[TV] Iron Fist

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:52 pm

Almost as ridiculous as a blind guy that can sense everything around him, a dude with impenetrable skin, a super-strong flying woman and a hoser with an iron fist.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:07 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Almost as ridiculous as a blind guy that can sense everything around him, a dude with impenetrable skin, a super-strong flying woman and a hoser with an iron fist.

That's not the same thing. Those are written into the Marvel Universe as people with special abilities. Claire is a random nurse that apparently can take a few lessons punching a bag and then go up against trained assassins.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:56 pm

Moliere wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Almost as ridiculous as a blind guy that can sense everything around him, a dude with impenetrable skin, a super-strong flying woman and a hoser with an iron fist.
That's not the same thing. Those are written into the Marvel Universe as people with special abilities. Claire is a random nurse that apparently can take a few lessons punching a bag and then go up against trained assassins.

She could have been getting weapons training as well and was really good at it. But we'll never know because Danny Rand barged in on their lesson and totally was disrespectful of Colleen and her position as sensei when he insisted on having dinner instead of waiting. Disrespectful young punk.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:57 pm

Just finished episode 4. I'm enjoying the show, but it might be my least favorite of the Marvel Netflix series. These early episodes need some more action.

Spoiler:

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:00 pm

Daehawk wrote:Its not very popular that Ive seen.

First season review

Iron Fist is the weakest part of Iron Fist

Reviews /= Popularity

4.5 stars on Netflicks

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:01 pm

Moliere wrote:
$iljanus wrote:She was in some fighting scenes using what could be tiger claws holding her own... well at least not getting hurt which is good since she's needed to patch up the others.
Another ridiculous concept: that a nurse taking a few private lessons could hold her own against trained Hand assassins.

As i remember if, she got off one good surprise whack with the claws while the bad guy was fighting someone else, then was out of it. But I could be misremembering it.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:04 pm

GargoyleBoy wrote:why is she not teaching there instead of that crappy dojo?)[/spoiler]

Spoiler:

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:06 pm

Moliere wrote:Claire is a random nurse that apparently can take a few lessons punching a bag and then go up against trained assassins.

And you know how many lessons she's had how?

Not that I disagree with the general thrust of your point, but you dont' really know how much training she has undertaken

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:48 pm

Grifman wrote:
Daehawk wrote:Its not very popular that Ive seen.

First season review

Iron Fist is the weakest part of Iron Fist
Reviews /= Popularity

4.5 stars on Netflicks

Netflix stars are what Netflix thinks you'd rate it, not what others have rated it.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:53 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
Grifman wrote:
Daehawk wrote:Its not very popular that Ive seen.

First season review

Iron Fist is the weakest part of Iron Fist
Reviews /= Popularity

4.5 stars on Netflicks
Netflix stars are what Netflix thinks you'd rate it, not what others have rated it.

?! I did not know that. Now I'm pissed.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:02 pm

Explanation.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:06 pm

Well thats kinda silly. Just rate it and Ill choose if I want to see it based on a true rating .

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:49 pm

I'm also still early in the season. I watched ep 4 today.

I think I understand some of the fight criticisms. But I think it may have a lot to do with how the fights are filmed... like the hallway fight. Granted it's been a while, but I remember the DD fights as being fast and hectic. For some reason they have decided to use a lot of slo-mo for these fights. And some really odd camera angles (top down? wtf?). Maybe they think the slow motion fights "showcase" Danny's skills. But it seems to do the opposite. If the fights were moving fast, I feel like they would look better. It would also hide some of the imperfections. There were a couple of times in the hallway fight where you could easily see that he didn't even come close to hitting his opponent.

I'm having one more problem with the show. Well, besides the generally terrible dialogue. I guess I'll spoiler just in case.

Spoiler:

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:13 pm

The stars are also going away, to be replaced with thumbs.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:23 pm

Final episode. Danny's naivety reminds me of Zoolander. He's Derek Zoolander. His diction, the dialogue. The show just needs a big gasoline pump fight.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:39 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
Grifman wrote:
Daehawk wrote:Its not very popular that Ive seen.

First season review

Iron Fist is the weakest part of Iron Fist
Reviews /= Popularity

4.5 stars on Netflicks
Netflix stars are what Netflix thinks you'd rate it, not what others have rated it.
?! I did not know that. Now I'm pissed.

