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RIP David Bowie

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Jeff V
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Jeff V »

hepcat wrote:Insane Clown Posse are great musicians using that line of reasoning. :P
Formed: 1989. Get back to me in a few more decades on that one.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by hepcat »

Jeff V wrote: Anyone who can stay relevant in the business for decades is worthy mention.
1989-2015. 2 and a half decades.

My point is that longevity and popularity with a fan base does not automatically equal notable artist.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Jeff V »

hepcat wrote:
Jeff V wrote: Anyone who can stay relevant in the business for decades is worthy mention.
1989-2015. 2 and a half decades.

My point is that longevity and popularity with a fan base does not automatically equal notable artist.
Are they annually among the top-grossing concert tours? If so, I would say they do. If not...methinks you are missing something in the definition of "notable."
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Jeff V wrote:methinks you are missing something in the definition of "notable."
Not if you add "artist" back into my quote. :wink:

And I believe Insane Clown Posse makes...wait for it...an insane amount of money on their tours.

...sadly. :(

p.s. I think I've derailed this thread enough. Let's take it somewhere else if we want to argue the merits of another artist any further.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by ImLawBoy »

Throw Robert Plant into the mix of artists who remain relevant making new and interesting music after decades, and refusing to be just a nostalgia act.

Buffet may be making new music, but it's hardly interesting except to the most devoted Parrotheads, I'd guess. In a way, he's kind of a hybrid - a popular nostalgia act who happens to put out new records.

I was never a huge Bowie fan, but I always kind of liked his Tin Machine band from the late '80s. I think most Bowie fans like to forget about that era, but I kind of dug it. I had the first release on cassette!
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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I want to disagree with the Robert Plant inclusion because I'm not a Led Zeppelin fan, but having heard some of the stuff he's done over the last decade or so, I can't. Like Rod Stewart, he's an older musician who has decided to explore the stuff that has influenced them through musical endeavors that really are unlike anything they've done in the past. I am floored by how good his work has been.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by hitbyambulance »

hepcat wrote:
hitbyambulance wrote:
(and i am super interested in hearing what people thought of Lou Reed + Metallica's Lulu)
If you liked it, you probably don't want to hear my thoughts on it. :wink:
'liked' is ... too strong a word, but the final track ("Junior Dad") is quite powerful, and one of my favorite songs released in 2011. i tend to give the whole album a pass just for that.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Jeff V wrote:Anyone who can stay relevant in the business for decades is worthy mention.
He's worthy of mention in a list of people who have continued to make money over the years. Sustained tour revenue does not equal sustained artistic growth. In fact, artistic growth can often be detrimental to tour revenue.
Jeff V wrote:The career fail rate in the music industry is quite high; whether I like a particular artist's music or not makes it no less notable of an accomplishment.
Sustained success in the industry is a laudable accomplishment but again, it's not the same as "never stop[ing] challenging us, and growing, musically," as AjD described it.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by AjD »

Agree with most of these mentions... although in my post above, I was trying to point out Bowie's amazing ongoing productivity and relevance, as compared to almost all of the other big rock stars who came out of that shockingly creative musical era we call "the sixties".

I wasn't referencing country artists. Or (still excellent and productive) talents like David Byrne or Elvis Costello -- who I think of as coming from a different generation (the mid/late '70s, that birthed punk, new wave, disco, etc). Those guys are mostly younger, and were often influenced by that earlier '60s generation (including by Bowie), .

So, big rock stars. Who came out of the '60s. Bowie's contemporaries. There are previous few of those who have continued to make new music, without slipping into nostalgia or losing the plot.

I think you could add people like Paul Simon, Robert Plant and Van Morrison to the short list. But none of them can match the prolific amount of consistent work Bowie continued to release, all the way up until just last week. For example, Paul Simon released just two albums of new material in the past decade and a half. Bowie managed twice that amount, and that was while fighting liver cancer, recovering from six heart attacks and dipping his feet in many other creative acts.

