One thing I will say and this goes back to the Ibaka trade. That seemed wrong to me and reminded me of how they dealt harden to avoid paying the extra cash to him. Ibaka was coming up on a free agency next summer. OKC has a history of going cheap and avoiding the luxury tax area ( i get it small market). I wonder if this was a factor.
Great move on the Warriors. Will be a beast to watch. Wow, just wow. 4 awesome players on the same team. If they dont rip off 3 title wins on this...i'd be surprised. Cant wait to watch them in action now. Now how do the Warriors clear the cap space? Hopefully the lakers can be there and help them with their dilemna.
Also to your point Rip - yeah Pacers have had a great offseason, really, really strong. I'd definitely say top 4. Cavs, pacers, Celts have improved....Hawks have gotten worse ...have ever heard of subtraction by addition...that's Dwight for you. Dude is a cancer. I expect there to be rumors of his discontent...by oh...Thanksgiving of this year.
I love trade and free agency periods of sports...so damn fun to track everything.
Bayraktar!!!!
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
Chris Paul can't go to the Lakers because they would be OP (they haven't won anything since).
Kevin Durant to the Warriors? Sure, because 73 wins isn't quite enough.
The Paul trade was vetoed because the league owned the Hornets at the time and the trade would have ruined the Hornets value as a franchise. It was one of the most one sided trades ever, as the Lakers would have gained a 4 time allstar while dumping 20 million in bad contract money and relieved themselves of 21 million in cap taxes, at the expense of an entire franchise.
Finally Durant is a free agent, the league can not suddenly void his free agency rights because they want to. The two situation have nothing in common.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
Chris Paul can't go to the Lakers because they would be OP (they haven't won anything since).
Kevin Durant to the Warriors? Sure, because 73 wins isn't quite enough.
The Paul trade was vetoed because the league owned the Hornets at the time and the trade would have ruined the Hornets value as a franchise. It was one of the most one sided trades ever, as the Lakers would have gained a 4 time allstar while dumping 20 million in bad contract money and relieved themselves of 21 million in cap taxes, at the expense of an entire franchise.
Finally Durant is a free agent, the league can not suddenly void his free agency rights because they want to. The two situation have nothing in common.
That trade was more than fair, and it was of equal value to both parties. Even in hindsight the hornets were getting a slightly better deal x years down the road. I dont recall the particulars, but I do remember reading an article a year or two ago looking back on the trade and the Hornets would have really benefited from it. If i feel inclined I'll find that article, but i doubt it. Yeah for arguing with vagueness right?
Chris Paul can't go to the Lakers because they would be OP (they haven't won anything since).
Kevin Durant to the Warriors? Sure, because 73 wins isn't quite enough.
The Paul trade was vetoed because the league owned the Hornets at the time and the trade would have ruined the Hornets value as a franchise. It was one of the most one sided trades ever, as the Lakers would have gained a 4 time allstar while dumping 20 million in bad contract money and relieved themselves of 21 million in cap taxes, at the expense of an entire franchise.
Finally Durant is a free agent, the league can not suddenly void his free agency rights because they want to. The two situation have nothing in common.
That trade was more than fair, and it was of equal value to both parties. Even in hindsight the hornets were getting a slightly better deal x years down the road. I dont recall the particulars, but I do remember reading an article a year or two ago looking back on the trade and the Hornets would have really benefited from it. If i feel inclined I'll find that article, but i doubt it. Yeah for arguing with vagueness right?
Yeah, I went with information from an article regarding the trade that was written when the trade was vetoed. Of course that information does not have the benefit of hindsight and neither did the NBA when they whacked the trade at the behest of the majority of the team owners, who felt the trade was unfairly balanced in LA's favor.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
Newcastle wrote:KD to the Warriors various media spots report.
One thing I will say and this goes back to the Ibaka trade. That seemed wrong to me and reminded me of how they dealt harden to avoid paying the extra cash to him. Ibaka was coming up on a free agency next summer. OKC has a history of going cheap and avoiding the luxury tax area ( i get it small market). I wonder if this was a factor.
Great move on the Warriors. Will be a beast to watch. Wow, just wow. 4 awesome players on the same team. If they dont rip off 3 title wins on this...i'd be surprised. Cant wait to watch them in action now. Now how do the Warriors clear the cap space? Hopefully the lakers can be there and help them with their dilemna.
Also to your point Rip - yeah Pacers have had a great offseason, really, really strong. I'd definitely say top 4. Cavs, pacers, Celts have improved....Hawks have gotten worse ...have ever heard of subtraction by addition...that's Dwight for you. Dude is a cancer. I expect there to be rumors of his discontent...by oh...Thanksgiving of this year.
