Article wrote:in response to an announcement that the district wouldn’t be able to pay teachers who deferred part of their salaries to get checks during the summer months...
...Union president Ivy Bailey said that an inability by Rhodes to guarantee those teachers would receive paychecks during the summer for work they would have already performed was the breaking point.
Entirely unacceptable.
It's a shame that whatever is causing Detroit to implode is having such a negative impact on the kids - I mean, assuming the decision to basically steal money from teachers wasn't done unknowingly.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
I know its an old piece of the thread but the idea of standardized testing being a good option because it is the only one in place is ridiculous. No, I do not want to be evaluated using a broken system thank you very little. The students have little to no investment in the tests so getting them to do their best requires I "sell" the test to them and make them believe it is worth their time. Sadly, I don't believe it myself so would rather spend that time teaching them math. I'll take my chances with administrators who come in and watch me teach, know the population I work with each day, and get to see our interactions regularly over a test built with all the (unintentional) prejudices and centrism of the writers.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
Nearly all Detroit public schools are closed again as mass teacher sick-outs over pay roll into a second day. Meanwhile, a Michigan panel holds a hearing on bills that would bail out and overhaul Detroit’s ailing school district, which will run out of money at the end of June. The hearing comes as GOP leaders lash out at teachers for the sickouts, which gave nearly 45,000 schoolchildren another unscheduled day off. The educators stopped short of calling it a strike, instead saying they called the massive sick-out in response to an announcement that the district wouldn’t be able to pay teachers who deferred part of their salaries to get checks during the summer months.
...
The Detroit Federation of Teachers has not supported sick-outs held earlier this year by some of its members, but union leadership is growing more frustrated with the district’s poor finances. The sick-outs on Monday and Tuesday closed 94 of the district’s 97 schools, eclipsing a January sick-out in which classes were canceled at 88 schools. The union was told over the weekend by state-appointed transition manager Steven Rhodes that there would be no money after June 30 to pay teachers who have chosen to have their paychecks spread out over the entire year. Union president Ivy Bailey said that an inability by Rhodes to guarantee those teachers would receive paychecks during the summer for work they would have already performed was the breaking point.
There's a serious problem going on here and the teachers are pawns, so I don't blame them.
I don't know what the answer will be. Detroit, as a district, is (or was when last I checked) the 3rd highest paid district per pupil in Wayne County and yet their teachers are among the worst paid and their facilities are among the worst maintained.
They have to clean up corruption, renegotiate old pensions, and redraw the district, and concentrate students into using fewer facilities.
/looks at per pupil estimates again.
While the state gives Detroit what appears to be the lesser amounts (but by no means the least of urban or rural districts)
Here we go. As example, Plymouth Canton is considered a top rated school system and is funded with $8,789 per student per year, whereas DPS is funded with $12,931 per student per year and even though DPS teacher make shit, $6,403 of that per pupil funding makes it to instruction whereas in Plymouth Canton only $5,110 makes it to instruction.
I dipped a toe, very gently, into my local school district. I had the opportunity to go bigger, but I opted out.
There is a ton of research that shows pretty conclusively that dragging adolescents (teens, basically) into school at 7:30 AM is bad for them in a variety of ways, including increases in physical and mental illness. The average teen is wired to fall asleep late and wake up late. Not all of them, but the majority. It's just how human adolescents work. No amount of "good parenting" can change it, and just because older generations slogged through it doesn't mean it's not true.
Sooo, when I saw that my district was having meetings on the topic, with the full support of the Board of Education, I signed up. We started meeting last October and are now weeks away from handing the board a proposed plan (two, actually), to shift around the school start times so grades 7-12 would start around 9 AM rather than 7:30 as they currently do. It will cause some hassles, notably for student athletes, but there is absolutely no doubt from the committee or the board that it's the right thing to do.
