Super Bowl LII

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:02 pm

Jeff V wrote:
msteelers wrote:The end of the half in Chicago is bonkers.

How is it not a safety?
A bigger question is why is that Bears player still in uniform? Stopping 5 yards short of the goal line should be a career-ending ploy.

This

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:36 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:Also, the 15yd unsportsmanlike conduct on Von Miller. That’s the most embarrassing penalty I’ve ever seen, and it cost them the game.

Was it unsportsmanlike conduct or taunting? Or are they technically the same thing? I could somewhat understand the refs calling taunting on the play, although it seemed clearly just joke by Miller.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Taunting. Which it might technically be, but come on. Tyrod was laughing about it, he thought it was funny too.

Looked at the Tate play again and realized the DB had his hand on Tate the whole time. So while it all sucks, rules are rules.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:19 pm

I can't believe the Pats won. I had to leave with 7:12 left in the third to pick up my daughter from girl scouts and had to watch the rest on tape delay on the dvr. So incredibly stressful! The Texans may finally have found their QB. Watson is still raw, but if he can progress in passing to match his running threat, they will be tough to beat.

Eightball · Post by **Eightball** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:12 pm

So many interesting games today. We mostly watched the Eagles second kicker boot a 61 yarder to win the game against the Giants. Crazy ass game.

And that's even without talking about OBJs weird celebration where he pretended to be a dog peeing on the field.

RunningMn9 wrote:Seriously. There is a 100% chance the Broncos will beat this dog shit team.

Hi!

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:12 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:Taunting. Which it might technically be, but come on. Tyrod was laughing about it, he thought it was funny too.

Looked at the Tate play again and realized the DB had his hand on Tate the whole time. So while it all sucks, rules are rules.

Hopefully the NFL will make it clear that a player doesn't have to help up a player from the opposing team. Geezus.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:20 pm

A player doesn’t have to help up a player from the opposing team. But if you do what Miller did, you are going to get a taunting flag 100% of the time.

I was wrong about the DEN/BUF game. However, there is a 100% chance the Falcons will beat this team.

Trent Steel · Post by **Trent Steel** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:30 pm

In other news, Sammy Watkins rises from the grave.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:59 pm

Only to be concussed.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:02 pm

Most bullshit penalty EVAR!. No wonder nobody watches this crap anymore.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:27 am

Rip wrote:Most bullshit penalty EVAR!. No wonder nobody watches this crap anymore.

Can you give another clue?

And the Redskins are good? WTF?

Eightball · Post by **Eightball** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:41 am

Jaymann wrote:
And the Redskins are good? WTF?

Just hold your horses on that one lol. Let's see...

But that was a serious butt kicking for sure.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:57 am

RunningMn9 wrote:Taunting. Which it might technically be, but come on. Tyrod was laughing about it, he thought it was funny too.

Looked at the Tate play again and realized the DB had his hand on Tate the whole time. So while it all sucks, rules are rules.

Maybe. Either way the Lions again got fucked by the officiating (and themselves). If you believe the on field officials got it right (I do, having watched the replay about 100 times now I feel confident that the defender's hand came off Tate before he finished the catch AND his knee did not touch before the ball broke the plane) then they got screwed because the replay official over ruled them improperly (also, given the amount of controversy can you actually try and claim that the video shows beyond doubt that he was down?). If you agree that the play was reviewed properly and the correct call made in the end then the Lions got screwed because the on field officials blew the call and due to that they lost the final seconds of the game. If the on filed officials rule him down they have a shot at lining up and trying to push it in on 4th down. Long shot to even get the play off with only 8 seconds but still a shot. A shot which was denied them because the officials blew the original call according to the replay.

Fucked by themselves because if you're going to run a play with that little time on the clock and no time outs then you better be IN the endzone not next to it and reaching for it. Also, from the 2 with 1st and goal how do you not run one roll out giving Stafford the option of a run or throw? Yes, he needs to get in if he runs but from 2 yards away you can be pretty sure you can read if you have it or not.

Just like the Calvin Johnson rule. Like the replay rule that used to call an unsportsmanlike AND make a play unreviewable for challenging a play that would automatically be reviewed (also from a Detroit/Atlanta game). Like the batted ball rule from the game in Seattle. Just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:40 am

I think you are being completely unreasonable. I agree that it sucks for the Lions. I don’t agree that they got screwed by the system in any way. Knee down with a hand on the shoulder - I didn’t see anything that suggested Tate didn’t have possession yet at that moment. The rule governing that he has to maintain possession going to the ground doesn’t impact whether you are down by contact or not. It determined whether you are downed with a completed pass or if it was an incomplete pass. You don’t get to roll on the ground and gain yards (or points) after contact due to this rule.

