NCAA Football 2017 season

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:26 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:29 pmSure it's childish, but it's also poking at a system that effectively locks them out of contention for a CoFoPo championship before the season even starts. This is the best they're ever going to get, so they might as well have some fun with it, even if it means they have to suffer the shame of being called childish on the internet.
I certainly think they should celebrate *something*. What locks them out of contention?

That they aren't from a power five conference. But I suspect you already knew that and will respond with a response you had pre prepared.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:23 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:29 pmSure it's childish, but it's also poking at a system that effectively locks them out of contention for a CoFoPo championship before the season even starts. This is the best they're ever going to get, so they might as well have some fun with it, even if it means they have to suffer the shame of being called childish on the internet.
I certainly think they should celebrate *something*. What locks them out of contention?

It's nearly impossible for a G5 school (i.e., one not in a Power 5 conference) to end up in the top four due to strength of schedule issues. They have to play mostly against teams in their own conference, which makes it harder to show a strength of schedule comparable to the P5 schools.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pm

You know what I just realized? I didn't loose any NCAA football game this year. I am the national champion! I want endorsements!

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:35 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pm You know what I just realized? I didn't loose any NCAA football game this year. I am the national champion! I want endorsements!

Endorsements are an NCAA violation. Your program is suspended from bowl participation this year, and you lose 10 scholarships.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:37 pm

dammit

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:37 pm

Chrisoc13 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:26 pm That they aren't from a power five conference. But I suspect you already knew that and will respond with a response you had pre prepared.

Please see earlier post about being a *very* casual college football fan.

I don't have a prepared response, nor did I know that. Can I assume that the following statement from wikipedia is more or less accurate?

Wiki wrote:Conference champions from the Power Five are not guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, and conference champions from the Group of Five are not eligible to appear in the playoff. Each conference champion from the Power Five and the highest-ranked Group of Five conference champion is guaranteed a spot in either the playoff or one of the four other most prestigious bowl games.[8] Every year, a non-Power Five team is guaranteed one bid to the New Year's Six bowls, however, so far no additional bids beyond that one have ever been granted. Nonetheless, they have notched an overall record of 3-1 in this time, making the superiority of the Power Five schools, assumed in this system, questionable.

Is that bolded part true? G5 confererence champions are not eligible to appear in the playoff? The next sentence seems to challenge that (possibly, depending on how you parse "or").

What I was trying to discover was whether or not they are actually prevented from competing by rule, or if they are frozen out by selection bias or something like that.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:39 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pmIt's nearly impossible for a G5 school (i.e., one not in a Power 5 conference) to end up in the top four due to strength of schedule issues. They have to play mostly against teams in their own conference, which makes it harder to show a strength of schedule comparable to the P5 schools.

That was sort of my understanding (that they were considered lesser in part at least because their competition was mostly lesser). That's the part that made me not particularly care about their claim based on their undefeatedness.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:41 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:37 pmCan I assume that the following statement from wikipedia is more or less accurate?

Wiki wrote:Conference champions from the Power Five are not guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, and conference champions from the Group of Five are not eligible to appear in the playoff. Each conference champion from the Power Five and the highest-ranked Group of Five conference champion is guaranteed a spot in either the playoff or one of the four other most prestigious bowl games.[8] Every year, a non-Power Five team is guaranteed one bid to the New Year's Six bowls, however, so far no additional bids beyond that one have ever been granted. Nonetheless, they have notched an overall record of 3-1 in this time, making the superiority of the Power Five schools, assumed in this system, questionable.
Is that bolded part true? G5 confererence champions are not eligible to appear in the playoff? The next sentence seems to challenge that (possibly, depending on how you parse "or").

What I was trying to discover was whether or not they are actually prevented from competing by rule, or if they are frozen out by selection bias or something like that.

No, that's not accurate. Probably a bitter UCF fan edited that in. They're largely locked out by selection bias due to strength of schedule.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:41 pm

How to ruin football: try to make it perfect where perfection is impossible.

The NFL is doing it with their ridiculously convoluted rules. The NCAA is doing it by trying to come up with an undisputed champion out of over 100 teams that all play under 15 games. It is statistical folly.