Interesting, I had no idea. Nevertheless, my original point still stands

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:15 am

So there's no way to know what Netflix viewers specifically think about Netflix content? If so, that is ridiculous, as well as confusing considering how universally star ratings correspond to a user review these days.

More on topic: I watched the first Ep. and it reminded me exactly of Arrow. Not just the ridiculously similar premise and characters, but the soap opera writing as well. Ugh.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:31 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:So there's no way to know what Netflix viewers specifically think about Netflix content?

IMDB users rate it a 7.8 out of 10.

More on topic: I watched the first Ep. and it reminded me exactly of Arrow. Not just the ridiculously similar premise and characters, but the soap opera writing as well. Ugh.

That's nonsense. The early episodes are far from perfect, but way better than Arrow. I enjoy the arrowverse shows, but the writing and acting is so bad I turn it off before the wife catches me watching it.

GargoyleBoy · Post by **GargoyleBoy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:08 am

Grifman wrote:
GargoyleBoy wrote:why is she not teaching there instead of that crappy dojo?)

Spoiler:
As it was pointed out the dojo was a recruiting tool to find out who was worthy to enter the Hand compound for further training. You don't just let anyone into your evil lair.

They made a big plot point of her

Spoiler:

It's just sloppy writing.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:39 am

msteelers wrote: That's nonsense. The early episodes are far from perfect, but way better than Arrow. I enjoy the arrowverse shows, but the writing and acting is so bad I turn it off before the wife catches me watching it.

Gotta agree with you. If it's on the CW, it's going to be targeted at teens first and foremost. I stuck with Arrow the first season, but dropped off after that due to that.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:56 am

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:07 am

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:40 pm

GargoyleBoy wrote:
Grifman wrote:
GargoyleBoy wrote:why is she not teaching there instead of that crappy dojo?)

Spoiler:
As it was pointed out the dojo was a recruiting tool to find out who was worthy to enter the Hand compound for further training. You don't just let anyone into your evil lair.
They made a big plot point of her
Spoiler:
not being able to afford rent, but the organization she works for can afford a palatial compound.
It's just sloppy writing.

But that's a different issue than the one you initially raised. You were moving the goal posts

GargoyleBoy · Post by **GargoyleBoy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Grifman wrote:
But that's a different issue than the one you initially raised. You were moving the goal posts

Just because I said the show was boring doesn't mean I can't have other problems with it also (like sloppy writing, which may have - GASP - contributed to it being boring).

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:14 pm

GargoyleBoy wrote:
Grifman wrote:
But that's a different issue than the one you initially raised. You were moving the goal posts
Just because I said the show was boring doesn't mean I can't have other problems with it also (like sloppy writing, which may have - GASP - contributed to it being boring).

Didn't say you can't have other problems, but when I point out that one of your problems isn't a problem, responding with another entirely separate argument/issue is irrelevant to the current discussion that we were having.

And btw, I don't think the series was all that great either

GargoyleBoy · Post by **GargoyleBoy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:55 pm

Grifman wrote:
GargoyleBoy wrote:
Grifman wrote:
But that's a different issue than the one you initially raised. You were moving the goal posts
Just because I said the show was boring doesn't mean I can't have other problems with it also (like sloppy writing, which may have - GASP - contributed to it being boring).
Didn't say you can't have other problems, but when I point out that one of your problems isn't a problem, responding with another entirely separate argument/issue is irrelevant to the current discussion that we were having.

And btw, I don't think the series was all that great either

I think you may need to go back and re-read what I wrote. Let me quote it for you:

Me wrote:
Spoiler:
A woman character written so clumsily that she goes from struggling dojo owner to Hand ninja with an entire compound available to her (why is she not teaching there instead of that crappy dojo?) whose own motivations are abandoned the moment Shaggy McTimberlake glances her way.

My problem with her is one of clumsy writing. No goalpost has been moved. My problem with this change in her motivations is not solved by an offhand comment that disregards the financial motivations she expressed in earlier episodes. Nor is my problem of her motivations being later abandoned solved at any point. As I said before, it's sloppy writing.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:50 pm

GargoyleBoy wrote:
Grifman wrote:
GargoyleBoy wrote:
Grifman wrote:
But that's a different issue than the one you initially raised. You were moving the goal posts
Just because I said the show was boring doesn't mean I can't have other problems with it also (like sloppy writing, which may have - GASP - contributed to it being boring).
Didn't say you can't have other problems, but when I point out that one of your problems isn't a problem, responding with another entirely separate argument/issue is irrelevant to the current discussion that we were having.

