Fun car suggestions

[DaHowie]

Another

[Kraken]

Fast-forward a year. I still haven't found any cars I like as well as my Miata, so I quit kidding myself and decided to get another Miata. After comparing trim levels, I decided on the Club edition, preferably in red (even though that unaccountably costs an extra $300). I would accept black as my second choice. I'm mildly tempted to go up to the GT, merely because it comes in blue, but that's hardly worth the extra $1200 base price.

Call me old-fashioned; I would still like to see one up close, and ideally drive it, before dropping that kind of money. So a couple of days ago I searched for a manual Club in red. Number within a 100-mile radius? Zero. In black? One.

If I consider Sport and GT models I can find seven more cars within 100 miles...but those aren't what I want. And none of the GTs are blue anyway.

The notion that I could swing by my local Miata dealer and compare models is a fantasy. I'm about to hunt down that black one and see if I can set up an appointment to drive it. I'll even widen my search to white or gray if I can conveniently drive one, even though I won't buy one in those colors.

This is going to be a lot more difficult than I had expected.

[McNutt]

I test drove a Miata with a retractable hardtop a few months ago (my FIL was considering getting one). It had a manual transmission and was a true joy to drive. You can pay a lot more for cars, but I doubt you'll have much more fun driving it over the Miata.

[coopasonic]

Black and red 2016 clubs and a black 2017 about 10 miles northeast another black 2017 about 10 miles northwest.

Mazda is a lower volume manufacturer. Miatas are niche cars and even more niche for the northeast.

[Kraken]

I test drove a Miata with a retractable hardtop a few months ago (my FIL was considering getting one). It had a manual transmission and was a true joy to drive. You can pay a lot more for cars, but I doubt you'll have much more fun driving it over the Miata.

How is the visibility? The top doesn't actually go all the way down, right? I don't think I'd like that (and the base price is nearly $3k over the Club...not necessarily a showstopper, but I'd have to REALLY want it to spend that much more). I'm more likely to drop down to a Sport than to move up to a RF.

The corporate site's car-finder appears to be pretty worthless; it told me that my preferred dealer (where I bought my current car) has three manual Clubs in stock; they actually have only one, and it's an automatic. And it's white (barf).

I imagine that dealers swap cars back and forth, and I'm not in a particular hurry, so getting the car I actually want shouldn't be too much of an ordeal. The hard part is going to be finding one that I can test drive before I order. I want to know how it compares to my Speed and I want to see the options package in action.

Black and red 2016 clubs and a black 2017 about 10 miles northeast another black 2017 about 10 miles northwest.

Mazda is a lower volume manufacturer. Miatas are niche cars and even more niche for the northeast.

There are at least a few Sports in my area, but Clubs and GTs are very scarce. This is going to be more work than I wanted to put into it.

[McNutt]

How is the visibility? The top doesn't actually go all the way down, right? I don't think I'd like that (and the base price is nearly $3k over the Club...not necessarily a showstopper, but I'd have to REALLY want it to spend that much more). I'm more likely to drop down to a Sport than to move up to a RF.

I don't remember visibility being an issue. The top of the roof goes back and into the trunk with the press of a button. This is what it looks like after:

[Kraken]

Does the roof take up trunk space? I don't like the idea of those pillars always being there, but maybe you'd get used to them. Do they provide roll protection?

I'm going to Mazda Gallery tomorrow to drive a Sport -- I assume the Sport and Club handle identically, so I will be able to determine whether they can match my good old Speed or will feel too underpowered in comparison...and therefore whether I'm going to go with another Miata or rethink this whole thing. The one thing the Fiata has going for it is turbocharging.

They have a red Club with the Brembo package on the way already, and can get a base Club if that's what I want. I am not inclined to pay an extra $3400 for the Brembo so they'd need to knock that price way down to make it a contender. They also have some RFs in stock, and those aren't ridiculously more than the Club, so I'll at least look at one.

