Buying a home with a septic system?

[DD*]

Looks like a I just sold my house, so I'm now in the shopping business. A large number of neighborhoods in my price range use septic systems instead of city sewer (most have city water though - kind of weird).

I know only what I've learned from the interwebs, so if anyone has lived with a septic system I'd be interested to hear your experiences as far as day-to-day living, cost, maintenance, etc.

Much obliged!

[Smoove_B]

What if you're someone that's just licensed to review and approve designs of septic systems? Is that good enough?

I can't speak exactly to what the laws are in your state and they'll likely vary a bit from what happens here in NJ. I also don't know what exactly you mean when you say "septic system", as that definition can also vary by state. When I say it, it means (1) a septic tank (2) the distribution box and (3) leach field or trenches. I can offer some quick points to note that generally will apply no matter what.

(1) All septic systems will fail; it's just a matter of time. The typical life of an average system is around 20 years, if they're used as designed. If they aren't maintained and/or see use beyond design capability, that life can be shortened dramatically.
(2) Maintenance will also vary by state (in terms of what is legally required vs what is recommended). The current recommendations in NJ encourage homeowners to have their systems pumped every 3-5 years. Based on use and age, it's recommended that you likely stick to the 3 year end instead of the 5 year.

What I will recommend without hesitation is to get someone that is licensed (might be an engineer, might be a home inspector, might be a septic inspector) to come out and evaluate the system. DO NOT let them load the system and see what happens. If they tell you that's their plan, get someone else. You want someone to come out and inspect the tank (after it's been pumped) and ideally send a camera down into the D-box and laterals. Failing that, they can core into the field and evaluate the health of the bed.

In terms of ownership, you should get information on what you shouldn't be putting down your drains. I can forward you a link to that information if you haven't already seen it. You don't need to put additives (like RidX) inside, but if your system has a filter that might need changing. If it has a pump or grinder, you should be made aware of how that operates and what the float alarm sounds like.

The more information you provide to me, the more I can help. I'd be happy to do so and you can send me a PM if you'd rather not share with OO the specifics.

I'm currently living in a house with a 30 year old septic. It was severely under-utilized for about 15 years and the inspector I hired said it almost looked brand new (that was 10 years ago). While it has more use now than it did when we purchased the home, it's still under-utilized and I pump it every 36 months. If it fails and time soon (and I need to install a new one) I will likely napalm the property from orbit.

[Z-Corn]

If it fails and time soon (and I need to install a new one) I will likely napalm the property from orbit.

You could build the driveway of your dreams then!

[Smoove_B]

Always a silver lining. That attitude will take you far in life.

[Zenn7]

Guess I'd have no idea how utilized my septic tank is. I have well and septic. Been her since 2003. Had it pumped a couple times in the first few years. Previous owners had a drain field issue and had to have it redone around 2000. The second time I had it pumped, he told me it didn't really need it (but at that point, he was there, had the septic tank opened, and I was paying either way, so he said I might as well now). Had to redo plumbing under the house (had galvanized steel, have plastic/PVC now). There were some issues with the plumping (including some unusual choices like the sink drain pipe just loosely sitting into the drain to the septic, and the air exhaust didn't quite reach the vertical exhaust pipe, so they just duck-taped them together to cover the gap...).

That's been close to 10 years, no issues since then. Previous owners recommended Rid-X (don't remember to use it monthly but 6-9 times/year). Septic guy said do not flush even the "flushable wipes" down the drain. Use a loose toilet paper like Angel Soft (not a heavy/think toilet paper - think Northern and Charmin are thicker).

Sincerely hoping Smooth is way off on the 20 year life span though (be looking at 3 or so more years... ).

Smooth - out of curiosity, Rid X supposedly helps replace the bacteria that degrades the crap that goes in there - that doesn't really work?

[Isgrimnur]

Septic system additives

Most chemical additives, which clearly harm septic systems and the environment, are no longer being marketed. Biological additives are mostly benign, but unnecessary, "re-branded potions sold under private labels," according to septic system engineer Sanford Mersky.

