Insomnia Is Fun

[tgb]

I've always gotten very little sleep, waking up around 5 or 6 no matter when I went to bed, but wracking up my back in a car accident 20 years ago has made it much much worse. It's a rare night that I don't wake up at some point needing a pain killer. Usually a Tramadol and a cup of herbal tea would help me get back to sleep about an hour later, and I can get another hour or two of shuteye before tlr gets up for work at 4.

Last week I sprained my groin muscle somehow, and the pain from that has compounded things greatly. The best my doctor could offer is "take Ibuprofin", which I have to be wary of due to my history with ulcers. I can't even drink myself into a stupor any more.

My inclination is to play a game for a while, but that, too, only makes things worse. I just spent the last hour awake in bed thinking of strategies to try in Afghanistan '11.

I'm averaging 3 hours of sleep a night. Every few nights I finally get so exhausted that I might get 6 or 7, but even that isn't making up for it. During the day at work I doze off at my desk, usually while sitting on hold on the phone waiting for an exhibitor to pick up. Yesterday I dozed off while browsing Steam, and woke up when my head met my printer.

Before anyone brings up the caffeine question, I have one cup of coffee a day, usually around 6AM. Anything else I drink throughout the day is caffeine-free.

So I turn to the hive mind for suggestions. Help me, OObi-wan. You're my only hope.

[rshetts2]

I have issues myself. I have a fit bit and my average amount of sleep is under 4 hours a night. Because of this I am exhausted all of the time. For years I dealt with my sleep issues as being tangential to some of my other medical issues and never addressed it as an individual issue. I tried over the counter remedies and home remedies and none of that works worth a damn. It wasnt until I focused on my sleep problems as an issue outside of everything else, that I was finally able to take steps to address the lack of sleep directly. After a couple of attempts, my doctor finally got my insurance to authorise a sleep study. Therefore in early April, I go spend a night at a special wing in the hospital that is set up for this. Hopefully this study will give me some answers as to how I can improve the quality of my sleep. Anyway my advice to you is don't look to an internet forum to find your answers. If you're actually getting that low level of sleep, you need professional assistance.

[hepcat]

I had it bad for a while and I eventually saw a therapist who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy. It really worked wonders, I still feel like I can't sleep some nights, but I have the tools now to overcome that feeling the majority of the time.

[tgb]

I have issues myself. I have a fit bit and my average amount of sleep is under 4 hours a night. Because of this I am exhausted all of the time. For years I dealt with my sleep issues as being tangential to some of my other medical issues and never addressed it as an individual issue. I tried over the counter remedies and home remedies and none of that works worth a damn. It wasnt until I focused on my sleep problems as an issue outside of everything else, that I was finally able to take steps to address the lack of sleep directly. After a couple of attempts, my doctor finally got my insurance to authorise a sleep study. Therefore in early April, I go spend a night at a special wing in the hospital that is set up for this. Hopefully this study will give me some answers as to how I can improve the quality of my sleep. Anyway my advice to you is don't look to an internet forum to find your answers. If you're actually getting that low level of sleep, you need professional assistance.

I had a UPP done for Sleep Apnea years ago, but this is different. With SA you think you're getting enough sleep but you aren't.

In my situation I know I'm awake most of the night. I'm exhausted, but not sleepy. I just can't seem to turn my mind off.

[rshetts2]

Sorry to hear that, Tgb. I have solved my "cant shut the brain down" issues and am able to fall asleep pretty quickly now. My solution? I have rheumatoid arthritis and because of that have been approved for medicinal marijuana in Michigan, for pain control. I do a vape session before bed time and that helps substantially, making it easier to go to sleep. It also helps make me sleepy and keeps my mind from wandering and dwelling on things. I usually read for about 15 minutes and by that time I can nod off quite easily.
I can highly recommend vaping a good high THC Indica strain before bed, that has helped me quite a bit.

Unfortunately, falling to sleep is not my problem, its staying asleep and the poor quality of the sleep I get. My last fitbit report shows that my sleep last night had 27 sleep interruptions and 5 full awake occurrences. Im in bed for 7 hours but only sleeping for 3-4 hours of that time. It sucks.

[Kraken]

I routinely get 5-6 hours a night plus an hour-long nap in the late afternoon, and my body's generally pretty cool with that routine. I've never really had insomnia, but at some point in the past I thought I needed a sleep aid so I tried melatonin. It did help me fall asleep, but also exacerbated my chronic depression, so I had to lay off that stuff. If you haven't tried it and you don't have depression, you might give it a whirl.