I don't intend to actually buy a car tomorrow, but I should have a good grasp on my options by the end of the day. Ideally I'd like to make my decisions and hammer out a deal next week with an eye toward delivery by the end of the month, assuming the test drive passes muster.

[McNutt]

Yes it takes up trunk space and yes they provide roll support.
The trunk is not large.

[geezer]

1 Hardtop doesn't take up any more space than the soft top.

2 some people have problems with the airflow around the buttresses at highway speeds. Test drive top down before buying for sure

3. Don't bother with the brembo/wheels package unless you love the look. The difference in performance won't be noticiple on the street.

4. If you search out of your area there are killer deals on leftover 2016 models to be had.

[infinitelurker]

My fun car search has continued all this time as well, with my original space requirement and the ability to carry 4 adults (so it can be my only car) now being added to the mix.

Unfortunately, since I don't want a Mustang or a Camaro, this has led me to the Audi S5 Cabriolet. While I love the tech with that vehicle, the sticker shock has me enjoying my current 12 year old non-fun ride more every day.

[Covenant72]

My fun car search has continued all this time as well, with my original space requirement and the ability to carry 4 adults (so it can be my only car) now being added to the mix.

Unfortunately, since I don't want a Mustang or a Camaro, this has led me to the Audi S5 Cabriolet. While I love the tech with that vehicle, the sticker shock has me enjoying my current 12 year old non-fun ride more every day.

Check out the Infiniti Q50; I picked up a fantastic deal last year on the used market and love it to death. Very fun to drive, has 4 doors, decent trunk space, and AWD so it handles fine in the winter.

[coopasonic]

I don't think there is a Q50 convertible... and they stopped making the Q60 convertible, though you might find one used.

[Kraken]

Well, that was a productive afternoon.

I am pleased that the Miata DNA is still intact after 13 years. Even the base Sport model delivers very satisfying performance. I had feared that my turbocharged Speed might have spoiled me, but in fact I rarely keep the RPMs high enough to use the turbo anyway so I don't think I'm going to miss it...much. The Sport still has plenty of pep for everyday driving.

The Club, it turns out, has a stiffened suspension* that delivers a bouncy ride similar to my Speed ("you can feel the road" is the polite way of putting it). The Sport's ride was much smoother, which felt nice, but it wallows a bit when I corner as hard as I'm used to doing. The GT has the Sport's soft suspension with all the Club's bells and whistles (and a few more beside). So if I want that soft comfy ride I'm going to have to go with a GT; only the Club has the performance ride that I'm used to.

The dealer can get just about any car I want in a week or two. There's a $1000 "customer cash" offer that I didn't know about, in addition to the $500 "loyalty discount" that I did know about, in addition to "whatever we can do between invoice and sticker," as the salesman offered without prompting. So it's going to come in at least $1000 under what I expected and probably a little better. We can't get down to the nitty gritty until I commit to a particular car, though.

Over the weekend I need to decide between the (comparatively) high-performance Club and the more comfortable Sport (which is a little bare-bones in features) or GT (which will be harder to get and more expensive, but is inexplicably the only Miata that comes in blue). On Monday I'll deliver my verdict and they'll try to procure the appropriate car, and then we get down to brass tacks. It's a pretty good bet that I'll have a new Miata by the end of the month, though.

The only disappointment was their trade-in offer. I had budgeted a minimum of $4000 based on my vehicle's accident history and extensive rust -- it's had a lot of body work done and needs more. They only offered $3500, citing the body rust. But the salesman implied that they might possibly come up to my minimum since it's "a rare car" (only about 5,000 Speeds were ever made for the US market and some consider it a collector's item). I honestly don't think I could sell it myself for very much more than $4000 for those same reasons, so I'll go with the convenience of trading if they will come up to the $4000 that I had budgeted. From talking about it, I don't think the dealer's aware of all the undercarriage rust.

*For you car guys, that means:

Sport tuned suspension with Bilstein shock absorbers
Front and rear stabilizer bars
Limited slip differential
Front shock tower brace
...and 17" wheels instead of 16".