I miss the old poll system and bowl games. Not perfect but then it never claimed to be either.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:48 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:39 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pmIt's nearly impossible for a G5 school (i.e., one not in a Power 5 conference) to end up in the top four due to strength of schedule issues. They have to play mostly against teams in their own conference, which makes it harder to show a strength of schedule comparable to the P5 schools.
That was sort of my understanding (that they were considered lesser in part at least because their competition was mostly lesser). That's the part that made me not particularly care about their claim based on their undefeatedness.

But that's their beef with the system. It's nearly impossible for them to even get a shot at a title, since even when they beat all comers, they can't break through. Have you no sympathy for the little guy fighting against a corrupt system?

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:41 pm How to ruin football: try to make it perfect where perfection is impossible.

The NFL is doing it with their ridiculously convoluted rules. The NCAA is doing it by trying to come up with an undisputed champion out of over 100 teams that all play under 15 games. It is statistical folly.

I miss the old poll system and bowl games. Not perfect but then it never claimed to be either.

Yeah, I never minded the old system, either (even if it did mean that the BS coaches' poll screwed Michigan out of half of a championship in 1997). The problem is that basketball has such a successful and fun road to crown a champion, and people see that and want to apply it to football. It just doesn't work logistically, so you end up with a half-assed four team tournament (or perhaps in the future a half-assed eight team tournament).

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:23 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:58 pm
Scuzz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:23 pm
Chrisoc13 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:21 pm
Expand to 8. All p5 champs and best g5 champ get a shot plus two at Large teams. Hard to argue the best team won't be among them at that point. Of course every now and then you might get a really weak conference champion in there like we used to with the BCS Auto qualifiers. Not perfect but at least every team would have access.
100% agree with this. If you don't win your conference you have no reason to bitch about not getting in.
Unless you're Ohio St or Alabama .

Heck, it's a good chunk of the fun in College football, arguing like this.

This year had they expanded to 8 having Ohio State and Alabama as wild cards along with UCF would have been easy choices.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:26 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:37 pm
Chrisoc13 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:26 pm That they aren't from a power five conference. But I suspect you already knew that and will respond with a response you had pre prepared.
Please see earlier post about being a *very* casual college football fan.

I don't have a prepared response, nor did I know that. Can I assume that the following statement from wikipedia is more or less accurate?

Wiki wrote:Conference champions from the Power Five are not guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, and conference champions from the Group of Five are not eligible to appear in the playoff. Each conference champion from the Power Five and the highest-ranked Group of Five conference champion is guaranteed a spot in either the playoff or one of the four other most prestigious bowl games.[8] Every year, a non-Power Five team is guaranteed one bid to the New Year's Six bowls, however, so far no additional bids beyond that one have ever been granted. Nonetheless, they have notched an overall record of 3-1 in this time, making the superiority of the Power Five schools, assumed in this system, questionable.
Is that bolded part true? G5 confererence champions are not eligible to appear in the playoff? The next sentence seems to challenge that (possibly, depending on how you parse "or").

What I was trying to discover was whether or not they are actually prevented from competing by rule, or if they are frozen out by selection bias or something like that.

Haha my apologies RM9, it was just a perfect segway for someone to slam strength of schedule. Which is exactly the problem and for the most part why a non-power 5 team won't make it into the playoff. No matter what UCF did this year they were not going to make it, which is evidenced by the fact that they went undefeated and yet have zero shot at playing for a national championship.

Too many fans then say to beef up their strength of schedule, and there is the rub and it has 2 issues, conference schedule and non-conference schedule. First conference schedule. UCF has to play in conference, and the conference is weak, no doubt about it. Sure there are teams in the conference that rise to the surface from time to time, but the consistent top to bottom level of opponents is low in G5 conferences. There is nothing G5 teams can do about that. The criticism I hate most of all (and as a BYU fan we hear it all the time) is to join a better conference. Only people who haven't been in the G5 and pay no attention say that, because most G5 teams and BYU are desperate to join a P5 conference (and some are clearly worthy by on-field performances) and simply do not have the option available for a variety of reasons (mostly they don't bring enough $$$ no matter how good their football product or history is).

