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[tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Zaxxon » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:09 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I thought the order was not to interfere because those redhead dudes were so much more technologically advanced than humans that they would just kill them without a second thought.
Yeah, and that then they'd be totally OK with Bachelor re-runs instead.

This encapsulates my problem with the show. It can be an off-the-wall comedy, or it can be an earnest Trek impersonator. It can't be both--each side undermines the other, and it's incredibly jarring.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by TheMix » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:14 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I thought the order was not to interfere because those redhead dudes were so much more technologically advanced than humans that they would just kill them without a second thought.
That was my take as well. I thought it was covered pretty clearly.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:18 am

So technologically advanced that the ship sized version of draping a trenchcoat around two people to make them look taller gets them through their planetary defenses?

In any case, they seemed fine with the 1980's robot character walking around their planet with another species, and they were making no attempt to hide the fact that they routinely kidnapped and jailed innocent beings from all across the universe, so I find it hard to believe no one knew this was happening. I highly doubt a thousand worlds would just collectively shrug their shoulders and exclaim, "What can you do? They like enslaving our people".
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Daehawk » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:25 am

Zaxxon wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I thought the order was not to interfere because those redhead dudes were so much more technologically advanced than humans that they would just kill them without a second thought.
Yeah, and that then they'd be totally OK with Bachelor re-runs instead.

This encapsulates my problem with the show. It can be an off-the-wall comedy, or it can be an earnest Trek impersonator. It can't be both--each side undermines the other, and it's incredibly jarring.
Id prefer them to soften up on the joking and be more serious. But its Seth so i cant expect that. Its Jarring but I like his humor so being stuck with it is still better than most other crap out.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by TheMix » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:29 am

hepcat wrote:So technologically advanced that the ship sized version of draping a trenchcoat around two people to make them look taller gets them through their planetary defenses?
Okay, yeah, that part made me go "WTF?". And I also thought it odd that none of the "regular people" on the planet paid any attention to the robot and his "pet". But I didn't get the impression that having visitors happened very often. So I didn't really have an issue with the zoo.

Mostly I just don't think about things too much. I've just let it be what it is.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:41 am

And that's fine. But I would just like them to either make up their mind about what kind of show they want to be...or create something new and original. Not just toss two disparate things together and hope they work each week. Because for me, they're not.

What I would love to see is the show embracing its attempts to marry those things in a way that give us something unique. But it seems almost afraid to take that step. Instead sticking to the formulaic aspects of the shows it apes.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:45 am

hepcat wrote:So technologically advanced that the ship sized version of draping a trenchcoat around two people to make them look taller gets them through their planetary defenses?

In any case, they seemed fine with the 1980's robot character walking around their planet with another species, and they were making no attempt to hide the fact that they routinely kidnapped and jailed innocent beings from all across the universe, so I find it hard to believe no one knew this was happening. I highly doubt a thousand worlds would just collectively shrug their shoulders and exclaim, "What can you do? They like enslaving our people".
Only because you mentioned being such a fan, do Star Trek...fans analyze the logic of any of those shows? Was there never an episode where a character disobeyed an order and was subsequently rewarded (and praised) for making the right choice? I guess what I'm saying is that if I were to take out the humor elements, (to me) this looks and feels like a Star Trek episode. There was an explosion and people waving devices with glowing LEDs over busted steel. There's a character struggling with her role on the ship, seeking advice from an older, wiser mentor. There's a human that doesn't understand the cultural practices of an alien crew member. That's why I don't think this is parody in any way - they're seemingly really trying to make a Star Trek homage but with that comedy element.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:52 am

Of course Star Trek had its faults. I'm not trying to say it was a perfect model of consistency and logic when it came to execution. Although a plot hole as large as an entire civilization being allowed to kidnap and jail members of other civilizations would probably have not been treated as cavalier (which was my main point) in Star Trek.

