Net Worth

[RunningMn9]

I'll be doing the bookkeeping. I don't want to, but someone has to and I have more of an affinity for it than her. She does read a lot so I may point her at the theory, which is almost non-existent for her right now.

Thanks for the warning on keeping up to date. As with anything that takes discipline, staying on top of things is the only way I can keep at it. I'll probably post how things go as time goes on.

My plan is to simply record for a month or so, analyze, create a budget and move on from there.

Just keeping track of the spending would be a huge step in the right direction. We don't even do that currently.

First things first - have her read this.

A couple of things that I don't say to discourage you, but simply so you know in advance:

1) If you are doing the bookkeeping, you've already lost. If she won't use the tool, she'll continue to do what she did to get you into this mess. She's the one that needs to change. The problem wasn't your lack of bookkeeping.

2) YNAB does not perform "budgeting" in the traditional sense. You don't say "next month I can spend $200 on Cheetos and Hand Jobs" and then next month track your Cheetos and Hand Job purchases to see how you did against the budget. Instead, YNAB has a specific purpose. You have N dollars in your accounts. Each one of those dollars (that you already possess, and are in your accounts) can only serve a single purpose. So you put 20 of those dollars towards this category, and 100 of those dollars towards that category, and so on. You aren't setting up a budget for dollars you haven't earned yet. You are organizing the dollars you have for specific purposes.

3) That said, you could (in theory) start month one with a giant pile of money in a misc category. And as you spend money in other categories, those buckets will go negative. And you then take dollars from that misc category and move them to cover the spending and zero out negative buckets. Doing that for a month won't help you achieve any goals (since you are not actually assigning roles to your dollars yet), but that might give you a better idea of how you want to assign future dollars.

While there are many people here that use YNAB, we don't all use it the same. I had an advanced system in spreadsheets that I developed over many years that I can mimic exactly in YNAB, so that's how I use it. Others may do it differently. But the commonality is that you are dealing with money that you have, not establishing limits for how you will spend money that you don't have yet.

[Xmann]

I've only skimmed this thread, so pardon me if I'm not on track or repetitive.

My wife and I have literally went through thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars over our near 15 year marriage. We've never had a budget and have spent freely without second thought.

While to a certain extent this was fun and I got to enjoy vacations, gadgets, toys, nice meals, nice vehicles, expensive clothing, etc etc etc....we have been very reckless and our savings is not what it should be for a couple medical professionals with decent salaries.

Anyhow, about three months ago we decided we really needed to become responsible adults (darnit!) and budget our money.

The first couple months were incredibly difficult and led to some occasional hard feelings. We set our budget up with Mint and scrutinized every penny.

We were shocked at the money we were spending on food and dining out. Not only bad for our health, but it was draining our bank account. We cut out cable TV and other expenses and just three months in, we are saving tons of money.

How much are we saving a month by keeping a budget and sticking to it? So far, approximately $1500 a month.

The good news is that it's working and it feels great. Bad part is I can't even begin to estimate how much of our hard earned $$ we have pissed away over the years.

I'm going to look at the YNAB, but so far, Mint has worked miracles for us.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I'm going to look at the YNAB, but so far, Mint has worked miracles for us.

FWIW, they're not mutually exclusive, so you can use them in conjunction.

Mint is better suited for logging all your transactions automatically, and establishing -- and averaging -- what your actual expenses are each month. YNAB is more focused on helping to plan ahead, by ensuring every dollar you're projected to earn has a job, so you assign it to either be spent or saved.

[RunningMn9]

Yeah, I use both, but Mint is more for validating transactions (for me), I no longer use the budget facilities in Mint.

To compare for you, let's say you have a budget category in Mint for $200 on dining out per month. As you spend and track transactions in Mint, it will reduce how much of that $200 is left for the month.

That's how normal budgeting works (as is a perfectly valid way to approach things). They key difference is that in Mint, that $200 isn't money that you have. There's a loose connection but it's just a number based on expected income.

In YNAB, you would only have $200 for dining out if you actually had $200 sitting in an account, waiting to be spent on dining out.

