Game of Thrones Season 7

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:28 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote:I don't think it's out of character for Jaime to head north alone. He is already 'betraying' his sister, the queen. He wouldn't further betray her by taking the Lannister army. He said he would go so he feels he has to.

I don't think he could take the army with him even if he wanted to, which I don't think he does. Remember she's the queen, he may be a Lannister but she's the queen. That army is going nowhere without her say so. Also I think he knows she won't have the Mountain kill him unless he pushes her too far and I think sneaking off with her army is something he knows would be pushing her too far. Plus, that army is loyal to the queen, even if Jaime tricked them into thinking this was what she wanted what happens when the truth comes out? Now Jaime and Dany, assuming they make it north to her, have this large hostile army in their midst.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:35 pm

gameoverman wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:I don't think it's out of character for Jaime to head north alone. He is already 'betraying' his sister, the queen. He wouldn't further betray her by taking the Lannister army. He said he would go so he feels he has to.
I don't think he could take the army with him even if he wanted to, which I don't think he does. Remember she's the queen, he may be a Lannister but she's the queen. That army is going nowhere without her say so. Also I think he knows she won't have the Mountain kill him unless he pushes her too far and I think sneaking off with her army is something he knows would be pushing her too far. Plus, that army is loyal to the queen, even if Jaime tricked them into thinking this was what she wanted what happens when the truth comes out? Now Jaime and Dany, assuming they make it north to her, have this large hostile army in their midst.

How loyal is that army, really? This is a society that values patriarchy, so they may be more inclined to follow Jaime, particularly since he will now have the dragons on his side. Plus, it's obvious to everyone that she's insane. She blew up the damn Sept of Baelor.

Sectoid · Post by **Sectoid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:56 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
gameoverman wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:I don't think it's out of character for Jaime to head north alone. He is already 'betraying' his sister, the queen. He wouldn't further betray her by taking the Lannister army. He said he would go so he feels he has to.
I don't think he could take the army with him even if he wanted to, which I don't think he does. Remember she's the queen, he may be a Lannister but she's the queen. That army is going nowhere without her say so. Also I think he knows she won't have the Mountain kill him unless he pushes her too far and I think sneaking off with her army is something he knows would be pushing her too far. Plus, that army is loyal to the queen, even if Jaime tricked them into thinking this was what she wanted what happens when the truth comes out? Now Jaime and Dany, assuming they make it north to her, have this large hostile army in their midst.
How loyal is that army, really? This is a society that values patriarchy, so they may be more inclined to follow Jaime, particularly since he will now have the dragons on his side. Plus, it's obvious to everyone that she's insane. She blew up the damn Sept of Baelor.

Insanity is no disqualification for leadership.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:58 pm

Sectoid wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
gameoverman wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:I don't think it's out of character for Jaime to head north alone. He is already 'betraying' his sister, the queen. He wouldn't further betray her by taking the Lannister army. He said he would go so he feels he has to.
I don't think he could take the army with him even if he wanted to, which I don't think he does. Remember she's the queen, he may be a Lannister but she's the queen. That army is going nowhere without her say so. Also I think he knows she won't have the Mountain kill him unless he pushes her too far and I think sneaking off with her army is something he knows would be pushing her too far. Plus, that army is loyal to the queen, even if Jaime tricked them into thinking this was what she wanted what happens when the truth comes out? Now Jaime and Dany, assuming they make it north to her, have this large hostile army in their midst.
How loyal is that army, really? This is a society that values patriarchy, so they may be more inclined to follow Jaime, particularly since he will now have the dragons on his side. Plus, it's obvious to everyone that she's insane. She blew up the damn Sept of Baelor.
Insanity is no disqualification for leadership.

That doesn't address what I said, though. If you've got a choice between following a sane, competent leader who will be aligned with dragons vs. an insane, incompetent leader who has zero dragons, the more rational choice might be to go with Jaime (unless they're persuaded by staying away from the Army of the Dead).