The officials didn’t “blow” the call. That’s a near impossible call to make in real-time, and the safe call there is TD, because it will get reviewed. If it gets ruled down by contact and he wasn’t - that won’t get reviewed because the Lions will have to rush the snap before booth can challenge.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:03 am

Eightball wrote:
Jaymann wrote:
And the Redskins are good? WTF?
Just hold your horses on that one lol. Let's see...

But that was a serious butt kicking for sure.

That was the best I've seen a Redskins defense play in many years. The final should have easily been 27-0 if not for the two Redskins fumbles.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:18 am

RunningMn9 wrote:Knee down with a hand on the shoulder - I didn’t see anything that suggested Tate didn’t have possession yet at that moment.

I've seen the replay five or six times and while I do think Tate was touched while going to the ground, I'm still not convinced that his knee was down before the ball crossed the line. And, since it was called a TD on the field, the refs supposedly had to have incontrovertible evidence to overturn the call. I just don't see it.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:34 am

RunningMn9 wrote:I think you are being completely unreasonable. I agree that it sucks for the Lions. I don’t agree that they got screwed by the system in any way. Knee down with a hand on the shoulder - I didn’t see anything that suggested Tate didn’t have possession yet at that moment. The rule governing that he has to maintain possession going to the ground doesn’t impact whether you are down by contact or not. It determined whether you are downed with a completed pass or if it was an incomplete pass. You don’t get to roll on the ground and gain yards (or points) after contact due to this rule.

The officials didn’t “blow” the call. That’s a near impossible call to make in real-time, and the safe call there is TD, because it will get reviewed. If it gets ruled down by contact and he wasn’t - that won’t get reviewed because the Lions will have to rush the snap before booth can challenge.

The mention of the Calvin Johnson rule was simply that it cost the Lions a game too. Not comparing the two catches.

Also, the fact that people are discussing it proves that the video is not "incontrovertible" so, as R-W said, the on field call should have stood.

Beyond that, you just said it was the "safe" call. Not the correct call. Thus the Lions are denied an opportunity due to the officials not making the correct call.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:39 am

I mainly don't like the rule of the 10 second runoff. I get the concept, but I have a hard time assuming that the Lions wouldn't have been able to rush up to the line and snap the ball with 8 seconds remaining. Maybe they don't, but maybe they do. Having the 10-second runoff end the game when the only "mistake" was on the refs just doesn't seem right. I think a simple fix would be to keep the runoff, but don't let the game end because of it. Let the Lions have one more untimed play from there.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:36 am

How about a 5 second run off rule instead of 10? If Tate's knee was down with 4 seconds to go, then there's probably not enough time for another play anyway. 8 seconds, though, and it's conceivable, maybe even likely, that they get off another play. With a 5 second run off, the review wouldn't have ended the game.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:28 pm

On a more positive note regarding the Lions, we would like to extend our thanks once again to Denver for their release of Matt Prater. Yesterday he became the first kicker in NFL history to kick four 55+ yard field goals in the same season and he did it by game 3.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:How about a 5 second run off rule instead of 10? If Tate's knee was down with 4 seconds to go, then there's probably not enough time for another play anyway. 8 seconds, though, and it's conceivable, maybe even likely, that they get off another play. With a 5 second run off, the review wouldn't have ended the game.

When the competition committee added the rule, it was determined that from the moment you are down by contact, that was the minimum length of time it would take to get the players off the ground, for the refs to spot the ball and get into position, and for a team to *legally* line up and get a play snapped.

In listening to some analysis from former QBs, their experience was that in all of the analysis that teams did, if you do not have any timeouts, the cutoff was 15 seconds. If there is less than 15 seconds on the clock, you cannot run the ball or throw the ball in the field of play, as you will almost certainly not get a second playoff. The Lions snapped the ball with 12 seconds on the clock.

Is it *possible*? Maybe. But under the circumstances, it seems far more likely that you will get a false start or offensive procedure penalty (which also carries a 10-second runoff).

The problem with the entire play is that Stafford threw it to Tate in the field of play. You just cannot do that under those circumstances.

Also, RW, I've seen the replay dozens of times now - I don't think there is any question at all that his knee is down before the ball breaks the plane. I don't know how we are seeing that differently.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:09 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:The problem with the entire play is that Stafford threw it to Tate in the field of play. You just cannot do that under those circumstances.

You can - you just have to be sure he's going to get in.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:18 pm

I'm just happy the Leos showed up. I want entertainment for commercial watching dollars. I figured the defense was going to hurt, missing Davis but we played well enough to lose on an instant replay on the last play.

The radio buzz here is that to scrutinize the replay as incontrovertible is to honor the fact that that were incontrovertibly 11 seconds on the clock when ball would have been dead. I haven't watched the replay gazillion times.

