Fast Food Foofaraw

[Isgrimnur]

MarketWatch

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...
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[Kraken]

Is this the thread where we argue about pizza? I never cared about Detroit pizza, or even believed it's really a thing (sorry LordMortis), until I read this interview in yesterday's Globe.

Why did you choose Natick?

We found the spot in Natick, which was an old Pizza Hut, which allowed us to get in here very quickly. We actually still have the old pizza oven. And we partnered with our manager, who’s also a chef. He was a former chef at the Myopia Hunt Club. So he knows a lot about fine dining, which is great. And we actually trained with somebody from Detroit. Most people, they go to Italy to learn how to make pizza. We actually learned from the masters in Detroit. We really focused on making these pizzas that not only tasted great but were also just visually really pretty, like you would get if you went to a steak house. We focus on everything from the box that it comes in down to the fresh herb mix on top to add a little bit of color to all those little details that make it feel just a little bit more special.

How were you able to learn to make pizza in Detroit within the framework of COVID-19?

I literally put a post on a Facebook group to find somebody to partner with in the beginning of June. We hired our chef-manager, our number-one employee, by the end of June. Then we started training with Shawn Randazzo. He started a company called Detroit Style Pizza. He was a two-time world [pizza-making] champion. And he was actually supposed to come out to Boston to train us. But because of COVID, we actually ended up doing Zoom. So he trained us via Zoom and then our manager, Andrew, actually flew out to Detroit to stay in September. He visited seven different Detroit-style pizza places, including Buddy’s Pizza, which is the originator. It’s the one that everyone looks up to or is considered the most authentic. And he met with Shawn in person there and trained with him there as well.

What’s your personal connection to Detroit pizza?

I went to the University of Michigan, where I met my husband, and my husband would take me to Buddy’s Pizza and tell me: ‘This is Detroit-style pizza.’ And I would always tease him. I’d be like, ‘You’re just making this up. This is not a thing like in Chicago or New York.’ We graduated, we moved to New York, we lived in Philadelphia, then in Boston, and I realized I really could not get this pizza anywhere else. … And I was kind of craving that familiar taste. I realized, you know, there really is something to this. And there’s a really cool history, which makes the experience eating it more special.

Why? And why do you think it would resonate with people here in Massachusetts?

I think Detroit-style pizza is special because it’s truly American pizza. It started from a customer in 1946, who decided to bring an auto-parts tray into a bar, and he convinced the owners to cook the dough in that pan. So it has these roots, from the factories, a true American-style pizza. And I think there’s such a great history of tradition. … And [with COVID-19], we can’t go to some of our favorite restaurants, so it’s kind of nice to have something a little different, that brings a little bit of excitement at a time when there’s just not too much new stuff going on.

Tell me about your chef.

It’s been really, really great to have him join the venture, because he brings a level of detail and expertise to the recipes. I’m not a chef; I can’t do that. So we did train with people in Detroit, and we use the recipes they gave us. But we also wanted to bring in Boston, where it made sense. We use King Arthur Flour, which is not something that they use in the Midwest … You’ll see a lot of people use Wisconsin brick cheese, because that’s what they use in Michigan. And it’s a great cheese, but for us to ship it in, it’s not going to be fresh by the time it gets here. So we have our own cheese that mimics that same flavor, but it’s going to be a better quality, because we’re getting it from a local source.

I think that some people might be completely unfamiliar with what this is. What makes Detroit pizza different?

The biggest thing is a pan. So all of our pizzas are cooked in these steel pans; the more you cook pizzas in those pans, it adds flavor. And the idea behind Detroit-style pizza is, ‘Could you make pizza out of focaccia?’ That was kind of how it started. It’s this lighter, doughier, airier version of deep dish. It’s not heavy like a Chicago deep-dish pizza. There’s the process of fermenting the dough, how long to let it sit, what kind of flour, and all that makes a really big difference in how much the dough rises. So it’s finding that perfect mix of letting the dough rise like you would in a focaccia, but then also still having this crispy, crunchy bottom.