Some homeowners worry that medicines they take or cleaning solutions used in the house can kill or harm the necessary bacteria in their tanks. Hause recommends that whenever there is a perceived problem in a septic system, homeowners should have it evaluated by a septic professional, and she says, the local health department is the best place to start looking for resources.

[Smoove_B]

Guess I'd have no idea how utilized my septic tank is.

It all comes down to how it was designed. Here in NJ they're designed based on the number of bedrooms with the assumption that bedrooms equals a likely number of occupants. The laws were changed here in the late 1980s to update sizes in recognition that the older codes weren't quite correct so a system that would be approved for use in a house in 2017 isn't the same as a system that would have been approved in 1987.

Sincerely hoping Smooth is way off on the 20 year life span though (be looking at 3 or so more years...

It's just an average age. I've seen systems fail after 5 or 7 years and I've seen a system go for 30 years (like mine). There are so many variables which is why not flushing those wipes (like you pointed out), latex paints or kitchen fats/grease can make a huge difference. I think the oldest system I'd ever seen was a 100+ year old cesspit. For the last 30 years of its life it was being used by a little old lady, but it was working at getting rid of household waste. Wasn't treating it in any way and I'm not sure I'd be drinking well water in that area, but all her plumbing worked fine.

Rid X supposedly helps replace the bacteria that degrades the crap that goes in there - that doesn't really work?

That's the sell, yes. And many septic pumpers will charge you $10 or $20 to add a box to the tank after they pump it out and tell you it will help break everything down. I'm not aware of any peer-reviewed study that demonstrates actual benefits for using something like RidX in a septic tank. Everything needed for the septic to function is included in the materials you supply. I think they get away with selling it because it's not helping or hurting anything.

I also don't use antibacterial soap in my house and try to be sensible with cleaners. I use bleach in the laundry but not by the gallon.

EDIT: Oh sure, I take 10 minutes to write a response and get scoop'd.

[Isgrimnur]

Someone swooped in and cast the kill vote before you could?

[em2nought]

Those so called flushable wipes shouldn't be put down the toilet even if you're "not" on a septic system.

In toilet paper Scott 1000 is cheap and it's supposedly septic safe.

You can supposedly use yeast instead of RidX to help maintain the digestive bacteria in your tank https://farmersalmanac.com/home-garden/ ... naturally/

[dbt1949]

Out here in the boonies of Arkansas we have a septic tank with only one leech line. It's probably illegal but we got away with it because it was an old line from a previous house that we reused when we built our new house here and it was kind of grandfathered in I suppose. It has been inspected (at the time 18 years ago) and passed.
It's never been pumped and is still working fine.
We don't flush TP into it tho. Just throw it away in a covered trash can.

[$iljanus]

What if you're someone that's just licensed to review and approve designs of septic systems? Is that good enough?

Damn, other than get good bandwidth speeds is there anything you can't do?

[Smoove_B]

Out here in the boonies of Arkansas we have a septic tank with only one leech line. It's probably illegal but we got away with it because it was an old line from a previous house that we reused when we built our new house here and it was kind of grandfathered in I suppose. It has been inspected (at the time 18 years ago) and passed.
It's never been pumped and is still working fine.
We don't flush TP into it tho. Just throw it away in a covered trash can.

I won't pretend to know the laws in Arkansas, but in theory it could be possible - if the lateral line was long enough. The disposal field is all about providing surface area, though in my experience I've never seen what you're describing in a modern system.

You abso-freaking-lutely want to get it pumped. With lite use it might be ok to go more than 5 years but there are scum (top) and sludge (bottom) layers that form inside the tank. Over time if you don't pump it out, the sludge layer grows and eventually it will get pushed out into the lateral line and clog up the little holes that were put in the PVC (or whatever it is made out of). When those lines clog, it's goodnight moon for your system. Get 'er pumped!

[Smoove_B]

Damn, other than get good bandwidth speeds is there anything you can't do?

