Adventures in smoking (meat, that is)

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:13 pm

My oldest son has a special diet and eating difficulties, which means I end up making large portions of easy to chew/cut up meat for him regularly and then portion it out into Ziplocs and freeze them for easy preparation. I was making whole chickens and pork shoulders in the oven. This worked great for the chicken - cooks pretty quick. It took a long time for the pork (6-7 hours), though, and since my wife is a vegetarian, she hated having the house smell of pork all day (and really the next day, too).

Well, I had some Marriott points that were going to expire since I don't travel much for work anymore, so I used them to grab this smoker. It's a cheapo unit (with some pretty bad Amazon reviews), but I figured I'd give it a shot. A couple of weeks ago I set it up and started a 7.5 lb pork shoulder to smoke. I made the mistake of grabbing the match light Kingsford charcoal instead of the regular kind, but I only used that to get the initial fire going. I ran out and grabbed a blue bag of Kingsford for when I'd need to be adding charcoal. I grabbed some pecan wood chunks to get the smoke going.

Things seemed to be going OK, although it was hard to tell because the thermometer built into the dome is useless. I bought another thermometer to try to check the temperature, but I'm not sure how accurate it was, either. When things seemed to be cooling off, I'd add some more charcoal (not the quick light stuff - that would make everything taste like lighter fluid) and/or more wood. My goal was to keep the heat in the 225-250 F range and to get the meat to 195-203 F.

After about 13 hours or so, I couldn't get the meat over 170 F and I really wanted to go to bed. I just wanted to get over the 195 mark so that everything would pull apart nicely, so I stuck it in the oven at 300. Of course, I fell asleep on the couch, and when I woke up 3 hours later, the temp had reached 208. It was fine, though - still nice and moist. A total of 16 hours of cooking time is a bit much, though.

I learned that you can have too much smoke in your pulled pork. It was almost overwhelming when I first tried it. Fortunately, it seemed to mellow out over the next few days before I portioned it out into the freezer. Next time I'll use less wood.

I also need to do something about improving air flow in the smoker so that the heat goes higher. I'll probably also need to invest in a better thermometer to make sure things are cooking at a good temp consistently.

Does anyone else do any smoking? What kind of smoker do you use? Any tips for a novice? I want to branch out into other types of meat, but since the pork shoulder is supposedly very forgiving (and since I need it for my son), I'll probably keep with that for a bit before trying something new.

grumpy · Post by **grumpy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:23 pm

Just as an alternative to mention if it hasn't occurred, try pressure cookers? There are good, low-fuss electronic ones. Many ways to produce flavorful, fall apart meat in under an hour.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:35 pm

That's something I should probably look into, especially during the colder months when I really don't want to spend time outside fighting the elements to get the smoker temperature up.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:15 pm

I only ever used a Weber (standard kettle grill, not a smoker). Pork shoulder usually smoked in < 6 hours, but I might have been a little impatient and started adding more coals. Fish took about an hour or so.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:17 pm

I have a buddy that swears by his Big Green Egg, but that's not a smoker, it's a lifestyle.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:31 pm

Its also a bank full of cash.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:42 pm

Never could warrant a smoker, I don't even really warrant a grill.

That said, cant you slow cook pork in your garage to keep from "stinking up the house"... I love the way my slow cooker makes my house smell... Only it keeps me hungry. I'm all about slow cooking chili or meatballs or a tip roast or pork chops and I slow cooked a whole chicken in water once. It made for fine ingredient leftovers but the the meal... not so much.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:49 pm

LordMortis wrote: I slow cooked a whole chicken in water once. It made for fine ingredient leftovers but the the meal... not so much.

Pro tip: Take the feathers off first.

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:52 pm

I have one of these that I use for gas / charcoal grilling and smoking. The smoke box attachment I bought about 16 months ago and have used it probably 8-10 times.

I have done a beef brisket or two but baby back pork ribs are usually my go to meat.

I don't know how this relates since your configuration looks a little different but the first step is to start a charcoal fire in the smoke box.

While that is getting ready I'll remove the ribs from the package and depending on how much work I feel like doing I'll remove or leave the membrane that holds the rack together. It's on the 'back' side where the bones are. Some people swear by removing them, saying that it provides a more tender finished product. I think I tend to agree but it can be a pain in the a** to remove so often as not I'll leave it.