I see that rshetts already mentioned cannabis; that's certainly worth a try. I've also read that excessive screen time messes up one's sleep cycle -- something about the wavelength of light that a monitor puts out. So maybe hitting the computer when you wake up is counterproductive. Something to investigate if you, like most of us here, spend an inordinate amount of time gaming, watching tv, and dinking around on your smartphone. I often spend most of my waking hours looking at one screen or another.

[Isgrimnur]

Start with Benadryl, then see if the doc will give you some Ambien. For the mind issue, try meditation/breathing focus. It takes effort, and I'm still an amateur at it, but every time you spin off to thinking about something else, you have to refocus.

[Freyland]

Groin Sprain and ulcers: Talk to your doc about Celebrex. NSAID with much much less stomach-related activity.

Sleep: Consider reading (book, not screen) an educational topic that does not interest you greatly. Something dry and tedious will shut your brain down nicely. Money-back guarantee.

Freyland MD

[Freyland]

Start with Benadryl, then see if the doc will give you some Ambien. For the mind issue, try meditation/breathing focus. It takes effort, and I'm still an amateur at it, but every time you spin off to thinking about something else, you have to refocus.

For some reason I have it in my head that tgb is an older gentleman. I am always slow to recommend "mind-bending" meds to my older patients for risk of confusion, falls, exacerbation of his obvious dementia ( ) and what-not. If I am way off on the age, my apologies.

[tgb]

Start with Benadryl, then see if the doc will give you some Ambien. For the mind issue, try meditation/breathing focus. It takes effort, and I'm still an amateur at it, but every time you spin off to thinking about something else, you have to refocus.

I've been taking 50 Mg. Benadryl nightly for years, and it had been working up until recently. My doctor recommended Tylenol PM, which worked the first night but not the second. He said if that didn't help after a week to give him a call and he'd write a script for Ambien, but I'd rather not given my addictive personality and history of drug use.

Speaking of which, tllr has a medical marijuana card (although we haven't renewed it yet since it's pricey), and others have suggested a hit before bedtime, but that seems like a waste of a good buzz to me.

For the record, Freyland, I'll be 65 in August. I don't know if you consider that "elderly" or not.

[Freyland]

Start with Benadryl, then see if the doc will give you some Ambien. For the mind issue, try meditation/breathing focus. It takes effort, and I'm still an amateur at it, but every time you spin off to thinking about something else, you have to refocus.

I've been taking 50 Mg. Benadryl nightly for years, and it had been working up until recently. My doctor recommended Tylenol PM, which worked the first night but not the second. He said if that didn't help after a week to give him a call and he'd write a script for Ambien, but I'd rather not given my addictive personality and history of drug use.

Speaking of which, tllr has a medical marijuana card (although we haven't renewed it yet since it's pricey), and others have suggested a hit before bedtime, but that seems like a waste of a good buzz to me.

For the record, Freyland, I'll be 65 in August. I don't know if you consider that "elderly" or not.

Technically....
...
...
Yes. Would definitely be wary of Ambien. Sticking to my dry reading suggestion.

[The Meal]

I typically get out of bed between 4 and 5am. MHS pointed out that if she had my sleep schedule, she'd rule the world. I took that as a challenge to actually *do something* with that time (other than websurfing and gaming) and started (beginning of 2017) doing exercises.

Well wouldn't you know it, now that I'm on a regular exercise regimen (and eating a little bit better), it's pretty difficult to open my eyes before 5:30am.

I know it's an anathema to many of us, but if not getting sleep is REALLY bothering you, consider getting some light exercise (build up to it, of course) such as walking or swimming and the like. I got a recumbent indoor cycle for Christmas and find it comfortable enough (and convenient enough!) to sit and pedal and watch Netflix for 30 minutes 6 days a week. I've also added equipment-free floor exercises (sit ups, push ups) with the idea that I'm building up to evening hours couch-to-5k come April. This isn't what would work for everyone, but I'm guessing for the properly motivated everyone can find *some* exercise that their body would allow.

Best luck.

[Zarathud]

Sleep: Consider reading (book, not screen) an educational topic that does not interest you greatly. Something dry and tedious will shut your brain down nicely. Money-back guarantee.

Freyland MD

If reading the Internal Revenue Code does not start putting you to sleep, you may have found a new career opportunity.

[Kraken]

Speaking of which, tllr has a medical marijuana card (although we haven't renewed it yet since it's pricey), and others have suggested a hit before bedtime, but that seems like a waste of a good buzz to me.

Since drowsiness doesn't set in until the buzz fades, you'd get a two-fer. Take your medicine an hour before bedtime and enjoy. Honestly, since you already have access I'd really recommend trying that before going to pharmaceuticals.

[Isgrimnur]

Tylenol PM is 500 mg of Acetaminophen and 25 mg of Benadryl per pill.

[Freyland]

Tylenol PM is 500 mg of Acetaminophen and 25 mg of Benadryl per pill.