Even someone as remarkably creative as Peter Gabriel hasn't released an album of new material in nearly 15 years.

Again, not saying there's anything wrong with this. These are older men, with kids and often grandchildren now. Go ahead and retire. You owe us nothing.

But to me, it's sad... and worth noting. The end of an era. It's like coming to the bottom of that cherished bottle of top-shelf liquor, the one you bought overseas on your honeymoon and have been nursing slowly for years. Once it's gone, it's gone for good. And the absolutely horrendous state of current pop music only makes it sting more. What a loss.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Jeff V »

What do you define as growth? Trying something new for the fuck of it? That (IMO) doesn't work very well for the likes of Elvis Costello and didn't always work for Bowie either. I would argue there is equal virtue in perfecting one's core competency.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by LawBeefaroni »

AjD wrote:Once it's gone, it's gone for good. And the absolutely horrendous state of current pop music only makes it sting more. What a loss.
I guess I'm one of those people who can keep going back to the same well. I love discovering new music, but I'm just as happy firing up something from my existing catalog. The sting is muted for me.

The wife similarly lamented the current state of music. "She [daughter] will never grow up listening to someone like Bowie." Well, except maybe Bowie. His music still exists. Yeah, she won't grow up seeing him in the news or in new films but she can listen to him all she wants.

What might have been if he lived another year or another decade? Who knows. But we do know what we got, and we got a lot.

I'm not saying his death shouldn't be sad thing for a lot of people. Just trying to figure out where I'm at.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by hitbyambulance »

Bowie was releasing a new album every few years starting in the '80s up through Reality in 2003 (and in fact, Heathen came out just the previous year) until that first heart attack in 2004, so it really did feel weird when nothing came out in 2005 or 2006. i had begun to give up on hope in the late '00s, as it seemed an endless string of reissues and compilations were being released instead... but was really hoping Reality wouldn't be the last one.


(in the '70s, it was an album of new material every* year!)
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Jeff V wrote:What do you define as growth? Trying something new for the fuck of it? That (IMO) doesn't work very well for the likes of Elvis Costello and didn't always work for Bowie either. I would argue there is equal virtue in perfecting one's core competency.
In many, many other opinions, it worked great for Costello.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Did someone say Sting?
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by hepcat »

The willingness to take a chance and venture outside your comfort zone is what distinguishes a great artist from a mediocre one (imo). It may not always work, but it's certainly better than sticking to the same formula your entire career.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by silverjon »

LawBeefaroni wrote:The wife similarly lamented the current state of music. "She [daughter] will never grow up listening to someone like Bowie." Well, except maybe Bowie. His music still exists. Yeah, she won't grow up seeing him in the news or in new films but she can listen to him all she wants.
She can grow up listening to Patrick Wolf.
wot?

To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?

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Re: RIP David Bowie

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AjD wrote:I think you could add people like Paul Simon, Robert Plant and Van Morrison to the short list. But none of them can match the prolific amount of consistent work Bowie continued to release, all the way up until just last week. For example, Paul Simon released just two albums of new material in the past decade and a half. Bowie managed twice that amount, and that was while fighting liver cancer, recovering from six heart attacks and dipping his feet in many other creative acts.
I'm not meaning to denigrate Bowie at all here, but according to their allmusic.com discographies, Bowie had released four albums of new music (plus three live albums) since 2000, while Plant has released five albums of new music since 2000. Granted, he hasn't the health issues (that we're aware of, anyway), but he's producing new, interesting, and high quality music at a nice clip. He also tours a lot, I believe, and it's to support his new projects.
Jeff V wrote:What do you define as growth? Trying something new for the fuck of it? That (IMO) doesn't work very well for the likes of Elvis Costello and didn't always work for Bowie either. I would argue there is equal virtue in perfecting one's core competency.
Regardless of your feelings for Buffet and his music and his longevity, he's pretty clearly not what AjD is talking about here. (Clear to everyone but one person, I guess. :P )
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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hepcat wrote:The willingness to take a chance and venture outside your comfort zone is what distinguishes a great artist from a mediocre one (imo). It may not always work, but it's certainly better than sticking to the same formula your entire career.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Every decade had a large amount of crap music. We just don't remember it because they don't play crap music and crap artists from the 70s and 80s. They are lost to time. We hear the past through a filter, where all the junk has been removed.

