Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[Zaxxon]

This is the one where Locutus infiltrates the Cylon protomolecule and saves the day, right?

[pr0ner]

This is the one where Locutus infiltrates the Cylon protomolecule and saves the day, right?

I got that reference.

[McNutt]

Lando might be my favorite Star Wars character. I loved him in Episodes V and VI. I was not a fan of his portrayal in Solo. Not at all.

I'm torn about him here. As much as I love Billy Dee, I see no reason for Lando to be involved in this story. I HATE the amount of fan service I see in these movies and this is just more of it.

I still love you Billy Dee.

[McNutt]

YK, that's an interesting theory. Palpatine was still around and Snoke was just a puppet. That would explain why he didn't get the development a true villain deserves.

Also, the Force isn't a judge of right or wrong. It's not divine, right? So there should be no reason a bad person strong in the Force can't become a Force ghost. Vader did it and he was pretty damn evil. So why can't Palpatine be one too?

[Daehawk]

Luke and Leia were not twins...they were triplets and there is another Skywalker

[raydude]

So, I would have thought the end of a saga would also come with an end to the old legends - to be replaced with new legends - aka an end to the Skywalker lineage. If Skywalker is rising that means the Skywalker line is continuing, which means the new legends are really just the old legends milked for more money.

[Zarathud]

I am a Skywalker, like the Jedi but something better.

[Biyobi]

Padme's coming back. You bought that line about dying from a broken heart? Hah!

[Holman]

If Skywalker is rising that means the Skywalker line is continuing, which means the new legends are really just the old legends milked for more money.

Pretty sure that's in Lucas' copy of Joseph Campbell somewhere, so, yeah.

[Rumpy]

I'm torn about him here. As much as I love Billy Dee, I see no reason for Lando to be involved in this story. I HATE the amount of fan service I see in these movies and this is just more of it.

I still love you Billy Dee.

I actually feel that he should have been in it earlier, like in TLJ for instance or even TFA. They could have used him in TLJ where that other guy appears on the casino planet. But yeah, other than that I kind of agree with you. It leaves the new characters with no room to breathe. Honestly, I'll watch it, but I don't have high hopes in them completing the trilogy in a satisfying manner.

[Hrdina]

Yeah, what if Rise of Skywalker refers to him? He’s a Solo I guess, but this is 2019.

He's a Solo and a Skywalker, eh?

[Punisher]

I do get the logic behind playing it super safe on Episode 7. It was the first Star Wars movie since the prequels, and if it shat the bed, that could kill (or at least substantially diminish the profitability of) the renewed Star Wars industry that Disney was building.

But with Episode 7 a success... they should at least be taking some risks and doing *some* interesting things, other than crank out by-the-number main films along with backstory films for everyone from Han Solo to Aunt Beru.

Aunt Beru actually survived A New Hope. She was always prepared for the day Stormtroopers would stop by the moisture farm because she was actually a notorious Outer Rim crime lord in hiding. Now on Disney+ you can watch as she claws her way back to power.

You sir are very wrong.. As evidenced in this documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO6rqAJ3mGc

[msteelers]

As someone who thoroughly enjoyed The Force Awakens and is somewhere between underwhelmed and actively disliking TLJ, I'm excited to get JJ back for Episode 9.

I appreciate what Rian Johnson tried to do, but YK put it perfectly:

As the middle of a trilogy, it was a train wreck

And there is a person/team overseeing Star Wars. Just like Kevin Feige is the mastermind behind the MCU, Kathleen Kennedy rules the Star Wars content. She worked closely with Spielberg, co-founded Amblin Entertainment, and is a producer on every movie you've loved since ET came out in 1982.

Spoiler:

Indiana Jones
Gremlins
The Goonies
Back to the Future
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Jurassic Park
+ a lot more

[Redfive]

As someone who thoroughly enjoyed The Force Awakens and is somewhere between underwhelmed and actively disliking TLJ, I'm excited to get JJ back for Episode 9.

This is pretty much me as well.

[Baroquen]

As someone who thoroughly enjoyed The Force Awakens and is somewhere between underwhelmed and actively disliking TLJ, I'm excited to get JJ back for Episode 9.

