Net Worth

[Blackhawk]

I'm not at all criticizing you dividing your finances. I said I don't understand it or the mindset, but not understanding is confusion, not disapproval. My post was only a callback to a suggestion earlier that some part of the problem was that her end was getting out of hand (she said food was 'crippling' you, and that you weren't entirely sure how much that was.) Other people picked up on that as well, hence some of the comments they made about making sure each end of the separate deal was actually equal. It isn't that our numbers are so out of whack (although they are, and I'm well aware that my personal experience only peripherally applies to your world), but that I think a certain way when faced with a problem. My first step is always to gather information and try to understand the situation in its entirety. When I can see the entire thing and look at all the moving pieces, then I can figure out what's not working and what needs to change. The impression that I got (and forgive me if I'm misreading - I'm good at that) is that neither of you really see the whole system right now. Each of you seem to be working from your own perspective toward different ends.

[GreenGoo]

Would our situation be improved by diligent accounting, active management, appropriate budgeting and just more active responsibility and less laissez-faire from both of us?

Of course. That's a given.

If you're asking if our incomes and outgoes are actively tracked? Then no. That should be clear from the fact that we are being sued for non-payment. Well, I guess it's possible that we accurately tracked everything and then simply failed to act on the knowledge that we were likely to be sued, so I'll just clarify that no, that is not what happened.

It's not completely random or unwatched but no one is acting as the gatekeeper for all the moneys coming into or leaving the house.

[Blackhawk]

Is there any chance your wife would agree to either a 'gatekeeper' or a system with a gatekeeper-by-consensus?

[GreenGoo]

Depends.

Probably.

[RunningMn9]

I would like it noted for the record that I couldn’t care less how couples organize their finances. I’m not on a mission to impose my one right way to pay bills.

If something works for a couple, keep doing it. I was simply highlighting the reality that becomes apparent when this particular arrangement doesn’t work, that the arrangement is somewhat arbitrary and doesn’t match the reality of the legal arrangement you’ve entered into. To get away from those problems, start with the reality of the legal arrangement and work up a new way that takes that into account.

Marriages that merge finances have a whole other host of potential problems. They aren’t perfect either.

[GreenGoo]

I'm all tuckered out on this and basically don't even want to look at it (the thread/topic in general, not anyone's posts specifically, not even my own).

Maybe tomorrow.

[Madmarcus]

I am not sure I should respond to this. In many ways my household seems to be a smaller scale version of yours; we've never earned nearly as much but we are comfortable in our own way. Which makes me unsure if my ideas are really off the wall since I've never experienced any money dynamics similar to yours.

We have it enviably good, from the day to day aspect and the long term aspect.

My wife wants to go to NYC to see a concert? Done. In cash. I want a boat that goes vvvvrrroom vrrroom? Well I just don't want to want that boat, that's all.

I'm in IT. My wife has a thousand dollar tablet with 300 dollar keyboard and a thousand dollar phone because I love her and I want her to have the best. I have a $300 dollar android (a good one, at the time!) that was out of date 2 years ago. The ONLY part of that that makes me bitter is that she also has 10's of thousands of dollars of consumer debt for no good reason that I can figure out, except that adding and subtracting are beyond her abilities without me watching her every move, every day, for the rest of my life. Which is exhausting.

Earlier in the thread you have made comments about your money being there for the household. Combined with the info on concert, tech, and boat and I suspect that your wife's issue has nothing to do with adding and subtracting. Or the basics of compound interest. From my outside point of view it looks like your actions are telling her that collectively you can afford everything you want and, perhaps more specifically, she can get anything she wants. For whatever reason she wants to spend more on day to day household expenses then you do.

The rub is that you don't care about them. So while you are showering her with expensive tech and willingly throwing down cash for her to take a trip you've also said that her responsibilities (the food, clothing and similar household expenses) are the one place that you would criticize her if she came to you asking for money. So it's easier just not to ask. Nothing else is denied so why should she be criticized over something that she knows ultimately the pair of you can afford (as you are demonstrating right now by writing a check to clear up the lawsuit). You have set up a distorted system by setting the variable household expenses as her responsibility but mentally thinking anything over your very modest desires is dollars spent for no good reason.

