Yeah, the Gandalf scene was awesome. But I find this to be a crap comparison.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 11:57 amI find that ridiculous. Everyone knew Galdalf eventually defeats the Balrog, but it was still awesome.GuidoTKP wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:54 pmScalzi nails it exactly.
I'm looking forward to Deadpool 2. I think it will deliver what its fans want.Spoiler:When I read that people left the theater crying, I'm just thinking "Are you stupid?" "Are you five?" That whole movie is written, structured and presented as if the last act matters. As if there was real gravitas to the moment where Thanos ends half of creation. For that to work, you the audience have to believe that half the people in the universe died and will stay dead. Anyone half paying attention knows that's not the case. Spiderman isn't dead. Black Panther isn't dead. Peter Quill, Gamora, Drax, Gru, and Mants aren't dead. There's a time stone. There was a plan when Dr. Strange handed off the time stone. None of this is going to stick. And that's a problem. Because that left me feeling like I only saw half a movie with no consequences. I had no emotional response to Peter saying he doesn't want to go, because immediately, in the back of my mind, I answered him. Don't worry kid, this is only temporary. They kind of jumped the shark structurally. Thanos is too close to omnipotent. It kind of makes the whole thing boring and you're just sort of waiting for the cleverness to arrive and unwind the plot. I think you can get away with that trick if the movie is self contained and the whole thing resolves by the end. But being asked to believe what I'm seeing and then to hold that thought for a year before Part 2 comes out, when I know the whole thing was bullshit, was pretty unsatisfying.
Spoiler:
FotR didn't ask me to believe Gandalf died. That moment had power regardless of whether he died or not. He was willing to make the sacrifice, he made the sacrifice, he ultimately paid a high price, and ... most importantly from a structural standpoint ... Gandalf's sacrifice comes at the end of Act 2. Thus, there is an entire third act for you to watch the rest of the Fellowship react to the loss, grow from the loss, find their own way after the loss of their leader. In other words, Gandalf's sacrifice isn't cheapened by him ultimately surviving the fight with the Balrog, because his loss drives the Fellowship to an amazing third act, where Frodo realizes he has to go it alone, Boromir figures out how to get the fuck out of his own way and become the hero the world needs, and Aragorn has to face that the training wheels are off and it's now up to him to figure out how to become the leader his people need.
My problem with A:IS is that we see none of that play out. I expect consequences will be covered in Avengers 4, but that simply points to this being an incomplete film experience. Because the snap comes at the end of the movie, it's structured to have gravitas because *gasp* Thanos won! It's cheap because everyone should know he didn't win. Maybe Avengers 4 will make the whole thing hold together, but I hate walking out at the end of half a movie. The call back to Lord of the Rings is pretty great, because that's an example of long-form story that works in pieces and collectively. The Harry Potter movies nail this as well. I don't think A:IS works that well on its own and we won't really know how well it works until Avengers 4.
People have also called back to the Empire Strikes Back. Again, TESB never asks us to believe Han is dead. The scene works as an obstacle that you know the rebels will have to overcome in the next movie, as opposed to trying to extract emotional weight from "Holy shit, Han died!!!!!" But the end of A:IS is all about "Holy shit, Spiderman died! Black Panther died! Most of the Guardians died! Oh no oh no oh no!" If that's the feeling you're going for (and I get that they are translating a classic arc from the comics) then you can't kill off characters that have sequels in production and expect me to believe their deaths for even one second.
AI:S works as spectacle for me. A lot of the scenes look cool. A lot of the humor works (although, I find Tony and Dr. Strange to be pretty 2 dimensional, which kind of weighs down their portion of the movie) but like the problems faced by most Superman movies, once the scale of the conflict grows to God levels of destruction, it's hard to have any emotional connection to the plot. Making this movie work on its own was a difficult task and I don't think the Russos nailed it.
My problem with A:IS is that we see none of that play out. I expect consequences will be covered in Avengers 4, but that simply points to this being an incomplete film experience. Because the snap comes at the end of the movie, it's structured to have gravitas because *gasp* Thanos won! It's cheap because everyone should know he didn't win. Maybe Avengers 4 will make the whole thing hold together, but I hate walking out at the end of half a movie. The call back to Lord of the Rings is pretty great, because that's an example of long-form story that works in pieces and collectively. The Harry Potter movies nail this as well. I don't think A:IS works that well on its own and we won't really know how well it works until Avengers 4.
People have also called back to the Empire Strikes Back. Again, TESB never asks us to believe Han is dead. The scene works as an obstacle that you know the rebels will have to overcome in the next movie, as opposed to trying to extract emotional weight from "Holy shit, Han died!!!!!" But the end of A:IS is all about "Holy shit, Spiderman died! Black Panther died! Most of the Guardians died! Oh no oh no oh no!" If that's the feeling you're going for (and I get that they are translating a classic arc from the comics) then you can't kill off characters that have sequels in production and expect me to believe their deaths for even one second.
AI:S works as spectacle for me. A lot of the scenes look cool. A lot of the humor works (although, I find Tony and Dr. Strange to be pretty 2 dimensional, which kind of weighs down their portion of the movie) but like the problems faced by most Superman movies, once the scale of the conflict grows to God levels of destruction, it's hard to have any emotional connection to the plot. Making this movie work on its own was a difficult task and I don't think the Russos nailed it.
