[Movie] Black Panther

[hentzau]

I wish they would have made a version of Wakanda in Animal Kingdom at Disney World, rather than Pandora.

Absolutely this!!!

[YellowKing]

I agree on Wakanda vs Avatar at Animal Kingdom, but just as an aside, Disney is playing the long game. Everyone thinks now that Avatar is a dead IP, but before too long you won't be able to escape it. James Cameron is going to put those sequels out come hell or high water, and you won't be able to throw a rock and not hit a Navi by the time Disney's marketing team is finished.

[coopasonic]

Saw it yesterday and loved it. It's a lot more serious than a lot of the other Marvel movies, but it was very good.

[hentzau]

Saw it with my kids last night (in a Dolby Cinema theater) and thought it was absolutely outstanding. Would really like to see it a second time before it leaves the theater.

And, I'll throw this in spoiler tags:

Spoiler:

Where did Howard Stark get the vibranium that he used to make Cap's shield? It sounded like the only vibranium that ever left Wakanda was the stuff that Klaue stole. I guess they could have found some in an artifact like the one that Klaue stole...

[msteelers]

Spoiler:

Where did Howard Stark get the vibranium that he used to make Cap's shield? It sounded like the only vibranium that ever left Wakanda was the stuff that Klaue stole. I guess they could have found some in an artifact like the one that Klaue stole...

I had the same question, and forgot to ask it.

Spoiler:

I hope they answer that at some point. Maybe they did on Agent Carter. I never saw season 2. It certainly seems like Klaue is the only one to get vibranium out of Wakanda, which we know is not true. I’ll have to go back and look at Black Panthers scenes in Civil War to see if anything is mentioned.

[Isgrimnur]

Spoiler:

Stark: "No, no, that's just a prototype."
Cap: "What's it made of?"
Stark: "Vibranium. It's stronger than steel and a third of the weight. It's completely vibration absorbent."
Cap: "How come it's not standard issue?"
Stark: "That's the rarest metal on Earth. What you're holding there, that's all we've got."

[NickAragua]

Spoiler:

In fact, it's so much stronger than steel that it's able to deflect bullets, giant lasers and god hammer slams.

But yeah, I saw this movie last week. I enjoyed it, definitely a solid entry into the MCU. Glad it's doing well at the box office, too.

As some others here, I'm getting a little burnt out on the whole thing though. I'm actually mildly concerned about the Infinity War "all star" movie coming up. We'll have like fifty different main characters to keep track of and no way all of them get enough screen time for meaningful presence.

[msteelers]

Spoiler:

Stark: "No, no, that's just a prototype."
Cap: "What's it made of?"
Stark: "Vibranium. It's stronger than steel and a third of the weight. It's completely vibration absorbent."
Cap: "How come it's not standard issue?"
Stark: "That's the rarest metal on Earth. What you're holding there, that's all we've got."

Thanks. I must have made assumptions about where the vibranium came from based on the comics.

[Freyland]

As some others here, I'm getting a little burnt out on the whole thing though. I'm actually mildly concerned about the Infinity War "all star" movie coming up. We'll have like fifty different main characters to keep track of and no way all of them get enough screen time for meaningful presence.

How is this different from a comic series covering the same thing? All that I really am asking from these movies is a cinematic comic book experience, and having good writing has been delicious icing on that cake. I would be happy if they continued on the very path they are on, and it sounds like Ragnarok and Black Panther make that path more of a yellow brick road.

[NickAragua]

As some others here, I'm getting a little burnt out on the whole thing though. I'm actually mildly concerned about the Infinity War "all star" movie coming up. We'll have like fifty different main characters to keep track of and no way all of them get enough screen time for meaningful presence.

How is this different from a comic series covering the same thing? All that I really am asking from these movies is a cinematic comic book experience, and having good writing has been delicious icing on that cake. I would be happy if they continued on the very path they are on, and it sounds like Ragnarok and Black Panther make that path more of a yellow brick road.