Anyway, this committee had a little trouble finding its feet and was lacking leadership, so being an impatient loudmouth, I increasingly stepped forward to try to keep things focused. Naturally, I found myself in charge within the first couple of months, and accepted the role of "facilitator" (my term for it) to try to shepherd the project to conclusion. Some of the board members liked the cut of my jib, so to speak, and suggested that I run for one of the open Board seats this month. Hell no! As thankless, stressful volunteer jobs go, this ranks right up there. I thought about it for maybe two minutes, talked to my dad (a former school superintendent in a nearby, fairly similar district), and looked at the hassles involved just with running this relatively minor committee. That was all it took to know it wasn't a good fit for me. I'm looking forward to putting a nice bow on our proposal and handing it off to be BoE to vote on and implement.
Odin wrote:I dipped a toe, very gently, into my local school district. I had the opportunity to go bigger, but I opted out.
There is a ton of research that shows pretty conclusively that dragging adolescents (teens, basically) into school at 7:30 AM is bad for them in a variety of ways, including increases in physical and mental illness. The average teen is wired to fall asleep late and wake up late. Not all of them, but the majority. It's just how human adolescents work. No amount of "good parenting" can change it, and just because older generations slogged through it doesn't mean it's not true.
Sooo, when I saw that my district was having meetings on the topic, with the full support of the Board of Education, I signed up. We started meeting last October and are now weeks away from handing the board a proposed plan (two, actually), to shift around the school start times so grades 7-12 would start around 9 AM rather than 7:30 as they currently do. It will cause some hassles, notably for student athletes, but there is absolutely no doubt from the committee or the board that it's the right thing to do.
Anyway, this committee had a little trouble finding its feet and was lacking leadership, so being an impatient loudmouth, I increasingly stepped forward to try to keep things focused. Naturally, I found myself in charge within the first couple of months, and accepted the role of "facilitator" (my term for it) to try to shepherd the project to conclusion. Some of the board members liked the cut of my jib, so to speak, and suggested that I run for one of the open Board seats this month. Hell no! As thankless, stressful volunteer jobs go, this ranks right up there. I thought about it for maybe two minutes, talked to my dad (a former school superintendent in a nearby, fairly similar district), and looked at the hassles involved just with running this relatively minor committee. That was all it took to know it wasn't a good fit for me. I'm looking forward to putting a nice bow on our proposal and handing it off to be BoE to vote on and implement.
So my child in 7th grade(next year) would get on the bus after my younger two children with this plan? Or would my younger kids, who already go to school later than the 7-12 grades, would be pushed back as well?
I am actually interested in the subject, since I have three little kids, not trying to be a jerk or anything.
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
I can attest to the fact that I was never really full awake until around 9:00am anyway - I tended to doze through my first class. It's absurd to think science agrees with what my parents always called laziness.
Life in our house now starts at 5:30am when I roll my lazy butt outta bed and start the day. The kids are usually up around 5:45.
Black Lives Matter
2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
Paingod wrote:I can attest to the fact that I was never really full awake until around 9:00am anyway - I tended to doze through my first class. It's absurd to think science agrees with what my parents always called laziness.
heh. I was always an early riser, so getting up at 6 am was never an issue for me. My one daughter get's out of bed like a Disney Princess, she bounces out of bed singing and smiling. My other daughter get's out of bed like an angry bear, and is just as cranky as well.
So the later time is not a bad thing, I guess, but most jobs require an early time so does forcing kids to get up early and go to school help them for the future work life? But since college is not really an early morning thing, any kid going to a college after High School would regress anyway. <shrug>
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
When my daughter went to a local Boston Public School for K1 (pre-K - it's essentially kindergarten for 4-year-olds) the hours were 9 - 3:30. Unfortunately the year after she left they changed the hours to 7:30 - 2, apparently to save on busing costs (presumably so the relevant buses can be used for multiple schools). So now that my son is approaching 4 and is going to do K1 at the same school, we'll need to be out the door by 7:10ish.