Next, I'll hit both sides of the rack(s) with whatever rub I'm using, usually Rudy's Rub (bought across the highway at the original location

)

When the fire is ready I'll place the ribs on the charcoal side of the pit (the one next to the smoke box in the picture) and drop a handful of pecan chips onto the fire that I've had soaking in a bowl of water. I'll also put a foil pan or old baking pan of water at the bottom of the pit directly beneath the ribs to help keep them moist.

From that point I usually add pecan chips or more charcoal every 15-30 min for about 4 hours. The ribs will form a nice dark crust.

Finally, I'll remove them from the pit and wrap them in foil. This step is the one where I am currently experimenting but before the foil is closed up I pack about 1/2" of brown sugar on top of the ribs. They go into the oven at 200 degrees for another hour or two.

You can put them back on the grill for this last step but you don't want the temperature over 200 and I'd rather put them in the oven for the last step instead of having to tend the fire another couple of hours.

They will fall apart when finished and the smoky / sweet flavor is amazing.

Good luck to you. Smoking stuff on the pit is one of my favorite things to do and a great excuse for me to drink beer for several hours straight

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:13 pm

Redfive wrote:I have one of these that I use for gas / charcoal grilling and smoking. The smoke box attachment I bought about 16 months ago and have used it probably 8-10 times.

That setup looks cool. I've heard that the smoker boxes can be a real challenge to maintain temperature unless you go high end (or higher end than I'm willing to go at this point).

Redfive wrote:When the fire is ready I'll place the ribs on the charcoal side of the pit (the one next to the smoke box in the picture) and drop a handful of pecan chips onto the fire that I've had soaking in a bowl of water. I'll also put a foil pan or old baking pan of water at the bottom of the pit directly beneath the ribs to help keep them moist.

Turns out soaking wood chips is a myth. Well, it's not a myth - people soak them for real - but it's a myth that you should soak them for better results. The short of that article is that the wood doesn't absorb anything but a negligible amount of water, and adding wet wood leads to poor smoke and cools your heat source.

I do want to try ribs at some point, but I think I need to control my heat better to get proper results. I figure I can smoke them 'til they're just about done, and then throw them on the Weber gas grill with some sauce for a few minutes to finish them.

LordMortis wrote:That said, cant you slow cook pork in your garage to keep from "stinking up the house"

Possibly, but it's a pain in the ass to schlep out to the garage, and there's very little room in there what with the cars and all. I might be better off using the pressure cooker method to speed things up during the cold weather.

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:24 pm

Interesting about the chips. Will have to go without soaking next time and see if I can tell a difference.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:42 pm

The best website for smoking is amazingribs.com

They have a wealth of information backed by science!

What you encountered at 170 degrees is the dreaded stall. The moisture in the meat comes to the surface and evaporates preventing the temperature from rising. The technique around it is to wrap it tightly in foil along with some moisture depending on the cut of meat. Keeps in nice and juicy and adds a bit of flavor. Putting it in the oven works too as the smoke typically doesn't penetrate that deep into the cooking.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:48 pm

I've been smoking for 4 years now. I just bought a Traeger and I love it. You are right, pork takes a long time, but it's my favorite and it's worth the effort and time.

You mentioned it was taking a long time to get past 170 degrees. That's known as the stall. What happens is around that temp, the meat starts to sweat and cools internally. It causes a delay from reaching your desired temp. There are tricks to speed it up, but I just let it sit and wait, you just have to plan for it in your prep.

Learn more here http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_techniq ... stall.html

Bookmark that site. It's my go to. Also, try their memphis dust rub. It's awesome on pork.

What wood did you use? Mesquite is quite heavy. I like hickory the best. Apple is pretty tame as well.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:49 pm

naednek wrote:I've been smoking for 4 years now. I just bought a Traeger and I love it. You are right, pork takes a long time, but it's my favorite and it's worth the effort and time.

Pellet grills are incredible.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:51 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Redfive wrote:I have one of these that I use for gas / charcoal grilling and smoking. The smoke box attachment I bought about 16 months ago and have used it probably 8-10 times.
That setup looks cool. I've heard that the smoker boxes can be a real challenge to maintain temperature unless you go high end (or higher end than I'm willing to go at this point).
.