It's not different at all. Which is basically my problem. Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen an MCU movie I didn't like yet. But there's a reason I don't collect comic books. If I hadn't "gotten in on the ground floor", so to speak, for half of these movies, I'd have no idea what's going on or why all these people are here.

[msteelers]

I feel like a lot of that is going to change after Avengers 4.

And while it might seem like having to see all of the MCU movies to know what is going on might be a problem, these movies continue to print money.

[NickAragua]

And while it might seem like having to see all of the MCU movies to know what is going on might be a problem, these movies continue to print money.

I'm not really concerned about the well-being of the franchise, I'm concerned about my diminishing ability to keep up with it as my brain starts decaying over time.

[msteelers]

And while it might seem like having to see all of the MCU movies to know what is going on might be a problem, these movies continue to print money.

I'm not really concerned about the well-being of the franchise, I'm concerned about my diminishing ability to keep up with it as my brain starts decaying over time.

Disney cares not for your feeble brain!

I am completely stunned that the MCU movies are as popular as they are. Not because they aren’t good. I absolutely love them. It’s because you really have to watch each one to fully understand what’s going on.

They have to know that can’t go on forever. That’s why I think phase 4 and beyond is going to be different. A soft reset of the MCU, where you won’t really need to have seen the previous movies to get on board.

[coopasonic]

I have little to no recollection from one movie to the next and I have next to know knowledge of the source material (I was a always DC guy with a side of spiderman and moon knight... where the hell is moon knight?). I love the movies individually and only remember the vaguest details of what was in even the most recent of the prior movies. I never rewatch movies which helps me not remember stuff. Any way, it is totally possible to enjoy each of these movies (I have seen all but GotG 2, which I own but forget to watch) independently. Perhaps remembering all the details makes them better, but they don't need it to sell tickets. All that stuff msteelers rattled off about the characters changes from movie to movie? All that is way over my head.

[hitbyambulance]

where the hell is moon knight?

i've been asking that same question for nigh on two decades now

[Isgrimnur]

So...

Spoiler:

T'Challa is going to be the last Black Panther? The plant field was burned, and the only one taken from it was used to wake him from the coma and restore his powers. From the sound of it from the caretaker, it's only needed once rather than as a regular top-up, but still.

[hepcat]

That was my impression.

Spoiler:

I believe that was Killmonger's goal. he was to be the last.

I ended up catching a late matinee yesterday on my way home from work. I really enjoyed it. It was a great "Heroes' Journey" story that mirrored today's headlines quite succinctly. Isolationism, refugees, racism...it had them all, but it didn't beat you over the head with them. They were addressed in a fair and thoughtful manner.

Also, T'challa's little sister was great. Her reaction to her brother's sandals in an early scene actually made me laugh. She has an infectious smile.

[Isgrimnur]

Also, T'challa's little sister was great. Her reaction to her brother's sandals in an early scene actually made me laugh. She has an infectious smile.

Letitia Wright as Shuri

[hepcat]

Ah, holy crap...now I remember where I've seen her before! She was in one of my favorite Black Mirror episodes, Black Museum! She was damn great in that, switching between accents like she was born to all of them.

[gameoverman]

Spoiler:

I totally forgot that the General was married to the leader of the Blue Tribe, right up until the rhino licked her. I wish they had more of their story sprinkled throughout, so that the scenes where they face off would have been more powerful. More scenes could have also helped explain why blue leader was so loyal to Killmonger. Yes, he killed Klaw. But he completely turned his back on T’Challa after he failed to capture him once? I didn’t buy it.

Overall, another worthy entry into the MCU. I understand it shattered expectations at the box office, which is fantastic. This movie deserves a lot of praise.

The way I understood the situation was that the political situation was tense to begin with, even with the previous king.

