The #filmtwitter world is focused on France and the Cannes Film Festival announcement this morning, but there's much more going on beyond the Croisette. Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Pictures have announced that production has started on “Ghost In The Shell” starring Scarlett Johansson, and they’ve released the inaugural first look image from the movie.
Rupert Sanders (“Snow White And the Huntsman”) is directing the anime adaption, with lensing taking place in Wellington, New Zealand. Paramount Pictures will release the film in the U.S. on March 31, 2017.
After such a long and eager wait, it’s easy to understand why, for a split second, all of us who love the original movie got excited. But for many, the joy soured quickly to a tired and jaded despair as everyone realized that Johansson’s casting, while a major catalyst moving the remake forward, was yet another example in a long tradition of Hollywood whitewashing foreign characters. Usually, such realizations just lead to grumblings on select corners of the internet. But for loyal fans of Ghost in the Shell, a series whose plots and themes are deeply inured in questions of identity and a Japanese cultural and historical context, this was a step too far. Within a month, a fan named Julie Rodriguez had organized a petition urging Dreamworks to replace Johansson in the remake, which has since drawn tens of thousands of signatories, a wide swath of social media support, and mass media commentary. It’s a rush of attention that has once again brought whitewashing front and center, and poses a serious question as to whether big studios can respond to widespread outrage over major social concerns.
Don't know alot of them but I could see upsides to Maggie Q, or Ziyi Zang. I'd love to them in a techno noire style lead role.I like Doona Bae's work but I feel like she'd need to bulk up to play an action cop.
wonderpug wrote:A lot of anime films are created with characters who don't look particularly Japanese, so I'm not quite sure this really counts as an injustice.
True, But I don't feel that GITS is one of those. Trigun, Vampire hunter, Titan, pokemon sure.
I can see the point of wanting Scarlett's role played by an Asian chick, but I wish they hadn't played the "whitewashing" racism card. They've got a valid enough point due to the Japanese cultural themes without resorting to racism. It gets so tiresome when every perceived injustice on the internet, no matter how minor, is due to racism.
YellowKing wrote:I can see the point of wanting Scarlett's role played by an Asian chick, but I wish they hadn't played the "whitewashing" racism card. They've got a valid enough point due to the Japanese cultural themes without resorting to racism. It gets so tiresome when every perceived injustice on the internet, no matter how minor, is due to racism.
I completely agree, but things like whitewashing is why people say it.
Don't know alot of them but I could see upsides to Maggie Q, or Ziyi Zang. I'd love to them in a techno noire style lead role.I like Doona Bae's work but I feel like she'd need to bulk up to play an action cop.
I was trying to place Celina Jade. Of course, I only had to click on her name to find out she played Shado on Arrow.
Combustible Lemur wrote:I love this anime. I really enjoy Scarlet J's work. I need to know more about the new project. What were there no Asian actresses available?
Shouldn't this have said there are no Japanese actresses available? There are many people in Japan who would find casting a Chinese actress like Zhang Ziyi more racist and offensive than a white actress.
Also, the "inaugural first look image", IndieWire? LOL.
Combustible Lemur wrote:I love this anime. I really enjoy Scarlet J's work. I need to know more about the new project. What were there no Asian actresses available?
Shouldn't this have said there are no Japanese actresses available? There are many people in Japan who would find casting a Chinese actress like Zhang Ziyi more racist and offensive than a white actress.
Also, the "inaugural first look image", IndieWire? LOL.
That's probably true. But it might also be fair play for all the Canadians and Australians cast as Americans
Combustible Lemur wrote:I love this anime. I really enjoy Scarlet J's work. I need to know more about the new project. What were there no Asian actresses available?
Shouldn't this have said there are no Japanese actresses available? There are many people in Japan who would find casting a Chinese actress like Zhang Ziyi more racist and offensive than a white actress.
Also, the "inaugural first look image", IndieWire? LOL.
