Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi

[Hyena]

Had my speakers cranked up, and that music at the end.... Wow.

Wondering if all the rumors of Luke being a "grey Jedi" have now been proven? In most stories (canon and "former canon") have stressed how he has extensive experience with both light and dark sides.

[hepcat]

I'm ready for some bad ass Luke. That poster seems to indicate I'm going to be getting it.

[Redfive]

I'm ready for some bad ass Luke. That poster seems to indicate I'm going to be getting it.

Yeah, I've said this a couple times in other threads. If Luke is going to go I just hope he gets to lay some epic Jedi beat down before it happens. I could live with that--actually I'd love that.

[Hrothgar]

I saw a video onlline the other day that said that the Empire had over 25,000 star destroyers in its navy around the time of RotJ. I believe I had asked the question about what happened to the Empire after Palpatine's death and the answer was that the snake died when its head was cut off. Have any of the books said what happened to all of these star destroyers? Are they all sitting on various planets being used for scrap?

The now non canon Zahn books stated that they required a huge crew and were notoriously difficult to maintain. As the Empire splintered, few had the resources in men and materiel to keep them running. Most who did were Imperial leaders who came in conflict with the ever expanding New Republic. In short they were something only a huge empire could afford.

Speaking of Zahn, he has a new Star Wars book, Thrawn, out now.

[Scoop20906]

I liked the trailer especially the text of it. The is the light side of the force, the side of the force and the balance between the two. And Like said there is so much more. Should be interesting where they go with this.


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[Bakhtosh]

I'd imagine that it's time for the Jedi to end, but you have to end the Sith at the same time.

What concerns me is: the age-old tale of good vs evil is classic because it resonates. How will the shift to a druidic order of force users play for future movies and even toy sales? Almost every kid wanted to be a heroic Jedi, wielding a saber, battling the dark side.

[El Guapo]

I'd imagine that it's time for the Jedi to end, but you have to end the Sith at the same time.

What concerns me is: the age-old tale of good vs evil is classic because it resonates. How will the shift to a druidic order of force users play for future movies and even toy sales? Almost every kid wanted to be a heroic Jedi, wielding a saber, battling the dark side.

I don't think that they would be abandoning good vs. evil exactly - I'm sure that Rey (and probably Luke) are still going to go off and fight evil Sith (or at least, evil force-wielders). I assume that "ending the Jedi" refers either to founding a new order to replace the Jedi Order (the Republican Party to the Jedi's Whig Party), or possibly to abandoning the general idea of a rigid Order (while still training people to use the force for good rather than for evil). Reforming / replacing the Jedi Order would also fit well with the whole "prophecy of balance to the Force" thing.

Mainly I just hope that Luke never falls to the dark side in this trilogy, as that would (unless done really well) undermine his fundamental character arc in the OT.

[Kasey Chang]

My warsie friend said that this the war between jedi and sith will end with the creation of "gray jedis", that balances between dark and light. That's what the title was referring to.

[dbt1949]

I'm not sure the title means the end of the Jedi. More like the last Jedi fighting.

[Daehawk]

My warsie friend said that this the war between jedi and sith will end with the creation of "gray jedis", that balances between dark and light. That's what the title was referring to.

Thats how I see it. In the end Anakin does bring balance by having Luke. I wonder if Kyle Katarn will make a show.

[McNutt]

Mainly I just hope that Luke never falls to the dark side in this trilogy, as that would (unless done really well) undermine his fundamental character arc in the OT.

I'm not sure I totally understand the dark side or even what it means to be a Jedi or Sith. The movies make it look black and white. Jedi = good, Sith = evil. But what about those who follow their own path and don't adhere to either?

Also, say Luke does turn to the dark side. It seemed like he did that in RoTJ to defeat Vader and then was able to keep it in check and not become a bad guy. Can you use the dark side and still be morally good? Also, just because you embrace the dark side doesn't mean you are friends to all bad guys, right? So Luke could become a full dark side badass and still not be down with Snoke and Kylo Ren.

So long as Luke doesn't deal in absolutes, I"m okay with him testing the waters.

[Unagi]

I'd imagine that it's time for the Jedi to end, but you have to end the Sith at the same time.

What concerns me is: the age-old tale of good vs evil is classic because it resonates. How will the shift to a druidic order of force users play for future movies and even toy sales? Almost every kid wanted to be a heroic Jedi, wielding a saber, battling the dark side.

Dark Grey vs Light Grey
duh.

[Moat_Man]

Imagine the Jedi are a religion, with a hierarchy and rules to reinforce their belief structure (master and apprentice, jedi council, etc.). I think that is what Luke wants to nuke as it led to the rise of a mirror image on the opposite side (Sith). He isn't talking about getting rid of, or stopping the use of the force. You can't do that as it's a part of you.

The Last Jedi is plural (as confirmed by the French title) so it means Luke will train Rey, maybe despite what he thinks about ending the Jedi hierarchy, and she will go off and battle Kylo Ren and the First Order.