El Guapo wrote:When my daughter went to a local Boston Public School for K1 (pre-K - it's essentially kindergarten for 4-year-olds) the hours were 9 - 3:30. Unfortunately the year after she left they changed the hours to 7:30 - 2, apparently to save on busing costs (presumably so the relevant buses can be used for multiple schools). So now that my son is approaching 4 and is going to do K1 at the same school, we'll need to be out the door by 7:10ish.
Busing dictated schooling when I went to school.
pick up high school
pick up Middle school
pick up elementary school
drop off morning K classes at home
pick up afternoon K classes
Drop off high school
Drop off Middle school
Drop off elementary school
Pretty much kept bus drivers working from 05:30 to 17:30 straight.
HS started at 07:15 and elementary school let out at 16:30
RMC wrote:So my child in 7th grade(next year) would get on the bus after my younger two children with this plan? Or would my younger kids, who already go to school later than the 7-12 grades, would be pushed back as well?
I am actually interested in the subject, since I have three little kids, not trying to be a jerk or anything.
Both of the plans we're currently proposing would have 7-12 starting at around 9 AM. In one scenario, all elementaries would start around 8 AM, in the other there would be more staggered start times for elementary and some middle schools, but in all cases the HS would start around 9.
Preparing for jobs isn't really an issue, because a) most American jobs statistically start much later than 7:30 - usually more like 8:30 or 9:00. So forcing kids into school in the wee hours on the off-chance that they might end up working first shift at a bakery doesn't make sense. Also b) there's no evidence that being forced to get up early in high school actually prepares anyone to do anything, and ample evidence that the body just doesn't really work that way. You might intellectually adapt to an early or an overnight shift in some ways to compensate, but your body will never actually adjust. Also c) the physiological factors that cause typical teens to sleep and rise late begin to drop off around 18 and are largely gone by 21, so we're actually forcing teens to work against their biology in the hopes that it will prepare them for work at an age when their biology will no longer be a significant factor for them.
As for kids being home when the parents have left for work, that will be true in some instances. However, the schoolday is shorter than nearly any full-time job a parent would work, so the kids are going to be home alone regardless. They currently get home around 3 PM, while the parents won't get home typically until 4:30 or 5:00. Oh yeah, and guess when the highest rates of teen crime and sexual contact are? Between 3 and 5 PM. It seems a lot less likely to me that teens would use that extra 90-minutes in the morning to go out and roam the streets, pillaging and screwing.
El Guapo wrote:When my daughter went to a local Boston Public School for K1 (pre-K - it's essentially kindergarten for 4-year-olds) the hours were 9 - 3:30. Unfortunately the year after she left they changed the hours to 7:30 - 2, apparently to save on busing costs (presumably so the relevant buses can be used for multiple schools). So now that my son is approaching 4 and is going to do K1 at the same school, we'll need to be out the door by 7:10ish.
Which is unfortunate.
My son's bus is scheduled to arrive at 6:42 am. It usually shows up anywhere from 6:50-7:05, but we still have to be ready by official bus time for those rare instances that it's on time. Unfortunate doesn't begin to cover it.
My HS schedule was up at 6, bus at 7, school at 8. I was a magnet kid being bused into the city, but the bus would have been the same with a later school start time if I stayed in my district. School ended at 4, was usually home by 4:45.
Of course, now, I'm up at 6:30 to leave for work at 7:30 to get there by 8:30, if I'm lucky, and usually home by 5:30. Heck, I'd trade the drive for a bus if there were one available.
Isgrimnur wrote:My HS schedule was up at 6, bus at 7, school at 8. I was a magnet kid being bused into the city, but the bus would have been the same with a later school start time if I stayed in my district. School ended at 4, was usually home by 4:45.
Of course, now, I'm up at 6:30 to leave for work at 7:30 to get there by 8:30, if I'm lucky, and usually home by 5:30. Heck, I'd trade the drive for a bus if there were one available.
HS was 7:15 to 14:15. Bus pick up was at 06:15, so I was up at 05:30.