And btw, I don't think the series was all that great either
I think you may need to go back and re-read what I wrote. Let me quote it for you:

Me wrote:
Spoiler:
A woman character written so clumsily that she goes from struggling dojo owner to Hand ninja with an entire compound available to her (why is she not teaching there instead of that crappy dojo?) whose own motivations are abandoned the moment Shaggy McTimberlake glances her way.
My problem with her is one of clumsy writing. No goalpost has been moved. My problem with this change in her motivations is not solved by an offhand comment that disregards the financial motivations she expressed in earlier episodes. Nor is my problem of her motivations being later abandoned solved at any point. As I said before, it's sloppy writing.

And I think you need to go back and look at my response and the part of your quote that I was responding to. I was not responding to your entire charge of sloppy writing. I was responding to your dojo example and only that

Nothing more, nothing less. That example does not support your charge, other things might but I wasn't talking about them.

GargoyleBoy · Post by **GargoyleBoy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:13 pm

Grifman wrote:That example does not support your charge

That is your opinion. I do not share it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:18 pm

Man, the writing in this thread is nearly as bad as on the show.

GargoyleBoy · Post by **GargoyleBoy** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:20 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Man, the writing in this thread is nearly as bad as on the show.

That is your opinion. I do not share it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:23 pm

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:53 pm

hepcat wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
Daredevil could kick Danny Rand's ass six ways from Sunday, which I believe is a problem given the supposed nature of Iron Fist. Granted, in this show he's still learning. But if he's that nascent of a fighter, why is he already the sole possible guardian of the path to K'un Lun?
Yeah, I was watching the season 2 opener for Into the Badlands last night, and a character called The Widow essentially shamed the entire first season of Iron Fist in a single, 5 minute fight scene.

Watching the season 2 Badlands opener now and next season they either have to get the actor playing Rand better fight training if that's the problem and/or fire the fight choreographer and get better camera shots.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:09 am

For Iron Fist, they should just hire one of the Hong Kong martial art choreographer. Don't have to the be the top one just about anyone that have experienced in making HK martial art movie can probably do better than what they have.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:35 am

Overall, I enjoyed the show. I think the criticisms of sloppy writing, poor fight choreography, boring plot, too much time spent on the Meachems, and the character being underwhelming are all valid. Despite that I liked it. Not as good as DD, LC, or JJ but I liked it.

For me, the biggest issue with the show is the actor playing Rand. He's okay as an actor. He does not, in any way at all, look like a great martial artist who has focused on training all day, every day, for 10+ years. I understand that Kung Fu practitioners are not going to look like Wolverine. That said, they also shouldn't look like Daniel Tosh. Every time they show him without his shirt it's like he's in a posedown for Mr Olympia. LOOK AT MY ABS WHEN I FLEX. Just stop. It's like they cast him, told him he needed to get into shape, and then he went to burger king. He doesn't have to be big but he should at least look like he's been training in martial arts. Even the touched up photos of him look soft. Half the kids on my son's middle school wrestling team are more cut. I would not be at all disappointed if they changed actors.

Please keep Jessica Henwick, though. Actually, just make her the Iron Fist.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:54 am

Watched the "challenge" episode last night. God. Please make it stop. Ugh.

It started out okay. They sped up the fight scenes, which helped make things look a bit better. It's a shame that they also went the DD route of filming in the dark. It hides mistakes, but it also hides half the action.

The dialogue was still horrible. But the story is just making me sick. It's beyond stupid. He acts/fights like someone that is just learning. I thought he already *is* the Iron Fist? How come he fights like he's still in training? And the conversations in his head were really damn annoying. I hope they get rid of those fast.

I'd initially hoped things were improving, but then they went downhill fast. Not happy.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:54 pm

TheMix wrote: How come he fights like he's still in training?