Spoiler:

Then that king is killed, which ups the tension. These leaders are not all on the same page. It's like Game of Thrones, where there is no consensus on who is leader. That's why there was real tension during BP's first challenge. He didn't have unequivocal support. So then later he gives his word to return with the Klaue, which he fails to do. No excuses are possible here, that prisoner was needed to shore up support and he knew it. Then when Killmonger delivers the goods he of course earns the credibility and support Black Panther would have gotten had he succeeded. So no one turned their back on him, he didn't fulfill his part of the deal as king.

[msteelers]

Spoiler:

I totally forgot that the General was married to the leader of the Blue Tribe, right up until the rhino licked her. I wish they had more of their story sprinkled throughout, so that the scenes where they face off would have been more powerful. More scenes could have also helped explain why blue leader was so loyal to Killmonger. Yes, he killed Klaw. But he completely turned his back on T’Challa after he failed to capture him once? I didn’t buy it.

Overall, another worthy entry into the MCU. I understand it shattered expectations at the box office, which is fantastic. This movie deserves a lot of praise.

The way I understood the situation was that the political situation was tense to begin with, even with the previous king.

Spoiler:

Then that king is killed, which ups the tension. These leaders are not all on the same page. It's like Game of Thrones, where there is no consensus on who is leader. That's why there was real tension during BP's first challenge. He didn't have unequivocal support. So then later he gives his word to return with the Klaue, which he fails to do. No excuses are possible here, that prisoner was needed to shore up support and he knew it. Then when Killmonger delivers the goods he of course earns the credibility and support Black Panther would have gotten had he succeeded. So no one turned their back on him, he didn't fulfill his part of the deal as king.

I didn't see things like that.

Spoiler:

I don't think there was any real tension during BP's first challenge. None of the other tribes in attendance challenge him, and it's all one big happy love fest. Hence the Shuri, "let's get this over with" joke. It's not until the mountain tribe comes in that we get any tension in that scene. Blue Leader is seen as a close friend and ally.

My memory of specifics is vague, but there's a conversation between Blue Leader and T'Challa where Blue Leader said he always faulted T'Chaka for not spending more resources to go after Klaue. After T'Challa decides to go after him (against the wishes of some of his council), Blue Leader says he knew T'Challa would be different.

I got the sense that the two were very close friends. It just seemed like Black Panther getting close but losing Klaue shouldn't have been enough to alienate Blue Leader. Especially when T'Challa knew that Killmonger was the one who let Klaue get away in the first place. I don't really understand why that fact wasn't announced at any point to the council.

[gameoverman]

I didn't see things like that.

Spoiler:

I don't think there was any real tension during BP's first challenge. None of the other tribes in attendance challenge him, and it's all one big happy love fest. Hence the Shuri, "let's get this over with" joke. It's not until the mountain tribe comes in that we get any tension in that scene. Blue Leader is seen as a close friend and ally.

My memory of specifics is vague, but there's a conversation between Blue Leader and T'Challa where Blue Leader said he always faulted T'Chaka for not spending more resources to go after Klaue. After T'Challa decides to go after him (against the wishes of some of his council), Blue Leader says he knew T'Challa would be different.

I got the sense that the two were very close friends. It just seemed like Black Panther getting close but losing Klaue shouldn't have been enough to alienate Blue Leader. Especially when T'Challa knew that Killmonger was the one who let Klaue get away in the first place. I don't really understand why that fact wasn't announced at any point to the council.

I thought her joke was precisely timed to break the tension. You can't break the tension if it's not there.

Spoiler:

It wasn't a "everyone is happy to have him king, so why are we doing this?" thing, It was more like "whew, we got past the challenge portion, we're home free" reaction. Also, the expressions on the faces of the ones declaring 'no challenge' weren't exactly the faces of people who found the idea of challenging him unthinkable. They looked to me like the faces of people who might have challenged if they thought they could win. It was kind of a "Meh, not this time" look. The tension was from the possibility one of them would decide a win was possible, and in fact one of them did eventually(the mountain tribe).