Not sure I know enough to care. There are lots of rules I don't like and they all seem to come against my team. Maybe my team needs reading lessons. Shit happens. It was a good game. I was very close to having me drinking that Honolulu blue kool aid for the first time ever but even with the loss, I'll watch my team with more enthusiasm than The Orville.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:18 pm

stessier wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote:The problem with the entire play is that Stafford threw it to Tate in the field of play. You just cannot do that under those circumstances.
You can - you just have to be sure he's going to get in.

Well, now at least the Lions have a teaching point for the risks of throwing that ball into the field of play rather than the end zone.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:27 pm

I need Isgrimnur type research help.

There are a bunch of graphics going around saying Gronk was the fastest TE to 70 TDs after this weekend. He caught 1 TD against Houston and 1 TD against New Orleans. And they say he only has 70 as of today. The things is, he got 69 last year - so he has 71. Even ESPN has his career total at 70 today.

Here is a story of him celebrating 69 against Buffalo in Oct, 2016.
Here is a story of him getting 69 against New Orleans in Sept, 2017.

WTF?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:31 pm

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, Gronk ran one in - he got his 69th total TD last year. He got his 69th receiving this year. Got it.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:35 pm

Glad to help.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:48 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: Also, RW, I've seen the replay dozens of times now - I don't think there is any question at all that his knee is down before the ball breaks the plane. I don't know how we are seeing that differently.

Here's the picture I've seen:

The ball is right about to break the plane and it looks to me like both his knees and his elbow are slightly above the turf. How that could be ruled conclusive one way or the other is beyond me.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:51 pm

Maybe the next frame shows his knee and elbow touching the ground and the ball no further advanced toward the goal line?

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:04 pm

Possibly, but I haven't been able to find a still of the next frame.

DOS=HIGH · Post by **DOS=HIGH** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:17 pm

That frame shows just after his leg came off the ground. Go to the 32 second mark and play with the time slide thing, you can see his shin & knee hit the ground short of the goal line.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:51 pm

Man - that is so close. I can see there what could be knee/shin down, but only for millisecond or two. I'm still not sure it's enough to overturn the call on the field, but I can't say that the refs got it wrong. I still think the 10 second run off was pretty shitty, though (and yes, I understand it's the correct ruling, etc).

DOS=HIGH · Post by **DOS=HIGH** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:52 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Man - that is so close. I can see there what could be knee/shin down, but only for millisecond or two. I'm still not sure it's enough to overturn the call on the field, but I can't say that the refs got it wrong. I still think the 10 second run off was pretty shitty, though (and yes, I understand it's the correct ruling, etc).

I was watching it live and the immediate replays, I thought there was no way they were going to reverse it. Looking at the frame by frame made me realize it was technically the right decision. A more painful result for Detroit would have been if the refs marked him short but they were able to line up in time for another play, and then they blow the whistle for a review just prior to the snap.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:45 pm

DOS=HIGH wrote:That frame shows just after his leg came off the ground. Go to the 32 second mark and play with the time slide thing, you can see his shin & knee hit the ground short of the goal line.

Yeah, I was going to say, that pic looked like it was after he was down (since the hand is no longer on his shoulder, touching him down).

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:04 am

I eventually saw a replay that convinced me his knee was down with the ball short of the goal line. As RM9 points out, he was contacted by the defender. Caldwell said the play was correctly ruled via replay and he had no issues with how things were handled. He was the first (that I had heard) who also mentioned that the run-off only happened because the team did not have any time outs at their disposal.

However. Tate gets mauled on his off arm as the defender makes a play for the ball. This is a judgment call which has to be decided on at the time of the play. Officials decided it wasn't penalty worthy and that's that. I'm not thrilled, but that's how the game works.

I'd also be happy if they changed the run-off rule. I'm fine with a 10 second run off in the case of an offensive penalty. But it was an extremely unsatisfying entertainment decision to end the game on an overturned call via the clock runoff. I would not be surprised if the rule is revisited such that penalties get the runoff and reviews do not. This is an arbitrary distinction, but one which favors the more entertaining finish for the fans. In this case the Lions were put at a disadvantage because of the improper ruling on the live play. With the game state reset to new conditions, I'm fine with (actually I prefer) giving a team one more untimed down.

But that's now how things are currently done. Caldwell's presser (available on youtube) makes me really respect the coach that much more.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:00 pm

Go Bears.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:02 am

Wow - that Bears hit on Adams was horrible. I'm thinking a suspension might be in order.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:23 am

I haven't checked but multiple people here have been saying that if they checked the clock at the time they rule Tate down there would have been 11 seconds left. The 8 seconds were after the play finished entirely. So now people are wondering that if he was down why did you not roll the clock back to that time and allow the Lions 1 second to get a play off. I refuse to check into that.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:45 am

Lions fans are so close to getting the game outcome reversed.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:11 am

What happened in the Packers game to cause a player to be taken to the hospital? I missed the game.