[Max Peck]

That is a major advantage of Smoove's method - there is no looking outside of looking in your wallet.

Yeah, it's probably not a method you could use to figure out how to keep a better budget as your cash allowance is completely untraceable (unless you keep receipts for everything - "We do not need to bring ink and paper into this").

I'm also a cash guy, on the theory that I can't spend cash that I don't have. I give myself a monthly cash allowance that is used for all IRL out-of-pocket expenses, including groceries. I do keep receipts, and while I went through through them and itemized how the money was used back when I first retired, I stopped doing that once I was happy that the allotment was suitable for the purpose, at which point it became busywork that I'm too lazy to worry about. I don't use my debit card at all, and my CC is mostly for online purchases and recurring payments and is rarely used IRL.

[Z-Corn]

I think you're just pissed that you are too stubborn to just pay the bill and your wife is gonna go to jail and you're gonna have to learn how to cook.

[GreenGoo]

First, Hah!


Random comments:

I buy nice things for my wife because she's my wife and I love her and I can afford it. That's not a flaw, not even in this situation. If you think it is, there are either factors that you are missing, or we have very different ideas what money is for.

I've already said that we do not live an extravagant life style. Buying 1 tablet or 1 phone or both doesn't change that. We have a ten year old Honda Odyssey, for example. I take the bus for my commute even though I don't have to. None of my office does and I am often mocked for it. I said I DON'T buy myself a boat. Seems like there is confusion there.

I know how to cook. My wife is unavailable for 2-3 days every week as she works 12 hour shifts and sleeps in between them. The kids have to eat something in that time period. Still, for 4-5 days of the week it is her domain. I cook for subsistence only. I don't enjoy it.

Does America have debtor's jail or something? I've seen several references to jail when talking about debt. Drazzil is mostly right. If you have no money and don't care about your credit rating, there's not much they can do to you. That doesn't make it right or ethical but that's the reality for most people. My wife is not going to jail whatever happens. I realize it was a joke but it's still weird.

I used to be a cash only guy as well, but the cash back on cc is too good not to utilize. Also, if your cc gets compromised 1 phone call fixes it. If your interact card gets compromised, the bank makes sure it's not their problem. Using unsecured credit is safer than accessing your bank account all the time. Using a good cash back cc is financially smarter than utilizing a cash only system. As long as you pay it off every month, but that goes without saying.

My wife's issue is an unhealthy, unrealistic relationship with money. Do I contribute to that? Probably. I am unhappy with my own relationship with money, and she contributes to that. She can add and subtract but refuses to do it. She doesn't even have a basic understanding of compound interest.

There is no question that because I have saved us before and the marriage didn't end, this gives her confidence that I will save us in the future and the marriage won't end. Agreed. We haven't even discussed consequences yet. I'm too busy dealing with the short term. I said that in the thread.

I will give some thought to your comments madmarcus. I don't believe they are a completely fair assessment but will think it over and see what applies. I've tried to convey how things operate but it's clear that some aspects are being distorted and others simply not being conveyed. Whether that's my fault, the medium we're using or the amount of detail that a life creates that is not conveyable without writing a book, I don't know

One of the reasons I wrote here despite a fairly intense need to live a private life is so people can make observations that I may have missed. Thanks for commenting.

[Zarathud]

I've been hesitant to post but Madmarcus is right. You need to talk with your wife about how you've assigned budgetary responsibilities. Her priorities and view of the household budget may be different.

Food is expensive and your wife may feel that your "responsible" lifestyle doesn't reflect the current financial burden. If you are able to save and shower her with gifts, you are also able to contribute more to household expense. Whether you want to or should is another matter. But it's something you need to discuss with her constructively rather than raging about here.

[Kraken]

That is a major advantage of Smoove's method - there is no looking outside of looking in your wallet.

