Game of Thrones Season 7

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:27 am

McNutt wrote:I know it's hard to cast kids as siblings, but watching Sansa looking down over a foot to talk to Arya was pretty funny. There is no universe in which these two could pass as even cousins.

Just because they don't look alike doesn't mean anything. They do a good job making Sansa look like Catelyn and Arya look like Ned.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:30 am

msteelers wrote:
McNutt wrote:I know it's hard to cast kids as siblings, but watching Sansa looking down over a foot to talk to Arya was pretty funny. There is no universe in which these two could pass as even cousins.
Just because they don't look alike doesn't mean anything. They do a good job making Sansa look like Catelyn and Arya look like Ned.

And yet this episode had Gendry talking about how tall Ned was.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:33 am

I knew the opening scene would bother people. I'm going to just choose to believe that the river's current helped push Bronn and Jamie far enough away from the battle that they were able to get away.

Overall I really liked the episode. Seeing some of the major characters meeting up is a lot of fun.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:43 am

After seeing what the dragons can do in the field why don't they have Dany fly Drogon north and have a little White Walker BBQ?

Seems like a better plan than dragging a wight down to King's Landing.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:47 am

Q: What, if any, defense do the W.W.s have vs dragons?

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:51 am

Zaxxon wrote:Q: What, if any, defense do the W.W.s have vs dragons?

An even BIGGER crossbow?

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:14 am

msteelers wrote:I knew the opening scene would bother people.

There were many things about that opening scene that bothered me. First, it was just cheap to end the last episode with this "oh no, Jaime is going to die" cliffhanger and then make up this improbably BS to write it off. Second, Jaime fell off next to a dragon and the Dothraki army, yet he somehow surfaces on a bank on the far side hidden from view.

So Tyrion sees Jaime attack the dragon and fall into the water. He's looking to see if his brother survives and is going to think he didn't because logic. So the next scene has Tyrion offering to go to King's Landing and have a secret meeting with Jaime.

What? Why in the world would Tyrion think a) Jaime is alive and b) Jaime somehow made it back to King's Landing? Say what you will about Martin (and I have a lot of bad things to say after the fourth and fifth books), but he would have never skipped past all of that. Jaime's journey back to King's Landing would have been explored in no fewer than 300 pages.

And what is the Unsullied doing at Casterly Rock? Are they starving to death? Judging by all the traveling that's happened, it has to have been at least two months since they were stranded. How does this army survive?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:17 am

Exodor wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Q: What, if any, defense do the W.W.s have vs dragons?
An even BIGGER crossbow?

It's either nothing or magic. Looks like the Night King was able to kill Bran's scout ravens with some sort of magic. He might be able to do something like that with the dragons, although presumably it's much harder to kill a dragon with magic than it is to kill a flock of birds.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:18 am

El Guapo wrote:
Exodor wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Q: What, if any, defense do the W.W.s have vs dragons?
An even BIGGER crossbow?
It's either nothing or magic. Looks like the Night King was able to kill Bran's scout ravens with some sort of magic. He might be able to do something like that with the dragons, although presumably it's much harder to kill a dragon with magic than it is to kill a flock of birds.

Kind of what I'm getting at. Dany isn't going to just fly out and see what happens. Assuming she can just have a wight fry is folly.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:21 am

Yeah, there was just a lot of dumb shit in this episode.

(1) I can suspend disbelief about Jaime being able to get out of the river (*maybe* it wasn't as deep as the top down shot made it look). But it's absurd that he would be able to waltz from there to King's Landing unmolested. Dany, Tyrion, and others all saw Jaime charge - they *know* he's there, and they know that he's incredibly important. Dany has a dragon and thousands of horse-mounted cavalry in an open field - at the very least they needed to explain how the hell he could get from there to King's Landing.

(2) I knew it was coming, but Jon going beyond the Wall is so dumb it causes me physical pain to see it. You are a king! Send people! Lend them your valyrian sword if that's so important. God damn. And that's not even touching how dumb the rest of the plan is.

Those are the main ones. I still enjoyed the episode, but there was a lot of stupidity in it.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:25 am

Zaxxon wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Exodor wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Q: What, if any, defense do the W.W.s have vs dragons?
An even BIGGER crossbow?
It's either nothing or magic. Looks like the Night King was able to kill Bran's scout ravens with some sort of magic. He might be able to do something like that with the dragons, although presumably it's much harder to kill a dragon with magic than it is to kill a flock of birds.
Kind of what I'm getting at. Dany isn't going to just fly out and see what happens. Assuming she can just have a wight fry is folly.

Yeah, that didn't bother me for the reasons you say, and Dany has other stuff to do.