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:59 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
El Guapo wrote:The Cersei-dying-in-childbirth theory is an interesting way of the prophecy being fulfilled (with younger-brother Jaime causing it by getting her pregnant), although I'm not sure how that's consistent with the parts of the prophecy that say that she will have three kids, or the part that says that the volunqar will wrap his hands around her throat.
/inserts Cheryl Tunt gif

OUTLAW COUNTRY!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:03 pm

McNutt wrote:
El Guapo wrote:with younger-brother Jaime causing it by getting her pregnant
Is he younger? I thought they were twins.

He was born second during the twins delivery. Hence he seems to sufficiently qualify as a "younger brother" for purposes of a cryptic prophecy.

Sectoid · Post by **Sectoid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:06 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Sectoid wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
gameoverman wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:I don't think it's out of character for Jaime to head north alone. He is already 'betraying' his sister, the queen. He wouldn't further betray her by taking the Lannister army. He said he would go so he feels he has to.
I don't think he could take the army with him even if he wanted to, which I don't think he does. Remember she's the queen, he may be a Lannister but she's the queen. That army is going nowhere without her say so. Also I think he knows she won't have the Mountain kill him unless he pushes her too far and I think sneaking off with her army is something he knows would be pushing her too far. Plus, that army is loyal to the queen, even if Jaime tricked them into thinking this was what she wanted what happens when the truth comes out? Now Jaime and Dany, assuming they make it north to her, have this large hostile army in their midst.
How loyal is that army, really? This is a society that values patriarchy, so they may be more inclined to follow Jaime, particularly since he will now have the dragons on his side. Plus, it's obvious to everyone that she's insane. She blew up the damn Sept of Baelor.
Insanity is no disqualification for leadership.
That doesn't address what I said, though. If you've got a choice between following a sane, competent leader who will be aligned with dragons vs. an insane, incompetent leader who has zero dragons, the more rational choice might be to go with Jaime (unless they're persuaded by staying away from the Army of the Dead).

Interesting allegory, no?
All mirrors to reality aside, the Lannister army may not be so loyal, especially after hiring the golden company. Not that the company will supplant them, but it is a slight, nonetheless. Having her general (Jamie) leave will shake them. It is a tough call though. Like you said what horror do you want to be on the end of? Dragons or undead? After that decision, do you want to be on the side of dragons against an insane ruler or against dragons or undead with an insane ruler at your back?

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El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:09 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Sectoid wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
gameoverman wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:I don't think it's out of character for Jaime to head north alone. He is already 'betraying' his sister, the queen. He wouldn't further betray her by taking the Lannister army. He said he would go so he feels he has to.
I don't think he could take the army with him even if he wanted to, which I don't think he does. Remember she's the queen, he may be a Lannister but she's the queen. That army is going nowhere without her say so. Also I think he knows she won't have the Mountain kill him unless he pushes her too far and I think sneaking off with her army is something he knows would be pushing her too far. Plus, that army is loyal to the queen, even if Jaime tricked them into thinking this was what she wanted what happens when the truth comes out? Now Jaime and Dany, assuming they make it north to her, have this large hostile army in their midst.
How loyal is that army, really? This is a society that values patriarchy, so they may be more inclined to follow Jaime, particularly since he will now have the dragons on his side. Plus, it's obvious to everyone that she's insane. She blew up the damn Sept of Baelor.
Insanity is no disqualification for leadership.
That doesn't address what I said, though. If you've got a choice between following a sane, competent leader who will be aligned with dragons vs. an insane, incompetent leader who has zero dragons, the more rational choice might be to go with Jaime (unless they're persuaded by staying away from the Army of the Dead).

Also in IRL history, if it comes down to choosing between loyalty to a commanding general and loyalty to the political head of state, it is very common for the soldiers to choose loyalty to the general (especially since, while Westeros does not have a FiveThirtyEight.com, it seems like Cersei's approval ratings are probably pretty low).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:10 pm

Anyway, I think either of two things will happen regarding Jaime / Cersei:

(1) Jaime marches north more or less by himself, has compelling banter with Tyrion and Brienne, helps organize the war against the white walkers. Following the defeat of the Night King, marches south with Tyrion / Jon / Danaerys, there's a battle with the Golden Company, afterwards Jaime goes to parley with Cersei ("I'm the only one she'll talk to!"), ends up strangling Cersei.

(2) Jaime organizes a mini-civil war within southern Westeros, fights the Golden Company, wins, talks to Cersei, winds up strangling her.