I think middle school was 8:30 and elementary was 9:45 but it's hard to remember that many years back, now.
An eight-month court battle – between Detroit's struggling school district and teachers accused of inciting illegal strikes – ended Friday with a court decision in the teachers' favor.
Two teachers won the months-long case against the school district because their protests were essentially political rather than work-related, Ann Zaniewski reported for the Detroit Free Press. The court decided that if teachers see politics as the cause of work-related problems, then complaints about those work conditions – even taking the form of intentional sick-outs – receive First Amendment protection.
...
Detroit Public Schools accused Steve Conn and Nicole Conaway of leading teacher strikes – illegal under Michigan law – to protest the poor conditions in schools. But the court ruled in the teachers' favor, saying the sickouts were politically motivated, and therefore fair game for protest, because the teachers objected to the state's emergency takeover plans.
...
The school district and the state, which backed it both politically and with court costs, said sick-outs violated the Michigan Public Employment Relations Act, but the judge said this interpretation of the law "goes far beyond the scope" of the law and "would run afoul of First Amendment protections."
About exactly a year ago we brought you the story of Shawn Sheehan, Oklahoma's 2016 Teacher of the Year.
...
Now he says he just can't make ends meet anymore teaching in Norman, Okla.
In Monday’s damp predawn darkness, teachers gathered in front of Muskogee High. But instead of heading to their classrooms, they piled on to a bus painted with the school’s mascot — the Roughers — and headed 150 miles west to Oklahoma City.
The 30 or so teachers joined thousands more at the state Capitol, part of a statewide walkout that has shuttered schools across the state. Teachers in Muskogee, where the gym roof is so leaky that volleyball games get “rained out,” arrived to urge lawmakers to restore education funding. Many of them came bearing a threat: Increase education funding, or teachers will not return to work.
...
At the state Capitol, thousands of people converged, chanting and carrying signs with slogans including: “Don’t make me use my TEACHER voice,” and “STRAIGHT OUTTA SUPPLIES.”
They were joined by students who also feel the impact of dwindling financial support for education. Many schools do not have enough textbooks for students. The tomes are often outdated, tattered and missing pages.
...
The Oklahoma teacher walkout is part of a wave of protests from educators furious over stagnant wages and cuts to education funding. Teachers in West Virginia won a 5 percent raise after a nine-day strike. They emboldened educators across the country. Several schools in Kentucky were forced to close Friday as teachers left classrooms to head to the statehouse to protest school pension changes. Arizona teachers, who have been protesting at the state Capitol, threatened to strike, demanding a 20 percent raise and restoration of funding cuts.
The cuts in Oklahoma also had dire consequences for schools. Districts have not been able to maintain buildings, so students shiver through the winter in classrooms with faulty heating and become accustomed to a rotating cast of teachers. Many school districts have moved to four-day school weeks because they cannot afford to keep the lights on for five days.
Adjusted for inflation, the amount the state spends per student has fallen nearly 30 percent over the past decade, according to the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein "I don't stand by anything." - Trump “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867 “It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
Without going too far down the political rabbit hole...you can't provide adequate services with inadequate tax collections. That's simple arithmetic. The federal government can cheat with deficits, but states don't have that luxury. So it's really a reflection of how much they value public education.
Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:35 pm
Without going too far down the political rabbit hole...you can't provide adequate services with inadequate tax collections. That's simple arithmetic. The federal government can cheat with deficits, but states don't have that luxury. So it's really a reflection of how much they value public education.
In most districts, a teacher with a doctorate degree and 30 years' experience will never make more than $50,000 a year.
That's insane. The median salary in my crappy town is like 87,000. If you had 30 years and a doctorate I'm sure you are over 100K.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.
A billboard in Oklahoma City reads: "Your future is in a Forth Worth classroom." Right under that in highlighted print is "teacher starting salary is $52,000."
Fort Worth in north Texas is just about three hours drive from the billboard -- but the promise of a higher salary just might entice some teachers who have been fighting for higher pay in Oklahoma to hit the road.