I was operating under the assumption his doc switched him to Tylenol PM for the pain portion, but if not.... Yeah, don't take 50mg of benadryl and the Tylenol PM.

[tgb]

Tylenol PM is 500 mg of Acetaminophen and 25 mg of Benadryl per pill.

I was operating under the assumption his doc switched him to Tylenol PM for the pain portion, but if not.... Yeah, don't take 50mg of benadryl and the Tylenol PM.

No, I'm substituting it for the Benadryl. I do have Tylenol 3 w. Codeine on hand for my back, but I only take it when the pain is especially bad.

[ezmacncheese]

I've been taking 1600 mcg folinic acid and 4000 mg vitamin D a day for the past couple of months and I've been conking out at 9:30PM and sleeping through the night.

I have zero science to back any causation but it may be something to try? Just don't take the vitamin D close to bedtime.

[Kraken]

Codeine makes me sleep like the dead, but that stuff's addictive, and feeling dead isn't all that it's cracked up to be anyway.

[em2nought]

Sleep: Consider reading (book, not screen) an educational topic that does not interest you greatly. Something dry and tedious will shut your brain down nicely. Money-back guarantee.

Freyland MD

If reading the Internal Revenue Code does not start putting you to sleep, you may have found a new career opportunity.

Sure, give him hypertension, and the possibility of a brain aneurysm instead.

[dbt1949]

I haven't slept well in over a decade.
So instead of sleeping I play on my PC or I read. It got so that even when I'm sleepy I prefer to stay awake. This makes me sleepy. It's all a Catch 22.

[stessier]

Unfortunately, falling to sleep is not my problem, its staying asleep and the poor quality of the sleep I get. My last fitbit report shows that my sleep last night had 27 sleep interruptions and 5 full awake occurrences. Im in bed for 7 hours but only sleeping for 3-4 hours of that time. It sucks.

FWIW, Fit Bits track sleep using their accelerometer. It assumes if you move that arm enough, you are awake. It's possible you are just having a dream and flailing and it would still show you as awake. Just something to consider when using their data.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Have you considered medical marijuana? If memory serves, it's certainly an option in AZ.

(Edit: I just read further down the thread and noticed you mentioned tlr having an expired card; still, it's definitely worthy of consideration if you're dealing with insomnia and muscle pain)

Insomnia can be maddening — cannabis can help
Besides easing insomnia, marijuana seems to have a wide range of effects on sleep.

This is because chemicals in marijuana, known as cannabinoids, actually mimic the activity of chemicals found naturally in the brain. It’s cannabinol (CBN) that makes you sleepy.

When we look at the construction of cannabis, we find that it has over 80 cannabinoids. Until recently, tetrahydrocannbinol (THC) was the only cannabinoid anyone seemed to care about. It’s cannabinol (CBN) that makes you sleepy.

What Are The Benefits Of Cannabinol (CBN)?
Cannabis is widely used as a sleep-aid for those who suffer from insomnia and cannabinol is the reason why. By all accounts, CBN is the cannabinoid responsible for the sedative effects of cannabis.

...

How Marijuana Affects Your Sleep

1. Easier Falling Asleep: Some of the earliest research on marijuana and sleep shows that marijuana’s main ingredient, THC, can significantly reduce the time it takes for both insomniacs and healthy people to fall asleep.In a small study published in 1973, THC reduced the time it took for 9 subjects with insomnia to fall asleep by over an hour on average. However, the researchers noted that too high of a dose could counteract the effect.THC was also found to ease falling asleep in a 2013 study involving healthy subjects.
2. Longer Sleep: Early studies also revealed that taking either THC or CBD before bed could lead to an increase in overall sleep. In one study, increasing the dose of THC also increased the amount of time spent sleeping.However, higher doses of THC also caused a “hang over” feeling in some subjects when they woke up, while the feeling was not present at lower doses.
3. More Deep: Some of the more interesting effects of marijuana on sleep involve its impact on the sleep cycle. Studies show that THC can increase the amount of slow-wave sleep, also known as deep sleep, that an user experiences during their slumber.This is likely a good thing, since deep sleep is believed to play a major role in the restoration process that occurs during sleep.What’s more, experts believe that the most damaging effects of sleep deprivation result from a lack of slow-wave sleep. For example, research has shown that reduced slow-wave sleep can be a strong predictor of high blood pressure in older men.

Here are some additional recommended cannabis strains for sleep and insomnia.

[mori]

Have you talked to your physician? They will most likely have you go through a sleep study. Do it. It makes it much easier to diagnose the correct means of treatment. But if you are resistant to that, lose weight and exercise. Better for you than self medicating.