That's probably true. But it might also be fair play for all the Canadians and Australians cast as Americans
Anime is a niche product and has not fared well in film. Casting Scarlett helps broaden the appeal and draw for a movie like this. I dont think there is an asian actress that comes close to Scarlett's draw power. People love to call this white washing but the truth is its simple economics. This thing has rotted in development hell for a very long time and was only revitalized once they got the star power involved to make the project viable. If the petition to remove Scarlett from the production succeeds ( and it wont ) that would in all probability throw the film back into development hell and it would never see the light of day. In the end, they make these movies to make money, so there will always be trade off.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
Combustible Lemur wrote:I love this anime. I really enjoy Scarlet J's work. I need to know more about the new project. What were there no Asian actresses available?
Shouldn't this have said there are no Japanese actresses available? There are many people in Japan who would find casting a Chinese actress like Zhang Ziyi more racist and offensive than a white actress.
Also, the "inaugural first look image", IndieWire? LOL.
That's probably true. But it might also be fair play for all the Canadians and Australians cast as Americans
That's not the same comparison at all.
I was being facetious. There is a balance somwhere. It's impractical to only cast nationality true. Color blind casting makes for some really interesting art. American producers whitewash Alot.
Would American's be offended at a Japanese film having a German being cast as an american? Some definately. It's an interesting question whether producer should prioritize the source or or local issues when casting a film. If GITS wasn't a future fantasy with a multicultural and diverse world but a ww2 history film. Yeah that would be a little wrong.
Ultimately it depends on what's done with the work. Edge of tomorrow was great but also a less known work and I don't think it was ever film/animated. Dragon Ball z was a travesty and white washing was the least of its problems.
They should have gone with Grace Park. Distinctly Asian, but her features and lack of accent would appeal to western audiences. She's athletic and agile, and she has some 'geek' appeal for her work in Battlestar.
Blackhawk wrote:They should have gone with Grace Park. Distinctly Asian, but her features and lack of accent would appeal to western audiences. She's athletic and agile, and she has some 'geek' appeal for her work in Battlestar.
This is shallow but she's not busty enough to play Motoko.
When you live next to the same family for thousands of years and they've been crapping on your lawn on a regular basis, I imagine it tends to foster some cultural resentment.
HANK: So, are you Chinese or Japanese?
KAHN: I live in California last twenty years, but first come from Laos.
HANK: Huh?
KAHN: Laos. We Laotian.
BILL: The ocean? What ocean?
KAHN: We are Laotian. From Laos, stupid! It's a landlocked country in Southeast Asia. It's between Vietnam and Thailand, okay? Population 4.7 million.
HANK: So, are you Chinese or Japanese?
Don't know alot of them but I could see upsides to Maggie Q, or Ziyi Zang. I'd love to them in a techno noire style lead role.I like Doona Bae's work but I feel like she'd need to bulk up to play an action cop.
Casting Maggie Q or Zang Ziyi for the role is going to also upset some people.
Don't know alot of them but I could see upsides to Maggie Q, or Ziyi Zang. I'd love to them in a techno noire style lead role.I like Doona Bae's work but I feel like she'd need to bulk up to play an action cop.
Casting Maggie Q or Zang Ziyi for the role is going to also upset some people.
As proner pointed out. Thus the question, who's racism do we cocern ourselves with?
Casting of actors of different nationality than the character is a very different issue than 'whitewashing', however. The specific casting of white people to play minority characters is tied up with white people being economically and politically dominant in the United States (and the associated history).
It seems a little silly to go all the way to the opposite direction and effectively require that characters must be played by actors of the same nationality as those characters.
YellowKing wrote:I can see the point of wanting Scarlett's role played by an Asian chick, but I wish they hadn't played the "whitewashing" racism card. They've got a valid enough point due to the Japanese cultural themes without resorting to racism. It gets so tiresome when every perceived injustice on the internet, no matter how minor, is due to racism.
I tend to agree with your thinking that when studios drop millions of dollars into a project they would want a bankable star to protect that investment, but studios need to evolve and white-washing is a valid concern.
Agreed. This kind of thing should be placed behind us. I was listening to George Takei on the Gilbert Gottfried podcast the other day and he was discussing the history of white washing in Hollywood films, and how it hurt him and other perfectly capable Asian actors back in the day (and to some extent, still).