#1 seems the most likely of the two.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:12 pm

El Guapo wrote:Anyway, I think either of two things will happen regarding Jaime / Cersei:

(1) Jaime marches north more or less by himself, has compelling banter with Tyrion and Brienne, helps organize the war against the white walkers. Following the defeat of the Night King, marches south with Tyrion / Jon / Danaerys, there's a battle with the Golden Company, afterwards Jaime goes to parley with Cersei ("I'm the only one she'll talk to!"), ends up strangling Cersei.

(2) Jaime organizes a mini-civil war within southern Westeros, fights the Golden Company, wins, talks to Cersei, winds up strangling her.

#1 seems the most likely of the two.

I agree that point 1 is likely what will happen.

With that, I don't think we need to watch the final season, do we?

Sectoid · Post by **Sectoid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:16 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Anyway, I think either of two things will happen regarding Jaime / Cersei:

(1) Jaime marches north more or less by himself, has compelling banter with Tyrion and Brienne, helps organize the war against the white walkers. Following the defeat of the Night King, marches south with Tyrion / Jon / Danaerys, there's a battle with the Golden Company, afterwards Jaime goes to parley with Cersei ("I'm the only one she'll talk to!"), ends up strangling Cersei.

(2) Jaime organizes a mini-civil war within southern Westeros, fights the Golden Company, wins, talks to Cersei, winds up strangling her.

#1 seems the most likely of the two.
I agree that point 1 is likely what will happen.

With that, I don't think we need to watch the final season, do we?

It is going to be a shortened season anyway.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:23 pm

While I think it will be pretty easy to make the war with the night king bad-ass, I'm really unsure how you make it compelling. While Game of Thrones is typically grim (at least, until this season), I really don't think they would ever have the white walkers win. I'm guessing we'll see the white walkers sack Winterfell (as that would be a cool and compelling and emotional thing to see), but there's not going to be any real doubt on the outcome on that. There will be some doubt about which characters die in the conflict, but that's it.

Plus the whole "you just need to kill that guy" (pointing at the night king) bit from the Beyond the Wall episode strongly suggests that it will ultimately end with Jon killing the night king in single combat. Probably while hordes of wights are otherwise overrunning beleaguered forces - Jon and Dany will probably be flying in to try to deliver him and Longclaw to where the Night King is. Jon kills the night king, wights collapse.

Pretty sure I have about 90% of the final season at this point.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:32 pm

I'll still pay the $30 to watch it.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:37 pm

I also predict that I will be increasingly annoyed over the course of the season by the Starks and their allies getting surprised by things (probably including Cersei's treachery), despite essentially having access to the show scripts via Bran.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:38 pm

Maybe loyal was the wrong word to use. Cersei has a sword hanging over the heads of the army, their families are still back home. If you're in that army, Jaime has lied to you and got you to travel to the north with him, then you find out the queen never gave that order and now she's pissed off, are you going to be comfortable with turning against her? You are stuck in the north and everything that means anything to you is in the south with Cersei. Following Jaime gets you what?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:39 pm

gameoverman wrote:Maybe loyal was the wrong word to use. Cersei has a sword hanging over the heads of the army, their families are still back home. If you're in that army, Jaime has lied to you and got you to travel to the north with him, then you find out the queen never gave that order and now she's pissed off, are you going to be comfortable with turning against her? You are stuck in the north and everything that means anything to you is in the south with Cersei. Following Jaime gets you what?

Well, lying (or omitting the Queen's plans) is only one option. The other is basically being up front about what's going on and hoping that they choose loyalty to you over loyalty to Cersei.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:50 pm

Toe wrote:The story I am interested in is who will win the game of thrones (which, btw, is front and center this season, as it has been in every season). Everything else is really a backdrop to that for me. Sure, if the night king wins no one will win the game, but if he doesn't, it still is really the main story the way I see it.

I agree and that's why I say the two story lines, white walker/Iron Throne, must be resolved. It's just that who wins isn't important because let's face it, no matter who wins, a large portion of the audience will be disappointed or even angry.