If, in The Godfather, Vito Corleone promised someone something then failed to deliver, does he get more chances? No, the respect comes from delivering no matter what. If it takes lopping a horse's head off, then that's what he's gonna do. He doesn't get more chances to fail. I think Black Panther, the guy who is king AND has powers AND wears the suit, faced that same kind of situation. He made a promise and it's a tremendous loss of respect and loss of face to fail to deliver on it.

As to why he didn't share information, all that occurs to me is that there wouldn't be any reason before Killmonger shows up. Especially since the question of the ring needed to be settled, so he wasn't going to talk about that earlier. Then when Killmonger does show up, it's too late. If he brings it up then, everyone will think he's just making that up. "Why didn't you tell us before?" would be the question. Then that leads to him having to admit he's concealing things from people, not a good move when your support is not solid to begin with.

[msteelers]

I thought her joke was precisely timed to break the tension. You can't break the tension if it's not there.

Spoiler:

The tension came from her making it sound like she was going to challenge her brother.

It's entirely possible I completely misread the scene. I've only seen the movie once. I'll keep an open mind when I watch it again once it comes out on Blu Ray.

[gameoverman]

I thought her joke was precisely timed to break the tension. You can't break the tension if it's not there.

Spoiler:

The tension came from her making it sound like she was going to challenge her brother.

It's entirely possible I completely misread the scene. I've only seen the movie once. I'll keep an open mind when I watch it again once it comes out on Blu Ray.

Haha, seriously?!? That would have been...interesting. I thought it was a 'WTF?' moment for those other characters, which is why it was funny for her to do that.

[Grifman]

Another smash for Marvel, great and sympathetic villain. I saw it early this evening and all of the evening shows looking to be sold out or selling out. Theater was packed and was easily 80% African-American. It's killing the box office, right now it's beating even the Avengers in the US which is amazing. Really enjoyed it.

[Punisher]

I have to agree that Killmonger was an awesome villain and not your typical bad for the sake of being bad guy.

Spoiler:

His 1st scene in the throne room when he kept asking someone to ask who he is gave me chills.. Definitely one of my favorite scenes (and the first scene where I saw the tattoo thing.. Prior to that I thought the lip thing was just some weird ceremony thing..
I was actually disappointed that they killed him off...

I thought the comedy was very well placed for the most part and Shuri was a great fun character.

[stimpy]

Saw it today.
Good movie. Nowhere near great.
I'd rank it pretty mediocre on the Marvel Movie Scale.
Oh...and worst. end. credits. ever.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, color me in the underwhelmed crowd too. Not bad, just not up to the hype.

[Kurth]

Saw it with the family tonight. Everyone loved it, including my wife, who is NOT into action movies and especially not into superhero movies.

Also, showings were selling out an hour and a half before showtime. Crazy!

[stessier]

Just saw it. I really liked it. It was different in a good way. I really loved the sister... Her comedic timing was great.

[Holman]

Just got back from seeing it, and we all thought it was great!

I probably suffer from a little Marvel burnout too, but this one was saved by including charged political questions handled better than similar action movies would try to do. A sympathetic villain is so much more interesting. The leads were strong across the board, and in fact I can't think of a single moment that seemed truly boring or false.

Cheap shot department: how could they possibly have given Serkis and Freeman two scenes together without a single Tolkien reference? Did I miss something?

[Ænima]

Just got back from seeing it, and we all thought it was great!

I probably suffer from a little Marvel burnout too, but this one was saved by including charged political questions handled better than similar action movies would try to do. A sympathetic villain is so much more interesting. The leads were strong across the board, and in fact I can't think of a single moment that seemed truly boring or false.

Cheap shot department: how could they possibly have given Serkis and Freeman two scenes together without a single Tolkien reference? Did I miss something?

I think the reference was built in. As the only two white guys in the movie, that makes them the “Tolkien white guys”.

[hepcat]

[AWS260]

BP trivia: the Merchant Tribe elder is played by Dorothy Steel of Atlanta, who is 91 years old. She started acting three years ago. Black Panther is her first feature film.