[hitbyambulance]

Have you talked to your physician? They will most likely have you go through a sleep study. Do it. It makes it much easier to diagnose the correct means of treatment. But if you are resistant to that, lose weight and exercise.

yes, do this

Better for you than self medicating.

this is what my dad does. don't be my dad.

[gbasden]

So, for those recommending cannabis, I have a question. I've tried edibles twice since I have an issue with smoke, and both times I ended up feeling nauseous. The second time I went full on vomiting. Is that a known possible reaction to pot, or could it have been the edible?

Thanks!

[rshetts2]

So, for those recommending cannabis, I have a question. I've tried edibles twice since I have an issue with smoke, and both times I ended up feeling nauseous. The second time I went full on vomiting. Is that a known possible reaction to pot, or could it have been the edible?

Thanks!

The problem with edibles is that they are relatively unregulated, although that is changing. They are properly made with a concentrated form of marijuana, generally with an infused butter or oil but many people who make them have no clue as to how to make them properly. If you eat too much of an edible it can cause some physical discomfort, usually in the form of vertigo ( which I guess if strong enough may cause nausea but Ive never heard of it causing vomiting ) but generally the main effect is mild paranoia. The best thing to do is to just sleep it off. There is nothing on record where overdosing on THC has caused any permanent damage. Concentrates are extremely potent, as much as 4 times as potent as the plant itself. If the person making the edible uses too much of the infused concentrate in your edible, its very easy to get too strong a dose by eating too much of the edible at once. This happens often with brownies. Most brownies Ive seen in dispensaries are now labeled as containing 4 doses. You are only supposed to eat 1/4 of the brownie at once. Unaware of this at first, I once ate an entire brownie in one sitting. That was not fun at all! Its kind of like a hangover with paranoia thrown in. I ended up sleeping it off. I felt fine once I woke up and the effects had worn off.

[tgb]

We both have issues with smoke and prefer edibles - we get gummi bears that (supposedly) contain 20mg THC, but they seem to be inconsistent. The first time I ate half of one I got high as a kite and very paranoid. Other times I've had about a third of one and barely felt anything.

[rshetts2]

A bit of advice if you do plan on trying edibles. Avoid the classic rookie mistake of not understanding how edibles hit your system. Smoking or vaping will give you the effects rather quickly but it takes awhile to get the THC into your system when digested. Generally its about 40-60 minutes before you feel the effects. So many people have taken an edible and after ten minutes said, "Well that did nothing, I guess I had better eat another" Please do not do that!

[Anonymous Bosch]

We both have issues with smoke and prefer edibles - we get gummi bears that (supposedly) contain 20mg THC, but they seem to be inconsistent. The first time I ate half of one I got high as a kite and very paranoid. Other times I've had about a third of one and barely felt anything.

Bear in mind though, in terms of helping with insomnia, it's the cannabinol (CBN) that'll be most beneficial for your needs. Also, as the link above mentions, high-THC strains can often worsen the effects of anxiety for some:

• Indicas tend to treat insomnia most effectively. Sativa strains can have an “upper” effect on some, making it more difficult to sleep. Some theories say this is due to differences in chemical makeup.
• Edibles can help you stay asleep longer. Though inhaling cannabis yields faster effects, edibles last a lot longer.
• Aged cannabis can have sleepier effects than fresh flower. It may not sound as appetizing, but older cannabis is shown to contain higher levels of a sedating chemical called cannabinol (CBN).
• Go easy on the high-THC strains if it’s anxiety keeping you up. A light dose of these strains can float you to sleep, but larger doses can worsen anxiety in some. You may also want to try a strain with some CBD in it if you’re sensitive to THC, as it often eases its anxious side effects.

BTW, if you'have issues with smoke, vaporizers have improved by leaps and bounds over the past several years, and typically provide a much healthier alternative to smoking. Here's a useful buyer's guide from Business Insider on some of the best vaporizers on the market.

[Montag]

Tried melatonin? For giggles try no screen time at least 1 hour before attempting to sleep, preferably more. Do this for a few days to see if it makes a difference. Another thing is to look at your lighting - are you more cool than warm in color? Blue light messes with the sleep cycle.

[MJMari]

We both have issues with smoke and prefer spam.

[Blackhawk]

People keep mentioning 'screens', here and in other places. It isn't rows of pixels that keep you awake, it is bright light that makes your brain think it is daytime. When our eyes see blue colored light, our brains think it is the sky and it's time to wake up. Reading a paper book isn't much better if you're sitting under a bright light to do it.

Your best bet is to read on a tablet or Kindle, but set up a nighttime mode. Set the background to black, the font to a color that isn't too hard to read (I use a light amber), and turn on a bluelight filter. Read in the dark, and turn down the brightness to the lowest comfortable level.