Yeah, it's probably not a method you could use to figure out how to keep a better budget as your cash allowance is completely untraceable (unless you keep receipts for everything - "We do not need to bring ink and paper into this").

I'm also a cash guy, on the theory that I can't spend cash that I don't have. I give myself a monthly cash allowance that is used for all IRL out-of-pocket expenses, including groceries. I do keep receipts, and while I went through through them and itemized how the money was used back when I first retired, I stopped doing that once I was happy that the allotment was suitable for the purpose, at which point it became busywork that I'm too lazy to worry about. I don't use my debit card at all, and my CC is mostly for online purchases and recurring payments and is rarely used IRL.

I used to operate on cash when my weekly spending money was strictly limited -- I got two $20 bills on payday, and that was it for the week. But I rarely buy anything unplanned anyway so I don't need that constraint.

Wife would benefit from having a limit, but cash is definitely not the way to go for her. When she has it, she leaks cash, because she just stuffs it in the nearest pocket or purse or whatever's close at hand. It frequently ends up dropped on the ground or run through the laundry. I used to joke that all the homeless people in Cambridge followed her around, waiting for those bills to hit the ground. When she did run out of cash, she'd just hit up the bottomless ATM for more. Forgotten wads of money that she would periodically stumble upon in pockets partly balanced that out. A cash economy works if you are careful with it and willing to adhere to your own rules...and if you already have self-discipline, you probably don't need the technique.

[GreenGoo]

I've been hesitant to post but Madmarcus is right. You need to talk with your wife about how you've assigned budgetary responsibilities. Her priorities and view of the household budget may be different.

Food is expensive and your wife may feel that your "responsible" lifestyle doesn't reflect the current financial burden. If you are able to save and shower her with gifts, you are also able to contribute more to household expense. Whether you want to or should is another matter. But it's something you need to discuss with her constructively rather than raging about here.

Sure. Also, I can do both (rage and be constructive). Also, also, I haven't begun to work on fixing the over all problem yet. Has that not been clear? I've said it multiple times now. That you think I need to be solving a 20 year old problem right now instead of venting is fine, and thanks for the advice, but I'll get to it. The problem isn't going away, and the nature of the problem means that it takes months to manifest in ways that matter. Which means I can prioritize what needs my attention now, and what can wait. I have been clear that I can NOT handle fixing both problems at once and if trying to do both results in neither getting fixed, the lawsuit goes from a nuisance to having a major impact. Yeah, yeah, it already has a major impact. I'm saying NOT dealing with it would be worse. Surely no one is going to question that?

I'm working on the "getting sued part" and the dealing with the stress of "getting sued" part. I'll deal with the "wtf are we in this situation" part after. Which is only like 2-3 weeks away. If that's too long for the viewers at home, duly noted. I'm not ignoring the problems, I'm prioritizing them. You can disapprove if you want.

Fixing the lawsuit is easy. Fixing the household financial problems, my wife's relationship with money, my relationship with my wife, much harder. I'll get to it. If it hasn't been clear, fixing those things will cause MAJOR disruption in my house. School is about to start. We have things that need to be done NOW. My wife will almost certainly push back in ways that you can't imagine that will hurt me personally. I'm not afraid of that, but it's not as simple as you guys believe. While I like to pretend it's about adding and subtracting (because I find it funny, and in some ways, that's all it is) the solution is not teaching her to add and subtract. We are in for a WORLD OF HURT. Is it of my own making because I let us get to where we are? Sure, partially.

I find it hilarious that no one has just suggested that I tell my wife to spend less money. because
a) That would actually solve the problem
b) She's the one spending the money
c) It ignores the realities of human relationships completely, something that I see on the forums constantly from certain members.

Does anyone here believe that she has ANY responsibility for the current situation? She's a grown up too, all the things you're saying to me are what I need to do to fix things. And that's fine, I get that, but man, the house isn't being foreclosed on because I decided that I could ignore the mortgage payments. Imagine if I did. While I certainly shoulder some of the responsibility and need to act in ways to improve the situation, *I'm* the reason the kids have an education account.