Be within 10' of a live octopus? It's all just part of the job and if the statistics I've seen are still correct, about 25% of all Americans are using a septic - a significant number. That means we still need people to design, approve, install and repair them. What's funny is that I'm likely only useful in the central and northern part of NJ because of the soil. South Jersey has completely different geology so everything I know from working around here would need to change in terms of what to look for (soil types) and what was typical. The laws are all the same, but the type of system and what might work aren't necessarily equal. That's why I really can't even guess what's going on in other states - above and beyond the laws, local soil conditions are likely going to be different and unique. For one of the classes I had to take we spent all day in a soil profile pit (they just dig a giant hole with a backhoe), cataloging all the various layers and examining features that might tell us whether or not it was a good spot for a septic system. Structure, composition, color - it's crazy how much some people know about dirt.

[Paingod]

So we've had our home for almost 8 years now and don't know how long before we bought it the system was pumped. We should probably get it pumped, probably too late and done permanent damage?

[Smoove_B]

It's never too late! Get it pumped now and have the person doing it give you a quick report on what the tank looks like. They might measure the sludge layer for you and let you know how close it was to going out into the field based on depth. Depending on the laws in your state there might be a baffle or filter on the line going out and they can check that too. The pumping shouldn't be more than a few hundred dollars - way cheaper than having to install a new system.

Unfortunately without doing a much more invasive inspection on the field you just don't know how it looks, but failures are usually rather binary in nature -- septics don't "mostly" work. Either it's disposing of water or it's failing and blowing out of the ground somewhere. So if you're not having problems with slow draining water in your house and there's not soft or wet spots in your yard, things are probably still good.

[LordMortis]

My parents never did maintenance on the "septic field" where I grew up. They had that house for over 40 years. Never drained it once. However, I do remember every spring during wet season the back yard around the septic field had a horrid smell.

[Smoove_B]

Maintenance on the field isn't possible, but they should have been pumping out the tank. Maybe they were and you didn't see it? And yes, a soggy field area and smell would be indicative of a failure. Could be that the water table was high in the spring and that flooded the disposal bed. But that means bad design or location as you'd never want that to happen. That's what's so funny about septic systems. Most people I've encountered don't care a bit about them until it backs up into their home. I've seen them literally blowing out of the ground and draining into a neighbors property. But hey, the toilet still flushes so what's the problem?

[LordMortis]

Maintenance on the field isn't possible, but they should have been pumping out the tank. Maybe they were and you didn't see it? And yes, a soggy field area and smell would be indicative of a failure. Could be that the water table was high in the spring and that flooded the disposal bed. But that means bad design or location as you'd never want that to happen. That's what's so funny about septic systems. Most people I've encountered don't care a bit about them until it backs up into their home. I've seen them literally blowing out of the ground and draining into a neighbors property. But hey, the toilet still flushes so what's the problem?

We lived in a clay rich environment. It's not just a soggy field. Our property was about one step away from being declared a temperate "swamp land". Our ground held water after a good rain for days.

[dbt1949]

Fortunately our house is at an angle and the water shed takes the water to my neighbors property.

[Smoove_B]

We lived in a clay rich environment. It's not just a soggy field. Our property was about one step away from being declared a temperate "swamp land". Our ground held water after a good rain for days.

Not an uncommon issue. In NJ they deal with it by approving a "mound" system, which some towns I've worked for have banned because of how ugly they can look.



Random hill in your yard that doesn't fit with the landscape and always has tall grass? Might be part of the septic system.

[Paingod]

Random hill in your yard that doesn't fit with the landscape and always has tall grass? Might be part of the septic system.

We get greener grass, plus the snow melts there first when it warms up. No hill, though. The whole house is on a hill, so the septic system is just on the edge of that.

[Cylus Maxii]

I've had no failures/issues with septic systems in the past (e.g. while growing up). But my experience was in locations where there were no drainage or water table issues (desert states like NM and CO). Nor were there issues with tree roots and so on in the drain field. But, we remained vigilant about what we flushed and even insured that we used septic friendly cleaning supplies. If you have a septic system, you simply can't flush tampons and such and will fill it up quickly if put a ton of junk down the garbage disposal.