You wanna be a comedy? Great, go for it! You wanna be a show that pays homage to the utopian ideas of Star Trek? Fantastic, we could use some inspiration in a world where the Kardashians reign with an iron and mascara covered fist. You wanna combine both? Great...but do so in a way that plays up the strengths in the writing of both, not the weaknesses.

p.s. I know how these kinds of discussions can dissolve into a "you're stupid if you like this!" and "you're too stupid to get it if you don't!", so let's be clear: if you like Orville, fantastic! I love Soldier with Kurt Russell...as a matter of fact, if it's on TV I literally have to stop whatever I'm doing and finish watching it. Same with Con Air. So I have ZERO room to criticize anyone for their taste in entertainment.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:55 am

Smoove_B wrote: Only because you mentioned being such a fan, do Star Trek...fans analyze the logic of any of those shows? Was there never an episode where a character disobeyed an order and was subsequently rewarded (and praised) for making the right choice?
TNG:
Clues
Redemption II

But in both of those cases, it was handled in a logical way.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Daehawk » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:56 am

Wow you guys are really over scrutinizing a dram/com show.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Zaxxon » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:57 am

hepcat wrote:Of course Star Trek had its faults. I'm not trying to say it was a perfect model of consistency and logic when it came to execution. Although a plot hole as large as an entire civilization being allowed to kidnap and jail members of other civilizations would probably have not been treated as cavalier (which was my main point) in Star Trek.

You wanna be a comedy? Great, go for it! You wanna be a show that pays homage to the utopian ideas of Star Trek? Fantastic, we could use some inspiration in a world where the Kardashians reign with an iron and mascara covered fist. You wanna combine both? Great...but do so in a way that plays up the strengths in the writing of both, not the weaknesses.

p.s. I know how these kinds of discussions can dissolve into a "you're stupid if you like this!" and "you're too stupid to get it if you don't!", so let's be clear: if you like Orville, fantastic! I love Soldier with Kurt Russell...as a matter of fact, if it's on TV I literally have to stop whatever I'm doing and finish watching it. Same with Con Air. So I have ZERO room to criticize anyone for their taste in entertainment.
This. It's possible for Orville to succeed and include both serious sci-fi, Trek-like stuff as well as comedy. See: Firefly. (Note, obviously I'm referring to the 'that show doesn't suck' type of success, not the 'stayed on the air on Fox for many seasons somehow' type of success.)

What they're doing now is failing at the serious and the comedic aspects because they aren't committing to either. Let's see if tomorrow's gender-reassignment episode makes progress. :pop:

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:59 am

Daehawk wrote:Wow you guys are really over scrutinizing a dram/com show.
Is this your first day on the Internet? :D

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:02 am

hepcat wrote:p.s. I know how these kinds of discussions can dissolve into a "you're stupid if you like this!" and "you're too stupid to get it if you don't!", so let's be clear: if you like Orville, fantastic! I love Soldier with Kurt Russell...as a matter of fact, if it's on TV I literally have to stop whatever I'm doing and finish watching it. Same with Con Air. So I have ZERO room to criticize anyone for their taste in entertainment.
Of course, yes. My (admittedly small) sample here suggests Star Trek fans don't like this show. I don't know if that's universal or just among the group here. I can't offer much insight as a casual, though I've stated in the past that of all the Star Trek I've watched, DS9 was my favorite (which, I understand is not as popular for hardcore fans of Star Trek). I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know if love or appreciation for the original is in any way impacting your ability to enjoy this show.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:02 am

Daehawk wrote:Wow you guys are really over scrutinizing a dram/com show.
We're just having some fun discussing it. I don't think anyone is getting bent out of shape over this. It's a friendly discussion on why some of us like it, some of us hate it and others think it could be better.