For me at least, YNAB is as much or more about learning how to manage the money that I have than it is about budgeting. YMMV, but I think that YNAB provides more visceral feedback than Mint.

[RunningMn9]

To amend, in Mint, what happens if you spend all $200 for dining out on the first day of the month? What if you haven't earned it yet? Same goes for any bill. In YNAB you are forced to come to grips with the idea that any time you spend money, you are necessarily spending dollars that you must already have. It's doesn't matter that you are getting paid next week, the dollars spent have to come from somewhere.

[Smutly]

Even more interesting, this is the only time that this sort of pessimism comes out. She's not really a negative person, but any sort of plan I throw together is absolutely crapped on. Whether it's out of fear of change or what, I don't know. She sure as hell isn't creating any plans for the future, so we're kind of stagnant.

Gaming saved my marriage (but almost ruined it later with WoW). I was almost divorced once and finances was a major reason. We were both good earners and had just graduated from college so we joined our checking accounts as normal couples do. A year or so later I see our credit card bill lying on the counter to the tune of $6000 (20 years ago). I look at my wife and give her the WTF look. She acted contrite but I told her that the credit card shopping stops now and we are paying this off as soon as possible. Note that I did not use the credit card -- this was her just buying shit she didn't need. We paid off the debt and moved on until a couple years later. We start getting overdraft protection hits on our account to the tune of $20 a pop. WTF? I know how much we make and I know how much our bills are. Why do we not have any money? She gives some bullshit story and when we look at where the money went it was just pissed away. The situation got better for about a year until I just see that our checking account stay dismally low. There was a computer game I wanted to buy that cost $50. How is it that we make more money than most of the population on the planet and I hesitate to purchase a $50 computer game? I had enough.

The next day I went to my local bank and opened up a separate bank account. I redirected my paycheck into that account and then sat down with my wife to give her the news. I told her I was tired of her spending habits and "us" never having money. I went over the bills and told her how much I was going to transfer into our joint account to help cover those bills (which was more than equitable). I told her that I would help her get out of this cycle of financial ruin, but that she had to recognize that she had a problem or in the end we would be divorced and she would be on her own -- free to have as much debt as she would like. Her reaction was that she was pissed. She didn't verbalize it, but the look on her face was that of anger. She didn't verbalize it because she knew she was in the wrong. Later, she calmed down and we starting having more constructive discussions about it.

I talked to her about not spending money that you didn't have. I helped her develop a plan to pay off other credit cards she had that I didn't know about. I showed her that when you have enough cash flow that you could SAVE (a foreign concept) for how ever many months to buy the thing you wanted and that you had to have discipline to not just buy it RIGHT NOW. She tightened up how she manages her finances, but I can tell you that a few times over the past 20 years I have bailed her out by paying off chunks of debt or taking care of necessary expenses. This woman is a professional who makes six figures, so earning money is not the problem. I guess my point is that I had to separate bank accounts for my sanity, because I deserve some buying power for how hard I work, and because in the end you can't let the lunatic run the asylum. She is still not a master of her finances, but she is doing much better and I haven't had to help her in a long time. I still pay for any vacations, furniture, etc. outside of "normal bills". But by God I can buy a $50 computer game whenever I want.

Anyway, I feel your pain and the road we've been on was not a pleasant one. I hope yours goes more smoothly than ours, but I think we made it through. Now if I could just get her to save more for retirement...

[Smoove_B]

I think Smutly raises the core issue - your own personal philosophy towards money, budgeting or saving. If you have two people that are married and their views are similar, it's likely going to be fine. But if they're completely opposite, there's likely going to be trouble. Could be for the individuals, their joint-venture or both. So being on the same page - or at least agreeing on ground rules - is the goal. I'm sure some would look at how I live and scratch their head in the same way that I look at family members that are working themselves to death and are seemingly living paycheck to paycheck.

[RunningMn9]

I think Smutly raises the core issue - your own personal philosophy towards money, budgeting or saving. If you have two people that are married and their views are similar, it's likely going to be fine. But if they're completely opposite, there's likely going to be trouble. Could be for the individuals, their joint-venture or both. So being on the same page - or at least agreeing on ground rules - is the goal. I'm sure some would look at how I live and scratch their head in the same way that I look at family members that are working themselves to death and are seemingly living paycheck to paycheck.

