Game of Thrones Season 7

[GargoyleBoy]

#YossarianLives

#TormundLives

Tormund Giantsbane, First of His Name, King Beyond the Wall, Warden of the North.

[Jeff V]

Are we sure they are dead? I couldn't tell, because they didn't specifically show them dying. They could still be up on the part of the wall that is standing, and if that's the case we'll see them making the trek down to Castle Black to warn the others.

Fairly certain Beric Dondarrion is not dead. the Lord of Light didn't resurrect him 6 times to have him die off-screen on the wall.

We're gonna see that flaming sword again.

Since Beric is technically a zombie, perhaps he'll be passed unnoticed into the army of the dead and be an agent of its destruction from within.

But after this season I don't think the writers are clever enough to pull this off.

[GargoyleBoy]

Are we sure they are dead? I couldn't tell, because they didn't specifically show them dying. They could still be up on the part of the wall that is standing, and if that's the case we'll see them making the trek down to Castle Black to warn the others.

Fairly certain Beric Dondarrion is not dead. the Lord of Light didn't resurrect him 6 times to have him die off-screen on the wall.

We're gonna see that flaming sword again.

Since Beric is technically a zombie, perhaps he'll be passed unnoticed into the army of the dead and be an agent of its destruction from within.

But after this season I don't think the writers are clever enough to pull this off.

If they want to, they can just pull a Benjen Stark on him, and just pretend he doesn't exist until they need him again.

[Punisher]

Looks like WIC agrees with my reading. Still, I'd like to be wrong.

I agree with what you saw at the 3:00 mark; it does look like they were on the water side. I predict a season 8 episode 1 hand bursting out of the ice rubble and our heroes pulling themselves out gasping for breath but otherwise in good shape for the season.

It is hard to catch, maybe only 2 frames, but you can clearly see Bronn knocking both of them into the water...

[wonderpug]

Looks like WIC agrees with my reading. Still, I'd like to be wrong.

I agree with what you saw at the 3:00 mark; it does look like they were on the water side. I predict a season 8 episode 1 hand bursting out of the ice rubble and our heroes pulling themselves out gasping for breath but otherwise in good shape for the season.

It is hard to catch, maybe only 2 frames, but you can clearly see Bronn knocking both of them into the water...

No, they were about to fall into the water but Salladhor Saan rode in on his speedy horseboat, put them on top in his place, then died in a noble but brief cameo sacrifice.

[Zaxxon]

[ImLawBoy]

So the Night King had no way to take down the Wall before, right? So the stupid plan to get the wight, which led Danaerys to fly North to save the crew, is responsible for the destruction of the Wall and the emperilment of all mankind?

That aside, I did enjoy the finale. A couple silly scenes, but mostly solid.

I think gaining the dragon sped up the Night King's timetable. He didn't need to bring down the wall. He only needed to get through it. And the Wildlings have shown us already that it's possible.

Once he got the dragon, though, the wall was just not a concern any longer.

EDIT to add: Those big-ass chains they used to haul up the dragon? Yeah - those were for the wall. They were gonna pull down the gates. They couldn't have had any clue they were gonna need to dredge up a dragon corpse.

I don't think they could have gone through/over the wall due to the "enchantments". I think the wall had to come down in some way for the Night King to cross.

[EvilHomer3k]

I wish they'd bring Syrio Forel back. He was a great character in S1.

Great episode. I don't think Tormund or Beric are dead. I do think the scene was handled in a way to make them look like they could be dead.

When the hound told the mountain he knew who was coming for him anyone know who that was? Death? Some god? Arya? Arya would be a very odd choice. Death comes for everyone. It indicates to me that someone, a physical person, is coming for him.

Of COURSE Cersei is going to lie.

Despite it being predictable, Watching Littlefinger get his was very satisfying.

How on earth are they going to cram 2 full on wars into 6 episodes. That seems like it's impossible to me without severely shorting the battle scenes and the character scenes. I hope they don't find some magical way to kill the lich king and then all the others die. That will be disappointing (even if I know that's what they are going to do - 1-2 episodes with them getting beat down hard and then a 15 minute scene where Jon rides a dragon and kills the entire wight army with one swing.)