[McNutt]

Awesome!

[Pyperkub]

My fun car search has continued all this time as well, with my original space requirement and the ability to carry 4 adults (so it can be my only car) now being added to the mix.

Unfortunately, since I don't want a Mustang or a Camaro, this has led me to the Audi S5 Cabriolet. While I love the tech with that vehicle, the sticker shock has me enjoying my current 12 year old non-fun ride more every day.

I wouldn't consider either the Mustang or Camaro a 4-seater for adults in the back for anything more than about a 15 minute drive. Unless those are adult midgets...

[Kraken]

Biggest problem right now is deciding which model I really want. I'm going to be waffling on this all weekend. They each have their attractions. There aren't any bad options or wrong decisions here, but I hate having to collapse probability waves and cut off alternatives. I want to take the best features from all of them, dammit.

I especially like the redesigned roof latch. You really can raise it with one hand without turning around now.

I'm a little miffed that cigarette lighters and ashtrays are extinct, but that's just another downside of living in this fucked up timeline.

[em2nought]

It really is an awesome looking targa in pewter.

[wonderpug]

Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread, but what made you rule out the Fiat?

[Kraken]

(A) I don't like the styling, and (B) why buy a Miata-wannabe when you can have a Miata? I have 13 years of positive experience with Mazda, whereas Fiat's reputation is rather sketchy.

I still haven't quite decided between the Sport and the Club. I don't really need the Club's enhanced suspension, which is really designed for serious competitive driving; the Sport is a more comfy ride but still plenty responsive. And I found out yesterday that the Club comes with high-performance summer tires. If I'm going to drive it year-round (and I am), I would have to either buy a set of snowies and swap wheels twice a year, as I've gotten thoroughly sick of doing over the past 13 years, or I'd have to replace them with all-season tires at a cost of at least $400 and probably more. The Sport, OTOH, comes with all-season tires. So now I'm leaning toward the Sport. Still reluctant to pass up some of the Club's body and interior enhancements, though -- the Sport is quite minimalist when it comes to tech gadgets.

The GT shares the Sport's softer suspension, but it also comes with the summer tires so I'd have to solve that, and it adds more bells and whistles that aren't really worth an extra $1200 to me. Really, the Club's trim level is just right. What I want is a Club with Sport suspension and tires...which doesn't exist.

So right now I'm still going back and forth between the Club and the Sport, with the advantage currently going to the Sport, albeit kind of reluctantly.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, I trust Japanese cars more than any other, still (at least for reliability). Fiat was crap when I was growing up, and while I do see more of them, I don't trust them at all.

[Kraken]

My Miata has been rock-solid reliable and I still love driving it. I'd keep it for many more years if it weren't rusting away on me.

I'm also having a mini-dilemma over colors. 2017 Miatas only come in white, black, gray, other gray, and red (for an extra $300). Fully 90% of the vehicles on the road are one of those non-colors and I've always objected to them on that basis. Of the remainder, about 5% are red, blue just barely moves the needle, and all other colors make up maybe 1-2% collectively. So red seems like a no-brainer.

I've grown rather enamored of black, though, and have been thinking about making a change. The only thing that keeps me coming back to red is visibility. My bright red car is already nearly invisible to most other drivers...I can imagine how much harder to see a black one would be. So, red.

[geezer]

(A) I don't like the styling, and (B) why buy a Miata-wannabe when you can have a Miata? I have 13 years of positive experience with Mazda, whereas Fiat's reputation is rather sketchy.

I still haven't quite decided between the Sport and the Club. I don't really need the Club's enhanced suspension, which is really designed for serious competitive driving; the Sport is a more comfy ride but still plenty responsive. And I found out yesterday that the Club comes with high-performance summer tires. If I'm going to drive it year-round (and I am), I would have to either buy a set of snowies and swap wheels twice a year, as I've gotten thoroughly sick of doing over the past 13 years, or I'd have to replace them with all-season tires at a cost of at least $400 and probably more. The Sport, OTOH, comes with all-season tires. So now I'm leaning toward the Sport. Still reluctant to pass up some of the Club's body and interior enhancements, though -- the Sport is quite minimalist when it comes to tech gadgets.