I may not be the good guy here but I sure as shit ain't the bad guy. Have I made mistakes? Absolutely. Could I do better? Obviously. But geezus fucking christ the lawsuit has her name on it, not mine. We are BOTH adults. She's not an infant. I'm good and I should be using my abilities to help the family more. Not doing everything in my power while my wife does nothing in hers to help the family if not MY CRIME alone.

[GreenGoo]

I'm willing to accept criticism and responsibility. I'm not willing to become the sole focus of everything that is going wrong. That's unfair to me and that's an inaccurate picture.

In any case, I appreciate the help.

Thanks. Sincerely.

edit: I don't shower her with gifts. I buy her nice things on occasion. She does not live an extravagant life style either. She might take a trip once or twice a year. People need breaks from work and responsibility. Taking a vacation is not an extravagance.

I absolutely can contribute more to the household expenses. That's never been in question. I could probably, if I managed things like the more diligent of you, handle somewhere between 80 and 100% of the household expenses on my salary alone. Let me reiterate. Lack of money is not the problem. Me paying more into the household doesn't solve anything. Me watching her CC spending like a hawk would fix a symptom, but not the problem.

Once upon a time I actually gave her (well, I put forth and she agreed) an UNFAIR share of the expenses, in the hopes that she would spend all her money on tangible things that needed paying and have less disposable income that she would burn, giving me more free rein to save for things the family needs, like vacations for everyone, a new roof, a new car (for the family, I barely drive anywhere anymore) etc etc. It actually worked for awhile. But then it didn't. That was over a decade ago.

[GreenGoo]

Yes, I realize I'm being defensive again. There's a lot of "why haven't you" questions. And that's fair, up to a point. You only see my side of things despite me trying to fairly represent both, and I'm the only one here that you are speaking to directly, as she's an abstract in my story telling. I get it.

Like I said, I'm willing to take most of it on the chin. If it starts to feel too much like "you suck, that's why your house is in disorder" I'm likely to push back. Notice I said "feel". Feeling something doesn't make it true, but it's still a real response even if it's based on things that might not be true.

So if I push back, understand that it's because I'm under a lot of stress, there is a lot of focus on what I can do to solve things and what I can do better (a less confrontational way of saying things you're doing wrong).

I may be part of the problem. But I'm not *the* problem and I'll begin to feel resentful if I start to feel like that's how people are viewing this.

Yes, I realize that I may be misinterpreting comments. Cut me some slack, please.

[GreenGoo]

At least no one has told me straight up that I'm a liar and then told me how things *really* are in my life. I feel for you, Paingod. Welcome to the internet.

[Blackhawk]

We can't address your wife directly, so most of the input has been directed at you. And while you share some responsibility for what happens in a de-facto partnership, the majority of the responsibility does seem to lie on her. But, and this may just be a flaw of this limited form of communication, the impression I had (and probably others) was that she's not really willing to be flexible in her ways. If that's as true as it sounds, then the solution probably falls on you, whether that solution is to forcibly fix it, firewall yourself, or beat a hasty retreat.

And there's nothing wrong with plugging the leak, then mopping up the water, and only then replacing the plumbing.

[Blackhawk]

And friends (especially of the internet variety) are always going to be hesitant to criticize the spouse of a friend.

[GreenGoo]

I've been hesitant to post but Madmarcus is right. You need to talk with your wife about how you've assigned budgetary responsibilities. Her priorities and view of the household budget may be different.

Food is expensive and your wife may feel that your "responsible" lifestyle doesn't reflect the current financial burden. If you are able to save and shower her with gifts, you are also able to contribute more to household expense. Whether you want to or should is another matter. But it's something you need to discuss with her constructively rather than raging about here.

I didn't delete my comments because I think deleting is a bit of a copout. Sometimes it's appropriate but once they've been out in the wild it's less reasonable.

Let me just say that I'm taking a step back, re-reading your post Zarathud, and taking another crack at it. For the record I did not react as I did because of who the author was. I barely registered who wrote the post, to be honest. So it was not a reaction to you personally Zarathud.