Overall some ups and downs this season but I thought it was great overall.

[Zaxxon]

When the hound told the mountain he knew who was coming for him anyone know who that was? Death? Some god? Arya? Arya would be a very odd choice. Death comes for everyone. It indicates to me that someone, a physical person, is coming for him.

Um, he meant the Hound.

[Exodor]

How on earth are they going to cram 2 full on wars into 6 episodes. That seems like it's impossible to me without severely shorting the battle scenes and the character scenes.

I read on the internets that the Season 8 episodes will each be 80-90 minutes long.

I also read that they probably won't be ready until 2019.



I really enjoyed the episode last night although it didn't make up for the stupidity of the mission north of the wall. I assume that entire sequence was to deliver a dragon to the night king but it could have been handled so much better - instead of the stupid "capture a walker" plan they could have flown all three dragons up for a Walker BBQ and then let the Olympic Javelin Champion do his thing.

[GargoyleBoy]

I don't think they could have gone through/over the wall due to the "enchantments". I think the wall had to come down in some way for the Night King to cross.

Despite magic actually existing, people's knowledge of it in Westeros is very sketchy. I wouldn't trust a few vague pronouncements of "enchantments". Clearly, they were coming for the wall. They had big-ass chains, giants, and a huge army. They weren't just going to stand in front of it and

[Sudy]

Sorry, but that's a weak-ass way for Baelish to go, as much as he deserved it. Would have been far more impactful earlier in the season, or perhaps even as somewhat of a surprise at the end of the last. The past master manipulator spent this season doing little of anything, and went out with a whimper. I was also disappointed that his functional counterpart/moral opposite Varys had little to do this season.

[Punisher]

I also read that they probably won't be ready until 2019.

I believe this is to appease all the people complaining about the fast travel.. Now they can say "See? It took them a year and a half to get to Winterfell.. You happy now?"

[Skinypupy]

The past master manipulator spent this season doing little of anything, and went out with a whimper.

Doing little...except actively working to disrupt the entire power structure in the North.

I was also disappointed that his functional counterpart/moral opposite Varys had little to do this season.

Agreed.

[Sudy]

The past master manipulator spent this season doing little of anything, and went out with a whimper.

Doing little...except actively working to disrupt the entire power structure in the North.

But horribly unconvincingly. Or perhaps I've just been reading too much io9, who were extremely down on this storyline.

He always seemed to have a master plan for sitting on the throne himself, as an outsider. To this end he made amazing strides over the past few seasons. This season's scheming seemed like such small fry in comparison. I'd have been more satisfied had he hinted at his plan to somehow take the Iron Throne with the north at his back or something, with or without Sansa as his queen. But his development seemed so stunted in contrast to how far the other players moved this season. Perhaps his unceremonious demise should be considered a casualty of the show's increased pacing.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

The story line as a whole was pretty bad. In just the previous episode Arya and Sansa had it out with Arya at one point walking towards Sansa with a dagger pointed at her. They were the only two people in the room, so what was the point if they were all on the same side? Or is the implication that they were all going at it until Bran changes their mind off screen? And what was the point of sending Brienne away from Winterfell other than to give her the chances to talk to the Hound and make googly-eyes at Jaime?

[McNutt]

The Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger storyline was the biggest disappointment for me. The episode as a whole was a big improvement though.

[wonderpug]

The story line as a whole was pretty bad. In just the previous episode Arya and Sansa had it out with Arya at one point walking towards Sansa with a dagger pointed at her. They were the only two people in the room, so what was the point if they were all on the same side? Or is the implication that they were all going at it until Bran changes their mind off screen? And what was the point of sending Brienne away from Winterfell other than to give her the chances to talk to the Hound and make googly-eyes at Jaime?

Dagger scene I feel is them acting things out with the hopes that Littlefinger or his spies are watching. Same thing with sending Brienne away -- Littlefinger was trying to convince Sansa to do it, so keep going along.

[EvilHomer3k]

When the hound told the mountain he knew who was coming for him anyone know who that was? Death? Some god? Arya? Arya would be a very odd choice. Death comes for everyone. It indicates to me that someone, a physical person, is coming for him.