The GT shares the Sport's softer suspension, but it also comes with the summer tires so I'd have to solve that, and it adds more bells and whistles that aren't really worth an extra $1200 to me. Really, the Club's trim level is just right. What I want is a Club with Sport suspension and tires...which doesn't exist.

So right now I'm still going back and forth between the Club and the Sport, with the advantage currently going to the Sport, albeit kind of reluctantly.

If I were using the car for my full time, year 'round transportation in New England, I'd definitely want the LSD on the Club model.

[McNutt]

Have you ever owned a black car? They look great when washed and worse than any other color two days later.

[Kraken]

If I were using the car for my full time, year 'round transportation in New England, I'd definitely want the LSD on the Club model.

There is a lengthy argument about that on the miata.net forums. I concluded that I am unlikely to notice very much difference because I don't intend to drive this car on slippery roads. Wife's Fit sits idle 98% of the time since she commutes by T now, so I'll drive that when the weather's vile and bring my Miata out only when the roads are clear. I've only put 45,000 miles on my car in 13 years and I can't imagine myself ever having a daily commute again, so "full time" transportation doesn't really apply to me. I don't actually even need a car of my own. This is a luxury, and it can spend a lot of the winter sitting in the garage.

This is the same reason I think all-season tires will be adequate. I really want to break the routine of having to swap my wheels twice a year. The older I get, the more I hate that chore (I do it in my driveway with a jack and a lug wrench.) I don't think running summer tires all year is a good plan, though.

I'm probably dwelling unduly on this tire question. An $800 set of tires shouldn't define a $25,000 vehicle purchase. And yet, having to either immediately replace the tires on a brand new car or keep on doing the ol' seasonal swap rubs me the wrong way. If I need to buy tires/wheels, their cost will have to reduce my down payment.

Have you ever owned a black car? They look great when washed and worse than any other color two days later.

No I haven't. I do know that black is considered the most durable paint and the easiest color to match should body work ever be necessary; red is the hardest color to match, as my somewhat piebald car demonstrates. The visibility issue concerns me more.

[em2nought]

I'm also having a mini-dilemma over colors. 2017 Miatas only come in white, black, gray, other gray, and red (for an extra $300). Fully 90% of the vehicles on the road are one of those non-colors and I've always objected to them on that basis. Of the remainder, about 5% are red, blue just barely moves the needle, and all other colors make up maybe 1-2% collectively.

I can't believe they don't have a market for "British racing green" with the Miata.

[coopasonic]

I'm also having a mini-dilemma over colors. 2017 Miatas only come in white, black, gray, other gray, and red (for an extra $300). Fully 90% of the vehicles on the road are one of those non-colors and I've always objected to them on that basis. Of the remainder, about 5% are red, blue just barely moves the needle, and all other colors make up maybe 1-2% collectively.

I can't believe they don't have a market for "British racing green" with the Miata.

Yeah, similarly, Honda is doing a Civic Type R and it is only available in boring colors. It has a ridiculous pile of aero stuff stuck to it, but it's available in white, red, blue, black and gray. It is a $34,000, 300 horse power honda civic. Where's the lime green and the eye-searing yellow? Freaking Honda.

[Kraken]

Scuttlebutt on miata.net says that the 2018s will offer a bigger range of colors. Historically, I've owned blue, brown, green, orange, and red cars...I'd like to see earthtones make a comeback.

They will also have backup cameras, as those become required in 2018.

The 2018s go into production in October and won't reach showrooms until early next year. I can't cripple my current car through another winter, though. The body is getting close to rusting through.