[Hyena]

Put me in the "impressed" camp, as well. My favorite part of the movie hands down is Killmonger. Perfect blend of circumstances to ask the question of "Nature vs. Nurture";

Spoiler:

would he have grown up to be that way was had his father not been killed? His dad was already on the path of betrayal by stealing the ore,
but would his son fall in line with that lifestyle, too?

Also, how much of his desire to rule is out of personal gain vs. truly wanting to raise his people to be the rulers of the world? Noble goal through violent upheaval, or personal vendetta disguised as righteous fury? In a vacuum, racking up kills in the hundreds and ritual scarification suggests a psychosis, but is presented in a way that reflects an understanding and pride in his cultural. He talks a good game about wanting to raise his people up and follows their rules and traditions (for the most part), but is driven by an internal rage that is all-consuming, to the very end.

I also thought they did a great job with a subtle handling of the obvious elephant in the room when he said, “Bury me in the ocean with my ancestors who jumped from the ships, because they knew death was better than bondage.” They very easily could have hammered that point home, but they did so in an unexpected way with that quote.

Overall, I really enjoyed it and eventually will be adding it to my growing MCU bluray collection.

[hepcat]

Put me in the "impressed" camp, as well. My favorite part of the movie hands down is Killmonger. Perfect blend of circumstances to ask the question of "Nature vs. Nurture";

Spoiler:

would he have grown up to be that way was had his father not been killed? His dad was already on the path of betrayal by stealing the ore,
but would his son fall in line with that lifestyle, too?

On Killmonger

Spoiler:

Don't forget that his father didn't steal the vibranium for personal gains. At least according to him. He really believed that he was going to use the money and the materials to support a change in the world. And he did eventually get his way when T'Challa decided to bring Wakanda onto the world stage and use its resources to help others less fortunate than themselves...although in a decidedly peaceful manner. Other than Klaue (god I hate that spelling...although I know in the later comics they spelled his real last name that way. Still, I prefer Klaw, damn it! ), the villains in this film were more like revolutionaries who felt they were being driven to do what they did for the greater good.

[Hyena]

Put me in the "impressed" camp, as well. My favorite part of the movie hands down is Killmonger. Perfect blend of circumstances to ask the question of "Nature vs. Nurture";

Spoiler:

would he have grown up to be that way was had his father not been killed? His dad was already on the path of betrayal by stealing the ore,
but would his son fall in line with that lifestyle, too?

On Killmonger

Spoiler:

Don't forget that his father didn't steal the vibranium for personal gains. At least according to him. He really believed that he was going to use the money and the materials to support a change in the world. And he did eventually get his way when T'Challa decided to bring Wakanda onto the world stage and use its resources to help others less fortunate than themselves...although in a decidedly peaceful manner. Other than Klaue (god I hate that spelling...although I know in the later comics they spelled his real last name that way. Still, I prefer Klaw, damn it! ), the villains in this film were more like revolutionaries who felt they were being driven to do what they did for the greater good.

I completely get that, but correct me if I'm wrong, and I may very well be,

Spoiler:

wasn't he setting up another robbery or other illegal enterprise in the beginning of the movie? He was setting up a getaway driver, and had guns and a bunch of other things that he had to hide when the Papa Panther arrived. I have a hard time seeing him as anything other than an opportunistic criminal after that. Or was that part of his cover for being in the US?

As an aside, the actor that played the younger version of Zuri, Forrest Whitaker's character, was SPOT ON in terms of appearance and mannerisms. I looked him up, and his name is Denzel Whitaker. I thought "Did they get his son to play his father's character??" but it turns out there is no relation, just a freakish resemblance and acting job.

[hepcat]

I got the impression

Spoiler:

That Killmonger's father was doing all that in order to achieve his goal of helping out the black community that he'd come to know and love. I believe Killmonger's mother was from the United States, wasn't she? If so, that might be why he went native, so to speak. He was also originally a spy who was sent to America to keep tabs on thefts and other Wakandan national interests. So I'm guessing he made some unsavory friends in low places that he had to work with. His acting like a criminal may have just been a front to keep him alive. He probably also kept that front up when working with Forest Whitaker's younger self, I imagine. At least before he realized he was a fellow Wakandan spy. Although his reaction to finding that out was decidedly extreme.