It does seem like Dany should be exploring whether she can get someone else to ride dragons. She has three dragons, but only one can be in play at the moment because only she (as far as they know) can ride dragons, plus even deploying that one is risky because she's exposing herself to stray arrow fire. If she had least one other rider, that would make it easier to use the dragons in war, and open up options like "hey, go fly beyond the wall and confirm that the army of the dead is a real thing".

Sectoid · Post by **Sectoid** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:25 am

Exodor wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Q: What, if any, defense do the W.W.s have vs dragons?
An even BIGGER crossbow?

We have the biggest crossbow. Really, it is just the best. All the Wildlings tell us it is the best. And the Dragons paid for it.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:27 am

El Guapo wrote: Jon going beyond the Wall is so dumb it causes me physical pain to see it. You are a king!

But he's SEEN the white walkers!!! Only he can capture one. He can't just tell some capable warriors what he saw and give them insight. It just has to be him!!!

Yeah, that's really bad.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:28 am

El Guapo wrote: It does seem like Dany should be exploring whether she can get someone else to ride dragons.

I think she could ride one dragon and have the other two follow her lead. She has a deep connection with them, so I wouldn't be bothered by two riderless dragons attacking with her.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:32 am

McNutt wrote:
El Guapo wrote: It does seem like Dany should be exploring whether she can get someone else to ride dragons.
I think she could ride one dragon and have the other two follow her lead. She has a deep connection with them, so I wouldn't be bothered by two riderless dragons attacking with her.

They also seemed to do that in the final battle in Mereen, so that seems doable.

But still, even then it's still a significant limitation on their use that she has to be physically present.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:34 am

McNutt wrote:
El Guapo wrote: Jon going beyond the Wall is so dumb it causes me physical pain to see it. You are a king!
But he's SEEN the white walkers!!! Only he can capture one. He can't just tell some capable warriors what he saw and give them insight. It just has to be him!!!

Yeah, that's really bad.

Besides, there are other (still living) people in the Night's Watch that have seen one. Have them go along!

No wonder the northern lords are wanting a backsies on naming Jon the new King in the North.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:39 am

That's the attitude that got Jon killed on the wall. Know your place, dude.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:42 am

Zaxxon wrote:Q: What, if any, defense do the W.W.s have vs dragons?

No real clue, but maybe magic? In the books there's the magic horn that can supposedly control dragons that Euron has, another magic horn that can supposedly destroy The Wall... maybe they'll just give that stuff to them.

I liked that tiny little bit with Gilly reading the Maester's account of annulling Prince Rhaegar's marriage. I suppose that makes Jon a true Targaryen in name as well (assuming a marriage took place shortly thereafter) and makes him the true heir before Dany.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:50 am

Daveman wrote:I liked that tiny little bit with Gilly reading the Maester's account of annulling Prince Rhaegar's marriage. I suppose that makes Jon a true Targaryen in name as well (assuming a marriage took place shortly thereafter) and makes him the true heir before Dany.

That is obviously going to be an essential piece of evidence establishing Jon as a Targaryen. Still wanting to know how all these pieces will come together.

Edit - never mind. Bran knows. He'll be established as all seeing and, combined with the marriage entry in the book, people will realize that Jon is Targaryen.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:07 am

Another potential problem with Dany taking dragons to fight the white walkers: dragons and winter might not mix so well.

In general, though, this episode had so many dumb plot contrivances/holes just to get the story moving. This episode more than any other seems to have been really hurt by the shortened season and need to fly through things at warp speed.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:25 am

Agreed. I think this was the worst episode in quite some time.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:27 am

That was probably the best way (of myriad bad options) of having Jaime survive. Don't even bother trying to explain it - just have them pop up at a convenient location away from the fray. It was stupid, but it probably would have been worse if they had tried to rationalize it.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:31 am

So don't have him charge the dragon in the first place, then.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:34 am

Why not just have Bronn pull him into some bushes nearish to Dany, have Bronn hush Jaime and say they need to hide here until Dany leaves, and then show them leave at night? Would have accomplished the same thing but at least be reasonably plausible.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:34 am

El Guapo wrote:So don't have him charge the dragon in the first place, then.

Well, duh.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:44 am

So I'm assuming the poisoned Dornish girl is dead by now. I had thought those women would be shown again, but I guess not.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:46 am

McNutt wrote:So I'm assuming the poisoned Dornish girl is dead by now. I had thought those women would be shown again, but I guess not.

I'm thinking she didn't even poison her.
Let them spend every day wondering if this is the day she dies.......

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:03 pm

McNutt wrote:So I'm assuming the poisoned Dornish girl is dead by now. I had thought those women would be shown again, but I guess not.

Except for Oberyn, the show has done a poor job of covering the whole Dorne side of the books. I don't doubt this was their way of just ridding themselves of it. The Sand Snakes are dead, lack of leadership and transport... Dornish armies are just sitting around I guess.