The actor:

I was learning the fight scenes 15 minutes before we actually shot them because the schedule was so tight. So 15 minutes before the stunt director would talk me through the choreography and I’d just jump straight into it.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:38 pm

Yeah, definitely not the best of the Marvel series on Netflix, but I still enjoyed it. It did have a problem trying to figure out what it was. IMHO, it should have gone all in on the conspiracy angles and become a conspiracy themed series with more mysticism. Instead, it kind of bounced around a bit aimlessly, and wasted some of its characters (e.g. Joy and Al). Additionally, the end(?) was a bit tacked on, and rather than leading into Iron Fist 2, it should have been leading into and setting up the Defenders better. They also should have shown us the final boss villain's body at the end. It seems like a fair assumption that they wouldn't screw up the villain's final end, but they should have confirmed it to the viewer with a death shot prior to the crematorium scene.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:20 pm

AWS260 wrote:
TheMix wrote: How come he fights like he's still in training?
The actor:
I was learning the fight scenes 15 minutes before we actually shot them because the schedule was so tight. So 15 minutes before the stunt director would talk me through the choreography and I’d just jump straight into it.

So it probably wasn't intentional? Every time he gets punched, kicked, thrown around I find myself going "he's supposed to be the #1 martial artist in the universe?????". Ha, maybe in another 15 years....

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:14 am

Just finished it. It really wasn't bad. It just wasn't especially good, and fell into the now predictable Marvel Netflix TV formula. The plotting is at times manic, and I sometimes have a hard time remembering people's allegiances, episode to episode. And that should not be an issue with serial, 13-episode storytelling that I'm imbibing, on average, one episode per day.

While I've had similar issues with the other Marvel Netflix series, this one lacked the high points that the other shows have had (e.g. for me personally: the first half of Luke Cage, the second half of Daredevil's 2nd season, the majority of Jessica Jones). The closest thing for me here was the 80s action movie "feeling" best demonstrated in episode two, but few of the series events and reveals truly resonated. Though the overall character arcs, while predictable, were fairly well done in my opinion. Iron Fist is entirely watchable and a must-see for completionists heading into The Defenders... it's just kind of bland.

Spoiler:

First "last" impressions (I'm probably wrong on some of the story stuff... I haven't read this thread in detail or looked up the series online yet):

- Harold said it best during the rooftop fight: "Without the iron fist, you're just another screwed up kid". Only, the iron fist ain't all that interesting at this point, either.

- I actually didn't mind the main character that much. He's kind of what you'd expect from a kid orphaned at a young age, raised outside of modern society. He just, perhaps, isn't what people want at this stage in the larger Marvel Netflix tale. Hopefully the writers are playing the long game and season 2's Danny has matured significantly. We really need a couple of in-universe years to pass, IMO.

- I don't really buy that Joy wants Danny dead all of a sudden?

- Ward and Harold were predictable and generic, but also well executed and the actors were great. I'm disappointed that Harold transformed into the big bad and had a fairly trite endgame (including "Shinzoning" himself), but then, these series "final bosses" are rarely their best villains with the exception of Kingpin in Daredevil S1 and Killgrave in Jessica Jones. And that's not a bad thing in principle... if done right it can subvert expectations. But here it wasn't, and it doesn't.

- Colleen is just fantastic, even after her secret is revealed. I think that arc was overly compressed and could have been written better, however. I really did want to see a grey-area Hand splinter cell. I didn't buy that "Bakugan" (or whatever the hell his name was) all of a sudden wanted her dead--though that revelation was of course necessary to break The Hand's spell over her. Again, overly compressed.

- I really have no idea what The Hand is at this point, other than a shadowy bad-guy organization. And I don't think that's what Marvel wanted. At the end Daredevil S2 they were truly menacing and mysterious, drawing inspiration from weird fiction/horror.

- For better or worse, it seems to have been established that everyone has the potential to come back from the dead in the Iron Fist world... at least where The Hand is concerned. I know that's comic book shtick, but it's kind of tiring if it becomes an ongoing thing.

Edit:
- I don't have the problem with Claire that a lot of other people in this thread do, now that I've gone back and read it. I think her appearances in these series are actually doing a good job of developing the character and showing her gradual training. While I feel like Iron Fist may have used her too much, she was the much-needed foil for Danny/Colleen's midseason adventures.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:21 am

$iljanus wrote: [...]
Edit:
Halfway mark and hoping that the Kingpin comes and kills everyone except Homeless Al but that ain't happening.

Edit 2:
Around 48 mins in. Sonofabitch! I liked that guy.

Seriously, right?! I thought he'd be around for a few episodes, at least.

GargoyleBoy wrote:Exposition was unnecessarily repetitive. (I swear if I see
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
that plane crash
ONE MORE TIME).

+1000. It's like a four-hour director's cut of Batman Begins in which Bruce Wayne flashes back to his parents getting shot or falling down the well every five minutes. "I love you Danny...."