Super Bowl LII

mori · Post by **mori** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:16 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:24 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:43 pm
But the odds that Brady ends his career with the Patriots seem small - by all accounts football is Brady's whole life, so the chances that his desire to keep playing outlasts his ability to do so at a high level are very high.
Because that sort of behavior did wonders for Brett Favre's legacy.

Favre is still revered in cheeseheadland and he had one great year at MN. Only the cheating NFL robbed him of another Super Bowl appearance and a real shot of winning the title with a second team.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:30 pm

Bill O'Brien's conservative play calling may have just costs the Texans a second game this season. They should've gone for it in New England and at the very least they should've done something more creative than a run up the middle on 3rd down at the end (a rollout, perhaps?). In either game, a first down wins it. When you're playing on the toad and your defense is getting shredded, why think they'll be able to hold the other team from scoring at the end?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:35 pm

Playing on the toad is difficult...

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:47 pm

mori wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:16 pm
Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:24 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:43 pm
But the odds that Brady ends his career with the Patriots seem small - by all accounts football is Brady's whole life, so the chances that his desire to keep playing outlasts his ability to do so at a high level are very high.
Because that sort of behavior did wonders for Brett Favre's legacy.
Favre is still revered in cheeseheadland and he had one great year at MN. Only the cheating NFL robbed him of another Super Bowl appearance and a real shot of winning the title with a second team.

That, and the contract the Saints put on his head. He had a great year for the Vikings. The Jets, no so much. I don't think either pushed his legacy one way or another.

No matter what happens with Brady and the Patriots, I don't think he goes elsewhere and does poorly. If he goes somewhere else, he will have a great year. The next year maybe not but the first year, he's going to do absolutely everything he can to show everyone he's not done and he'll be right.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:44 pm

Lorini wrote:As sources are saying, Goodell doesn't solve problems, in fact he creates them. Why anyone would want him to head their company I have no clue. I'm fairly sure they can do better than him.

How much were NFL franchises worth before Goodell became Commissioner? How much are the worth now?

His job is to increase the value of the brand. It would be hard to argue that he’s not the most successful Commissioner in league history using the only metric that matters.

The owners might be getting emotional, it happens. But never lose sight of the only real job that the Commish has. That and he serves as the league whipping boy so the owners don’t have to.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:33 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:44 pm
Lorini wrote:As sources are saying, Goodell doesn't solve problems, in fact he creates them. Why anyone would want him to head their company I have no clue. I'm fairly sure they can do better than him.
How much were NFL franchises worth before Goodell became Commissioner? How much are the worth now?

His job is to increase the value of the brand. It would be hard to argue that he’s not the most successful Commissioner in league history using the only metric that matters.

The owners might be getting emotional, it happens. But never lose sight of the only real job that the Commish has. That and he serves as the league whipping boy so the owners don’t have to.

The important question is what will they be worth next year, or the year after. It doesn't take many years of losing value to put a big hit in all those years of modest increases.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:48 am

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:33 pm
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:44 pm
Lorini wrote:As sources are saying, Goodell doesn't solve problems, in fact he creates them. Why anyone would want him to head their company I have no clue. I'm fairly sure they can do better than him.
How much were NFL franchises worth before Goodell became Commissioner? How much are the worth now?

His job is to increase the value of the brand. It would be hard to argue that he’s not the most successful Commissioner in league history using the only metric that matters.

The owners might be getting emotional, it happens. But never lose sight of the only real job that the Commish has. That and he serves as the league whipping boy so the owners don’t have to.
The important question is what will they be worth next year, or the year after. It doesn't take many years of losing value to put a big hit in all those years of modest increases.

And also was that worth because of him or in spite of him?? He can't lay claim to all the revenue, the teams have a lot to say about that. In fact name one thing that he did that increased revenue??? I can't think of any.

Nearly every sticky issue he's been presented with he's blown. The Saints, Ray Brown, the anthem, the list goes on and on. The league got better in spite of that but with TV revenues down everywhere they need someone in there who can think and problem solve, not just lay back and collect a paycheck.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:15 am

I'm a Saints fan, but Zach Miller got screwed when he caught that TD pass. He dislocated his knee in the process and Fox kept replaying the play (and injury) just to see why it was overturned. Ugh. I guess the refs reversed it because he put the ball on the ground after he caught it, but it sure as hell looked like he had possession all the way through the catch.

I still can't believe the Saints are on a five-game winning streak.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:19 am

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:32 am

NFL franchises are worth what they’re worth because of the value of the NFL brand. Internationalizing the game, Thursday Night football (bitch all you want, it’s a big money-maker), the insanity that are the current TV contracts.

You can point to stuff like the Brady situation, but the reality is that as much as Kraft was upset, 31 other owners were giving Goodell an attaboy. If you want a solid explanation for why the owners were even entertaining extending him, follow Andrew Brandt.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:12 pm

New reports are that Zach Miller tore an artery in his leg and had to undergo surgery to save the leg. Damn. Good luck, Zach.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:29 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:32 am NFL franchises are worth what they’re worth because of the value of the NFL brand. Internationalizing the game, Thursday Night football (bitch all you want, it’s a big money-maker), the insanity that are the current TV contracts.