I suppose I'm in the minority, but I didn't have any real issue with Jaime charging Dany. He just watched his troops get slaughtered and burned to a crisp by a seemingly unstoppable army and he was clearly upset. Then suddenly before him is the dragon, shot out of the sky and wounded (albeit not for long) while the leader of said army is tending to the dragon with her back turned.

I looked at it as a suicide run... I'm going to die but I'm taking out the Targaryen Queen with me.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:09 pm

I had no problem with his charge. His army was gone and so were his side's chances. Might as well die trying to kill the queen who was right in front of him.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:25 pm

McNutt wrote:So I'm assuming the poisoned Dornish girl is dead by now. I had thought those women would be shown again, but I guess not.

One of the actresses involved has said that they won't be showing them again. They are going to die off screen.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:35 pm

River: A round flat body of water that fluctuates between 90 feet deep and 4 feet deep, with no current. Yep, a river.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:36 pm

Jon has to go past the wall in hunt for the dead soldier because doing stupid stuff is what makes Dany hot for him. They eventually need to get married. Him being the King of the North and a true Targaryen gives the marriage a political angle too.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:44 pm

I mean, they set up him riding a dragon far too directly this episode for it to not happen.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:39 pm

msteelers wrote:
McNutt wrote:I know it's hard to cast kids as siblings, but watching Sansa looking down over a foot to talk to Arya was pretty funny. There is no universe in which these two could pass as even cousins.
Just because they don't look alike doesn't mean anything. They do a good job making Sansa look like Catelyn and Arya look like Ned.

Yet in the books, Arya is described as being "horse faced" and such homeliness seems to have been turned into an advantage during her wanderings.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:06 pm

Very uneven episode I thought. I did like parts, such as all the Davos/Gendry and the Jon/Dany bonding. But...

Hand waving Jaime's escape- BAD BAD BAD! They could have done without the pretending Jaime might be dead thing if that was their planned escape for him. So have him immediately swimming underwater at least instead of simply sinking. OR show us a bit of underwater action, as Bronn tries to save him.

Next. the commando raid to the north. It's stupid even from a superficial level. One zombie is going to convince Cersei there's an army of zombies out there and it's a threat to her? Cersei has a zombie under her command!

Tyrion didn't even take a look from high up on the path to see if the coast is clear? I suppose he thought he'd just blend in with all the other dwarves wandering around down there.

Arya/Littlefinger, good god that was painfully bad. That kind of skulking around is what I'd expect from cheesy low end tv. And so predictable too! I had to roll my eyes at that whole thing.

I think Cersei is lying to Jaime and I'm embarrassed for him that he'd take her word for it. I have to believe that the reason he does is it's the only way he sees any meaning to, well, life at this point. As he asked her before, what's it all for if their children are dead? It's just that it's such an obvious ploy.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:25 pm

Random pic

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:32 pm

gameoverman wrote:Cersei has a zombie under her command!

Right! What is this going to prove to Cersei, that there are zombies in the world? Maybe she'll think she can take them over too.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:49 pm

Maybe they'll catch zombie Hodor and have their own Robert Strong.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:54 am

Exodor wrote:After seeing what the dragons can do in the field why don't they have Dany fly Drogon north and have a little White Walker BBQ?

Seems like a better plan than dragging a wight down to King's Landing.

This. So much this.

After the previous week's excellent episode, I felt like this week was a total car wreck. I love the Inglorious Bastards, D&D-style adventuring party heading north, but what a stupid, stupid plan. Just send a dragon already. What with speed-of-Westeros travel, Drogon could head up there one morning, toast the Night King and his army of dead, and be back for lunch.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:00 am

Kurth wrote:
Exodor wrote:After seeing what the dragons can do in the field why don't they have Dany fly Drogon north and have a little White Walker BBQ?

Seems like a better plan than dragging a wight down to King's Landing.
This. So much this.

After the previous week's excellent episode, I felt like this week was a total car wreck. I love the Inglorious Bastards, D&D-style adventuring party heading north, but what a stupid, stupid plan. Just send a dragon already. What with speed-of-Westeros travel, Drogon could head up there one morning, toast the Night King and his army of dead, and be back for lunch.

On the Talk the Thrones show they were speculating about whether the Inglorious Bastards mission is going to end with Dany swooping in via dragon to save the day. Kind of seems like the only way it can end, given the shot in the season trailer with Jon and his crew surrounded by wights - they're presumably not all going to die (though honestly I would actually kind of like it if they did that given how phenomenally stupid their plan is), and it's hard to see how they get it out of that other than deus ex dragon.

Although I guess a surprise entrance by the Children of the Forest could do it too.