Ok, take 2, but shorter and less...messy.

We absolutely need to get our budgeting in order. That's on the list and part of the long term solution. I know from past analysis (not current, but past) that her expenses are always more than I think but less than she believes. Keeping track of things is a no-brainer. I know how to do this but for reasons that are my own, I have failed to do so repeatedly over the years. Nothing is stopping her from doing it, yet it falls to me. Fine. It sounds like I resent it but I really don't. I would do it as a simple matter of fact but as I said, there are times when I have to reduce my workload and lesser priority items fall by the wayside.

In any case, I agree with you and it's good advice for anyone, even those not in financial crisis.

Food IS expensive. We have 5 mouths to feed and this summer two of those mouths went through growing spurts. It's extra expensive because we eat a lot of take out and throw away lots of food. That's less a problem with a financial solution and more a life style one with financial ramifications. I have trouble internalizing just HOW expensive it is. Without tight tracking both my wife and I have misconceptions about what it costs. The first step is tighter tracking as you suggested.

I'm not going to re-write what I wrote about being able to contribute more to the household but the answer is yes, I can. What I can't do is spend all our money on household expenses, even if they are valid ones. If we are living without saving then we are living beyond our means, imo. I know for a fact (because I've done the analysis in the past) that we are wasting money. She is resentful that I have an opinion on the grocery bill despite the fact that she does all the groceries. (I'm at work, she's home all day, etc, etc). This is a relationship problem not a fiscal one. Should be fun.

lastly, I can do both. Rage here (do I really seem that angry? I'm not. Just the occasional bursts of "this is so basic, why is it broken?" kind of rhetoric) and deal with things constructively at home.

[GreenGoo]

We can't address your wife directly, so most of the input has been directed at you. And while you share some responsibility for what happens in a de-facto partnership, the majority of the responsibility does seem to lie on her. But, and this may just be a flaw of this limited form of communication, the impression I had (and probably others) was that she's not really willing to be flexible in her ways. If that's as true as it sounds, then the solution probably falls on you, whether that solution is to forcibly fix it, firewall yourself, or beat a hasty retreat.

And there's nothing wrong with plugging the leak, then mopping up the water, and only then replacing the plumbing.

I know Blackhawk. I am really trying to be open minded, receptive, and calm.

Thanks for responding.

I am NOT going to sit at this keyboard compulsively for the entire day like I seemed to yesterday, so I'll go find something productive to do. But only after I play a little Inquisitor Martyr.

[GreenGoo]

One last thing. February of last year Pyperkub gave me acopy of YNAB. While I started out strong, it wasn't long before I dropped the ball. I feel I owe Pyper a huge apology. His generosity in this matter was significant, and I wasted it.

I'm very sorry Pyper.

With that said, it will be one of the tools I use moving forward, assuming I don't fall down again. So while I fully admit I wasted the opportunity, I also like to think it will still result in the benefit that it was intended.

[RunningMn9]

YNAB is central to House RM9 financial tranquility. The key is that the data is synced and it shows all interested parties exactly what’s going on. Additionally, since its connected to all the accounts, there are never any surprises outside of what can transpire in a 24-hour period.

However, it works for us because it keeps us both aware of the big picture. It would be less useful if I was using one file to deal with my stuff and she was using one file to deal with her stuff.

[Blackhawk]

Maybe INYNAB. I should probably take a look at it.

/edit - this thing is a subscription now? Nevermind. I'll get by with the spreadsheets.

[GreenGoo]

YNAB is central to House RM9 financial tranquility. The key is that the data is synced and it shows all interested parties exactly what’s going on. Additionally, since its connected to all the accounts, there are never any surprises outside of what can transpire in a 24-hour period.

However, it works for us because it keeps us both aware of the big picture. It would be less useful if I was using one file to deal with my stuff and she was using one file to deal with her stuff.

That's what you said last time.

I'm not a champion of separate accounts, only that they work if both sides are even mediocre at managing finances.