Um, he meant the Hound.

I didn't get that at all. Still don't. They've had encounters before and not once did I get the sense that The Hound was out to kill The Mountain. I suppose it makes more sense than some unknown person coming for him.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

The story line as a whole was pretty bad. In just the previous episode Arya and Sansa had it out with Arya at one point walking towards Sansa with a dagger pointed at her. They were the only two people in the room, so what was the point if they were all on the same side? Or is the implication that they were all going at it until Bran changes their mind off screen? And what was the point of sending Brienne away from Winterfell other than to give her the chances to talk to the Hound and make googly-eyes at Jaime?

Dagger scene I feel is them acting things out with the hopes that Littlefinger or his spies are watching. Same thing with sending Brienne away -- Littlefinger was trying to convince Sansa to do it, so keep going along.

One theory I read that seems possible is that they weren't really acting at all and it wasn't until Arya gave Sansa the dagger that Sansa realized Arya would never want to be the Lady of Winterfell. Arya was kept in the dark of Sansa's plans to turn on Littlefinger until it happens. Of course, that makes the scene where they are buddy/buddy after the trial less believable.

[Zaxxon]

When the hound told the mountain he knew who was coming for him anyone know who that was? Death? Some god? Arya? Arya would be a very odd choice. Death comes for everyone. It indicates to me that someone, a physical person, is coming for him.

Um, he meant the Hound.

I didn't get that at all. Still don't. They've had encounters before and not once did I get the sense that The Hound was out to kill The Mountain. I suppose it makes more sense than some unknown person coming for him.

He's definitely after his brother. Has been since at least 1998. This isn't the quote I'm thinking of, but it helps. From season 4:

[at night, Arya recites the names of the people she wants dead]
Arya Stark: Joffrey... Cersei... Walder Frey... Meryn Trant... Tywin Lannister... the Red Woman... Beric Dondarrion... Thoros of Myr... Ilyn Payne... the Mountain.
Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: [irritated] Would you shut up?
Arya Stark: I can't sleep until I say the names.
Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: The names of every fucking person in Westeros?
Arya Stark: Only the ones I'm going to kill.
Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: [sneers] Hate's as good a thing as any to keep a person going. Better than most.
[slight pause]
Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: We come across my brother, maybe we can both cross a name off our list.
Arya Stark: If he were here right now, what would you do?
[the Hound glances at Arya for a long moment before answering]
Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: I'd tell him to shut the fuck up so I can get some sleep. Go on, get it over with, your list of doomed men.
Arya Stark: I'm almost done. Only one name left.
Sandor 'The Hound' Clegane: Go on.
Arya Stark: The Hound.
[the Hound looks at Arya, saying nothing]

[gameoverman]

Also, anyone have an idea why Tyrion might have a problem with Dany and Jon/Aegon having a relationship? He looked pretty worried outside her room

Tyrion previously wanted to talk about who would take over after Dany was gone, and she put that conversation off. That's not a problem because Tyrion could always talk to her later about it.

I think is that look is Tyrion's concern that it's now possible that not only has that decision been made, but it was made without his consultation. I think he'd prefer to sit down with Dany and go over her options with her, he is her hand after all. Now he sees there's a very real possibility that Jon will be who she listens to, he might be king, and he might be the one to dictate the future now.

edit: I don't believe the intention was a cliffhanger with Tormund and Beric. I think it was supposed to be suspenseful, so we saw a lot of the action from their point of view. But remember the people who thought Jaime died? Yeah, that's not how this show does this sort of thing.

I think Bran filled both his sisters in on everything from the start. The entire Sansa/Arya thing was a long con to buy time to get their ducks in a row. I imagine they needed to establish the timelines of everything and get their 'case' ready. Once they had that, they call that meeting and it's on. I think where they are, there's no privacy really. If a Littlefinger, a spy chief if ever there was one, is around then you have to assume someone is listening in.