So they can't fix their conference schedule, so then people say schedule better teams. But that is hard to do for a number of reasons. First big name opponents don't generally play smaller teams in non-conference. I mean the SEC is notorious for this. THey play 7 home games a year, and their away games tend to be in state or at least in south against very lesser opponents. Teams like Boise State will never attract a team like Florida to come to Boise or have a 1 & 1. And why would Florida? They have their cake and can eat it too right now. There is no upside for them to go beat a scrappy and good Boise State team in Boise that has sidelined national title hopes before. If they win they were supposed to win. If they lose it's a big deal. So they instead sit home in their comfortable home arenas and pay $1 million for Sun Belt teams or UMASS to come in and play a one and done to beef their schedule, because they don't NEED better strength of schedule. So already if UCF wants to play a big name it's very hard to arrange a fair exchange. So they take the other route and do an unbalanced series or a 1 & done or if they are lucky they get a "neutral" road game.

But of course non-conference schedules are made years and years in advance. Up to 10 years even. So who even knows who will be good in the future. For instance this year UCF had Baylor on the schedule. Just a few years ago that would have been a huge win. But this year.... whoops. Too bad, it's already scheduled. Well at least they have Georgia Tech to play... oh wait... cancelled. And now their non-conference strength of schedule which was already incredibly difficult to set up is shot. Now they have a crap strength of schedule and before the season even starts they have ZERO shot at getting into the playoffs.

So yeah as a fan on the outside looking in for one of these schools it's frustrating. There is nothing honestly that your school can do to rise to the top. Hope for dumb luck. Or multiple years of being undefeated I guess, which is absurd. Most people are fans of P5 schools so they generally react with a "meh" to the situation. But it's a horribly unbalanced and unfair situation where the rich only get richer. Every now and then lightning strikes at the right time and a team like Utah or TCU gets to make the jump to the rich boys club, but otherwise there is no fairness in college football. The last non-P5 team to win the NC was BYU, and they did in during a relatively weak year. The only saving grace they had that let them win it was not only being undefeated in 1984, but also being on a 24 game winning streak and finishing the previous year ranked at #7. So I guess UCF can hope that they run the table again next year... because that's probably the only way they will be considered.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:31 pm

UCF has it even tougher because the big teams in Floriduh have no reason to schedule them. They compete for the same athletes and so playing UCF (and risking losing) is nothing but a negative.

And yea, Fresno State tried really hard to make themselves attractive to a larger conference 15 years ago and I think all it did in the end was ruin the fan base.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:02 pm

Western Michigan was in a similar situation last season, going undefeated in the regular season. They beat two Big Ten teams as well. I knew that in spite of the perfect regular season, that they didn't have a chance in hell to get playoff consideration. They did end up with a quality bowl game and lost by 8 to Wisconsin. If they had managed to win that game I would have been fine with them making the same claim as UFC. This is one of the reasons I wouldn't mind an 8 game playoff. It would give teams like this a shot. Sure they are likely to get knocked off in the first game but so what? At least they would get a chance, something that, in spite of what the NCAAs want to claim, namely that every team has a shot, is simply not true.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:02 pm

I think that the best solution is something similar to what Saban suggested in the off-season: Have Power 5 conferences only play other Power 5 teams. For example, each team would play 8 conference games and then one game against a team from each of the other power 5 conferences (which would rotate each year so that everyone would play everyone else at least once every 14 years or so). This would make for a vastly more interesting schedule for every P5 team. You would also have rules about conference size and require each conference to play a title game, so all 5 conferences are on more or less equal footing.

The remaining Division I schools could then have their own "League" where everyone would actually have a shot at being the top team at the end of the year. They would have their own playoff and could enter into non-playoff bowl games against P5 teams as normal.

Of course, fans of Division I non-P5 schools would probably not like being "demoted" in a sense, but you can't have 68 team tournaments in football, so the only realistic way for everyone to be happy and have a fair shot at being National Champions is to basically divide Division I into two divisions.

This would be my solution. What would you guys change to make the system more equitable, since even an 8 team playoff is likely to exclude teams like UCF or last year's Western Michigan?

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:06 am

Already proposed my solution. 8 teams. All P5 conference champs and the highest rated G5. 2 at large. Done.

Demoting won't happen because it would have to be the NCAA doing it. The only option in that vein would be for the p5 schools to actually leave the NCAA and form their own league, which has been thrown around before as an idea. Rather than cutting out the G5 Teams give them a shot. It's not rocket science and it's one spot.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:02 pm

I don't think schools like Fresno State and Houston think they can win the national title, but they want to feel like if they have that mythical season, like UCF did this year, that they could at least be in the playoff picture. Fresno State had that chance in 2005 or 2006 when they beat Wisconsin and led the Reggie Bush led USC Trojan's until losing by a couple. Saban's idea would end that, and it would effectively end football for may schools as many would simply refuse to become the North Dakota's of college football.