That was my first smoker. I kinda miss it, only because of when I just want to cook up a hamburger quickly. The Traeger uses up too much pellets when preheating (it's really a convection over with the ability to smoke)

It's a great starter smoker, just takes up a lot of space. But we had some good eats using that.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:51 pm

noxiousdog wrote:The best website for smoking is amazingribs.com

They have a wealth of information backed by science!

What you encountered at 170 degrees is the dreaded stall. The moisture in the meat comes to the surface and evaporates preventing the temperature from rising. The technique around it is to wrap it tightly in foil along with some moisture depending on the cut of meat. Keeps in nice and juicy and adds a bit of flavor. Putting it in the oven works too as the smoke typically doesn't penetrate that deep into the cooking.

That's where I got a lot of the information I used when cooking (it's also where I linked to the "don't soak your wood" article). I assumed at first I hit the stall, but after being stalled there for so long, I was worried that I just wasn't getting enough heat. I didn't want to try the wrap technique, because Amazing Ribs seemed to discourage it for home smokers (or at least novice ones), saying it was more of a competition thing. I was thinking of trying a smaller piece of meat next time, since I really did get a big shoulder. If I stall out again, I might have to try the wrap.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:55 pm

naednek wrote:Also, try their memphis dust rub. It's awesome on pork.

That's what I used. Very easy to throw together, too.

naednek wrote:What wood did you use? Mesquite is quite heavy. I like hickory the best. Apple is pretty tame as well.

I used pecan. I actually meant to grab apple, but when I got home, I saw it was pecan instead.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:55 pm

You will stall on a thick piece of meat like pork shoulder, and the Texas Crutch is not difficult. I can't really think of a reason not to do it on pork.

The only place I wouldn't crutch is on salmon or if I really, really wanted brisket bark.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:56 pm

well, controlling the heat also has to do with the equipment you have. you can try and seal it better than the company did, or buy a better smoker.

The Green Egg is awesome, but it is expensive like the traeger. I had the best smoked prime rib the other day at my aunt's house. She used the green egg. It was to die for. Seriously, that would be my last meal if I had the choice.

Also the more you smoke the better it'll be in terms of knowing how long or high you should smoke.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:58 pm

noxiousdog wrote:You will stall on a thick piece of meat like pork shoulder, and the Texas Crutch is not difficult. I can't really think of a reason not to do it on pork.

The only place I wouldn't crutch is on salmon or if I really, really wanted brisket bark.

Reading about it here, this is the part that had me against it:

On the downside, wrapping in foil can seriously damage the bark, the crispy exterior made of dehydrated meat, smoke, and rub, that is in many ways the best part of low and slow cookery. And you have to get the timing right. Too long in foil and you end up with mush.

. . .

I never crutch pulled pork or ribs at home. The improvement is so small I just don't bother. It is more trouble than it is worth. But I always crutch brisket. I think it makes a significant difference. I know you saw it on TV. But until you master the basics, skip the Crutch.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:01 pm

naednek wrote:well, controlling the heat also has to do with the equipment you have. you can try and seal it better than the company did, or buy a better smoker.

Yeah, my smoker is really cheap and (based on Amazon reviews) not well constructed. I figure it's worth a try since I just used the Marriott points on it. One of the Amazon reviews says that you can improve it by, among other things, drilling some holes in the base to get better airflow. The common complaint seems to be that it burns too low, and that was consistent with my experience.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:01 pm

This one below looks a lot like the one my brother used. He lived in Florida and smoked tons of fresh seafood. Worked great and the food was wonderful. His smoker looked old too.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:01 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:You will stall on a thick piece of meat like pork shoulder, and the Texas Crutch is not difficult. I can't really think of a reason not to do it on pork.

The only place I wouldn't crutch is on salmon or if I really, really wanted brisket bark.
Reading about it here, this is the part that had me against it:
On the downside, wrapping in foil can seriously damage the bark, the crispy exterior made of dehydrated meat, smoke, and rub, that is in many ways the best part of low and slow cookery. And you have to get the timing right. Too long in foil and you end up with mush.