There is good pop music out there today. But we have no way to filter it so all we see is a sea of crap. Thirty years from now our kids will be fondly reminiscing about how good the artists in 2015 were compared to the artists in 2045.

Now, I grant you that music has changed over time. Certainly it's easier for a less-talented artist to auto-tune themselves and make a hit single than it was 30 or 40 years ago. But I strongly believe that the *real* artists out there today will stand the test of time. History is really good at making the great stuff rise to the top, even if we can't see it right now.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Skinypupy »

Back on topic, I just came across this acoustic performance of Heroes that might have just become my favorite recording of this song. When Gail Ann Dorsey comes in around 4:15...just fantastic.

Speaking of Gail Ann, watching her tear through Panic In Detroit is all kinds of awesome.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by LawBeefaroni »

YellowKing wrote:Every decade had a large amount of crap music. We just don't remember it because they don't play crap music and crap artists from the 70s and 80s. They are lost to time. We hear the past through a filter, where all the junk has been removed.

There is good pop music out there today. But we have no way to filter it so all we see is a sea of crap. Thirty years from now our kids will be fondly reminiscing about how good the artists in 2015 were compared to the artists in 2045.

Now, I grant you that music has changed over time. Certainly it's easier for a less-talented artist to auto-tune themselves and make a hit single than it was 30 or 40 years ago. But I strongly believe that the *real* artists out there today will stand the test of time. History is really good at making the great stuff rise to the top, even if we can't see it right now.
Certainly there is good music being made now and certainly it will be around in the future. But the good stuff isn't always recognized and doesn't always "rise to the top." Now even more so because there is so much noise to drown it out. Even in the past it hasn't been the case. Nick Drake is an example of that.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by hepcat »

I had just typed up a reply with a Nick Drake call out, but ultimately felt that since he died at the tender age of 26 with only three albums under his belt, that he fell quite short of the thread's subject of David Bowie and his extensive discography.
Last edited by hepcat on Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by LawBeefaroni »

hepcat wrote:I had just typed up a reply with a Nick Drake call out, but realized that since he died at the tender age of 26 with only three albums under his belt, that he probably wouldn't be a good comparison to Bowie and his extensive discography.
In terms of rising to the top, though, it's an example where it didn't without extensive effort of a few individuals.


It's weird to think about. For example, if you only sold a few thousand copies of an album in the 80s but every single straight edge vegan teen had heard it, you'd have some kind of longevity assured. Now, if you don't have 100M hits on youtube, you're a flash in the pan. OTOH, it's so much easier for people to access music. I don't know. Maybe YK is right, but I think it's going to be a lot different in the future.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Dramatist »

I don't believe there is any comparison to Bowie, that's why his death is such a big deal to so many people. I believe he is the most influential musician of all time.

David Bowie was basically a pop star, but somehow he managed to be cool and relevant as he aged. He actually became cooler. When he collaborated with other musicians (which he often did) they other musicians usually did their best work.

I'm finding it very hard to put into words all my feelings on Bowie. For the last 30 years (ever since I was eighteen) if someone asked me if I could meet any celebrity my answer was always David Bowie. He just did so much, knew so many, helped so many other musicians, influenced so many.

There will never be another like him.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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I'm not sure I would go so far as to claim he was most influential musician of all time. While I think he was brilliant, I think a lot of his genius after the 70's was found in his ability to see which way the wind was blowing in musical circles, and then latch onto that and incorporate his own sensibilities into it. He added a timelessness to things that might otherwise have been the victim of impermanence. Sometimes that was because of his name only, but oftentimes because he allowed his brilliance to meld with that of others. His lack of ego in these endeavors is simply astonishing to me.