[Kurth]

Also, anyone have an idea why Tyrion might have a problem with Dany and Jon/Aegon having a relationship? He looked pretty worried outside her room

Tyrion previously wanted to talk about who would take over after Dany was gone, and she put that conversation off. That's not a problem because Tyrion could always talk to her later about it.

I think is that look is Tyrion's concern that it's now possible that not only has that decision been made, but it was made without his consultation. I think he'd prefer to sit down with Dany and go over her options with her, he is her hand after all. Now he sees there's a very real possibility that Jon will be who she listens to, he might be king, and he might be the one to dictate the future now.

Except, we know Tyrion genuinely likes Jon and has a lot of respect for him. It's not like Dany's shacking up with some dolt. Wouldn't Tyrion be happy to see the beginnings of a solid alliance between two of the most powerful houses in Westeros?

[MHS]

Maybe he's just a pervert listening in, and also sad because he loves/lust after her too.

[msteelers]

I thought it was linked in this thread, but I read an article that quoted Dinklage as saying that Tyrion had developed feelings for Dany, and it was preventing him from giving her good advice. If true, I don't think they did a good job conveying that in the show, but it certainly makes his advice this season make more sense. And it would explain his reaction in the hallway.

[pr0ner]

Maybe he's just a pervert listening in, and also sad because he loves/lust after her too.

I actually said "poor Tyrion" out loud to my TV from the sad look on his face and the way he walked away.

[Sudy]

I think Bran filled both his sisters in on everything from the start. The entire Sansa/Arya thing was a long con to buy time to get their ducks in a row. I imagine they needed to establish the timelines of everything and get their 'case' ready. Once they had that, they call that meeting and it's on. I think where they are, there's no privacy really. If a Littlefinger, a spy chief if ever there was one, is around then you have to assume someone is listening in.

OK, but then how come Littlefinger wasn't spying on those meetings? I want to suspend my disbelief. But too much of this plot went unexplained.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I actually said "Poor Jorah" out lout because I assumed it would be him sulking before I realized it was Tyrion.

One thing that has been pointed out is that we don't know what Tyrion and Cersei said to each other before coming back to the Dragonpit. One possibility, even if only a slight possibility, is that Tyrion agreed to do something for Cersei to convince her to join forces with Dany against the undead. What that something is, I don't know, but if it appeased Cersei it probably isn't something Tyrion wants to do.

[msteelers]

I think Bran filled both his sisters in on everything from the start. The entire Sansa/Arya thing was a long con to buy time to get their ducks in a row. I imagine they needed to establish the timelines of everything and get their 'case' ready. Once they had that, they call that meeting and it's on. I think where they are, there's no privacy really. If a Littlefinger, a spy chief if ever there was one, is around then you have to assume someone is listening in.

OK, but then how come Littlefinger wasn't spying on those meetings? I want to suspend my disbelief. But too much of this plot went unexplained.

I don't think Sansa and Arya were working together the entire time. I think the conflict between them was real this season. Sansa clearly didn't trust Littlefinger this season, but she also was scared of Arya once she saw her for who she really is. Arya also didn't trust Sansa once she saw her acting as Lady of Winterfell.

My personal belief (filling in the cracks a little, since none of this is stated on the show) is that things changed when Littlefinger told her to think through other peoples motivations, starting with the worst case scenario. He ran through the worst case scenarios for Arya, and they made a lot of sense until the very end. Her actions only made sense from a worst case scenario if Arya wanted to be Lady of Winterfell. She doesn't, and Sansa knew that. Feeling better about trusting Arya, she could have pulled her and Bran in to plan on what to do about Littlefinger, leading to the awesome confrontation.

[gameoverman]

I think Bran filled both his sisters in on everything from the start. The entire Sansa/Arya thing was a long con to buy time to get their ducks in a row. I imagine they needed to establish the timelines of everything and get their 'case' ready. Once they had that, they call that meeting and it's on. I think where they are, there's no privacy really. If a Littlefinger, a spy chief if ever there was one, is around then you have to assume someone is listening in.

OK, but then how come Littlefinger wasn't spying on those meetings? I want to suspend my disbelief. But too much of this plot went unexplained.