Also, with Saban's system what happens when Bama plays Ohio State and Auburn gets Indiana. How does that resolve anything?

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:57 pm

And one thing I'll chime in with. Don't mess with the Rose Bowl. Play it NYD, with kickoff @ 2:30pm PST. If there's a holy football game, it's the Rose Bowl, and if I can only watch one football game a year, that's it. Period.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:00 pm

Alabama is favored by 4.5. Any takers for Georgia (snicker)?

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:14 pm

College Football Title Pits Rich vs. Richer, and Idaho's Over It

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:30 pm

I don't think that link links to what you think it links to.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:10 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:00 pm Alabama is favored by 4.5. Any takers for Georgia (snicker)?

I'd definitely contemplate it, especially as Alabama got pretty dinged up last week again, and I think Georgia's RB's are much better (than Alabama or Clemson's RB's). Losing another starting linebacker in a smash-mouth game is not a good sign. Remember also that Minke Fitzpatrick had to go to the hospital after the semi final too.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:00 pm Alabama is favored by 4.5. Any takers for Georgia (snicker)?

How's this - I'll gladly take Georgia plus the points for the first pitcher of beer (or food, if beer doesn't work). Not sure where in CA you are though...

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:54 pm

Scuzz wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:30 pm I don't think that link links to what you think it links to.

How about this one?

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:26 pm

Moliere wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:54 pm
Scuzz wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:30 pm I don't think that link links to what you think it links to.
How about this one?

Worked, and it really shows the reality of college sports, especially with regards to paying players:

So far, Idaho remains an outlier. The FBS continues to grow, creating a glut of schools at the bottom of the division. Of the 112 public universities in the FBS last year, 45 generated less than $20 million directly from athletics.

Figure one was the Group of 5 team in the New Year's 6 - Western Michigan last year. I started doing a count of schools in the Power 5 (66, including Notre Dame and BYU), but not all of those are public schools. However, there are only 129 FBS (division 1) football schools per wikipedia.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:50 pm

Wow, I stand corrected. MSD must be sweating balls...

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:03 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:50 pm Wow, I stand corrected. MSD must be sweating balls...

Georgia playing Alabama ball better than Alabama. I love Jalen but he has not progressed beyond what he was when he started last year. We may need to start Tua in the 2nd half. And that missed FG and the 3rd & 20 run really shifted the momentum. I also hope someday Bama signs a kicker than can kick consistently.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:26 pm

and Tua starts but we are down two Offensive linemen now. Been the damnedest year for injuries.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:38 pm

Lassr wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:26 pm and Tua starts but we are down two Offensive linemen now. Been the damnedest year for injuries.

That's how you throw the ball!

edit: and that's not how you throw the ball. <sigh>

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:01 am

Missed the Fucking FG again

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:02 am

Oh my God! That poor kid.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:02 am

OT with an unreliable kicker...

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:11 am

I think that receiver was open.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:11 am

Dammit.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:12 am

OMG! Tua is our guy. I love Jalen, great kid, but wow Tua!

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:13 am

Final info in my spoiler. Dont read if you want it unknown.

Spoiler:

That last play....wow.

As a big Tennessee fan said to me today..no matter the end its TN who wins. They get coaches from both teams.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:20 am

The feed on my ESPN app froze right before he snapped the ball on that final play. By the time I could kill the app, restart, and log back in, the app had stopped showing the broadcast because the game was over. Lol...such are the perils of watching sports in 2018.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:23 am

Wow. Crazy ending and Tua was incredibly poised. Wow wow wow. That was something else.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:54 am

Lassr wrote:OMG! Tua is our guy. I love Jalen, great kid, but wow Tua!

He better wear a mouthpiece if he starts next year. He's lucky he didn't lose any teeth tonight!

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:56 am

Skinypupy wrote:The feed on my ESPN app froze right before he snapped the ball on that final play. By the time I could kill the app, restart, and log back in, the app had stopped showing the broadcast because the game was over. Lol...such are the perils of watching sports in 2018.

Being on the west coast, I had the game tivo'ed, but I only gave it an extra 30 minutes. The missed fg happened with 15 minutes left in my recording and I said to myself that if it went more than one OT, I was screwed.