But I'm not entirely sure about any of this either. It's all just my interpretation of Killmonger's father, of course. Still, it's nice to see a superhero film and then spend time trying to figure out the villain for once.

[Punisher]

Put me in the "impressed" camp, as well. My favorite part of the movie hands down is Killmonger. Perfect blend of circumstances to ask the question of "Nature vs. Nurture";

Spoiler:

would he have grown up to be that way was had his father not been killed? His dad was already on the path of betrayal by stealing the ore,
but would his son fall in line with that lifestyle, too?

On Killmonger

Spoiler:

Don't forget that his father didn't steal the vibranium for personal gains. At least according to him. He really believed that he was going to use the money and the materials to support a change in the world. And he did eventually get his way when T'Challa decided to bring Wakanda onto the world stage and use its resources to help others less fortunate than themselves...although in a decidedly peaceful manner. Other than Klaue (god I hate that spelling...although I know in the later comics they spelled his real last name that way. Still, I prefer Klaw, damn it! ), the villains in this film were more like revolutionaries who felt they were being driven to do what they did for the greater good.

I completely get that, but correct me if I'm wrong, and I may very well be,

Spoiler:

wasn't he setting up another robbery or other illegal enterprise in the beginning of the movie? He was setting up a getaway driver, and had guns and a bunch of other things that he had to hide when the Papa Panther arrived. I have a hard time seeing him as anything other than an opportunistic criminal after that. Or was that part of his cover for being in the US?

As an aside, the actor that played the younger version of Zuri, Forrest Whitaker's character, was SPOT ON in terms of appearance and mannerisms. I looked him up, and his name is Denzel Whitaker. I thought "Did they get his son to play his father's character??" but it turns out there is no relation, just a freakish resemblance and acting job.

Spoiler:

IIRC, the weapons were for him to arm his people. sounded like he wanted to perform a coup in the US (Not Wakanda)

[Hyena]

Put me in the "impressed" camp, as well. My favorite part of the movie hands down is Killmonger. Perfect blend of circumstances to ask the question of "Nature vs. Nurture";

Spoiler:

would he have grown up to be that way was had his father not been killed? His dad was already on the path of betrayal by stealing the ore,
but would his son fall in line with that lifestyle, too?

On Killmonger

Spoiler:

Don't forget that his father didn't steal the vibranium for personal gains. At least according to him. He really believed that he was going to use the money and the materials to support a change in the world. And he did eventually get his way when T'Challa decided to bring Wakanda onto the world stage and use its resources to help others less fortunate than themselves...although in a decidedly peaceful manner. Other than Klaue (god I hate that spelling...although I know in the later comics they spelled his real last name that way. Still, I prefer Klaw, damn it! ), the villains in this film were more like revolutionaries who felt they were being driven to do what they did for the greater good.

I completely get that, but correct me if I'm wrong, and I may very well be,

Spoiler:

wasn't he setting up another robbery or other illegal enterprise in the beginning of the movie? He was setting up a getaway driver, and had guns and a bunch of other things that he had to hide when the Papa Panther arrived. I have a hard time seeing him as anything other than an opportunistic criminal after that. Or was that part of his cover for being in the US?

As an aside, the actor that played the younger version of Zuri, Forrest Whitaker's character, was SPOT ON in terms of appearance and mannerisms. I looked him up, and his name is Denzel Whitaker. I thought "Did they get his son to play his father's character??" but it turns out there is no relation, just a freakish resemblance and acting job.

Spoiler:

IIRC, the weapons were for him to arm his people. sounded like he wanted to perform a coup in the US (Not Wakanda)

Yeah, I don't remember exactly what was being organized there, so I'll go with what you said. Guess I'll just have to go watch it again soon!