I'd really like to force a decision within the next day or two so that I can take delivery in time to join Wife on a short trip to the Berkshires at the end of the month. The exact car that I want doesn't exist. As of this morning I'm leaning back toward getting a Club and just sucking it up and replacing the tires. That could be my negotiating point. Might have to go look at the Sport again first. When I test-drove it I was evaluating the ride and handling rather than features because I didn't think it was in contention.

It's my first new car in 13 years and might be the last one I'll ever buy, so I need to be at peace with my decision.

[wonderpug]

I imagine you'd have no trouble at all selling the summer tires on craigslist or whatever for a fair price.

[Kraken]

I need to lay out the pros and cons of each model, relative to the others, for my own reference. Let's see if this exercise helps clarify things.

SPORT:

Pro: Softer suspension for smoother ride
Pro: All-weather tires
Pro: Substantially cheaper; I could finance 48 months instead of 60 for the same monthly payment as a Club
Pro: Doesn't have that ugly "shark fin" satellite radio nub on the trunk

Neutral: No touchscreen

Con: 16" aluminum alloy wheels instead of 17"
Con: Standard daytime running lights already look dated
Con: No blind spot/rear cross-traffic monitoring
Con: Cheap no-name stereo (6 speakers vs 9) does not even display name of current song/artist
Con: Generally cheaper-looking interior (no red stitching, no accent panels, less chrome trim, etc)


CLUB:

Pro: blind spot/rear cross-traffic warnings
Pro: less-comfy suspension provides better control, esp. in bad weather
Pro: 17" black aluminum alloy wheels
Pro: LED daytime running lights are all the rage these days
Pro: 9-speaker Bose stereo with fancy radio options (that I probably wouldn't use)
Pro: Generally nicer interior

Neutral: Touchscreen with some unnecessary but semi-cool functions. Touch control only works when car is stopped. Navigation can be added for $400. Android functionality to mirror your phone screen is coming at a date and price TBD. Don't know if that will be retro-compatible.

Con: Stiff suspension is less comfortable
Con: Summer tires need immediate replacement
Con: Substantially more expensive; need to finance 60 months
Con: Ugly "shark fin" on trunk


GT:

Pro: Has the softer Sport suspension for the ride I prefer
Pro: 17" dark silver aluminum alloy wheels
Pro: Leather-trimmed interior
Pro: Touchscreen includes navigation system.

Neutral: Lots of premium features I don't care about, such as auto on/off headlights, heated sideview mirror, heated seats, automatic climate control, etc.

Con: Summer tires need immediate replacement
Con: A lot more expensive than the Sport (fully $100/mo for 60 mo), moderately more than a Club ($35/mo for 60 mo), mainly for options I don't want.


BOTTOM LINE:

I can rule out the GT, but I'd already mostly done that.

The Sport has a better ride, road-ready tires, and a much more appealing price, but it feels stripped down in amenities. I'm especially disappointed in the stereo system (which could be replaced, but would I really?).

The Club has more features and just feels like overall higher quality, but the ride is less comfy, I'd have to replace the tires, and it costs substantially more ($70/mo for 60 mo by my calculations).

After all that, I still don't feel any closer to deciding. I think I'm going to have to go back to Mazda and see what my gut tells me, because my head is being useless here. (edit) Updated info about the stereo and display screen definitely tip me toward the Club.

[mori]

If I were using the car for my full time, year 'round transportation in New England, I'd definitely want the LSD on the Club model.

There is a lengthy argument about that on the miata.net forums. I concluded that I am unlikely to notice very much difference because I don't intend to drive this car on slippery roads. Wife's Fit sits idle 98% of the time since she commutes by T now, so I'll drive that when the weather's vile and bring my Miata out only when the roads are clear. I've only put 45,000 miles on my car in 13 years and I can't imagine myself ever having a daily commute again, so "full time" transportation doesn't really apply to me. I don't actually even need a car of my own. This is a luxury, and it can spend a lot of the winter sitting in the garage.

This is the same reason I think all-season tires will be adequate. I really want to break the routine of having to swap my wheels twice a year. The older I get, the more I hate that chore (I do it in my driveway with a jack and a lug wrench.) I don't think running summer tires all year is a good plan, though.