I appreciate what Rian Johnson tried to do, but YK put it perfectly:

As the middle of a trilogy, it was a train wreck

Yeah, this is basically my feeling as well. I enjoyed TFA. TLJ was ok, but I felt like it horribly mangled some scenes. I'm liking it less as time passes. And the biggest complaint I have is there's not any sense of continuity about these three movies. The teaser/trailer for Ep. 9 only seems to confirm that. So I'm in a weird spot. I'm hopeful that I enjoy this next episode more than the last, but more disillusioned that there won't be a cohesive story that was told.

[McNutt]

If that's the second Death Star in that trailer then there is a good chance we'll have more Ewoks.

[ImLawBoy]

Also, the Force isn't a judge of right or wrong. It's not divine, right? So there should be no reason a bad person strong in the Force can't become a Force ghost. Vader did it and he was pretty damn evil. So why can't Palpatine be one too?

It does seem that there's a distinction between powers of light side vs. dark side users. It's evident in the games, obviously, but even in the movies you don't see good guys using force lightening. Perhaps the midichlorians react differently when the motivation is good vs. hate? You'll have to ask George . . . .

[El Guapo]

I don’t want to accuse them of actually having a plan for the stories, but it seems they went a fair bit out of their way to show Kylo struggling with good/evil for him to just be thoroughly evil and not have a redemption.

Prediction: Rey veers to the Dark Side and Kylo saves her from it sacrifices himself to save her from it.

Boom. Canon.

I dunno. TLJ (and the end of TFA) was the point where Kylo was given the choice between good and evil with the capacity to go either direction, and he affirmatively chose the dark side. Not that it seems like there was much of an overarching plan for the trilogy, but I'd rather they just have Kylo be the main villain at this point. And I'm a hard no on the Emperor being the villain again. God damn write some new Star Wars stories for once.

[McNutt]

I dunno. TLJ (and the end of TFA) was the point where Kylo was given the choice between good and evil with the capacity to go either direction, and he affirmatively chose the dark side.

Did he? That's a serious question because I can't remember all the nuances here. In The Last Jedi Kylo is given the opportunity to take over the First Order and he takes it. That isn't necessarily dark side stuff because he could feel he's going to change the First Order and make it into something of his creation. In his mind he might think he's going to turn it into something good, you know, the peace in the galaxy BS.

I've always thought of the Dark Side as a choice. These practitioners choose to be evil. Kylo might not think he's being evil. He might think he's doing what's best for the galaxy and not just what's best for him. Rey was trying to stop him, and he couldn't let that. He tried to kill Luke, but honestly, screw Luke. The last time he saw Luke, his teacher was about to strike him down in his sleep.

[Isgrimnur]

Kylo has anger issues. He makes Anakin's anger issues look like a playground tantrum. And for whatever reason, Vader never had anger issues.

[McNutt]

And for whatever reason, Vader never had anger issues.

That is damn funny.

[Zarathud]

Noooooooooo.

[El Guapo]

I dunno. TLJ (and the end of TFA) was the point where Kylo was given the choice between good and evil with the capacity to go either direction, and he affirmatively chose the dark side.

Did he? That's a serious question because I can't remember all the nuances here. In The Last Jedi Kylo is given the opportunity to take over the First Order and he takes it. That isn't necessarily dark side stuff because he could feel he's going to change the First Order and make it into something of his creation. In his mind he might think he's going to turn it into something good, you know, the peace in the galaxy BS.

I've always thought of the Dark Side as a choice. These practitioners choose to be evil. Kylo might not think he's being evil. He might think he's doing what's best for the galaxy and not just what's best for him. Rey was trying to stop him, and he couldn't let that. He tried to kill Luke, but honestly, screw Luke. The last time he saw Luke, his teacher was about to strike him down in his sleep.

Everyone who seizes power has an agenda of some type. Anakin wanted to bring peace and order to the galaxy, and to save his wife, when he went full dark side. The point is that the lust for power corrupts the noblest of intentions.

[Zaxxon]

Everyone who seizes power has an agenda of some type. Anakin wanted to bring peace and order to the galaxy, and to save his wife, when he went full dark side. The point is that the lust for power corrupts the noblest of intentions.

Don't forget that he also wanted to ban all that course, rough, irritating sand. It gets everywhere.

[McNutt]

Everyone who seizes power has an agenda of some type. Anakin wanted to bring peace and order to the galaxy, and to save his wife, when he went full dark side. The point is that the lust for power corrupts the noblest of intentions.