Well, when the siblings are hanging out around that tree, they have some alone time. Also, this was a trap for Littlefinger. The idea was to dangle bait out there and see what he does. So my thinking is:
1. Bran, when they are alone at the tree and LF is not on alert and not spying, clues them in on what's what.
2. The three of them realize they need to eliminate LF.
3. They decide to sucker him into a Sansa vs Arya plot, thereby allowing him to hang himself
4. This is where they start doing things to get on his radar, so now from this point forward they speak as if someone is watching/listening at all times.
5. He takes the bait and his fate is sealed.

Think of all the times we've seen him at meetings where he's always lurking in the back or on the sidelines, perking up every time he hears something which sounds like an opportunity to scheme. They took advantage of that by creating some personal drama that he couldn't resist.

edit: I don't think Tyrion made some kind of secret deal with Cersei because of what happened later. The moment it's clear that army is not coming from the south, it's obvious Cersei was lying when she agreed to help. There's no upside for Tyrion here. If you're Tyrion would you honestly turn to Dany and say "Hmmm, I don't know what to tell you. I truly thought she was going to help us"? Anyone could see how stupid that sounds. I think what happened is Cersei decided, for her own reasons, to lie about helping. One thing it accomplishes is get her enemies away from the city, which allows the Golden Company space to arrive and disembark unmolested.

[EvilHomer3k]

I think it's more of Sansa figuring it out and then confronting him. We'll probably never know (until the blu-ray extras come out).

[msteelers]

I think it's more of Sansa figuring it out and then confronting him. We'll probably never know (until the blu-ray extras come out).

A lot of information used against him could only be known by Bran, so there had to be some level of coordination. I also think that Arya went into that final confrontation knowing exactly what was about to happen. I didn't get the sense at all that she was taken by surprise.

[hepcat]

I miss the days when this show wasn't about wars, but about the moments leading up to them. The machinations of powerful and/or clever people. Threats that were made quietly, and the consequences of being good in a world that rewarded the treacherous.

Now it's The Walking Dead: the Conan Years.

I hope Glen doesn't die this time...

[Punisher]

I think it's more of Sansa figuring it out and then confronting him. We'll probably never know (until the blu-ray extras come out).

A lot of information used against him could only be known by Bran, so there had to be some level of coordination. I also think that Arya went into that final confrontation knowing exactly what was about to happen. I didn't get the sense at all that she was taken by surprise.

Ditto.. I don't think any of the trio (Bran, Sansa, Arya) were surprised... I think after Arya gave Sansa the note is when they started coming together.
and I loved LF's expression when he tried to push off everything as rumors and then Bran started spouting off stuff LF knew no one could know.. That was his Oh S,t moment..
and the Vales response was priceless...
I will miss him though.... He was an interesting character...

Mostly I'm just pissed at the 18 month wait..... Regardless if the reasons HBO gives, I don't think it's necessary... unless they are just pushing it to give GRRM time to finish the last book.... In which case, we may never have a final season...

On a side note, I never read the books, but I did love his Wild Cards series, so once he finishes, I may give them a read...

[McNutt]

One thing that I had to remind myself is that Arya hated Sansa after they were separated. It wouldn't take much to side Arya against Sansa and I kept thinking "Arya should be so happy to be back with Sansa."

[MonkeyFinger]

Interesting article about this season's finale: The show that just ghosted everyone.

[The Meal]

Interesting article about this season's finale: The show that just ghosted everyone.

Spot on.

[Zaxxon]

Interesting article about this season's finale: The show that just ghosted everyone.

Spot on.

Thirded.

[stimpy]

I have to say that from my seat, it's nice to not have had any preconceived notions about this series and what it should've, could've or would've been.
I'm able to watch it for what it is, which imo is a way better than average show. Flawed? Sure. What show isn't. But at the end of the day, it's been one of the best things I've seen on tv in quite awhile and I'm thankful for my nerd ignorance.
By tiny brain hurts just thinking about all the flaws people are finding.

[Moliere]

Has anyone talked about the mining and smithing of Dragon glass? I can't imagine there are many blacksmiths around that know how to build weapons with that material. Like insta-travel will there now be insta-mining and mass insta-production of these weapons?