I love trade and free agency periods of sports...so damn fun to track everything.
Apparently it's a 2-year deal, with a player opt-out after the first year. Smart move by KD, since the cap is supposed to go up a LOT again next year. Very similar to LeBron's deal with the Cavs recently.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Chris Paul can't go to the Lakers because they would be OP (they haven't won anything since).
Kevin Durant to the Warriors? Sure, because 73 wins isn't quite enough.
The Paul trade was vetoed because the league owned the Hornets at the time and the trade would have ruined the Hornets value as a franchise. It was one of the most one sided trades ever, as the Lakers would have gained a 4 time allstar while dumping 20 million in bad contract money and relieved themselves of 21 million in cap taxes, at the expense of an entire franchise.
Finally Durant is a free agent, the league can not suddenly void his free agency rights because they want to. The two situation have nothing in common.
I realize it's not the same thing (and now we have a different commish - thank goodness!), but that one action (and I am not aware of any such league vetoes before or since) hamstrung the Lakers for a decade, and we have moved into an era where piling on all-stars to already great teams is the norm. It should go down in infamy as the Stern Burn.
Chris Paul can't go to the Lakers because they would be OP (they haven't won anything since).
Kevin Durant to the Warriors? Sure, because 73 wins isn't quite enough.
The Paul trade was vetoed because the league owned the Hornets at the time and the trade would have ruined the Hornets value as a franchise. It was one of the most one sided trades ever, as the Lakers would have gained a 4 time allstar while dumping 20 million in bad contract money and relieved themselves of 21 million in cap taxes, at the expense of an entire franchise.
Finally Durant is a free agent, the league can not suddenly void his free agency rights because they want to. The two situation have nothing in common.
I realize it's not the same thing (and now we have a different commish - thank goodness!), but that one action (and I am not aware of any such league vetoes before or since) hamstrung the Lakers for a decade, and we have moved into an era where piling on all-stars to already great teams is the norm. It should go down in infamy as the Stern Burn.
I'm not sure that it's fair to blame Stern for killing the Lakers when it was the Lakers that created 20MM in bad contracts and 21MM in cap tax to deal with in the first place.
Chris Paul can't go to the Lakers because they would be OP (they haven't won anything since).
Kevin Durant to the Warriors? Sure, because 73 wins isn't quite enough.
The Paul trade was vetoed because the league owned the Hornets at the time and the trade would have ruined the Hornets value as a franchise. It was one of the most one sided trades ever, as the Lakers would have gained a 4 time allstar while dumping 20 million in bad contract money and relieved themselves of 21 million in cap taxes, at the expense of an entire franchise.
Finally Durant is a free agent, the league can not suddenly void his free agency rights because they want to. The two situation have nothing in common.
I realize it's not the same thing (and now we have a different commish - thank goodness!), but that one action (and I am not aware of any such league vetoes before or since) hamstrung the Lakers for a decade, and we have moved into an era where piling on all-stars to already great teams is the norm. It should go down in infamy as the Stern Burn.
I'm not sure that it's fair to blame Stern for killing the Lakers when it was the Lakers that created 20MM in bad contracts and 21MM in cap tax to deal with in the first place.
Are you saying Lamar Odom & Pau Gasol were the bad contracts? Those were some pretty rock solid contributors to the championship that the Lake show won a couple years prior. Pau - just got a fat contract w/ the spurs like $30M. Odom was still contributing high quality minutes prior to his trade. So the "bad contract" argument has no juice.
Bayraktar!!!!
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
Chris Paul can't go to the Lakers because they would be OP (they haven't won anything since).
Kevin Durant to the Warriors? Sure, because 73 wins isn't quite enough.
The Paul trade was vetoed because the league owned the Hornets at the time and the trade would have ruined the Hornets value as a franchise. It was one of the most one sided trades ever, as the Lakers would have gained a 4 time allstar while dumping 20 million in bad contract money and relieved themselves of 21 million in cap taxes, at the expense of an entire franchise.
Finally Durant is a free agent, the league can not suddenly void his free agency rights because they want to. The two situation have nothing in common.
I realize it's not the same thing (and now we have a different commish - thank goodness!), but that one action (and I am not aware of any such league vetoes before or since) hamstrung the Lakers for a decade, and we have moved into an era where piling on all-stars to already great teams is the norm. It should go down in infamy as the Stern Burn.
I'm not sure that it's fair to blame Stern for killing the Lakers when it was the Lakers that created 20MM in bad contracts and 21MM in cap tax to deal with in the first place.