The other thing that makes Detroit-style pizza ‘Detroit’ is, because we’re cooking it in these pans, we can put cheese all the way to the edge of the pizza. So the best part of the pizza is actually this cheesy, crunchy crust. People typically fight over the corner pieces with our pizza.

And then the last thing I’ll tell you that’s different about our pizza is we actually put the sauce on top. It just allows the dough to rise a little bit more than if we were to put the sauce on before the cheese on.

Now I want to try it. The interviewee plans to ultimately open 5-15 restaurants; if she does, there'll probably be one within striking distance for me. (I *could* go to Natick, but I really haven't been that far from home in at least six months.)

Boston doesn't have a native pizza style. Because the North End (which tourists call Little Italy) defines pizza here, we mostly have Sicilian or Neapolitan. One can find Chicago deep-dish thrown in for variety, but authentic Italian-style pizza is the gold standard.

[pr0ner]

You could always get the Pizza Hut version!

[Kraken]

I didn't know Pizza Hut still exists. Turns out there are a bunch of "Pizza Hut Express" in Greater Boston. Can't say I've ever noticed one. Ah, it looks like they're all in Target stores, which is a place I never go, so that explains that.

[Z-Corn]

Detroit style pizza is for sure a thing, I've been making one about every other Friday for a couple years.

AND I use King Arthur bread flour to make it so old girl ought to watch her generalizations.

AND I've got a local plug for brick cheese straight from Wisconsin.

I will argue my pizza is better than what she is selling.

[LordMortis]

Is this the thread where we argue about pizza? I never cared about Detroit pizza, or even believed it's really a thing (sorry LordMortis), until I read this interview in yesterday's Globe.

Your prerogative. But there is no better fast food pizza than Jets Detroit Deep Dish Garbage Pizza.

I heard YUM is trying to save Pizza Hut by dipping into Detroit Deep Dish as well. We'll see what that means. *shrug*

The biggest thing is a pan.

Sort of...

The other thing that makes Detroit-style pizza ‘Detroit’ is, because we’re cooking it in these pans, we can put cheese all the way to the edge of the pizza. So the best part of the pizza is actually this cheesy, crunchy crust. People typically fight over the corner pieces with our pizza.

That plus the oil/cheese/crust burn combination is not only the biggest thing. It's the defining thing. People talk about layers of sauce or whatever. It's the same principle as the brownie. The best brownie is the brownie edge that has perfected how the "crust" cooks at the edge. This has been my thesis for longer than we've been OOers.

[ImLawBoy]

AND I use King Arthur bread flour to make it so old girl ought to watch her generalizations.

What a weird thing for her to say. Like we don't get King Arthur flour in the Midwest? Isn't that pretty much nationally distributed? Or is she saying we don't use that for pizza dough in the Midwest? I use it for my pizza dough (which is a more traditional dough - not Detroit style).

[Kraken]

Detroit style pizza is for sure a thing, I've been making one about every other Friday for a couple years.

AND I use King Arthur bread flour to make it so old girl ought to watch her generalizations.

AND I've got a local plug for brick cheese straight from Wisconsin.

I will argue my pizza is better than what she is selling.

Homemade pizza is the best because you make it exactly as you like it. Mine is much better than any takeout options, except possibly for Bertucci's Sporkie when I'm in the mood for that (a white pizza with ricotta and Italian sausage). Also, the sourdough crust at Baba Louie's is hard to beat.

The advantages restaurants have are (1) a truly hot oven, and (2) variety in toppings.

I'm glad you people can get King Arthur, which I believe to be the best available. I read her interview as saying that none of the restaurants she studied use it.

[LordMortis]

white pizza with ricotta and Italian sausage with green peppers, onions, shrimp, crab, and lobster

Sooo good.

