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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Read the whole article on the very last minute Kelvin Benjamin trade. I am pretty ignorant about such things, so maybe this is normal, but I found it interesting that there was not one mention or quote from Benjamin himself. Are his thoughts/wants irrelevant in all this?

It really reads like they (owners/managers/coaches) are discussing cattle from an outside perspective.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2124 ... falo-bills
http://es.pn/2lAg1knhttp://www.espn.com ... pn/2lAg1kn
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Kelric »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 pm Probably best for the Browns; I highly doubt McCarron would be their answer at QB. Of course, being Cleveland, anyone they get is doomed to fail.
Their best chance would have been Jimmy G or McCarron during the offseason before the draft. Trading value for them mid-season right after drafting a QB in the 2nd round doesn't make too much sense. Of course, it is the Browns.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by rshetts2 »

It really reads like they (owners/managers/coaches) are discussing cattle from an outside perspective.
When looking at it strictly from a business standpoint, that is exactly what it is. The players are a commodity and they can be traded or sold much like cattle in the market. Also, unless the player has some kind of trade restriction built into his contract, they basically have no real say in those dealings. Its a business after all and sometime fans tend to forget that aspect of professional sports.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Kelric »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:04 am Read the whole article on the very last minute Kelvin Benjamin trade. I am pretty ignorant about such things, so maybe this is normal, but I found it interesting that there was not one mention or quote from Benjamin himself. Are his thoughts/wants irrelevant in all this?

It really reads like they (owners/managers/coaches) are discussing cattle from an outside perspective.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2124 ... falo-bills
http://es.pn/2lAg1knhttp://www.espn.com ... pn/2lAg1kn

In a business sense, his thoughts/wants are irrelevant otherwise he'd have some sort of no trade clause. He signed a contract to play football for the Panthers and, per the collective bargaining agreement, they have the right to trade that contract. <shrug> That's sports.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Kelric »

rshetts2 wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:58 am
It really reads like they (owners/managers/coaches) are discussing cattle from an outside perspective.
When looking at it strictly from a business standpoint, that is exactly what it is. The players are a commodity and they can be traded or sold much like cattle in the market. Also, unless the player has some kind of trade restriction built into his contract, they basically have no real say in those dealings. Its a business after all and sometime fans tend to forget that aspect of professional sports.
Yeah, what he said.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by stessier »

It's really unfair Buffalo got Benjamin. The Patriots have already played him once - I thought they were done with him. Now they have to play him two more times. Unfair, I say! UNFAIR!
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Lassr »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 pm Probably best for the Browns; I highly doubt McCarron would be their answer at QB. Of course, being Cleveland, anyone they get is doomed to fail.
probably best for McCarron also. Let him pick a better place in free agency.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Carpet_pissr »

To clarify, I am not surprised at the "sports IS business" aspect of the trade, more curious if at any point before it happens, they check with the player to be traded to get his feedback.

"Hey man, thought we'd bounce this idea off of you - we are considering uprooting your entire family, and moving them from the sunny, warm LA to Minnesota, just in time for winter. Cool with that? "
vs
"Hey, just thought we'd let you know we just traded you away to Minnesota, effective immediately. Bon voyage, hope you like the cold, MF'er!" :P
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by stessier »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:57 am To clarify, I am not surprised at the "sports IS business" aspect of the trade, more curious if at any point before it happens, they check with the player to be traded to get his feedback.

"Hey man, thought we'd bounce this idea off of you - we are considering uprooting your entire family, and moving them from the sunny, warm LA to Minnesota, just in time for winter. Cool with that? "
vs
"Hey, just thought we'd let you know we just traded you away to Minnesota, effective immediately. Bon voyage, hope you like the cold, MF'er!" :P
Maybe a Brady or a Manning would get that call. Maybe. No one else though. It's not uncommon for players to learn through the media that they were traded (rather than a call from a coach/GM).