I'm probably dwelling unduly on this tire question. An $800 set of tires shouldn't define a $25,000 vehicle purchase. And yet, having to either immediately replace the tires on a brand new car or keep on doing the ol' seasonal swap rubs me the wrong way. If I need to buy tires/wheels, their cost will have to reduce my down payment.

Have you ever owned a black car? They look great when washed and worse than any other color two days later.

No I haven't. I do know that black is considered the most durable paint and the easiest color to match should body work ever be necessary; red is the hardest color to match, as my somewhat piebald car demonstrates. The visibility issue concerns me more.

My thoughts on your tire situation.

If you do not have to drive your Miata in the winter, keep the summer tires and don't drive it. That is what I have done with my GTO since I bought it in 2005. I am just not a fan of all-season (really no-season) tires, especially on a RWD sport cars. Shitty dry performance and inadequate grip in snow.

[Kraken]

I wonder if I could just use my old 16" Alpins. Those rusty steel wheels would look like crap, and I'd be stuck with swapping wheels seasonally again, but I'd get out of it for free.

Kinda reluctant to simply bench my car for 4-5 months out of the year.

The latest info about the crappy radio in the Sport is pushing me more strongly into the Club camp. Salesman says the android update will be available retroactively, although a hardware upgrade might be necessary (probably expensive since they want $400 just to enable navi). That's a good argument for wanting that screen, even if it's of dubious utility initially.

[Kraken]

If you do not have to drive your Miata in the winter, keep the summer tires and don't drive it. That is what I have done with my GTO since I bought it in 2005. I am just not a fan of all-season (really no-season) tires, especially on a RWD sport cars. Shitty dry performance and inadequate grip in snow.

Multiple miata.net users highly recommend Continental DWS 06 Ultra High Performance all-season tires. Tire Rack has a set of four for $413 after rebate. They get great reviews there, too. So I think I can solve this dilemma without spending a fortune or noticeably sacrificing performance in day-to-day driving. And I now have a solid $500 negotiating point on top of the $1500 in automatic discounts. I have been teasing this salesman for a week, so I think he'll quickly give up $500 when I'm ready to pitch hardball. There's also an unresolved disagreement about the value of my trade-in.

Going to look at the cars again tomorrow and taking Wife with me this time for a second opinion, but I'm already about 85% sure that I'm going to order a Club and start price negotiations either late Thursday or first thing Friday.

[Kraken]

Probably to nobody's surprise, I just committed to a red Club. Now the negotiations begin. Since my negotiating position is weak, I will be satisfied if they bring my trade-in value up $500 to the minimum I had considered acceptable, and drop the sticker price by $500 to allow for the replacement tires I'll need to buy. Any deal better than that would be gravy.

[McNutt]

Were you able to get a manual transmission?

[Kraken]

Were you able to get a manual transmission?

I assume that's a joke since I would never consider an automatic.

Salesman says there are two cars matching my spec in NY, so he can probably get one of them in short order. Price negotiations have begun.

[Kraken]

Haggling is fun when you can do it by email. I'm way better in writing than I am verbally. Almost done.

[Kraken]

And boom, we're there. I'm getting my red Club (sticker 29,805) for 27,419, plus $649 in bullshit dealer fees. I got them to drop it from 27,619 to partially offset those. That means I'll be paying 28,163 before trade-in. Kelley says "The Fair Market Range for this car in your area is $27,907 - $28,930" with a median of 28,419 so that's just about exactly right.

They did come up to my $4000 demand for my trade, so that reduces the taxable amount to 24,163. With a 7500 down payment I'm only financing 16,663 (plus tax and registry fees)...by my calculations that will come in right around $350/mo for 60 mos. I had budgeted $365.

Yay me. Hope to have the car by the end of next week. And o yes, I will post pictures.

[McNutt]

Rock!

[The Meal]

Very nice.

[Z-Corn]

Nice!

I hope it smells new...