[Rumpy]

Pizza is Pizza, isn't it? I don't think I even have access to most of the styles here, but one local trend has been the wood-fired pizza. One local place has opened up very near me that I want to try. We even have Pizza vending machines here.

[pr0ner]

Pizza is Pizza, isn't it?

I'm gonna say no. But the more nuanced debate has been held here and elsewhere many times over.

[Rumpy]

What I mean is, I don't care so much for styles. All I know is, if it's Pizza, I know I'll enjoy it, so all the arguments about the styles are a little moot.

[LordMortis]

What I mean is, I don't care so much for styles. All I know is, if it's Pizza, I know I'll enjoy it, so all the arguments about the styles are a little moot.

If it's pizza, I'll likely enjoy it but I'll enjoy some pizzas more than others and I have different pizza moods.

If I want a Mediterranean pizza I want Cottage Inn but they're deep dish is a literally bad pizza.
Little Caesar's is great when I am on the run but I will never go out of my way for one.
If I want a veggie pizza I go to Mr Pizza
Jet's make my favorite Detroit Deep Dish garbage pizza
Toarmina's make the best traditional round
Happy's have some great deals
Krazy's have the best classic pepperoni where they grease collects into tiny 3/8" cups.
Hungary Howie's used to make chili cheese dog pizza like no other but have since pretty well ended with nothing special.
and then there's places that aren't chains (or weren't) like pizzapapalis who took a spin at the Chicago style deep dish and do a fantastic job.

Papa John's is universally crap. I'll actually find myself passing... So wait. I don't enjoy it all...

And the list goes on and on...

Oddly enough I've yet to try one of the high temp quick fire pizzas that were en vouge a few years ago. I guess with all the pizza places around me they never found their niche here.

[Rumpy]

Some of us just don't have many options

[pr0ner]

Some of us just don't have many options

Have they made a poutine pizza up your way yet?

[Rumpy]

Hmm, I haven't looked into it, but I'd be surprised if if one of the local chains hasn't offered it.

[Kraken]

Pizza is Pizza, isn't it? I don't think I even have access to most of the styles here, but one local trend has been the wood-fired pizza. One local place has opened up very near me that I want to try. We even have Pizza vending machines here.

Coal-fired ovens were trending here when the pandemic hit. Supposedly they can sustain a higher temperature than wood-fired, allowing a pie to "flash bake," yielding a crisp crust and carmelized toppings in just minutes. I haven't heard anything about that trend since restaurants went into survival mode last spring.

[Rumpy]

The Wood Fire pizzeria near me actually opened during the pandemic, a few months ago and has been getting rave reviews.

[Z-Corn]

AND I use King Arthur bread flour to make it so old girl ought to watch her generalizations.

What a weird thing for her to say. Like we don't get King Arthur flour in the Midwest? Isn't that pretty much nationally distributed? Or is she saying we don't use that for pizza dough in the Midwest? I use it for my pizza dough (which is a more traditional dough - not Detroit style).

I think KA is just a great product but I also buy it because it is an employee-owned company. Might be why it is a great product.

[Z-Corn]

Pizza is Pizza, isn't it?

Well Rumpy, congrats. You've done it. I've never wanted to punch a Canadian before but here we are...

[Rumpy]

Well, I guess it's because we have so few options that I don't even know what style they are, therefore I don't really have anything to compare against.So, it's all just Pizza to me.

[Max Peck]

I'm in much the same boat. I can tell you, for example, that I like Gabriel's Pizza more than Mister Mozzarella, but I have no idea what style of pizza they make. It's just pizza to me.

[Blackhawk]

About 95% of all pizza I have access to comes frozen in a cardboard box. I'm generally overjoyed to get my hands on anything that comes from a restaurant. I've never tried any of the regional varieties (Chicago, Detroit, New York, etc), but I'm under the belief that arguing styles is a pastime for rich people.