I do recall a tank getting pumped maybe 3 times as I grew up - so that would fit the frequencies others have supported.

[Kasey Chang]

I don't own a house, but I have had several instances where my toilet was either slow and outright plugged. It always loosens up after a couple pushes with the plunger, but it was horribly annoying.

I went through the toilet section of Home Depot, Lowe's, and found almost EVERYTHING they have says "Do NOT use in toilet". Honest.

That is, except Rid-X treatment Which I found at Target... $9, but use once a month. (It's on Amazon, 4 months dosage for $15, or 6 month in liquid form for $17) Basically I dumped the pack of powder into the toilet bowl, and flushed. That's it. And I haven't had a blockage for a month.

One of the few things I found surprisingly effective, but then one data point doesn't make it fact. I guess I'll have to keep a few months as "maintenance", just in case...

[stessier]

Calling Smoove!!

We are looking into potentially buying a new house and it would be our first with a septic system. This is a brand new construction in a new development. Should I be having my own inspector check out the system before signing any paperwork?

Above you also mention that all systems fail eventually. Does that mean just replacing equipment, or that the field has to be repositioned or something?

Everything I know about systems I learned from what you wrote above, so please don't assume I know anything.

[Smoove_B]

I'm heading out the door, but I will get you a detailed response in a little bit.

[The Meal]

At my Pop's place, he and I laid the outlying corrugated plastic lines on top of beds of gravel (easy digging, we lived about 3 blocks from Lake Michigan on a land of sand) about 3' down from the surface. That'dve been around '95. He had the field replaced last summer, so he nearly made it 25 years. He was good about getting the tank pumped every three years.

The replacement field was in the same spot as the original. Just needed to retrench and re-lay the outlying lines.

[Trent Steel]

Smoove talking about septic systems is like Gearhead talking about the Gear Wars.

Haven’t heard of the Gear Wars? Oh boy, I envy you.

[Smoove_B]

Literally and Figuratively.

We are looking into potentially buying a new house and it would be our first with a septic system. This is a brand new construction in a new development. Should I be having my own inspector check out the system before signing any paperwork?

That would be unusual in my experience - to have an inspector go over a brand-new (unused) system. However, if I were going to purchase a new home and the system was constructed for it, what I would want is:

(1) A set of "as built" plans from the developer/builder that demonstrate that the engineer involved in the septic system design came out to the site and verified the location of system components as they planned it. What sometimes happens is the engineer comes up with plans and the installer does something different. Not always nefarious, they just see something or make a slight adjustment based on field knowledge. You always want to make sure the engineer approved any changes and signed off on them.

(2) Certifications that were done on the fill used in the disposal area. It would require that someone during the installation process bagged a sample and then sent it off to an independent laboratory to verify the specifications. It's possible no fill material was used and in that case, this wouldn't apply. In my experience here in NJ not having select fill is unusual, but maybe in your state using native soil is acceptable. Even here, I'd still probably want some type of certification by the design engineer that demonstrates they witnessed the installation of the system (as designed) and are signing off that it was done as per their recommendations (no heavy equipment drove over bed, soil was put in lifts, not compacted, etc...)

Above you also mention that all systems fail eventually. Does that mean just replacing equipment, or that the field has to be repositioned or something?

Yes. It sounds a bit Zen, but they always fail. Always. Failures can be caused by any number of things. There were waves of new construction septics that failed within the first five years of being used because the select fill material (described above) was faulty (it all came from one supplier). Early failure like that is rare, but possible. I'd typically expect to see 20-25 years out of a system, depending on use and care. My current system is now 32 years old but for about 12 of those years, it was only being used by one person. It's designed for 5 and now only 3 are using it, so I'm confident it's in good shape. But when we sell this house, if a family of 5 or 6 moves in, they could blow it out of the ground in a year.