Anakin/Vader left the dark side when he killed the Emperor. Kylo might have left the dark side when he killed Snoke. If he did, did he then rejoin the dark side? I don't know. He didn't really do anything evil after he killed Snoke. He just didn't want to throw away this big organization that he had just inherited. I never saw him make the choice to be dark side.

[El Guapo]

Everyone who seizes power has an agenda of some type. Anakin wanted to bring peace and order to the galaxy, and to save his wife, when he went full dark side. The point is that the lust for power corrupts the noblest of intentions.

Anakin/Vader left the dark side when he killed the Emperor. Kylo might have left the dark side when he killed Snoke. If he did, did he then rejoin the dark side? I don't know. He didn't really do anything evil after he killed Snoke. He just didn't want to throw away this big organization that he had just inherited. I never saw him make the choice to be dark side.

He seized control of the Space Nazi Party and immediately oversaw the crushing of a small group of freedom fighters, notably including his mother, who he did not evince any indication as to caring whether she lived or died in the battle. I mean, yeah it's not definitive definitive, and if Vader can come back from the dark side then anyone can, but I would say Kylo's definitely firmly dark side now.

[McNutt]

Yeah, I'm sort of playing Devil's Advocate here. I think he's dark side. I just wish the universe allowed more shades of grey here.

[Holman]

It does seem like the movies have asked us to invest ourselves in Kylo's emotional pain and to hope that Rey might save him.

The same thing happened very quickly (really just during the last act of ROTJ) with Vader and Luke, but then the whole point of the prequel trilogy was to get us to care about Anakin the same way we care about Kylo.

Plus, this is Disney now. I'm not sure they'll pass up the opportunity for a genuinely compelling redemption story.

[El Guapo]

Yeah, I'm sort of playing Devil's Advocate here. I think he's dark side. I just wish the universe allowed more shades of grey here.

I wish Count Dooku had been made to be more of a grey hero. Like, he's a disaffected former Jedi who sees what the arrogant Jedi council doesn't - that the new Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord, and so he starts a galactic civil war with the hopes of at least saving half the galaxy.

As for this trilogy, I think Kylo going full dark side in TLJ is part of TLJ's general theme of "things don't always go the way you hope / think". Sometimes the mercenary turns out to have a heart of gold, but often he's just a mercenary who's happy to sell you out when he gets the chance. Sometimes the tormented soul redeems himself, but often he succumbs to his pain.

Of course I wouldn't be shocked if JJ retconns this and has Kylo come back to the light in episode 9, confronting the Emperor on the third Death Star and saying "I am a Jedi like my uncle before me".

[McNutt]

I wish Count Dooku had been made to be more of a grey hero. Like, he's a disaffected former Jedi who sees what the arrogant Jedi council doesn't - that the new Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord, and so he starts a galactic civil war with the hopes of at least saving half the galaxy.

100% agree. His character turn was terrible because it could have been so much more.

[Punisher]

Everyone who seizes power has an agenda of some type. Anakin wanted to bring peace and order to the galaxy, and to save his wife, when he went full dark side. The point is that the lust for power corrupts the noblest of intentions.

Don't forget that he also wanted to ban all that course, rough, irritating sand. It gets everywhere.

To be fair, it DOES get everywhere.

[El Guapo]

Everyone who seizes power has an agenda of some type. Anakin wanted to bring peace and order to the galaxy, and to save his wife, when he went full dark side. The point is that the lust for power corrupts the noblest of intentions.

Don't forget that he also wanted to ban all that course, rough, irritating sand. It gets everywhere.

To be fair, it DOES get everywhere.

Yeah, he does have a point on that.

#Anakin2020

[Bakhtosh]

https://lifehacker.com/bring-baby-powde ... 1709669696

I believe that the Emperor's force imprint (different from the light side's Force Ghosts) on the Death Star 2 will call to Kylo when he goes looking for more information and training. His rise to power as a new Sith Lord would have been a great mid-trilogy movie.

[Rumpy]

And I'm a hard no on the Emperor being the villain again. God damn write some new Star Wars stories for once.

Yeah, agreed. I've wanted some progression beyond all that. I feel kind of sad that they've squandered on the opportunity to introduce a major constant villain over the course of the trilogy. I mean, aside from Kylo that is. It should be someone else's turn to fill the void, someone like Thrawn who they've since made canon through one of the cartoon series. Everything so far has been piecemeal. Like someone already mentioned, there's no real sense of continuity.

[Unagi]

Maybe I'm all alone.