I'm going to start another thread that is less navel gazing and more solutions oriented. Believe it or not I am a strong solver of problems and I can do this one as well. The problem (and this one I can't easily solve) has always been one of a lack of energy and motivation, not with ignorance about what needed to be done.

On that note, becoming the supreme overlord of our finances will be part of it. I say that tongue in cheek, as I mostly just mean become the caretaker of all the finances, with my wife's help, input and support. YNAB will be invaluable in that pursuit.

One of the problems in our relationship is that I need partner buy-in before I do anything of significance, and she has withheld it all too often, and often irrationally (I know how that sounds, but it's the truth). When I come up with a plan to better our lives, she often hums and hahs, and focuses on all the reasons why it's a bad idea. She convinced me to NOT put an extra thousand down on a car we bought (long ago) because "what if we need that cash?!". We had probably 5 grand in the bank. It was a 5 year loan at 7%. That thousand bucks cost us $1200 for no good reason. I *hate* that. But I need my partner to agree with my decisions and she often won't. *any* change scares her and she immediately thinks negatively. I'm pessimistic, but she's literally afraid.

[GreenGoo]

Maybe INYNAB. I should probably take a look at it.

/edit - this thing is a subscription now? Nevermind. I'll get by with the spreadsheets.

Yes, but Pyper's copy was an older version that was grandfather'd in, no subscription fees required. I haven't opened it in...awhile. I'll see if anything has changed. Welcome to software as a service now. Because business models.

edit: ran it. No sign of subscription requirements.

Gonna run a credit report. If anyone is interested and I haven't posted about it, remind me later. I'm only just curious as it doesn't impact what I do in the short term.

[Madmarcus]

First, Hah!


Random comments:

I buy nice things for my wife because she's my wife and I love her and I can afford it. That's not a flaw, not even in this situation. If you think it is, there are either factors that you are missing, or we have very different ideas what money is for.

No one has ever claimed I have a totally rational view of money.

More seriously, your earlier comment of "Well I just don't want to want that boat, that's all." can be read two ways. I took it to mean that you wouldn't hesitate to buy the boat instead of sitting around wanting it. My mistake.

I can't tell if some of your venting is a little over the top (as you say your reactions in the Hobbit film thread are) but since you have the money to pay off the lawsuit I would content that this is totally a communication issue not a financial one. If I was going to think about solutions I'd look for ways to make it painless for her to get bills covered (no recrimination, no judgement) but also set up a system of looking where the money is going every couple of months/twice a year. Just often enough to keep things from spiraling but not so often as to cause you to feel like you are constantly managing her spending.

I will give some thought to your comments madmarcus. I don't believe they are a completely fair assessment but will think it over and see what applies. I've tried to convey how things operate but it's clear that some aspects are being distorted and others simply not being conveyed. Whether that's my fault, the medium we're using or the amount of detail that a life creates that is not conveyable without writing a book, I don't know

One of the reasons I wrote here despite a fairly intense need to live a private life is so people can make observations that I may have missed. Thanks for commenting.

Oddly enough I don't think we are that far apart in financial matters. Unless you give in to the boat desire!

[RunningMn9]

/edit - this thing is a subscription now? Nevermind. I'll get by with the spreadsheets.

Yes, but on the plus side, if used properly it will easy pay for itself. It just has to help folks save more than $5 per month to be worthwhile.

[Madmarcus]

Odd thought that says more about me and my outlook on money than it says about your situation.

The biggest fight that we have gotten into over money was based on a a couple of sub $200 purchases I made that my wife felt were wasted (bought and then not used - prescription reading glasses that turned out to be a horrible fit for my face and too much hassle to switch to from my normal glasses). My reaction has been to stop buying things for me because logically I don't like the waste any more than she does. Except that I've had a couple of Visa gift cards come my way - those I treat like completely mad money, spend impulsively, and more or less hide from my wife. None of this is a good reaction. Yet I'm a logical, practical guy with a good head for numbers and finances in all other ways. In the end this doesn't really matter to us; my wife has figured out she sometimes has to be willing to tell me to spend on myself. The little gift card windfalls are not common enough to get me into bad habits in the bigger picture. Maybe that doesn't directly tie into your situation.But I tend to view it that if I can be irrational about money then anyone can without it being a big failing or flaw. Or, for that matter, without meaning that they are hopeless at making financial decisions.