Are you saying Lamar Odom & Pau Gasol were the bad contracts? Those were some pretty rock solid contributors to the championship that the Lake show won a couple years prior. Pau - just got a fat contract w/ the spurs like $30M. Odom was still contributing high quality minutes prior to his trade. So the "bad contract" argument has no juice.
Sorry - I was just repeating the argument nested above... In reviewing the proposed deal real quick, yeah, it looks like the Lakers did kinda get hosed. And so did New Orleans, actually.
But they didn't - Goran Dragic, now is a pretty damn good point guard in the league. Luis Scola is still a solid role player. Kenyone martin...meh ok, and a 1st round draft pick.
Point being is that while it wasn't a super star for super star equitable, it was reasonable value to get in return.
Bayraktar!!!!
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
Newcastle wrote:But they didn't - Goran Dragic, now is a pretty damn good point guard in the league. Luis Scola is still a solid role player. Kenyone martin...meh ok, and a 1st round draft pick.
Point being is that while it wasn't a super star for super star equitable, it was reasonable value to get in return.
Newcastle wrote:KD to the Warriors various media spots report.
One thing I will say and this goes back to the Ibaka trade. That seemed wrong to me and reminded me of how they dealt harden to avoid paying the extra cash to him. Ibaka was coming up on a free agency next summer. OKC has a history of going cheap and avoiding the luxury tax area ( i get it small market). I wonder if this was a factor.
Great move on the Warriors. Will be a beast to watch. Wow, just wow. 4 awesome players on the same team. If they dont rip off 3 title wins on this...i'd be surprised. Cant wait to watch them in action now. Now how do the Warriors clear the cap space? Hopefully the lakers can be there and help them with their dilemna.
Also to your point Rip - yeah Pacers have had a great offseason, really, really strong. I'd definitely say top 4. Cavs, pacers, Celts have improved....Hawks have gotten worse ...have ever heard of subtraction by addition...that's Dwight for you. Dude is a cancer. I expect there to be rumors of his discontent...by oh...Thanksgiving of this year.
I love trade and free agency periods of sports...so damn fun to track everything.
Apparently it's a 2-year deal, with a player opt-out after the first year. Smart move by KD, since the cap is supposed to go up a LOT again next year. Very similar to LeBron's deal with the Cavs recently.
It seems everyone whos anyone is signing a contract with an opt out for next year.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
but that one action (and I am not aware of any such league vetoes before or since) hamstrung the Lakers for a decade
You say that like its a bad thing!
Seriously though, you cant put the Lakers woes totally on the Lakers not getting a deal through. You may as well blame LeBron for not signing with LA when he decided to leave Cleveland. Bad management and a seriously hamstringing contract for Kobe did most of the damage.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
but that one action (and I am not aware of any such league vetoes before or since) hamstrung the Lakers for a decade
You say that like its a bad thing!
Seriously though, you cant put the Lakers woes totally on the Lakers not getting a deal through. You may as well blame LeBron for not signing with LA when he decided to leave Cleveland. Bad management and a seriously hamstringing contract for Kobe did most of the damage.
Agreed they made multiple gaffes after the Stern Burn. But it started the downhill slide. Kupchak put the nixed deal together, but then nobody wanted to play with Kobe. Now the league has passed him by. Superstars are no longer buying into the LA mystique, and the the Lakers end up with plenty of cash and no one to spend it on.
I would argue the thing that really set em back was Howard trade & Nash trade. They forfeited at least 3-4 1st. round draft picks. The impetus for doing that was one last hoorah for Dr. Buss because he was close to dying. It obviously backfired massively. But I am sure if they had to do it over again, in the same exact scenarios they would do it again. Who knew that Nash would self destruct in the first week of the 3 year deal? Who knew that Dwight was such a prima donna (ok that could have been prevented)? Who knew that Kobe's achille would blow up and would shatter him for the remainder of his years?
Just a crappy sequence of events. I am still 100% behind MItch Kupchak though (i am wavering on Jim BUss though- that Ding hitpiece...wow!). I think he's a great, great GM. I also think they have some great scouts, So i think that the youngins will work they just need time. its the new NBA. You build through the draft, unfortunately that change happened when the Lakers were devoid of picks. I think we're still on the hook for 2 more 1st round draft picks in the next 3-4 years.
The coaching hires were misses obviously...but I think we've passed the low point and in 2-4 years we'll be good again. And by that time the shine will be off the warriors super team.
Bayraktar!!!!
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
Jeff V wrote:Just because they wound up with a shit ton of cap space doesn't mean they HAVE to spend all of that money on a has-been, does it?