And why would the team even care? They are getting rid of the player - whether he likes it or not, it's no longer their problem.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Wow.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Kelric »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:21 amWow.
<shrug> I got laid off two months before my daughter was due to be born and with three months of paternity leave lined up. They didn't check with me if it was ok. Why would professional sports be any different? Some guys get the courtesy ask, but maybe that's 1%.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by LawBeefaroni »

stessier wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:02 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:57 am To clarify, I am not surprised at the "sports IS business" aspect of the trade, more curious if at any point before it happens, they check with the player to be traded to get his feedback.

"Hey man, thought we'd bounce this idea off of you - we are considering uprooting your entire family, and moving them from the sunny, warm LA to Minnesota, just in time for winter. Cool with that? "
vs
"Hey, just thought we'd let you know we just traded you away to Minnesota, effective immediately. Bon voyage, hope you like the cold, MF'er!" :P
Maybe a Brady or a Manning would get that call. Maybe. No one else though. It's not uncommon for players to learn through the media that they were traded (rather than a call from a coach/GM).

And why would the team even care? They are getting rid of the player - whether he likes it or not, it's no longer their problem.
More importantly, what would they do if the player said he wasn't cool with the trade? Call the trade off? Heck no. So why ask for player weigh-in and potentially put everyone in that position?
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Isgrimnur »

There's a reason that no-trade clauses have become a thing, and, of course, only players of a certain value are able to get them added to a contract. And I have no doubt that the teams make sure that's made up for in other concessions.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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MLB
Ron Santo started all of this. After the 1973 season, the Cubs tried to trade the eventual Hall of Famer to the California Angels. But a then-new and now-standard clause in the collective bargaining agreement afforded players with 10 years of service time, and the last five with the same team, the right to veto any trade.
...
Over time, it wasn't just 10-and-5 players with veto power. Players began requesting that no-trade power be baked into their free-agent contracts and extensions, and now such clauses are the land mines scattered throughout the field of trade dialogue.
NBA
The NBA doesn't make it easy for players to have a no-trade clause included in their contracts. In order to get one, a player must have eight NBA seasons of experience and played for the team with which he is signing for at least four of them. If those conditions have been met, a no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract but not a contract extension. Because the circumstances required to get a no-trade clause are so specific, very few players meet the criteria. And now that Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant have retired and Dwyane Wade chose to leave Miami to sign with the Bulls as a free agent, there are only three players left in the entire league who have a no-trade clause firmly in place.
NFL
Any NFL player, regardless of experience, may have his contract assigned to another club via trade at any point, unless he or his agent has negotiated a no-trade clause into the special provision portion of a standard player contract.
...
A team cannot trade a player, with or without a no-trade provision, to any of the eight teams from the divisional playoffs in the preceding year, unless that team lost another player to unrestricted free agency--the process for players with at least four years experience to negotiate a new contract with any team. This rule, which is part of what is known in the CBA as the "Final Eight Plan," is designed to encourage competitive balance and limit the best teams from getting significantly better.
NHL
The Red Wings have 10 players with no-trade clauses, tied for most in the NHL. Seven of them are attached to players over 30. All of them were handed out by GM Ken Holland, either to bait the hook for free agents or to help bring down the price for the players the Red Wings re-signed.

Colin Cudmore recently published a handy chart of all the no-trade clauses on all the teams in the NHL:

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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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Is there anyone in the NFL with a no-trade clause? I didn't think they were a thing in this league.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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Which is why Ken Holland is a GM without a contract for next season.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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Google suggests Philip Rivers is the only NFL player with a no trade clause.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Isgrimnur »

Eli
Eli Manning is not going to lead the Giants anywhere, but he certainly would be an attractive addition to a contending team — although the no-trade clause in his contract means he’s staying put.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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Brees
Brees ultimately signed a one-year extension with the Saints through 2017 that was worth $24.25 million in new money and included a no-trade clause and a guarantee that the team won’t use the franchise tag on him in 2018.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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Mack, 2015.
Alex Mack says he's staying with the Cleveland Browns.