Except for Issie. He's just here to goad us into an open war. He exists on our hate. Drinks it in like a hell made gatorade. I swear, wherever there's pain and misery on these forums, there's Issie in the background spurring it on.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:04 am

Smoove_B wrote: though I've stated in the past that of all the Star Trek I've watched, DS9 was my favorite (which, I understand is not as popular for hardcore fans of Star Trek).
DS9 is my hands down favorite Star Trek franchise (as most around here know from any of the Star Trek threads that have popped up over the years, I consider Garak to be the single greatest Star Trek character to have ever existed). And while I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore ST fan, I'm definitely a fan.
Smoove_B wrote:I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know if love or appreciation for the original is in any way impacting your ability to enjoy this show.
Obviously I'm biased towards believing the better aspects of the origin of my opinions, but I honestly don't think so. I believe I'm just referencing them because the creators themselves have referenced it when trying to explain how it came about. And if they're going to do so, I think it's only fair to contextualize my criticisms likewise. I could just as easily omit any reference to Star Trek in my issues with the show and I think my critical points would still apply.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Daehawk » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:11 am

Of course, yes. My (admittedly small) sample here suggests Star Trek fans don't like this show.
Im a huge ST fan..always have been....and I really liked the first ep and think I will the rest. So Im in a minority? Strange..trek fans should enjoy it.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:14 am

Daehawk wrote: Strange..trek fans should enjoy it.
Just because the creators try to mimic Star Trek doesn't mean those who like Star Trek should enjoy it without hesitation. I could complain that fans of Star Wars aren't really fans of Star Wars if they don't like 1978's Starcrash.

...although let's be fair, Starcrash is one of the greatest B (well...F) movies ever made!
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Daehawk » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:17 am

Well I didn't mean they should like it because it mimics Trek a bit..i was thinking more that its a well made sci-fi show . Then you have the single ship mission based plots. Buts its just good :)
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by geezer » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:18 am

Zaxxon wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I thought the order was not to interfere because those redhead dudes were so much more technologically advanced than humans that they would just kill them without a second thought.
Yeah, and that then they'd be totally OK with Bachelor re-runs instead.

This encapsulates my problem with the show. It can be an off-the-wall comedy, or it can be...earnest.... It can't be both--each side undermines the other, and it's incredibly jarring.
One of my very favorite shows ever - M*A*S*H - managed it pretty well. I think that's what they're going for. I think the problem is McFarlane's humor isn't stylistically consistent with adult themes, and Trek isn't consistent with kiddie treatments, hence my lack of appreciation for the middle part of the second episode (where she's just running around being slapstick stupid).

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:29 am

One thing I should mention is that I love McFarlane's humor at times. American Dad is one of my favorites (Roger and Steve will crack me up every time). Family Guy still makes me laugh from time to time too. But his humor is never...well...subtle. I don't think he's capable of even being subtle. And to me, it almost feels like he's fighting himself in Orville to remain somewhat grounded in that regard. However, I don't think he's comfortable with that, and it seems to show in the awkwardness of tone and mood in the writing.

MASH is the perfect example of fitting the humor to the environment without sacrificing aspects from any area. Firefly did it too. The funny stuff felt organic, natural. Orville may just need to find its footing and figure out that formula if that's what they're shooting for. That's why I'm still watching, at least.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by gilraen » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:52 am

Smoove_B wrote: Of course, yes. My (admittedly small) sample here suggests Star Trek fans don't like this show. I don't know if that's universal or just among the group here. I can't offer much insight as a casual, though I've stated in the past that of all the Star Trek I've watched, DS9 was my favorite (which, I understand is not as popular for hardcore fans of Star Trek). I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know if love or appreciation for the original is in any way impacting your ability to enjoy this show.
I'm a Star Trek fan, and I like this show so far ;)

I actually didn't have a problem with Alara freaking out about being left in command. To me, that reaction actually seems pretty realistic. A lot of dialogue on the show seems more organic to me than a lot of dialogue on ST, it just sounds more like how people would actually talk to each other. Sure, some of it is cheesy and/or not well-delivered, but hopefully it'll get better as the show finds it footing. It does still feel occasionally like Seth McFarlane woke up one morning and said, "I have lots of money and I want to cosplay a starship captain, so I'll just make a show out of it and see what happens" :)