. . .

I never crutch pulled pork or ribs at home. The improvement is so small I just don't bother. It is more trouble than it is worth. But I always crutch brisket. I think it makes a significant difference. I know you saw it on TV. But until you master the basics, skip the Crutch.

Shrug. I like moist pulled pork anyway and couldn't care less about the bark.

I wouldn't do ribs either as it's not a thick cut. ( > 3" )

I would plan on your crutch to destroy the bark, but it will cook faster.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:06 pm

noxiousdog wrote:Shrug. I like moist pulled pork anyway and couldn't care less about the bark.

Everything else is foreign language but I concur with this assessment, though I suspect ND move a different direction after that as I am known to live me some KC style BBQ for which I would like that pork marinade in and certain Texans here deny the what KC does is BBQ and is offensive to meat.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:07 pm

LordMortis wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:Shrug. I like moist pulled pork anyway and couldn't care less about the bark.
Everything else is foreign language but I concur with this assessment, though I suspect ND move a different direction after that as I am known to live me some KC style BBQ for which I would like that pork marinade in and certain Texans here deny the what KC does is BBQ and is offensive to meat.

Generally speaking, Texas respects kc bbq. It's when you get that sweet Carolina stuff that it becomes unacceptable.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:52 pm

I just picked up The Pit Barrel Cooker and could not be happier with the results.
IT IS AS EASY as the videos say.

Light coals, hang meat, come back when time is up.
Saturday was my 1st cook - just like they said I let it do it's thing and came back 2.5hrs later to sauce and let hang for another 30mins. Results? Fantastic!!!

I have a charcoal weber platinum performer that is 2yrs old that can't even hope to do things this good - selling it this week.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:06 pm

5 or 6 years ago when I had some money I was all set to buy a grill but decided I didn't grill enough to spend the money on it. But I did research them pretty well and had decided on this type of grill. Brand did not matter to me.

Dont skimp on cost if you want a good grill. One of the most important things to remember is do not buy a grill with thin cheap racks on them. Make sure you get thick well made racks. Or replace them with better ones if you go cheap.

Z-Corn · Post by **Z-Corn** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:52 am

Roman wrote:I just picked up The Pit Barrel Cooker and could not be happier with the results.
IT IS AS EASY as the videos say.

Light coals, hang meat, come back when time is up.
Saturday was my 1st cook - just like they said I let it do it's thing and came back 2.5hrs later to sauce and let hang for another 30mins. Results? Fantastic!!!

I have a charcoal weber platinum performer that is 2yrs old that can't even hope to do things this good - selling it this week.

This is good to hear as I have had my eye on the Pit Barrel Cooker all summer. I may still pull the trigger and get one yet this year...

What did you cook in it?

http://www.pitbarrelcooker.com/

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:51 am

Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply buy a 50 gal barrel and drill it for cooking grates?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:05 am

Daehawk wrote:Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply buy a 50 gal barrel and drill it for cooking grates?

I don't know where my dad gets drums from but he did this for his Maple Syrup Rig, only vertically in instead of horizontally. Wood burns his boil down of sap and instead of using thermometer and (?)hyrometer(?) , he judges heat and boil by placing a grill on top of cinder blocks on top of his drum, a furnace door he welded on the bottom.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:14 am

We got a 50 gal drum around 1992 and used it for papers and trash. It last until around 2005 and it was outside all the time. had another out there since then and its unpainted and in great shape. I drilled holes in it for air to help it burn better.

Im not sure what we paid for it. bet i could make a nice grill pretty cheap. But still would rather have an electric.

Z-Corn · Post by **Z-Corn** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:34 pm

Daehawk wrote:Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply buy a 50 gal barrel and drill it for cooking grates?

For something like this I have more money than free time...

Cylus Maxii · Post by **Cylus Maxii** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:37 pm

I bought a Big Green Egg about 10 years ago and am still using it. Any sort of Kamado should work just as well. The nice thing about them is that they not only retain moisture better, they also have great heat retention which helps with temp stability. I use mine for smoking ribs, shoulder and brisket. I've even done turkeys. I also use it regularly for whole chickens and pork tenderloin. For those, it get plenty of smoke flavor just form using hardwood charcoal. My only caveat would be to not use a BGE/Kamado at high temp for searing steaks (at 700+) unless you enjoy the task of replacing the felt heat gasket every year.