You can point to stuff like the Brady situation, but the reality is that as much as Kraft was upset, 31 other owners were giving Goodell an attaboy. If you want a solid explanation for why the owners were even entertaining extending him, follow Andrew Brandt.

The teams make the brand. What would the NFL be in his tenure there without Brady/Manning/Rodgers? Not nearly as valuable. What would the NFL be like without Goodell? Probably better.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:21 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:29 pm
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:32 am NFL franchises are worth what they’re worth because of the value of the NFL brand. Internationalizing the game, Thursday Night football (bitch all you want, it’s a big money-maker), the insanity that are the current TV contracts.

You can point to stuff like the Brady situation, but the reality is that as much as Kraft was upset, 31 other owners were giving Goodell an attaboy. If you want a solid explanation for why the owners were even entertaining extending him, follow Andrew Brandt.
The teams make the brand. What would the NFL be in his tenure there without Brady/Manning/Rodgers? Not nearly as valuable. What would the NFL be like without Goodell? Probably better.

You under estimate the value of the machine. The NFL created Brady/Manning/Rodgers as much as they created it. Had they not been there Brees would be bigger as would Rivers....etc.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:22 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:29 pmThe teams make the brand.

NFL franchises aren't worth what they're worth because of Brady or Aaron Rodgers. The NFL as an entity makes the brand. The Cowboys would be worth almost nothing without the NFL. If you don't believe me, have them join the CFL and watch what happens.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:14 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:22 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:29 pmThe teams make the brand.
NFL franchises aren't worth what they're worth because of Brady or Aaron Rodgers. The NFL as an entity makes the brand. The Cowboys would be worth almost nothing without the NFL. If you don't believe me, have them join the CFL and watch what happens.

I thought we were talking about Goodell? Who has very little to do with the brand except not screwing it up as he keeps trying to do? Somebody has to sign the paperwork/licensing et al, I get that but I've seen nothing any other CEO/leader couldn't do at least as well if not better. Goodell is not the NFL. If he is not retained, then someone else will get the job, but that doesn't make the them the NFL.

If you're saying he negotiated the TV deals and that took extra special worth $24M salary skill then we'll have to disagree.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:41 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:21 pm
Kelric wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:17 pm I meant after this season. If they bring Brady back I just can't see GM Belichick putting a $20M+ franchise tag on a backup quarterback.
I kind of feel like regardless of how Brady does this season Belichick is likely to shank him and extend Garappalo.

Garoppolo traded to the 49ers

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:34 pm

We were talking about the NFL brand. Goodell’s primary job is to enhance the value of the brand. By any imaginable measure he has been wildly successful in that role. His secondary role is to be the public face of the owners and to take the hits that they don’t want to take themselves. He’s probably even more successful in that role (as evidenced by this thread).

Sure, individual owners might get upset with the league office when their franchise is impacted. But there is only one owner that is upset with Goodell over the Elliot case. There was only one owner upset with Goodell over the Brady case (Hint: in that case it sure as shit wasnt Jerry Jones).

IMO, the way that the NFL has handled this Elliot case is ludicrous. But I have to ask myself - what on earth does the NFL gain by suspending Elliot for six games and upholding the suspension? Absolutely nothing as far as I can tell.

So why do it? The move to hold up Goodell’s extension is theater (in my opinion, led by an owner that is being emotional in the moment to prove a point). That an extension was even in the works is a strong indication of what? If he is the worst at his job, how did they get this close to such a lucrative extension?

My guess is that the answer is that his employers understand his job performance better than we do. What’s your guess?

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:43 pm

gilraen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:41 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:21 pm
Kelric wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:17 pm I meant after this season. If they bring Brady back I just can't see GM Belichick putting a $20M+ franchise tag on a backup quarterback.
I kind of feel like regardless of how Brady does this season Belichick is likely to shank him and extend Garappalo.
Garoppolo traded to the 49ers

It makes perfect sense to trade the backup QB after trading the backup QB to the backup QB, right? So now we'll pick Brian Hoyer up in FA and hope nothing happens to Tom.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:46 am

Well that's a shock to wake up to. I feel like I've lost a member of the family or broken up with a girlfriend. Wow.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:49 am

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:46 am Well that's a shock to wake up to. I feel like I've lost a member of the family or broken up with a girlfriend. Wow.

Well, to be fair, its just your back up girlfriend and she was going to demand a lot more out of you down the road. Best to dump her now!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:00 am

I was just thinking - as of this morning, teams with a QB with at least 2 SB rings - Pats, Giants, Steelers and 49ers.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:07 am

So with all the crap being given other teams for not signing SFs QB reject are they going to get any grief for not signing him instead?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 am

Dolphins just traded Jay Ajayi to the Eagles for a fourth rounder. Wow - active trade deadline!