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:06 pm

The weakest parts of the show for me so far have been often out-of-place (and not particularly good) humor and Seth McFarlane's acting. I guess since he created and is writing the show, he can do what he wants, but I can't help but think the show would be much better with someone else as the captain.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hentzau » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:27 pm

I had this nagging sensation that I had seen The Orville somewhere before, and I finally figured it out. It was 1983, in the Corbin/Olson conference rooms at Western Illinois university, when I ran two separate Star Trek RPG games, one Federation, one Klingon. It made little sense, it had totally inappropriate humor, it had moments of drama, and it was a hell of a lot of fun.

So yeah. The Orville is like a big Star Trek LARP.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Jeff V » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:18 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Of course, yes. My (admittedly small) sample here suggests Star Trek fans don't like this show.
While I've never donned pointy ears and gone to geek orgies (I think that's what Trekkie cons prefer to be called), I have seen all of the movies and all of the episodes of all of the shows -- many more than once. It's not that I don't like this show, I'll watch it again this week; but that it seems that with a little more effort it could be so much better. If it doesn't improve, viewership is going to melt away and then we'll be mourning the loss of what could have been.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Kraken » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:16 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:The weakest parts of the show for me so far have been often out-of-place (and not particularly good) humor and Seth McFarlane's acting. I guess since he created and is writing the show, he can do what he wants, but I can't help but think the show would be much better with someone else as the captain.
+ a lot. He's just too much of a class clown to take seriously, and his ever-smirking face is as punchable as Martin Shkreli's.

Maybe he'll eventually win me over with this show. I'm giving him the chance, anyway.
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Smoove_B wrote: Of course, yes. My (admittedly small) sample here suggests Star Trek fans don't like this show.
While I've never donned pointy ears and gone to geek orgies (I think that's what Trekkie cons prefer to be called), I have seen all of the movies and all of the episodes of all of the shows -- many more than once. It's not that I don't like this show, I'll watch it again this week; but that it seems that with a little more effort it could be so much better. If it doesn't improve, viewership is going to melt away and then we'll be mourning the loss of what could have been.
It should benefit from a renewed interest in ST thanks to the actual new ST show that nobody will pay to watch. Sort of a poor man's ST, if you will. They can profit from that if they don't throw the opportunity away with excessive goofiness.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Rip » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:09 pm

hepcat wrote:So technologically advanced that the ship sized version of draping a trenchcoat around two people to make them look taller gets them through their planetary defenses?

In any case, they seemed fine with the 1980's robot character walking around their planet with another species, and they were making no attempt to hide the fact that they routinely kidnapped and jailed innocent beings from all across the universe, so I find it hard to believe no one knew this was happening. I highly doubt a thousand worlds would just collectively shrug their shoulders and exclaim, "What can you do? They like enslaving our people".
It is actually directly inline with the way we react to such things, our outrage over atrocities is inversely proportional to the committing parties ability to smite us.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:45 pm

I would agree if:

1) They didn't go out of their way to mention that 1980's robot character's race was equally advanced...and the 20 dollar Cylons apparently are, if not friendly, at least working with The Union in some capacity.
2) They were so advanced they wouldn't be bothered by hundreds of other worlds wanting to take a chunk out of their asses for kidnapping and jailing their citizens. But since they had trouble understanding that a ship that threw up a hologram disguise to fool them while apparently within visual range of their damn planet was...in fact...a ship that threw up a hologram disguise to fool them, I find it highly unlikely we're looking at Q's people.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Daehawk » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:13 pm

Maybe they are like the Asgard race from Stargate .As Thor said the humans had weapons that hurled lead with explosive powder and they could never think of that.

Wait here that is....so maybe those guys are like that. Stuff that seems clear or easy is beyond their advanced ability to render.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Chrisoc13 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:23 pm

I'm a big star trek fan and so far I have enjoyed the Orville quite a bit.

