

[jztemple2]

A couple of items. First, Launch of SpaceX's private Inspiration4 mission slips by 24 hours. The afternoon thunderstorms have been pretty beastly the past couple of days.

The three-day mission will now launch from the NASA Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Florida no earlier than 8 p.m. EDT Wednesday, Sept. 15 (1200 GMT Thursday, Sept. 16) due to a combination of weather conditions and technical requirements, Inspiration4 said Friday (Sept. 10) in a mission update.

Second, NASA's Gateway moon-orbiting space station explained in pictures

NASA's next crewed space station will be near the moon. The planned lunar Gateway space station will house crews for between one and three months so they can perform a series of ambitious jobs: to conduct science experiments further away from Earth for long periods of time; to support missions on the surface; and perhaps to even do far-out engineering work such as telerobotics.

This gallery details some of the main history and components of Gateway, as well as what it may be used for in the future. For now, NASA plans to bring astronauts to Gateway sometime in the 2020s, possibly in support of the Artemis moon-landing program. Artemis was targeting a 2024 moon landing, although an August 2021 report from the Office of the Inspector General said this target is "not feasible" due to spacesuit development delays. More timeline changes may therefore be in store.

[Kraken]

I was amused that the Gateway art didn't include a painting of the human landing system -- i.e., Starship (or Moonship as only I call it) -- which will dwarf Gateway itself and even call its very necessity into question. I realize Moonship isn't a slam-dunk until Bezos loses his appeal, so whoever put that artwork together was being circumspect...but omitting any HLS entirely was glaring, since that's Gateway's primary reason for being.

[Unagi]

They didn't highlight it in the art, but didn't the first few picture show some kind of lunar excursion module attached? (which still isn't highlighting it, I understand).... really, I'm just checking my read of things: that is the Moonship you are speaking of, that's got the landing legs, etc?

[Kraken]

That does look like a generic LEM-type lander, which describes Blue Moon. I suppose portraying either Blue Moon specifically or Starship would be a political statement at this point.

[Zaxxon]

T-2 days until Inspiration4. The Atlantic has a short piece on the project.

[The Meal]

My employer got a bit of a part of a blurb on CBS's morning show recently.