In a statement released Monday night hours before Tuesday's trade deadline, Mack said he would not waive his no-trade clause.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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Fitzgerald
The Cardinals are reportedly high on Peterson’s list of potential destinations but his existing contract is a major problem. The team recently renegotiated a pay cut with Larry Fitzgerald. He was scheduled to make $16.25 million in 2015 with $61.5 million over the final four years of his deal (through 2018). His renegotiated contract is a fully guaranteed $22 million for two years and contains a no-trade clause.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Isgrimnur »

The Meal wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:46 pm Which is why Ken Holland is a GM without a contract for next season.
I didn't quote this originally for a reason:
The Detroit Red Wings have been mismanaged into oblivion, but you knew that.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by gilraen »

About time: Broncos promote Osweiler to starting QB.

A couple of weeks too late but they might still make the playoffs.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

gilraen wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:13 pm About time: Broncos promote Osweiler to starting QB.

A couple of weeks too late but they might still make the playoffs.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Kelric »

I completely forgot that the NFL did have no trade clauses - they're so rare (and generally attached to QBs who wouldn't get traded anyway) that I missed the mark there.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by RunningMn9 »

Carpet_pissr wrote:Read the whole article on the very last minute Kelvin Benjamin trade. I am pretty ignorant about such things, so maybe this is normal, but I found it interesting that there was not one mention or quote from Benjamin himself. Are his thoughts/wants irrelevant in all this?
In most cases that player has no idea until their told where they have to move. His thoughts aren’t relevant at all. Sometimes a player requests a trade and its granted, and their agent is even the entity that seeks a trade partner that’s amenable with the player, but that wasn’t the case here.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Moliere »

Sometimes you're John Elway, who can get drafted by a team and announce he would rather play baseball unless he gets traded.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 pm Probably best for the Browns; I highly doubt McCarron would be their answer at QB. Of course, being Cleveland, anyone they get is doomed to fail.
Definitely best for the Browns. You don't let Hue Jackson trade the farm for a QB:

That is until the Raiders came calling with an offer too good to pass up. Raiders quarterback Jason Campbell had just broken his collarbone and then-head coach Hue Jackson was determined to keep their own strong 4-2 start going by any means necessary, so he set the ball rolling on a trade that eventually netted the Bengals a first- and second-round pick in return for Palmer.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Rip »

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2126 ... y-practice
Houston Texans rookie quarterback Deshaun Watson will have season-ending surgery after tearing his ACL during Thursday's practice, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

The injury occurred about halfway through practice on a grass field; Watson appeared to trip or fall but did not yell, someone present at practice told Schefter.

Watson got up and felt his knee before it was looked at, but the person said no one believed the injury was season-ending. It is not yet known which knee Watson injured.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by gameoverman »

That's a heartbreaker about Watson, he looked to be one of the bright spots in the league this year.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by stessier »

Just saw this on ESPN - so sad for Houston. Hopefully he won't lose much of his athleticism.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by pr0ner »

Well, that means Watson has torn both his ACLs now.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Isgrimnur »

Bengals-Jags got a little wild.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by stessier »

Can't find a vid yet, but the KC play right before halftime was insane. I've never seen that work before.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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stessier wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:00 pm Can't find a vid yet, but the KC play right before halftime was insane. I've never seen that work before.
NFL.com has it. Whomever is #19 on the Chiefs got two big blocks to give him a window.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Isgrimnur »

Kelric wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:07 pm
stessier wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:00 pm Can't find a vid yet, but the KC play right before halftime was insane. I've never seen that work before.
NFL.com has it. Whomever is #19 on the Chiefs got two big blocks to give him a window.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

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stessier wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:00 pm Can't find a vid yet, but the KC play right before halftime was insane. I've never seen that work before.
Agreed. I've never seen that work. That was awesome.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by gameoverman »

That KC guy is lightning fast. I think unless a team has a guy like that, this kind of play won't work. I think most teams have a better shot with the hail mary play, since just about any receiver can jump for the ball.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by pr0ner »

Holy shit the Redskins won.
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Re: 2017 NFL Week 9

Post by Isgrimnur »

Part of me wants to watch the 49s play the Giants next week. Then again, part of me would rather watch paint dry.
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