I've had a modest enjoyment of all the films, and that's all I really wanted and expected. I realize my love for Star Wars is mostly about imagination and enjoying the universe that was invented some 40 years ago.
The new movies didn't do everything I wanted, but they didn't ruin anything really.

While I understand what most people are saying...
the below exchange makes me cringe:

I'm torn about him here. As much as I love Billy Dee, I see no reason for Lando to be involved in this story. I HATE the amount of fan service I see in these movies and this is just more of it.

I still love you Billy Dee.

I actually feel that he should have been in it earlier, like in TLJ for instance or even TFA. They could have used him in TLJ where that other guy appears on the casino planet. But yeah, other than that I kind of agree with you. It leaves the new characters with no room to breathe. Honestly, I'll watch it, but I don't have high hopes in them completing the trilogy in a satisfying manner.

Either you agree or you wanted him in TLJ or even TFA. There is no 'other than that'.

Personally, I'm pretty sure if they used Lando in the place you describe --- I can't imagine everyone being OK with it. That would have, IMO, been an even more heavy handed use of an old character.
(not that any of us understand his role yet in the next one, of course)

[YellowKing]

I'm putting this theory floating around in heavy spoiler tags because it makes sense and jibes very closely with my own theory:

Spoiler:

I predicted the Emperor was somehow able to switch host bodies, but if this theory holds true, I was on the right track but not quite there.

The theory states that Darth Plageuis (the Emperor's master) is the real big bad. He uncovered the secret of transferring his life force to another host body, but the old host body has to be killed first. He inhabited the Emperor's body when the Emperor murdered him (something he had predicted and planned all along).

In a New Hope, the Emperor desperately wants Luke as the new host body, which is why he taunts Luke into killing him. His plans are thwarted, however, when Vader kills him.

We know Snoke was a seeker of ancient artifacts. The theory states that Snoke stumbled across the Emperor's corpse in the ruins of the second Death Star and became "infected" with Plageuis' spirit. Snoke is now the new Plagueis, but still needs a younger, fresher host body. Enter Kylo Ren.

Snoke grooms Kylo Ren and when the time is right sets up his own betrayal/death at his hands. Kylo is now Plagueis, and this is the secret Rey and company uncover in Rise of the Skywalker. This is also why Kylo is now suddenly keen on taking command of the First Order rather than tearing it all down.

Obviously this is all speculation, but if true I think it would be a satisfying explanation for some of the head-scratching character decisions in the last two films.

[El Guapo]

I'm putting this theory floating around in heavy spoiler tags because it makes sense and jibes very closely with my own theory:

Spoiler:

I predicted the Emperor was somehow able to switch host bodies, but if this theory holds true, I was on the right track but not quite there.

The theory states that Darth Plageuis (the Emperor's master) is the real big bad. He uncovered the secret of transferring his life force to another host body, but the old host body has to be killed first. He inhabited the Emperor's body when the Emperor murdered him (something he had predicted and planned all along).

In a New Hope, the Emperor desperately wants Luke as the new host body, which is why he taunts Luke into killing him. His plans are thwarted, however, when Vader kills him.

We know Snoke was a seeker of ancient artifacts. The theory states that Snoke stumbled across the Emperor's corpse in the ruins of the second Death Star and became "infected" with Plageuis' spirit. Snoke is now the new Plagueis, but still needs a younger, fresher host body. Enter Kylo Ren.

Snoke grooms Kylo Ren and when the time is right sets up his own betrayal/death at his hands. Kylo is now Plagueis, and this is the secret Rey and company uncover in Rise of the Skywalker. This is also why Kylo is now suddenly keen on taking command of the First Order rather than tearing it all down.

Obviously this is all speculation, but if true I think it would be a satisfying explanation for some of the head-scratching character decisions in the last two films.

That's not bad, actually. I tend to prefer having Kylo as the 'big bad' essentially rather than introducing a new villain in the last film, but that's not a bad way to tie both this trilogy and all the main Star Wars films together.

[Zarathud]

Kylo's very own force ghost.

[McNutt]

Spoiler:

Who could you have transferred to in the Death Star? As far as we know, Luke was the only one shown to be in the area and get out.

One thing I never understood was the Sith rule of two. If you know your student is going to kill you, why have a student?

[hepcat]

I would kill to see a horror film about possession set in the Star Wars universe. Hell, I'd kill to just see a horror film set in the Star Wars universe. That would be a great mash up.