Star trek has a ton of its own plot holes, some gaping. I just roll with them just like with the Orville.

I still like star trek a lot more, but I'm enjoying this show.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Zarathud » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:52 pm

hepcat wrote:I was more bothered by the plot point that a civilization that enslaved civilians from what appeared to be hundreds, or even thousands of worlds would be allowed to continue doing so unchecked.
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hepcat
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:21 pm

Chrisoc13 wrote:I'm a big star trek fan and so far I have enjoyed the Orville quite a bit.

Star trek has a ton of its own plot holes, some gaping. I just roll with them just like with the Orville.

I still like star trek a lot more, but I'm enjoying this show.
The plot hole was just an aside. I wouldn't really care if the writing was solid. I'm hoping they find their voice though. Decide to embrace either of the genres they're flirting with each week, or figure out a way to meld the two successfully.
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Chrisoc13 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:44 am

hepcat wrote:
Chrisoc13 wrote:I'm a big star trek fan and so far I have enjoyed the Orville quite a bit.

Star trek has a ton of its own plot holes, some gaping. I just roll with them just like with the Orville.

I still like star trek a lot more, but I'm enjoying this show.
The plot hole was just an aside. I wouldn't really care if the writing was solid. I'm hoping they find their voice though. Decide to embrace either of the genres they're flirting with each week, or figure out a way to meld the two successfully.
I see that. I like it but it does seem incongruent at times. I can understand that viewpoint. There are times I want it to be funnier and times I want it to be more serious. Tricky road they are attempting to navigate.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Rumpy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:40 pm

Just watched the pilot and liked it a lot. I don't normally like Seth Marfarlane's brand of humour, but I think it's done pretty well here. For me, I think why it precisely works is because everyone is expecting a serious type of series with Trek in general. They still go with a serious tone at times, but slip in some unexpected jokes. In the vein of Galaxy Quest, I think it works. It may not be perfect, and I think in some areas it needs a lot of work. I've watched a ton of Trek and I feel like I'm ready to just laugh at it and with it and so far The Orville is giving me that out where I don't need to take "Trek" seriously.

That said, I'll still check out Discovery (This Sunday, I believe).
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Jeff V » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:10 pm

I thought tonight was a good episode. Like in TNG especially, the outcome wasn't what you'd expect it to be. I still think the writing could have been improved (especially early setting up the plot for the episode) but they definitely made an effort to tone down the comedy for a serious issue.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:51 am

If that wasn't the most Star Trekiest episode yet, I don't know what to say. Way more serious than I was expecting, that's for sure.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by MonkeyFinger » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:14 am

Smoove_B wrote:If that wasn't the most Star Trekiest episode yet, I don't know what to say. Way more serious than I was expecting, that's for sure.
+1... minus the couple of lame jokes, that is. :P
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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by wonderpug » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:19 am

I've taken to calling it "Star Trek with dick jokes".

I've enjoyed these first few episodes far more than I expected to. I'm really curious to see how I like Discovery -- I suspect that The Orville might end up being more Star Trekky for me than the new Star Trek.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Kraken » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:35 pm

The humor worked better in this episode, or maybe I'm just starting to accept it (leaving aside the silly dick joke in the opening scene). I chuckled a couple of times at the Rudolph scene and references. Tackling contemporary social issues is pure Roddenberry, and I liked that they didn't go for the obvious ending. I am beginning to like this show.

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Daehawk » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:40 pm

Watched the second ep. They're going to have to start writing smarter. I find myself a step ahead of them as they act it out. I already know what will happen and what they should be doing instead of what they do do.

That ending left me a little "HUuUH!?

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Re: [tv] The Orville .......Seth MacFarlane

Post by Redfive » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:12 am

Well, I missed it because I forgot it moved to Thursday.

I was watching it on Sunday because I was mildly interested and it was after football--I'll likely never remember to watch it now.

I could DVR but we (my wife mostly) watch all of our TV in the bedroom and I just never get around to watching anything I DVR.
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