[Daehawk]

Have always liked Red Baron, Digiorno, Tombstone, and every now and then a generic named store brand or two. They put the shit frozen pizzas we had as kids in the late 70s early 80s to shame. Stuff like Tonys and Jenos and Totinos. We put up with them back then because we had to.

[Rumpy]

I'm in much the same boat. I can tell you, for example, that I like Gabriel's Pizza more than Mister Mozzarella, but I have no idea what style of pizza they make. It's just pizza to me.

Yeah, exactly. You get it. There's one local chain here (Topper's Pizza) that started out as thin crust, but over the last several decades, their recipe changed to being a thicker pizza-hut style pizza.

[Daehawk]

The history of frozen pizza—how a frozen food staple became a multibillion-dollar business

I remember in 95 my wife bringing home a DiGiorno pizza for the first time. They were new and had a rising crust. It was...I think Wednesday....and it was Star Trek Voyager night on tv. I sat in bed eating that pizza while watching Voyager. From then on I had to have a pizza for Voyager. I think I had a pizza a week for that show for about the first year. Good times.

Also that article says Totinos was making $55 million a year and they sold the company for $22 million. WTF kinda business strategy is that? "Hey honey lets sell the entire thing for 6 months worth of money" ....I mean shit Id want at least $500 million.

[TheMix]

Also that article says Totinos was making $55 million a year and they sold the company for $22 million. WTF kinda business strategy is that? "Hey honey lets sell the entire thing for 6 months worth of money" ....I mean shit Id want at least $500 million.

Presumably that was sales. Minus all the expenses, it was probably not that much. So the owners were getting their salaries, which likely weren't that much, plus a small profit. Versus getting a check for $22 million; that instantly makes them millionaires and lets them retire if they want. We also don't know how hard they were working to make the company a success. Probably a lot of hours.

[Rumpy]

Yeah, it's probably that they weighed how much they'd be getting running it themselves vs another company buying it and paying them cash directly. In some businesses, operating costs mean that the return ends up being slim, especially if they're a small company. Meanwhile, a bigger company wouldn't be feel it quite as much and would be better balanced and prepared to outweigh the differences.

[Jeff V]

I had a frozen Home Run Inn pizza the other night. When it comes to frozen pizzas that are close to the real deal, they have it nailed. Rosatis, my favorite delivery pizza, recently put out some frozen pizza; it's not bad but inexplicably it has a thinner crust than you get from their restaurants. I had Gino's East a week ago, it's not as good as frozen Lou Malnati's, but it's sold in supermarkets. The crust on the Gino's East gets too crispy when cooked long enough for the innards to be hot.

[Daehawk]

I mentioned how I had DiGiorno each week for a year in the mid 90s. Sometime after that though I couldn't buy a good one from them. Every time I baked one it was soggy in the middle and slightly underdone there. The rest was done or burned if I cooked it extra long to try to fix the middle. In fact I dont think I had another until a few years ago. Had one the other week and it was fine too. Same oven.

[Rumpy]

I think that happens if it gets frozen and unfrozen. We've had frozen pizzas that were on sale where the crusts were soggy and didn't cook well.

[Zenn7]

I had a frozen Home Run Inn pizza the other night. When it comes to frozen pizzas that are close to the real deal, they have it nailed. Rosatis, my favorite delivery pizza, recently put out some frozen pizza; it's not bad but inexplicably it has a thinner crust than you get from their restaurants. I had Gino's East a week ago, it's not as good as frozen Lou Malnati's, but it's sold in supermarkets. The crust on the Gino's East gets too crispy when cooked long enough for the innards to be hot.

Gino's East cheese pizzas are by far and away my favorite frozen pizza. But I do like Digiorno - particularly, their spinach, mushroom and garlic pizza (with another can of mushrooms on top (or fresh if I have any), some onions, maybe some red or orange bell pepper, and some black forest ham and LOTS of extra cheese). Kroger's rising crust cheese pizzas are not too bad either (considering it's store brand, but I think they're like $2.99 and often on sale).