Yeah, this is something that I can understand. If two people are fundamentally incompatible when it comes to financial matters, and they insist on staying together, then you've got to do what you got to do.

It's easier for me to rule with an iron fist (even though I don't) because my income is pretty much the main source of income. When we've had trouble in the past, thankfully (I guess) it's always been joint decisions that got us in trouble, so there was no finger pointing or anything, just a "we need to change". The biggest thing for us is that the way I use YNAB, I know that every bill we have will be paid on time, and I know that there will never be a balance carried forward on the credit card. We only spend dollars we have. Not always wisely (hello 53 bottles of scotch), but we haven't spent money that we don't have in nearly 10 years.

I fully credit YNAB and my pre-YNAB spreadsheets. They provide instant feedback for both of us on what's going on, and no transaction waits longer than 24 hours to be noted along with it's impact, so adjusting on the fly to our needs is super easy.

[Kraken]

I think Smutly raises the core issue - your own personal philosophy towards money, budgeting or saving. If you have two people that are married and their views are similar, it's likely going to be fine. But if they're completely opposite, there's likely going to be trouble.

Agreed, with qualifications. The couple can both move toward an acceptable middle ground. We still don't see money and debt the same way, but Wife's gotten more responsible and I've loosened up a little. I used to be like LordMortis, never buying anything unnecessary, always trying to save every extra dollar that came my way. Now I'm still frugal, but I'm not cheap. For her part, Wife still gets herself into debt from time to time, but now she recognizes it as a problem before it gets out of control, and eventually digs herself back out.

Where our philosophies differ are on spending and income. My impulse is always to live below my means, and hers is always to increase her means. That's been pretty constant over the past 35 years.

[GreenGoo]

I give up.

More later after I've calmed down a bit.

[Skinypupy]

I give up.

More later after I've calmed down a bit.

That's a rather ominous thread necro.

[GreenGoo]

Been served by bank looking to recover full amount of cc debt.

Did you know you have to make at least the bare minimum payments otherwise bad things happen?

Yes, I dropped the ball treating my wife like an adult and not someone who needs guardianship.

Yes I knew it was a mistake. I knew what I needed to do and didn't do it.

There are reasons that made it more difficult than it aught to have been, but those would end up sounding like excuses so...never mind.

To top it all off I have the money and can simply write them a cheque. This time.

There are lawyers involved. Do I need to get my own? The debt isn't contested.

[Kraken]

Well, not an informed legal opinion, but I'd think that payment in full would make the lawyers go away. Retaining one yourself will only cost you more money.

[Pyperkub]

Been served by bank looking to recover full amount of cc debt.

Did you know you have to make at least the bare minimum payments otherwise bad things happen?

Yes, I dropped the ball treating my wife like an adult and not someone who needs guardianship.

Yes I knew it was a mistake. I knew what I needed to do and didn't do it.

There are reasons that made it more difficult than it aught to have been, but those would end up sounding like excuses so...never mind.

To top it all off I have the money and can simply write them a cheque. This time.

There are lawyers involved. Do I need to get my own? The debt isn't contested.

Those damn canadian banks!

[Matrix]

This one is hard one. Most of my assets in domains or crypto. Domains slow moving and crypto extremely volatile. Not married yet and no kids, as somebody raised with oversee mind set in the country that was poor, I always was attuned to spending and saving. At one point my crypto holdings networth were quiet high, (I invested earlyish), at this point I am up multiples from initial investments. With domains its much harder to do the math,as they are not very liquid. I reinvest good amount of my profits into domains.
I also have a good cushion of cash assets just in case (could live few years without any income).
For time being I take high investment risks in areas of my speciality. This will likely change once family is part of conversation.

[Drazzil]

Been served by bank looking to recover full amount of cc debt.

Did you know you have to make at least the bare minimum payments otherwise bad things happen?

Yes, I dropped the ball treating my wife like an adult and not someone who needs guardianship.