So getting back to how failures are addressed, it really all depends on the component that's in question. Really, the system should be three main parts:

(1) Septic Tank
(2) Distribution box
(3) Laterals/Bed

Failure can occur in any one (or more) of those areas. Failure in the first two are generally going to be easier to address. Failure in the third area is where you're going to spend the big money.

Once again "it depends" is the phrase that pays. If the home is situated on large enough property, generally speaking (in my experience) they're going to want to dig a new location for the disposal bed. If they can't, they'll likely propose excavating the existing bed area and enlarging it, then replacing the native soil with that select fill material. If the system failed because the designing engineer didn't account for (or see) the presence of a water table, the new system might be mounded (i.e.coming out of the ground like a constructed hill).

It's possible in a development full of homes that the presence of numerous homes in a previously undisturbed area change how water is moving around under the ground. This might then increase the chances of a failure occurring. By way of example, if there aren't storm sewers and catchment basins, sometimes communities consider using "dry wells" to deal with roof, driveway and street run off. These are just underground concrete tanks that collect, hold, and slowly release water back into the soil. It's a fantastic idea, but the ground can only accommodate so much water at any given time. If it's being overloaded and the community/neighborhood wasn't designed with that in mind, septic systems can absolutely be impacted; I've seen it happen.

I don't know the laws at all in your state, but I'd be happy to answer any additional questions. If your local/county health agency is any good (and some states have really excellent programs) they likely produce educational materials that would cover most of the basics.

Not sure if that makes you feel better or worse, but there you go.

EDIT: Just realizing this video fits my post. I approve this message.

[stessier]

Thanks for all the information! I'm a bit swamped today at work, but I'll definitely have questions after I have time to digest your post.

[Smoove_B]

Digesters are a whole different story!

But seriously, I'm happy to help. It's not often I can use what I know in such detail here. So when the opportunity comes up...

[stessier]

Sorry for not getting back to this sooner. I've been travelling unexpectedly for the last three weeks. Also during that time, we decided to put the idea of purchasing a new home on hold for a year.

I really do appreciate the information, though, and since that development will still likely be our preferred landing spot next year, it will be nice to have a jumping off point for our data gathering then.

[em2nought]

At my Pop's place, he and I laid the outlying corrugated plastic lines on top of beds of gravel (easy digging, we lived about 3 blocks from Lake Michigan on a land of sand) about 3' down from the surface. That'd have been around '95.

About ten years before that me and a buddy dug his pop's septic field, it was quite the hole. lol

Something I've noticed on a current friend's property is that his downspouts were delivering water right on top of the septic field. I've got it in my mind that this is a very very bad idea. We put in corrugated pipe to get the water over and beyond the septic field.

[Smoove_B]

I really do appreciate the information, though, and since that development will still likely be our preferred landing spot next year, it will be nice to have a jumping off point for our data gathering then.

No problem. We're still looking at houses ~4 months later and potential septic issues have been a discussion for 90% of what we've seen, mainly because of the age of the systems and a lack of maintenance.

[GreenvilleSCS]

Spamming is much like a septic system.

[Sudy]

But what if I need a qualified locksmith in my area in the middle of the night?

[hepcat]

This is still a shitty thread.

[Jeff V]

This is still a shitty thread.

Moreso that it was started by a late member of our community.

[hepcat]

My attempt at tying septic to a related vulgarity for the sake of humor is in no way related to the tragic loss of a fellow member.

[Lassr]

This is still a shitty thread.

Moreso that it was started by a late member of our community.

<sigh> sometimes I think we should have a thread commemorating the ones we've lost so they will not be forgotten. We all are getting old. Hell DBT will probably be the last survivor posting to himself at the age of 100 and something.

[Smoove_B]

But seriously, I'm happy to help. It's not often I can use what I know in such detail here. So when the opportunity comes up...

A year later, and I'd be posting a lot more stuff I knew about. I'm ok now with sharing what i know; I've had my fill.