We like calling them Jedi because it's cool but we will probably have to rethink what that means. It would be like the Catholic Church = Jedi order, then Martin Luther comes along and reforms it, voila Protestants = ? nu-Jedi?

I dunno, we'll find out in December.

[El Guapo]

Mainly I just hope that Luke never falls to the dark side in this trilogy, as that would (unless done really well) undermine his fundamental character arc in the OT.

I'm not sure I totally understand the dark side or even what it means to be a Jedi or Sith. The movies make it look black and white. Jedi = good, Sith = evil. But what about those who follow their own path and don't adhere to either?

Also, say Luke does turn to the dark side. It seemed like he did that in RoTJ to defeat Vader and then was able to keep it in check and not become a bad guy. Can you use the dark side and still be morally good? Also, just because you embrace the dark side doesn't mean you are friends to all bad guys, right? So Luke could become a full dark side badass and still not be down with Snoke and Kylo Ren.

So long as Luke doesn't deal in absolutes, I"m okay with him testing the waters.

Luke definitely started to give into the dark side at the very end of the fight in RotJ, but was barely able to keep himself in check and going over the edge. Basically, he was tempted, but didn't give in. That's Luke's defining triumph in the OT (and his "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" line is I think the most powerful moment in the trilogy). If Luke synthesizes Light and Dark, or finds some new way to understand the Force, fine, but if he basically just goes Sith and becomes a villain, that will suck.

Also, as a side note, the prequels would've been 10,000% better if Dooku was a grey Jedi who knew that Palpatine was a Sith, wasn't believed by the Jedi, and launched the Separatist War to save at least half the galaxy.

[McNutt]

Dooku would have been a great character had he not been just some dumb evil tool. I'll agree with you there.

[Zaxxon]

Actually, Johnson confirmed at Celebration that Jedi is singular in the title. Saw an article on that earlier today. I had previously seen the French thing, too, so who knows at this point.

[Moat_Man]

Actually, Johnson confirmed at Celebration that Jedi is singular in the title. Saw an article on that earlier today. I had previously seen the French thing, too, so who knows at this point.

Interesting...

[$iljanus]

Actually, Johnson confirmed at Celebration that Jedi is singular in the title. Saw an article on that earlier today. I had previously seen the French thing, too, so who knows at this point.

Hmm, I wonder if Luke is due for a "ghosting" and will turn into a nagging force ghost at the end of the upcoming movie? I hope he doesn't go out like Obi Wan in the original Star Wars which was fine for back then but we're kind of spoiled nowadays regarding lightsaber fighting.

[Daehawk]

By this time where is Mara Jade?

[$iljanus]

By this time where is Mara Jade?

Probably a victim of the great Disney purge where there was a great cry of terror and surprise then silence as various characters were written out of the new canon. Or if she's of some use to the Mouse who knows...

[El Guapo]

By this time where is Mara Jade?

Remus lives in the Detroit area, I believe.

[Scoop20906]

I'm not so sure that Snoke is a Sith. Kylo is a Knight of Ren. The implies a different sort of order. No Darth.

Also, Kylo has sort of connection with his grandfather (Vader). I wouldn't be surprised if he is hiding this from Snoke who would see Vader as a rival.

It's also possible that Kylo was self taught in the force and started his own Knights of Ren and Snoke co-op him promising to show him more powers of the force. Complete is training.


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[El Guapo]

I'm not so sure that Snoke is a Sith. Kylo is a Knight of Ren. The implies a different sort of order. No Darth.

Also, Kylo has sort of connection with his grandfather (Vader). I wouldn't be surprised if he is hiding this from Snoke who would see Vader as a rival.

It's also possible that Kylo was self taught in the force and started his own Knights of Ren and Snoke co-op him promising to show him more powers of the force. Complete is training.


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On the last point, Episode 7 is clear that Kylo (Ben) was trained by Luke before turning to the dark side. Possible that Kylo may have done some self-training in the dark side, I suppose, although Han (or Leia?) talk about Snoke seducing Kylo to the dark side.

But you are right that there's no indication that Kylo or Snoke are "Sith", as opposed to a different type of dark side user, including the non-Darth usage.

[Zarathud]

It is inconceivable that Snoke has no idea about Ben Solo/Kylo Ren's family history.

I expect Luke tried to explain Anakin/Vader in a favorable light and his philosophy of strength appealed to Ben/Kylo given the problems re-establishing peace after the fall of the Empire.

[Scoop20906]

Here is something else I just realized. Kylo and the Knights of Ren killed all of the Jedi in training but I see no way the Kylo could defeat Luke Skywalker. I'm sure it's something like Luke left his pupils in the care of someone else while he went on some adventure.

But the images of the Knights of Ren in Rey's vision are the most excited I've been about Star Wars in a long time (about a galaxy far, far away).


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[Bakhtosh]

Here is something else I just realized. Kylo and the Knights of Ren killed all of the Jedi in training but I see no way the Kylo could defeat Luke Skywalker. I'm sure it's something like Luke left his pupils in the care of someone else while he went on some adventure.

But the images of the Knights of Ren in Rey's vision are the most excited I've been about Star Wars in a long time (about a galaxy far, far away).