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:39 am

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 am Dolphins just traded Jay Ajayi to the Eagles for a fourth rounder. Wow - active trade deadline!

Seahawks traded CB Jeremy Lane and a couple draft picks for LT Duane Brown of the Texans, too.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:42 am

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 am Dolphins just traded Jay Ajayi to the Eagles for a fourth rounder. Wow - active trade deadline!

Didn't see that coming. It is either Gase / management trying to send a signal to the rest of the team, or they've decided to retool for next year when Tannehill is back. Perhaps a Jarvis Landry trade is next? Ajayi is a free agent after next season and Landry is one after this year.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:32 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:34 pm

My guess is that the answer is that his employers understand his job performance better than we do. What’s your guess?

He took a pay cut but he's still making like $36M right? He must have some of their confidence.

IMO, one reason viewership is down is because of the CTE issues. Some aren't watching because they don't like to see people getting brain damage. Others aren't watching because they thing the protective rules make the game less exciting.

Well, that and the fact that one if the biggest draws, gambling/fantasy, doesn't require you to watch anymore. Just fire up Red Zone or gametracker. Which you have to do anyway since the games are on like 5 days a week and on all kinds of networks that many people (aka cord cutters) don't watch..

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:40 pm

the games are on like 5 days a week and on all kinds of networks

I think this has had a major impact on viewership. It used to be that you could rely on when and where your favorite team was on TV each and every week. Now the games are all over the place. Its become easier to simply catch the highlights than it is to watch the game.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:08 pm

rshetts2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:40 pm
the games are on like 5 days a week and on all kinds of networks
I think this has had a major impact on viewership. It used to be that you could rely on when and where your favorite team was on TV each and every week. Now the games are all over the place. Its become easier to simply catch the highlights than it is to watch the game.

There's a lot of burnout too. I don't think the average fan is watching 15+ hours of football. I'd be curious how much the numbers have changed for "I watch at least 3 hours of a football per week" viewer.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:46 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:07 am So with all the crap being given other teams for not signing SFs QB reject are they going to get any grief for not signing him instead?

Heh - not so much. We are signing him per Schefter.

Edit: Sorry - not so much. Peter King was fooled by fake Schefter twitter account. My bad.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:58 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:46 am Well that's a shock to wake up to. I feel like I've lost a member of the family or broken up with a girlfriend. Wow.

you go to bed at 8:30?

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:59 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:07 am So with all the crap being given other teams for not signing SFs QB reject are they going to get any grief for not signing him instead?

I know you're trolling, and I should just ignore, but just gotta inform the troll that Kap walked away from the 49ers, not the other way around.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:07 pm

Kelric wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:42 amIt is either Gase / management trying to send a signal to the rest of the team

As someone on Twitter pointed out - what signal was he trying to send? That if you play poorly they'll trade you to a playoff contender?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:15 pm

naednek wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:58 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:46 am Well that's a shock to wake up to. I feel like I've lost a member of the family or broken up with a girlfriend. Wow.
you go to bed at 8:30?

7:30 actually. Eastern.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:23 pm

Don't know what the Bills gave up, but they just traded for Kelvin Benjamin. As long as it's nothing crazy, I approve.

Edit to add: A 3rd and a 7th. I'm not sure if the 7th is this year or next year, as I thought they already traded that 7th away (it was a conditional, so maybe the conditions weren't met and the pick reverted?).

Either way, they've still got 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5 round picks in 2018, so I'm cool with that price tag.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:31 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:15 pm
naednek wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:58 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:46 am Well that's a shock to wake up to. I feel like I've lost a member of the family or broken up with a girlfriend. Wow.
you go to bed at 8:30?
7:30 actually. Eastern.

Most people don't know this, but stessier is actually 7 years old. He's very precocious.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:33 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:31 pm Most people don't know this, but stessier is actually 7 years old. He's very precocious.

This explains his WW game style.

[This post was my 10,000th. It only took El Guapo, err me 11 years to do it.]

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:06 pm

naednek wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:59 pm
Rip wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:07 am So with all the crap being given other teams for not signing SFs QB reject are they going to get any grief for not signing him instead?
I know you're trolling, and I should just ignore, but just gotta inform the troll that Kap walked away from the 49ers, not the other way around.

Actually I didn't know that. I thought they released him.

Nice, that kinda makes the story of him suing the NFL because none of them hired him even more mock-worthy. Thx.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:32 pm

LOL.

The Bengals and Browns attempted a deal where AJ McCarron would wind up in Cleveland. Cincy let the NFL know in time. Cleveland failed. Deal did not happen.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:24 pm

It is senseless that these teams wait until the last possible instant and then fuck things up. The Pats managed to do their deal with SF last night. Did either side there run the risk of not filing paperwork on time?

That said, the Bills and Panthers agreed to the terms of the trade at 3:57 pm and both sides managed to get the paperwork in on time in less than 3 minutes.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:28 pm

Probably best for the Browns; I highly doubt McCarron would be their answer at QB. Of course, being Cleveland, anyone they get is doomed to fail.