At one point he was told point blank by a casting head that Asians simply weren't capable of doing drama and that they were only good for comedy.
He also brought up a fact that I wasn't aware of: Charlie Chan was always played by a Caucasian....but his sons were always Asian. Mainly because they were considered comic relief.
To me, that excuse doesn't sound out of place if one were to attempt to defend blackface in the early film industry. Not to mention the idea of a feedback loop. If they 'protect their investment' by not casting accurate ethnicities, then they perpetuate the idea that accurate ethnicities is a hindrance.
Again though - who's to say what ethnicity is accurate? By that rationale, we shouldn't be casting Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm because the Human Torch wasn't black in the comics.
Because whitewashing was a problem, we are forever now banned from casting white actors in roles originated by a person of another ethnicity?
My point being, why can't we judge things on a case by case basis instead of jumping straight to the racism card?
P.S. To really shake things up - the English dub of the character was done by an African-American woman.
Not at all. But when a character's ethnicity is core to their character and the story, it's absolutely relevant. Just look at the gnashing of teeth in the Dark Tower thread about the casting decisions.
You want to cast Storm for a black man? Fine. But casting someone of Danish descent as a Japanese cyborg is a bit much. If you want to cast Scarlett, at least change the character name from Motoko Kusanagi to something a bit more plausible.
As with everything, there are gradations available that would mitigate some of this. They didn't choose one. The true fans are already upset about the casting. But the movie won't make the money it needs relying solely on them. It needs the public at large to see it, most of which are going to be confused trying to parse 'Motoko Kusanagi' as a character name.
This is based on a frikkin cartoon ( yeah calling anime/manga a cartoon is probably racist as well )
Have you seen the character in question? Theres a pretty good argument that Motoko is pretty white washed in the original material. Johansson probably looks more like Motoko than most of those asian ethnic actors they are calling for. I understand that there is some degree of "whitewashing" in Hollywood, but then when the majority of your target audience is a specific ethnicity, you try to cast actors the general audience can identify with. I wonder if there would be this much outrage if they cast someone like Hallie Berry or Eva Mendes in the role.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
It should always be pointed out, no matter the circumstance. I would rather have people get their panties in a bunch over some perceived conspiracy against white people/men/whatever group feels slighted when called on for something than go with the alternative, which is to essentially give consent via silence. That way leads to the envelope being pushed in the wrong direction...and I truly believe that being too sensitive and wrong is the lesser of two evils.
rshetts2 wrote:This is based on a frikkin cartoon ( yeah calling anime/manga a cartoon is probably racist as well )
Have you seen the character in question? Theres a pretty good argument that Motoko is pretty white washed in the original material. Johansson probably looks more like Motoko than most of those asian ethnic actors they are calling for. I understand that there is some degree of "whitewashing" in Hollywood, but then when the majority of your target audience is a specific ethnicity, you try to cast actors the general audience can identify with. I wonder if there would be this much outrage if they cast someone like Hallie Berry or Eva Mendes in the role.
Some, but probably less. There are two basic issues connected to this: (1) Ghost in the Shell is pretty firmly tied into Japan, so the casting of anyone who is clearly not Japanese was bound to seem odd / create a disconnect; and (2) the broader history of whitewashing, where Hollywood has a known history of shutting out minority actors from decent roles.
Casting Halle Berry (say) would have triggered some reaction on the first issue, but of course not on the second.
hepcat wrote: That way leads to the envelope being pushed in the wrong direction...and I truly believe that being too sensitive and wrong is the lesser of two evils.
I tend to think the opposite. That by being too sensitive, we risk being the boy who cried wolf to the point that it all becomes noise that is either ignored or stirs up resentment. We all say we strive for a "color-blind" world where nobody sees color, but I don't know how we get there when every perceived slight is blamed on racism.
If I didn't think that most of the people who would truly resent it, or that would view it simply as noise to be ignored, were the ones who wouldn't really care too much when it was true, I'd agree with you.
I want the world you describe. But we're not even close to being there yet. Hopefully some day though. But until then, I can understand some folks being overly sensitive in light of how recently institutionalized racism was the norm.