He averaged over 23 pts per game, 4.6 rbs , 2 steals and had a .783 free throw percentage. Last season was his best statistically in 6 years. No one on the Bulls had that good of a season, last year. If he performs even close to that this year he will probably be the best player the Bulls have. You may not like the deal but if D Wade is a has been, then what does that say for the rest of the squad?
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
McNutt wrote:Wade has a lot of gas left in the tank. He's a huge asset to any team.
That's like saying a mahogany conference table is a huge asset to any flophouse. It is a completely unnecessary luxury. When the Bulls signed Rondo, they signaled they are prepared to suck it hard this season. So why spend $45 million on Wade? To trade him for low draft picks before the trade deadline?
Rondo was pretty stellar in the assist department last season, I thought I heard that he led the league... I dont recall precisely what i heard, but some radio folks were saying how he was a league leader in assists. So its a decent get I think. Now, just hope he doesn't nuke the locker room.
Bayraktar!!!!
Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
Newcastle wrote:Now, just hope he doesn't nuke the locker room.
That's what everyone expects he will do. This Bulls team lacks the dominate personalities of Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson that kept Dennis Rodman in check once upon a time. The makeup of the team just has dysfunction written all over it (moreso than last year). If a team can't be a top contender for a title, then they best be a contender for top draft pick. In between these extremes is a miserable limbo that is most effective at perpetuating mediocrity and is no place any fan wants their team to be.
McNutt wrote:Wade has a lot of gas left in the tank. He's a huge asset to any team.
That's like saying a mahogany conference table is a huge asset to any flophouse. It is a completely unnecessary luxury. When the Bulls signed Rondo, they signaled they are prepared to suck it hard this season. So why spend $45 million on Wade? To trade him for low draft picks before the trade deadline?
Can't believe I am saying this but I agree with Jeff. It makes no sense.
Now if you are going to start Wade that means moving Butler to the 3 which I am sure he can do but not where he belongs. A large part of his defensive advantage is playing against less physical guys. Won't find as many of those at the 3. They could have got a solid 3 instead for less money. Like Batum.
I can only assume the deal was about selling tickets and not about winning basketball games.
Rip wrote:
I can only assume the deal was about selling tickets and not about winning basketball games.
Maybe, but IIRC, their season ticket base is pretty solid, and is Wade really going to sell $23 million in single tickets that would otherwise go unsold? I think they would have been fine with a line up that, even if contending for a top draft pick, showed some sign of building towards a future. This is similar to the way Reinsdorf's other property, the White Sox, are foundering...an unwillingness to look down the road to the ultimate objective. Instead, they build a team that at best could be a marginal improvement over last year, and that is ultimately another disaster as the 8th seed, one-and-done playoff team in the NBA is perhaps the most pathetic thing in all of professional team sports.
Whether Wade is a good fit for the Bulls is an entirely different question. The point was that Wade is not some cast off has been.
You are right about the Bulls franchise though, they are kind of a hot mess right now. I cant wait for their fans collective heads to explode when it becomes evident, halfway through the season, that Rose is having a career year with the Knicks.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
rshetts2 wrote:Whether Wade is a good fit for the Bulls is an entirely different question. The point was that Wade is not some cast off has been.
You are right about the Bulls franchise though, they are kind of a hot mess right now. I cant wait for their fans collective heads to explode when it becomes evident, halfway through the season, that Rose is having a career year with the Knicks.
I was right with you until the Rose having a career year part. The Knicks are set for being as much a hot mess as the Bulls. I actually laughed out loud when I saw the NY Post claim they were contenders and would compete with CLE for best in the east.
Doesn't matter, Rose had already checked out here before the season even started. He pissed everyone here off when he pretty much said he was looking forward to his next contract and not put in maximum effort in the two years remaining on his current contract. Nobody likes or needs a player like that.
Sucks losing Wade. He was my son's favorite player, but it makes sense from the Heat standpoint. They need to focus on the future, not be burdened with the past like the Lakers did with Kobe. I truly think this was an emotional decision for Wade after years of taking a bit of a paycut. At the end of the day he didn't leave for that much more money. He left because he wasn't given what he thought was his due. In a few years he will retire, his jersey will go up and his legacy will be secure.
As far as the Bulls, it will be entertaining to watch this squad. Rondo is a head case, but talented as hell. They are going to have moments of brilliance and hair pulling frustration. It doesn't make sense from a rebuild standpoint, but it will be fun to watch without a stake in the outcome.
At the very least, I don't have to worry if Wade will be able to walk every time he hits the floor from drawing bullshit contact.