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Ben is his Nephew. Probably his most promising student. Maybe Luke just couldn't bring himself to kill him. Kylo didn't have a Jedi-built lightsaber. His is crude and unconventional. Maybe Luke was training his students in ways of non-violence, de-emphasizing or even forbidding lightsabers.

[El Guapo]

Here is something else I just realized. Kylo and the Knights of Ren killed all of the Jedi in training but I see no way the Kylo could defeat Luke Skywalker. I'm sure it's something like Luke left his pupils in the care of someone else while he went on some adventure.

But the images of the Knights of Ren in Rey's vision are the most excited I've been about Star Wars in a long time (about a galaxy far, far away).


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Ben is his Nephew. Probably his most promising student. Maybe Luke just couldn't bring himself to kill him. Kylo didn't have a Jedi-built lightsaber. His is crude and unconventional. Maybe Luke was training his students in ways of non-violence, de-emphasizing or even forbidding lightsabers.

There is the question of what happened to the other Knights of Ren, given that we don't see any of them in Episode 7. One possibility is that they're elsewhere in the galaxy (either assisting the First Order in other military operations, or maybe back with Snoke training, or something), but it's also possible that Luke killed some or all of them in the flashback flight. And as you say, possible that he let Kylo go.

Also, having to kill a big chunk of his former students seems like the kind of thing that could push him into self-imposed exile.

[McNutt]

I've only seen Episode VII once and don't remember much about Rey's flashback. Would you mind describing the Knights of Ren that she saw?

[Unagi]

I wonder also - is "Ren" a title or clan name - or is it Kylo's name.

In other words: Were these the Knights of Kylo Ren , or is Kylo just one of many many Rens that are no longer part of the scene.

[DD*]

Dooku would have been a great character had he not been just some dumb evil tool. I'll agree with you there.

Yep, but for the luv'a Pete, Lucas (and others, I assume) come up with some horrible names. Dooku? Snoke? Jar-Jar? Really, that's the best they can do? Ugh.

[rshetts2]

Dooku would have been a great character had he not been just some dumb evil tool. I'll agree with you there.

Yep, but for the luv'a Pete, Lucas (and others, I assume) come up with some horrible names. Dooku? Snoke? Jar-Jar? Really, that's the best they can do? Ugh.

You have not yet figured out that those names are aimed at children? The primary value in those characters is in marketing toys. So yeah, that's what you are going to get. It may be "ugh" to you but its made Lucas a billionaire.

[Moliere]

Super Cafe: The Last Trailer
Watch Superman and Batman discuss the new trailer.

[Scoop20906]

Super Cafe: The Last Trailer
Watch Superman and Batman discuss the new trailer.

"Like David Pumpkins.'

Wow, great stuff.

[Punisher]

I saw a video onlline the other day that said that the Empire had over 25,000 star destroyers in its navy around the time of RotJ. I believe I had asked the question about what happened to the Empire after Palpatine's death and the answer was that the snake died when its head was cut off. Have any of the books said what happened to all of these star destroyers? Are they all sitting on various planets being used for scrap?

Book/movie spoilers??

Spoiler:

I am on book 3 of the VII prequel trilogy books, however, while in lines at Celebration, lot's of things were discussed and the 3rd book/fate of the Empire were one of them.
Long story short.. The remnants of the military take off to the outer rims and they eventually become the First Order..

[Holman]

link

[Hyena]

link

Yeah, he also thought it was ok to allow the title "The Death of Qui-gon" on the back of the soundtrack, which was released beforee the movie was...

[McNutt]

I remember seeing that title on the soundtrack in a Hallmark store. I was more pissed about that spoiler than I was for being in a Hallmark store.

[Isgrimnur]

Screen Rant

Director Rian Johnson and star Mark Hamill recommend fans avoid any further marketing or new footage from Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi. Similar to their marketing strategy for 2015’s Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Disney and Lucasfilm have kept almost all of the specific story details from The Last Jedi kept under tight lock and key over the past year. Not only has the studio only released one mysterious teaser trailer for The Last Jedi up until this point, but fans still have yet to see any official footage or details about some of the film’s more prominent characters, including Benicio del Toro’s DJ and Andy Serkis’ villainous Supreme Leader Snoke.

While that may seem like a strange move on the part of Disney and Lucasfilm — when it comes to promoting arguably the largest film set to hit theaters this year — the marketing strategy has paid off in spades for the studios up until this point. It doesn’t hurt that most Star Wars fans nowadays try to steer clear of spoilers when it comes to the new films, an attitude that has only wound up complimenting Disney’s minimalistic marketing approach.

But it looks like Disney and Lucasfilm may end up showing more from The Last Jedi over the next few months than even Rian Johnson and Mark Hamill would like fans to see. In fact, the two Last Jedi collaborators took to Twitter recently, to urge fans to avoid as much of the film’s marketing campaign as they can from now on, leading up to its eventual theatrical release in December:

Marketing...

[Isgrimnur]

[pr0ner]

Really is a shame Rian Johnson isn't directing Episode 9.