Earlier this morning I mentioned not knowing how much of your reaction was hyperbole. What I mean is that it seems to me that you are presenting two extremes; you are either hands off (which has landed your family in trouble a couple of times) or you are completely managing everything (which you describe as exhausting). Is there no middle ground in which you try to meet together and work on things at a a monthly or every couple of months schedule?

[em2nought]

Somewhere over $100,000 but it's mostly money which is owed to me so hopefully I get it. I was going to go look at a Kia Niro Hybrid yesterday, but decided I can't quite afford it at the moment. I made a goof shuffling money around on 0% interest credit cards which I need to wait to clear next month so I can try to trade some old cards for another 0% card to place some business purchases on. That has to come before that Kia, but that Niro looks great for a Hybrid. The money I lose having to carry comprehensive insurance should be offset by the improved gas mileage.

[GreenGoo]

/edit - this thing is a subscription now? Nevermind. I'll get by with the spreadsheets.

Yes, but on the plus side, if used properly it will easy pay for itself. It just has to help folks save more than $5 per month to be worthwhile.

I agree but when finding 5 bucks is a problem, or when you already have such tight control over your finances that it might not save 5 bucks, I can understand the hesitation.

Obviously in my situation it's worth it's weight in gold. How much does data weigh again?

[RunningMn9]

I agree but when finding 5 bucks is a problem, or when you already have such tight control over your finances that it might not save 5 bucks, I can understand the hesitation.

Yeah, I definitely understand Blackhawk's hesitation. I wasn't happy about it at first either.

[Blackhawk]

It's more of a convenience thing. I still do what it offers, I just do it on a spreadsheet, a notepad, and by checking each account online.

[RunningMn9]

It's more of a convenience thing. I still do what it offers, I just do it on a spreadsheet, a notepad, and by checking each account online.

Understood. For me, the magic of YNAB is that it is structured exactly the same way as my prior spreadsheet system. I still use a spreadsheet (I project all of my YNAB categories out for two years to ensure that the balance will never dip below $0, and the spreadsheets I had worked best for that, it's something that I do once per year). My system is still overly complicated despite YNAB, but I just can't let go. I use Mint as well, but that's just a check against the transactions that YNAB downloads. The primary reason is that YNAB only downloads transactions that have cleared, it doesn't download pending transactions. I should ask them for that so I can streamline my process.

[Blackhawk]

And let's be honest. Because I have less money, I probably have fewer things to keep track of than most people who have more. Fewer debts (just my student loan, no taxes/house/mortgage/car/?), fewer cards (1), fewer subscriptions/services, fewer accounts, and so forth. I can look at one page and see everything I spend in a month, and quickly see what is optional (Netflix and Spotify) and what is flexible (mainly just my food budget, by going into 'emergency mode' - ie ramen and hot dogs instead of fruit & vegetables.)

[Isgrimnur]

Seeing as you’re unemployed, why are you paying your student loan?

[Blackhawk]

Seeing as you’re unemployed, why are you paying your student loan?

It's been on deferment for a decade. While it isn't an expense, I listed it because it still my only outstanding debt. I don't owe anything on anything, with the sole exception of that 25-year-old loan.

[Isgrimnur]

Total and Permanent Disability Discharge

[GreenGoo]

Oh god, let's hope!

Good luck blackhawk.

It's a shame that it probably won't change your day to day much, but at least you won't have this giant sword of Damocles hanging over you.

Fingers crossed.

[Blackhawk]

I looked into that once, and it became so convoluted that I finally gave up. My loans have changed hands so many times that I'm not even sure if I'd be eligible.

I should probably poke at it again.

[Drazzil]

By the end of the year, fuck and all.