Yes I knew it was a mistake. I knew what I needed to do and didn't do it.

There are reasons that made it more difficult than it aught to have been, but those would end up sounding like excuses so...never mind.

To top it all off I have the money and can simply write them a cheque. This time.

There are lawyers involved. Do I need to get my own? The debt isn't contested.

I'm sorry this happened to you man.

[Drazzil]

Been served by bank looking to recover full amount of cc debt.

Did you know you have to make at least the bare minimum payments otherwise bad things happen?

Yes, I dropped the ball treating my wife like an adult and not someone who needs guardianship.

Yes I knew it was a mistake. I knew what I needed to do and didn't do it.

There are reasons that made it more difficult than it aught to have been, but those would end up sounding like excuses so...never mind.

To top it all off I have the money and can simply write them a cheque. This time.

There are lawyers involved. Do I need to get my own? The debt isn't contested.

I don't have much experience negotiating my own debts, but I have tons on negotiating moms. This was in the US so YMMV

I might hire an experienced debt lawyer if it's enuff for them to sue you. At this point if they are suing you, they trashed your credit, so I would just lawyer up and negotiate a flat percentage, rather then the whole debt. Also the lawyer may be able to get your wife into some sort of guardianship arrangement where you can directly control her spending.

Also if debt is large may be CHEAPER to hire the lawyer to negotiate this.

[Paingod]

Sorry to hear it, GreenGoo. With a consistent, recurring problem - is there a "Good" option here?

I mean - like ... pay off the debt, "legally" divorce, put everything in your name, have 50% of her income go into an account without her name on it "to pay for living expenses", and just let her play the dice as she sees fit? At least when the lawyers come knocking, you're insulated and she can't possibly lose everything for both of you over and over?

I am neither a lawyer nor financial adviser. It just seems like there must be some way. If the law only saw her as a girlfriend that lived with you, they couldn't possibly chase you down for her debts, right? Then she could just enjoy cycle after cycle of debt, repossession, lawsuits, debt, repossession, lawsuits...

[GreenGoo]

Hilariously, the same bank that is suing my wife for the full amount of her CC debt just sent me a pre-approval for a CC with a spending limit almost equal to the amount they are suing us for.

Less hilariously but still interesting, the amount my wife owes is almost equal to the principal left on our one and only mortgage.

[Drazzil]

Hilariously, the same bank that is suing my wife for the full amount of her CC debt just sent me a pre-approval for a CC with a spending limit almost equal to the amount they are suing us for.

Less hilariously but still interesting, the amount my wife owes is almost equal to the principal left on our one and only mortgage.

Man.

[Kraken]

Less hilariously but still interesting, the amount my wife owes is almost equal to the principal left on our one and only mortgage.

Three months from now we will pay off our mortgage (technically, our HELOC)...except for the credit card debt bailout that Wife added to it several years ago. That's going to take another four years.

You are not alone.

[GreenGoo]

The smart play is to just tack the debt onto our mortgage. The rate is still crazy low and it would barely change our mortgage payment.

I've never owned a house before and to have come so close only to see it get pushed back years is a hard pill to swallow.

Burning all that cash in one large payment because of stupidity (my own as well as my wife's) just to bring us back to zero, nothing gained, nothing to show for it, is also a hard pill to swallow.

I was gonna use that money for home improvements and/or to (help) buy a new house. The house desperately needs work. It is actually starting to decay, so little money and/or maintenance has been done to it (this is on me and is a major stressor in my life).

To show just how much of this is "rich" white male problems, I had completely forgotten that I have a retirement savings plan (don't ask why I forgot, reasons) that is tax sheltered and not easily (or wisely) accessed, but that is valued at more than double what my wife (we) owes.

I realize how much better than the average household my wife and I have it (as I mentioned in R&P) but god does this irk me something fierce. We're not so well off that we can simply afford to be burning money at 25% (And yes, that's the card's rate. I feel nauseous. Or is it nauseated? Whatever).

It's SO STUPID.