I'm not downplaying him as I still think he's one of the most important musical talents of the 20th century. But I have a hard time seeing him as the most influential musician of all time. That's a pretty huge claim.

edit: And bringing up Nick Drake makes me depressed thinking about other Bowie contemporaries who could've gone on to produce some truly great work. My favorite being (and this one will be pooh poohed I'm sure) Marc Bolan. I'm a bit of a T. Rex nut.
Last edited by hepcat on Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Kraken »

AjD wrote:
So, big rock stars. Who came out of the '60s. Bowie's contemporaries. There are previous few of those who have continued to make new music, without slipping into nostalgia or losing the plot.
OK then, please add Todd Rundgren.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Grifman »

Dramatist wrote:I don't believe there is any comparison to Bowie, that's why his death is such a big deal to so many people. I believe he is the most influential musician of all time.
Now I know why your nick is "Dramatist". Seriously - the most influential musician of all time? Come back and tell me if he's still being listened to in 100 years, then you might have something to talk about! :)

Besides, when the earth is swallowed up the sun as it becomes a red giant, none of this will really matter, right? :)
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by hitbyambulance »

Kraken wrote:
AjD wrote:
So, big rock stars. Who came out of the '60s. Bowie's contemporaries. There are previous few of those who have continued to make new music, without slipping into nostalgia or losing the plot.
OK then, please add Todd Rundgren.
+1
hepcat wrote:My favorite being (and this one will be pooh poohed I'm sure) Marc Bolan. I'm a bit of a T. Rex nut.
i've also wondered what Bolan would have gotten up to, years later in life.

on the new album:
with the headphones and amp i was listening with, the percussion was really pronounced - even distractingly so. when i heard the same songs on the radio, it sounded right. really interesting to hear.

my complaints with the album is that it feels too short, and it's somewhat non-contiguous. a few of the tracks still do not make sense to me on how they fit into the overriding theme. it's still in my top 10 albums of his - the new song structures are truly interesting, and Donny McCaslin's saxophone parts are fantastic.

on posthumous albums:
i'd really like to see an official release of Toy (2001 unreleased album where Bowie 'covered' his 1960's songs in his current style).
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Holman »

Bowie's career is interesting because he was both a superstar AND a niche talent.

We all love him, but (being honest here) I doubt that a significant number of people really followed his career to the present day. Most people respond to him for a handful of important songs from the 1970s and 80s. He was an icon and and trendsetter, but after about 1983 he was no longer central to where music was going, and to stay with him from that point meant being more focused and more willing to respond to experimentation. There's a lot of value in that, but most of us didn't go there.

I mean this with respect, of course. An artist's death makes us see the work anew, so it's possible that Bowie's late career will find its larger audience only now.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Still saddening.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by SnarlQuigmire »

I'm embarrassed to say I only knew his popular songs,but that might have to change.I can say I liked all the songs I heard by him.
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RIP Mr.Bowie.There will never be another quite like you sir.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Cremated in New York ...no family or friends allowed per his own wishes.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Square Enix is giving away Omikron The Nomad Soul for a week or so to honor David Bowie. I dont know any more than the name of it over the years Im afraid .
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Smoove_B »

That's really awesome. The game (as I remember it) wasn't all that great. But he provided the sound track and there's a scene at one point where his avatar essentially performs a music video while you're at a bar in the game. I still can clearly remember it all, which is impressive for a game that was released in 1999.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

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Daehawk wrote:Square Enix is giving away Omikron The Nomad Soul for a week or so to honor David Bowie. I dont know any more than the name of it over the years Im afraid .
i have the discs for PC and Dreamcast, but i suppose i will get the digital download as well.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Brian »

Not sure which thread to drop this in but this is just as good as any I suppose.

Image

[Edit] stupid autocorrect.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Daehawk »

This video is supposed to be a rehearsal for his Where Are We Now arena tour that was cancelled....circa 2013. Thought some would enjoy it.
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Re: RIP David Bowie

Post by Skinypupy »

For those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Black lives matter
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