Just to name a few, if Dany wins the throne, some will be satisfied, some will complain. If Sansa somehow winds up queen, some will love that twist and some will hate it. If Tyrion manages to get rid of the monarchy and it ends with the dismantling of the thone, some will love that ending, some will hate it.

All I'm saying is there needs to be an ending. The show can't end with the fight for the throne still going on. That would ruin the entire experience. Same with the white walker situation.

About the Jaime thing again, even if he was upfront with the army I don't think it would work. "Come with me men, we must fight the real threat or we will all die anyways". That sounds good until you, the army guy, think "Okay, but while we're marching north what will Cersei be doing? Making sure our families are well taken care of?" haha I doubt it.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:43 pm

Robert Baratheon Predicts The Future

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:46 pm

WFL Opening Night

Be sure to check out the crawl.

Toe · Post by **Toe** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:57 pm

King Joffrey - Misunderstood

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:15 am

Joffrey was right.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:59 pm

RAMSAY BOLTON: The Ultimate Kindest Man In Westeros

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:29 pm

Win a behind the scenes visit to the GoT set.

DD* · Post by DD* » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:58 am

Moliere wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:59 pm RAMSAY BOLTON: The Ultimate Kindest Man In Westeros

Hilarious!

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon May 07, 2018 12:00 pm

Congrats to The Mountain!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:34 am

The final season will officially be airing April 2019.

First up, the premiere month. The network announced Tuesday the final season will air in April — so it’s only five months away. HBO previously said the final season would air in the “first half” of 2019, so the actual season will start and finish well within that (first up for HBO is True Detective season 3 coming Jan. 13).

There's a video, but it's just footage from the prior season(s). Nothing new.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:57 pm

The waiting, man....

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:20 pm

Dogstar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:38 pm Am I the only one who really, really enjoyed the Arya - Brienne sparring scene? Echoes of Syrio Forel in her stance and movement, the cool move with the dagger at the end, and the dawning look of horror/appreciation on Sansa's face that Arya probably wasn't kidding about that list of people she's going to kill.

So, I'm late to the party - just watching S7 now and enjoying the ever loving hell out of it. Reading through everyone's comments here (from almost 2 years ago) is strange as it seems like opinions were rather mixed.

Regarding this fight scene, I think I re-watched it like 5 times -- it's fantastic. In addition, there's a lot more going on than you (or I) might have realized at first. Read more here. It really is crafty...

Anyway, I think it's been a fantastic run and this season in particular just feels tighter (not rushed). The dialogues, the character interactions - they're all really sharp. I'd thought Bronn was one of my favorite characters, but Tormund is also hilarious. Not sure if anyone is re-watching the show in anticipation of the series end, but maybe you'll see it differently now if you were "meh" on it then.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:44 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:20 pm watching S7 now and enjoying the ever loving hell out of it.

Season 7 is amazing - except for the next to last episode:

Spoiler:

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:28 am

Exodor wrote: ↑Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:44 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:20 pm watching S7 now and enjoying the ever loving hell out of it.

Season 7 is amazing - except for the next to last episode:

Spoiler:
that stupid awful episode where Jon and crew go north of the wall to retrieve a zombie. Stupid plan stupidly executed with massive plot holes and timing issues.

Yeah, that's probably the dumbest thing in the entire show.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:23 am

I don't even care because Tormund said funny things on that journey. Like anything else, if you nitpick I guess things start to come apart. Instead, I'm thankful a book series I started reading in 2003 is finally getting an ending 16+ years later courtesy of HBO.

Also, it's been almost 2 years since S7 aired. What's the +/- on spoiler tags at this point?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:24 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:20 pm Regarding this fight scene, I think I re-watched it like 5 times -- it's fantastic. In addition, there's a lot more going on than you (or I) might have realized at first. Read more here. It really is crafty...

From very very early, I found Arya to be the most compelling character. In such a huge cast of stories, hers is the most interesting and she might even be my favorite character of all time in any fiction. They have done such a masterful job of telling her tale. Of finding her way. Of ultimately rejecting the path the everyone has laid out for her, in favor of her own. And yet she's a sponge, demonstrably learning from nearly everyone she rejects.

Is it sill spoilery this late in the thread this late in the series?