I consider us doing "ok". Those not doing ok will think we're doing awesome, and I get that. We're doing "ok" when we should be doing "awesome". Not Coop/Zarathud/othersIcantthinkofrightnow levels of awesome, but awesome. More awesome than my dad ever had it (I'm not in competition with my Dad, he is the only benchmark I've ever known. My Dad passed when I was 18, fyi. He made a good life for his family). I shouldn't have to even think about money right now (or ever, assuming I die before my pension does), let alone worry about it.

SO...STUPID.

[RunningMn9]

So many times, the real problem is that the lessons aren't learned. You figure out a way out, and then it happens again. As long as it never happens again, you'll figure out a way through it. The most important element here though is Never. Again.

[GreenGoo]

So many times, the real problem is that the lessons aren't learned. You figure out a way out, and then it happens again. As long as it never happens again, you'll figure out a way through it. The most important element here though is Never. Again.

I am aware.

I'm just not sure how to never have it happen again.

I don't have the energy, will or desire to be supreme overlord of the household finances, and that is literally what would take. She is incapable of dealing with finances, I don't know why. She certainly doesn't want to hear anything I have to say, she just wants me to save her (us) again.

I'm pretty sure (depends on whether I've just given up or not by then) that if it happens again the answer will be divorce. She has no reason to think I won't just keep eating it though so it will probably happen again. It makes me sad.

I'm not looking for solutions, I know what I need to do, I'm just venting.

Knowing what to do and doing it are two different things though, as I referenced in your student debt discussion.

Right now I'm just solving the short term problems. Those are actual emergencies and need priority. We'll deal with longer term solutions after (but given precedent, probably not).

[GreenGoo]

The problem, clearly, and as I've pointed out to her numerous times, is *not* a lack of money.

[GreenGoo]

Wow, thanks Rmn9. Now I feel like shit again. I was just getting upbeat about possible solutions for *this* emergency.

Awesome. Going to lie down.

[geezer]

Wow, thanks Rmn9. Now I feel like shit again. I was just getting upbeat about possible solutions for *this* emergency.

Awesome. Going to lie down.

Dude. Life is a series of emergencies. We love the people we love, and we make our choices and accept the repurcussions, good and bad. You have a roof over your head, food on the table and a partner to share ups and downs with. Not slighting RM9 at all, but people are imperfect. Life is imperfect. Sometimes it takes two, three, five times for someone to learn, and sometimes we never do because it’s just not in our nature. And sometimes despite our best efforts and well-made plans, things just go goofy.

[Zarathud]

Just to clarify, I work for rich people so they can die rich. I am very well paid but not rich.

Working for rich people is expensive, as are the health problems of my wife and kids (neuro-muscular and diabetes). When I finish paying off my very nice new house at my retirement, maybe I'll be rich. Or if I die earlier leaving life insurance payouts.

But I'm very acutely aware my lifestyle is privileged and others have it much better/worse. I have seen that money does not solve problems, and that some people just can't control their spending. You can try to limit it, but it's never easy.

[RunningMn9]

Wow, thanks Rmn9. Now I feel like shit again. I was just getting upbeat about possible solutions for *this* emergency.

Awesome. Going to lie down.

My intent was certainly not to bring you down. I was endorsing the fact that no matter what happens, you’ve got to deal with this crisis. And I was more hoping for you that once of these times, the light bulb goes on for the other principle so that you don’t have to go through this again.

The source of my comment is experience. I went through this several times. To be fair, the problem was joint, so there was less friction between us (it wasn’t really about blaming each other, just disbelief that we could keep allowing it to happen). The only way out was to change the system so that there was a single point of failure. I fell on the sword to become the gatekeeper, but it really just needed one of us, not both of us working at cross purposes because we weren’t aware of what the other was doing.

But again, I was most certainly not trying to bring you down.

[Zaxxon]

Not trying to be a downer (and not intending to cast judgment), but I agree with RM. A critical piece of dealing with this crisis is putting safeguards into place to ensure it won't happen again, or it will happen again. Time to shred the cards?

As former GGers, we ain't young anymore. The impact of each event is greater than the last.

[GreenGoo]

Yeah, wasn't blaming Rmn9, sarcasm doesn't come through.