As for heat control, when I'm cooking something for really long periods, I have a blower with temp probes that regulates the air flow for me and keeps it at perfect temp all night. I use hardwood charcoal and sometimes add hickory/oak or some sort of fruitwood. I don't rally like pecan because it is too bitter if you go heavy on it; it's really easy to over do. However, you can't beat pecan for the color it puts on a smoked turkey.

If I didn't want to fiddle with the smoking arcane, or just wanted to go cheaper, I would probably try one of the electric ones. They are about the size of a dorm refrigerator and I hear they produce great results at a decent price.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:39 pm

Cylus Maxii wrote:poke tenderloin.

When Pokemon Go gets serious.

Cylus Maxii · Post by **Cylus Maxii** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:42 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Cylus Maxii wrote:poke tenderloin.
When Pokemon Go gets serious.

Hey if it moves on its own, you can cook it. Its just a matter of seasoning, marinating and cook time.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:50 pm

My only caveat would be to not use a BGE/Kamado at high temp for searing steaks (at 700+) unless you enjoy the task of replacing the felt heat gasket every year.

What about the Nomex high heat gasket?

https://www.amazon.com/Nomex-High-Temp- ... B00GANTLV0

Cylus Maxii · Post by **Cylus Maxii** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:53 pm

Daehawk wrote:
My only caveat would be to not use a BGE/Kamado at high temp for searing steaks (at 700+) unless you enjoy the task of replacing the felt heat gasket every year.
What about the Nomex high heat gasket?

https://www.amazon.com/Nomex-High-Temp- ... B00GANTLV0

Sold! But I have no idea why they offer a 1-year extended warranty.

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:32 pm

Z-Corn I made 2 racks of pork back ribs.
Wish I could upload pics

I can't stop thinking/talking about the experience and look forward to this long weekend (Canada) to make even more.
You are bang on about having more money than time - I would never try and tackle something like this.
The creator talks about him using dozens of prototypes/sizes until he got it right (heat, convection, burn time etc etc)- trying to replicate that with 55 gallon (used) drum? I ain't interested. Nor would I know where to look for one that was virgin/clean and free of anything that was stored in it. But I digress....

I simply love the simplicity of it - light it and walk away until the prescribed time. It really was that simple for me. I was able to entertain friends and do other things than worry about the temp/air flow etc etc. I want to be able to cut the grass, shoot a quick 9 holes, nap or whatever and not stress.

This weekend will see more ribs and half chickens. You can also grill on it as it comes with a grill grate. Its a win win either way you look at it.

Madmarcus · Post by **Madmarcus** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:07 pm

Cylus Maxii wrote: If I didn't want to fiddle with the smoking arcane, or just wanted to go cheaper, I would probably try one of the electric ones. They are about the size of a dorm refrigerator and I hear they produce great results at a decent price.

I love my electric smoker. The best thing about it is that all I need to worry about is the smoking chips and the meat temp; since I don't have to fiddle with keeping the heat constant I can smoke meat no matter what its like outside. If its nice I'll sit outside but if it's freezing cold, boiling hot, or storming I just pop out for a sec and then head back inside.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:25 pm

Redfive wrote:Interesting about the chips. Will have to go without soaking next time and see if I can tell a difference.

I completely disagree, at least for grilling over charcoal. If I don't soak my chips (30 minutes), given how hot charcoal gets (especially in a big ass Weber dome), the chips burn up immediately.

Soaking them (again, for at least 20 min, but I usually try to hit 30):
1. prevents fire, which you don't generally want IMO
2. allows them to last for more than 8 seconds

I tried not soaking them the last time I grilled, and it was pretty much pointless, and very fiery. If I do soak for the full time, I can usually get through grilling a couple of thick steaks having only replenished the chips once or twice. Plenty of smoke, and more importantly, smoky flavor.

As far as smoking meat, it's always something I have wanted to try, but I never wanted to buy a separate ...thingy to do so. If there is a way to get similar results using a Weber, I will probably try that first. I have several friends that have dedicated smokers and they talk about them as if they were beloved, generous uncles.