Oklahoma teachers ended their nine-day walkout last month, but they pledged to continue to fight for more school funding and higher pay, according to the state's largest teachers' union. That's what caught the attention of Fort Worth school system officials.
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The district invested in 10 billboards that can be seen along highways in Oklahoma City, Norman, Tulsa and Stillwater. The monthlong campaign started on Monday and is aimed to recruit both current teachers and students soon-to-earn education degrees.
Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:35 pm
Without going too far down the political rabbit hole...you can't provide adequate services with inadequate tax collections. That's simple arithmetic. The federal government can cheat with deficits, but states don't have that luxury. So it's really a reflection of how much they value public education.
Maybe we need to move towards advertising-supported education? It works for Facebook, google, etc. and just about everyone is willing to give up their privacy for FREE!
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
In the early 1990s, when today’s veteran educators were starting out, public-school teachers and support staff pulled in above-average paychecks in 26 of the 42 states for which the Labor Department had comparable data.
By 2017, their earnings topped the average in just one state, Rhode Island. Over that time, public-school teacher and staff earnings fell relative to the average worker in all 42 of those states.
The biggest relative drop came in Wisconsin. In the early nineties, Wisconsin public-school teachers and staff earned about 1.2 times average workers' pay. In recent years, that number has fallen to about nine tenths of the statewide average. The smallest drops came in Alabama, West Virginia and Mississippi. In those states, teacher pay was already below average.
The only other comparable industries in terms of employment and salaries to see similar pay slides include delivery drivers, printers, electronics retailers and warehouse workers -- industries which were reshaped by the rise of the internet.
In the early 1990s, when today’s veteran educators were starting out, public-school teachers and support staff pulled in above-average paychecks in 26 of the 42 states for which the Labor Department had comparable data.
By 2017, their earnings topped the average in just one state, Rhode Island. Over that time, public-school teacher and staff earnings fell relative to the average worker in all 42 of those states.
The biggest relative drop came in Wisconsin. In the early nineties, Wisconsin public-school teachers and staff earned about 1.2 times average workers' pay. In recent years, that number has fallen to about nine tenths of the statewide average. The smallest drops came in Alabama, West Virginia and Mississippi. In those states, teacher pay was already below average.
The only other comparable industries in terms of employment and salaries to see similar pay slides include delivery drivers, printers, electronics retailers and warehouse workers -- industries which were reshaped by the rise of the internet.
My wife was a teacher for about 5 years. While her base pay was lower than what I would expect, she made a ton in 'extra's' and the benefits that we had when she worked as a teacher were outstanding. We paid next to nothing in premiums, and our copay was Zero, and our deductible for the whole family was 200 bucks. She makes more now, but when you factor in what I pay for in benefits, and the fact that she does not get any extra's and has to work year round, we make much less.
But teaching is difficult, I just want to point out that these types of articles rarely take into account the total amount that they make, and usually just the base pay that they recieve. <shrug>
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
But teaching is difficult, I just want to point out that these types of articles rarely take into account the total amount that they make, and usually just the base pay that they recieve. <shrug>
Part of the problem is that benefits are really variable. Pay is a bit better than average in our district, but the medical coverage frankly sucks. My friends wife is a teacher, and I've heard a lot of lamenting about how much they have to pay for everything.
But teaching is difficult, I just want to point out that these types of articles rarely take into account the total amount that they make, and usually just the base pay that they recieve. <shrug>
Part of the problem is that benefits are really variable. Pay is a bit better than average in our district, but the medical coverage frankly sucks. My friends wife is a teacher, and I've heard a lot of lamenting about how much they have to pay for everything.
My brother in law and sister are teachers as well, and the benefits that they had were a little worse than my wifes, but still millions of times better than what I get working for a fairly large hospital system. But yes, you are correct, they are variable. But the 'Extra's my wife got were easy for her to do, and fairly substatial, but again very variable.
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