That said, 1 heart attack inducing problem at a time, thank you.

I only just figured out my options on being sued this time. Not ready to think about the big picture.

A drowning man doesn't want to be reminded that he has a triathlon next weekend when he's just getting a good enough grip on a floatation device.

[RunningMn9]

Fair enough. Get through it, and then we’ll dig in to why getting sued isn’t a big enough wake up call for your wife.

[coopasonic]

Fair enough. Get through it, and then we’ll dig in to why getting sued isn’t a big enough wake up call for your wife.

But that one is so easy... she is not feeling any consequences. No consequences? No problem.

Sorry, I am not very good at "let's deal with that later."

Also, I am far from rich, no matter what Isgrimnur says.

[GreenGoo]

Fair enough. Get through it, and then we’ll dig in to why getting sued isn’t a big enough wake up call for your wife.

But that one is so easy... she is not feeling any consequences. No consequences? No problem.

Sorry, I am not very good at "let's deal with that later."

Also, I am far from rich, no matter what Isgrimnur says.

Yeah, no one thinks they are rich, I get it.

Except I think I'm rich. My wife thinks we're a struggling middle class family. 90% of Canadian households would like a word with her.

"It's deal with it later" because it's "one problem at a time". I have very real pressure to figure out which Peter to rob to pay Paul, and how to deal with Paul so he doesn't become another Peter. Also, I only have enough energy and motivation for 1 problem at a time. Too many problems and I'll have to lie down again. I don't care if that's not how it works for others, it's how it works for me, today. We've already established that I let this happen when I could have prevented it.

The much more interesting part is your talk of consequences. What sort of consequences do you see working on a woman who makes about 50% of the household income, has her own accounts (I did this in a rare moment of foresight right after we got married and were about to combine our accounts. If we had combined accounts I seriously doubt I would have any savings at all and still be in just as much debt), clearly has no ability whatsoever to manage even a piggy bank, inability or lack of desire to internalize my advice/suggestions/demands, unmotivated by my anger (although this is the only time she is contrite. I regularly ask her how things are going and look over her shoulder. We can talk about how this happened despite me checking every once in awhile, later).

I can't actually beat her, so coop, what consequences come to mind? I'm listening. On the one hand I find it hilarious because as far as I can tell, no consequences work with her. On the other hand, I desperately want you to provide me with the magical answer that will get her to stop screwing us financially.

[GreenGoo]

To give a clearer picture and a little less criticism to my wife, a significant part of the current debt is simply interest. Yes, I get that this is still her responsibility and she failed at it, but she did not spend us into this mess, she spent us into a much smaller mess and the insanely high interest rate did the rest. I'm fairly sure that even after all this time my wife doesn't understand how compound interest actually works. She gets that it's bad, and that the more debt she has, the more she is going to have, but that's it. I seriously doubt she could tell you the mechanics of it. I tried, earlier in our marriage, to teach her, but that did not end well.

[LordMortis]

On a lighter note. So long as the stock market doesn't fall to worse than it is today, I think I am set to have a $1000 a month for the rest of my life. That is enough to cover my current monthly recurring expenses and annual property taxes. Health care and "oh shit" big expenses (like new car, new roof, water heaters die?, you mean I'm responsible for connecting to your septic? type things) are now still to be saved for (and figured out. I really have no idea how to figure out the cost of health care without my employer paying doing the negotiating), but I'm getting there. A major (for me) milestone has been achieved.

I have moved up two rungs on the scale since June 09, 2016 and am still climbing, so I'm feeling pretty good about my progress, even if I still fear my ability to get out of bed and go to work will give before my finances dictate that an inability to get out of bed and go to work is somehow in the realm of possibility.

I guess that means batton down the hatches. Whenever I don't feel like the sky is falling, that's a sign of trouble.


I feel for you GG. The I part of we would be feeling very i if I were in your shoes and uncertain if he was strong enough to be at peace in the weness of his life. But then, I'm both weak and selfish.