Spoiler:

I always look forward to the story of Arya the most, breaker of paradigmatic chains.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:26 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:23 am I don't even care because Tormund said funny things on that journey. Like anything else, if you nitpick I guess things start to come apart. Instead, I'm thankful a book series I started reading in 2003 is finally getting an ending 16+ years later courtesy of HBO.

It's not really fair to call that a nitpick. I still love the show (and books), but that was a pretty major extended gaffe.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:35 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:24 am

Spoiler:
No where is it more prevalent than her relations with Brienne. From the beginning Arya has rejected the notion of separate spheres, that she should be kept from the things little boys do and be bound by the things little girls do. When she meets me with the apparent embodiment of growing up a girl rejecting the role of women in favor of the role of a man, she rejects that too. Being nobody should fit her perfect, but she examines that path beginning with innocence and ignorance and impatience but ultimately rejects that as well.

The only paths she did not reject through action to find her own way were paths that were ultimately covered by the deaths of her mentors.

Spoiler:

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:00 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:26 am
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:23 am I don't even care because Tormund said funny things on that journey. Like anything else, if you nitpick I guess things start to come apart. Instead, I'm thankful a book series I started reading in 2003 is finally getting an ending 16+ years later courtesy of HBO.
It's not really fair to call that a nitpick. I still love the show (and books), but that was a pretty major extended gaffe.

Yeah, I'm very forgiving when it comes to nit picks and criticisms about timing - but that episode was just so over the top that I can't even take it seriously.

My initial post was un-spoilered but I added the spoiler text because I wasn't sure if you had reached that episode yet. I didn't want you to miss out on the chance to experience that mess with fresh eyes.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:06 pm

I guess I'm just wrapped up in all the excitement of this whole thing coming to a final conclusion. I also agree that Arya is probably my favorite overall character on the show, at least in terms of her story and arc. Maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age, but the way it all unfolded didn't bother me. I did think it was a ridiculous proposition and no, on the whole how it all unfolded didn't make sense, but I was pressed to think of another way to wrap it all up and move things forward.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:07 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:06 pm I guess I'm just wrapped up in all the excitement of this whole thing coming to a final conclusion.

My wife still holds out hope that GRRM will finish the book series. I'm with you - happy that we're getting an ending to the story, even if it's not quite exactly what GRRM originally intended.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:30 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:35 am
LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:24 am

Spoiler:
No where is it more prevalent than her relations with Brienne. From the beginning Arya has rejected the notion of separate spheres, that she should be kept from the things little boys do and be bound by the things little girls do. When she meets me with the apparent embodiment of growing up a girl rejecting the role of women in favor of the role of a man, she rejects that too. Being nobody should fit her perfect, but she examines that path beginning with innocence and ignorance and impatience but ultimately rejects that as well.

The only paths she did not reject through action to find her own way were paths that were ultimately covered by the deaths of her mentors.

Spoiler:
Interesting take on the Brienne/Arya relationship. And I agree that Arya is probably the most interesting character on the show (besides fan favorite Tyrion, of course...but when you put a master thespian like Peter Dinklage in that kind of role, how can he not become a favorite?). But I don't find Arya's seeming rejection (not sure I'd use that word though) of Brienne's attempt to break out of the assigned gender roles of her time/place so illogical. I think Arya's somewhat disappointed that Brienne's doing so takes the shape of becoming almost completely masculine. She's rejected the role she's expected to take in her society, but in doing so she's discarded her sex in many ways. I believe Arya is rejecting the path she's been expected to follow...but on her own terms. She's becoming something completely unique, and not just adopting a male persona as a response.

Spoiler:

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:04 pm

Ah, I misunderstood then.

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:48 pm

I am also re watching the entire series as April approaches. Finishing up season 1 now. I was very surprised how many, what I thought at the time to be throw away lines were actually quite prophetic. Especially in regards to Jamie (my second favorite character after the Hound)

Jamie talking about Bran being cripple if he survives and how he would prefer a good clean death. Which is what he pines for after losing his hand.

Jamie joking about the Night's Watch being a ragtag band of losers protecting the kingdom from the boogie man. Ragging on John for going there, etc.

Re watching it reminded me how much a ass Jamie was in the beginning and how his character Arc has come so far. I just find him fascinating. He is no Hound however!