Wife and kid love Tombstone's, sometimes Jacks.

Wife loves Pizza Hut for out to eat (she loves their crunchy breadsticks, most places having soft, butter breadsticks). Their pizza is OK, but I like Jet's and some other more local places better.
Deep Dish from Pizza Papalis is by far and away the best for me tastes!

[Holman]

(I know the topic is frozen pizza, but...)

Apparently there's such a thing as "Philly-style pizza," but I'm not sure what it is. I'm told it's moderately thick.

When I get pizza, it's usually from a place just a block away that does NYC thin. It's $2.75 a slice, and each slice is enormous. It's everything I want from a pizza.

On the other hand, I've had Chicago pizza in Chicago, and I know its delicious. I assume it must be like six bucks a slice, though.

[Kraken]

I don't dislike NY-style pizza -- it's still pizza, after all -- but it's never my first choice. I like a thicker crust with a nice crunch on the bottom. Pizza should not be foldable.

[Z-Corn]

I took one for the team last Saturday and ordered a Pizza Hut Detroit style. Cup pepperoni (or whateverthefuck they called it, they have two types) sausage and black olives.

It was cheap, $14. It's not...terrible...but it's not true Detroit style. It's a Sears poncho of Detroit style...

[Holman]

I can't have TOO thick a pizza or I feel like I'm eating slathered bread. I want a lot of surface area, and I want to be able to bite it off in my mouth and taste more toppings than flour. That tilts towards thin.

I feel like there must have been a vicious NYC vs Chicago pizza thread at some point, but I'm too scared to look.

[Daehawk]

Had a Tombstone today. Cheese and pepperoni were good but didn't care for the crust at all. Just a thin hard piece of dough. I like my crust to be bready. I prefer Pizza Hut pan pizza over anything but they are too expensive. May try Little Caesar sometime.

[em2nought]

Had a Digiorno croissant crust and was not impressed by the croissant crust at all. Wouldn't even call it croissant. Nothing like the picture.

[ImLawBoy]

On the other hand, I've had Chicago pizza in Chicago, and I know its delicious. I assume it must be like six bucks a slice, though.

I don't think anyone knows, because it's not really sold by the slice. BTW, there are really two styles of Chicago pizza. Most equate Chicago-style deep dish with the city, but everyday pizza is typically thin crust cut tavern style (into squares). In either case, sausage is the preferred topping over pepperoni.

I feel like there must have been a vicious NYC vs Chicago pizza thread at some point, but I'm too scared to look.

There is one out there, but the NYC fans are mostly repeating Jon Stewart's tired, inaccurate representations and withering in the white hot truth of my pizza opinions/facts.

[Sudy]

I've long wanted to try an authentic Chicago deep dish, but haven't yet had that opportunity as the few legitimate options nearby don't deliver to my location.

Commercial deep dish like Pizza Hut just disgusts me (yes, I know it has nothing in common with Chicago-style, and in fact I barely consider it pizza at all). But for some reason it's the favourite pizza of all the women in my life, so I tolerate it. It actually reheats pretty well. And I know it's wrong, but the new Domino's deep dish is actually tasty.

I think my favourite chain delivery pizza right now is Pizzaville. It's semi-authentic. My preference is hot sausage, strip bacon, mushrooms, and asiago cheese. Goes great with a Brio or root beer and some blue cheese dip, if that's your thing. Occasionally we get Little Caesar's since they returned to Canada, but the only point is nostalgia, crazy bread, and cheap calories. It's kind of horrible, but I'd still rather eat it than the hut.

Frozen-wise, we don't have a lot of the American options. In this category Mrs. Nym will generally only eat thin crust, and insists we add extra grated cheese. Most of the Dr. Oetker ones aren't "bad". Some of the local house brands are decent too. We both hate most of the ubiquitous Delissio products (they're the Canadian branding of DiGiorno). They're usually all bread. And bad bread.