[coopasonic]

The asshole in me wants to say walk away from the relationship, but I haven't walked from mine so that's hypocritical and perhaps an overreaction. On the other hand, if you do feel like it is a threat to your relationship, I'd want to let her know that. I avoid confrontation so I am not sure I would actually do it, but I'd want to. She'd probably take it as a bluff anyway... or start seeking comfort elsewhere.

Beyond that, you stated that you don't want to take control of the finances, but I think that is what is necessary if she can't wrap her head around the problem. There must be tools to restrict her access to credit and spending. Also, if she's like my wife, disconnect her from whatever groups of Facebook moms she is getting all these expensive ideas from.

Again I am being hypocritical because I just groan quietly when another package of crap shows up on the front step. You're welcome, Jag.

In summary, I am not sure what the right answer is, but no consequences almost certainly means no change in behaviour.

[RunningMn9]

What sort of consequences do you see working on a woman who makes about 50% of the household income, has her own accounts (I did this in a rare moment of foresight right after we got married and were about to combine our accounts. If we had combined accounts I seriously doubt I would have any savings at all and still be in just as much debt), clearly has no ability whatsoever to manage even a piggy bank, inability or lack of desire to internalize my advice/suggestions/demands, unmotivated by my anger (although this is the only time she is contrite.

At the outset, just to clarify that I agree that nothing I am about to say has to do with your current crisis, which I agree you just have to deal with however you have figured out how to deal with it.

For future consideration, I see that you note that having separate accounts all this time is a good thing, as it stopped her from mismanaging your accounts too. And that's probably a keen insight in some ways. That's the positive side of the equation. I mean, she's damaged your accounts too, but seemingly only during the cleanup phase.

The thing to consider here, just as possible advice, is that perhaps it is actually time to rethink whether or not someone that has provided ample proof that they are incapable of managing their own finances should remain in charge of 50% of the finances.

But I assume we can all agree that this way lies danger. Yanking control of the finances away from someone that doesn't seem to agree that they are horrific at managing finances doesn't seem like it has much chance of working out on the relationship front.

What are the options then?

Instead of a 50/50 split, what are the chances of working out a 10/10/80 split? She manages 10% for her stuff, you manage 10% for your stuff, and you manage 80% for the household itself? The theory being that household goals cannot have any chance of success with two people working at odds with their money supply. <insert actual ratios that make sense for your post-crisis situation>

A lot of people keep finances separate these day because of the impact that money can have on poisoning a relationship. If two people have very different ideas about how to (mis)manage things though, it's going to be a problem whether the accounts are separate or not. My concern for separate accounts is that by the time you are aware of the problem, shit has gone critical. If you were keenly aware of the issues that lead to this, one week after they started happening, there's at least an opportunity to head things off at the pass.

The solutions require communication and a willingness for both of you to try something new. But you are going to have to find a way to do it without harping, yelling, etc. as that just builds resistance in the subject. When you get through this acute situation, start bouncing ideas off of people. See what works for them. What issues have they run into and overcome. I have to believe there's a solution that doesn't involve a tarp and some lye.

[Smoove_B]

On the one hand I find it hilarious because as far as I can tell, no consequences work with her.

I'd agree. Not having any consequences seems to work for her, yes.

Consequences have to be meaningful in the bigger picture. As you've pointed out, you're engaging in the spinning plate game, constantly running between wobbly sticks and trying to keep them from falling to the ground. Here, I'm assuming the spinning plates are house/life related issues and you're getting notified by lawyers over luxury spending.

Consequences are missed opportunities because of a lack of financial discipline. Vacation. New car. New clothes. Weekend trips. Whatever it is - something that will make a person think twice about how they spend their money today so that they can spend that same amount at some point in the future, doing something more important to them.

All that being said, I don't know that someone in their 40s (30s, 40s, 50s, etc...) is going to change how they do things without severe pain. I mean, it's worked for 20+ years at this point, so why stop? I wish I had practical advice to offer here, but when you're dealing with a partnership, I just don't know what you can realistically do or agree to that isn't going to negatively impact one or both parties and breed resentment.

I'm really sorry.

[GreenGoo]

On the one hand I find it hilarious because as far as I can tell, no consequences work with her.

I'd agree. Not having any consequences seems to work for her, yes.