Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[Jaymann]

I still have a sense of wonder. I wonder how they can make such a shitty movie.

[McNutt]

I haven't lost my sense of wonder either.

Spoiler:

I wonder how the Emperor survived.
I wonder how he built 1,000 Star Destroyers.
I wonder how he recruited, trained and provided for the 30 million crew members.
I wonder how Kylo made it to the Sith planet in an old TIE Fighter with no wayfinder.
I wonder how Lando and Chewie managed to round up 5,000 good guy ships in about ten minutes.
I wonder how BB8 just happened to land next to Rey in The Force Awakens

I could go on with my sense of wonder.

[Zarathud]

The sense of wonder is called the Force. It’s a plot device as we saw in Rogue One.

[McNutt]

The force as a plot device doesn't explain those things though.

[Jaymann]

I haven't lost my sense of wonder either.

Spoiler:

I wonder how the Emperor survived.
I wonder how he built 1,000 Star Destroyers.
I wonder how he recruited, trained and provided for the 30 million crew members.
I wonder how Kylo made it to the Sith planet in an old TIE Fighter with no wayfinder.
I wonder how Lando and Chewie managed to round up 5,000 good guy ships in about ten minutes.
I wonder how BB8 just happened to land next to Rey in The Force Awakens

I could go on with my sense of wonder.

He had a psychic connection with Euron Greyjoy, who built a fleet of 1,000 ships in a few weeks on an island with a small population. And no trees.

[McNutt]

Ha!

[Rumpy]

Spoiler:

As for the whole transcorder thing, yeah, it was weird. I thought the one she'd got from the Death Star, Kylo destroyed, and somehow she has one after Luke's encounter.

Also another thing that really confused me that they didn't bother explaining was Chewie surviving, but maybe I can chalk that to poor editing. It clearly shows the ship he was on exploding, and as far as I know, In SW, they don't have any transporter-like technology, so how the heck did he survive? Did they switch the ship he was on before they left?

Spoiler:

The transcoder that she found in the Death Star was destroyed. But she steals Kylo's ship when she leaves him on the planet. So she has his. That was clearly explained. But they never did explain how Kylo got there at the end. I suppose he either has a really good memory, or he piggy-backed on the Resistance instructions.

They also absolutely explained how Chewie survived. There was a second transport on the planet. The one that Rey destroyed was not the one that Chewie was on.

Spoiler:

Ok, the explanation about Chewie must have happened quickly, because I really don't remember hearing it. The editing makes it confusing to follow because of the way the scene is set up as an emotional trigger.

[McNutt]

They just said second transport. The explanation was about as vague as how Marion didn't die when the Nazi truck blew up.

[Moat_Man]

The only reason I was yanking your chain is because you went with the ‘you don't have a sense of wonder if you didn't like this film” retort. That's something that gets my hackles up.

I apologize if I made you feel bad. It was intended as a lament not an accusation. What I said was, "I feel sorry for people that have lost their sense of wonder." If you saw the original as a kid and loved it and now you are seeing it as an adult and can't get past the problems with the movie then that's sucks. I only want people to enjoy things and be happy.

I do stand by my statement that, "People are too critical nowadays." This is more of a society wide comment rather than pontificating specifically on nerd rage.

Anyway, your teasing was personally directed at me. I didn't single you out at all (except at the end with a little tit for tat). Your comment also implied I had no taste and ipso facto my opinions were worthless. Maybe that's extreme but it's what I felt. Call me sensative.

[hepcat]

The only reason I was yanking your chain is because you went with the ‘you don't have a sense of wonder if you didn't like this film” retort. That's something that gets my hackles up.

I apologize if I made you feel bad. It was intended as a lament not an accusation. What I said was, "I feel sorry for people that have lost their sense of wonder." If you saw the original as a kid and loved it and now you are seeing it as an adult and can't get past the problems with the movie then that's sucks. I only want people to enjoy things and be happy.

I do stand by my statement that, "People are too critical nowadays." This is more of a society wide comment rather than pontificating specifically on nerd rage.

Anyway, your teasing was personally directed at me. I didn't single you out at all (except at the end with a little tit for tat).

I disagree with almost every comment you just made. Also, framing your accusation as a lament does not, in fact, make it less insulting.

Anyway, why am I the person at fault if a movie in a beloved franchise is badly made? You already noted that you had issues with the Last Jedi (which was far better than RoS), so we know you're capable of being critical of Star Wars. And yes, you already said I should focus on your use of the word "too", but that's just semantics. You're simply being a hypocritic in telling everyone they shouldn't be too critical of RoS...then turning around and being too critical of Last Jedi.

And people aren't too critical these days. If anything, we're not critical enough nowadays. If it's got huge explosions, plenty of pew pew pew and a monkey dressed as a salesman telling off color jokes (sorry, that one is my weak point), it's usually gonna get big box office. I WISH people were too critical. Maybe if they were, we would have had The Empire Strikes Back instead of Revenge of the Sith for this last Star Wars.

Your comment also implied I had no taste and ipso facto my opinions were worthless. Maybe that's extreme but it's what I felt. Call me sensative.

I was doing so because of your accusation that everyone who didn't like the film was the problem, and not the film itself. I figured turnabout was fair play in that case.

[Zaxxon]

This thread's turn is so bizarre. The film's writing is bad. If you think it's not, then your opinion *is* wrong. Sheesh.

Can you still enjoy the film, as I did? Yes. Can you still have a sense of wonder while doing so? Yes.

But it's shit writing, and that's a fact, not an opinion. It's not like the glaring problems aren't actually there, out in the open, discussed ad infinitum here and elsewhere.

[hepcat]

...also, no gilk and NO monkey dressed as a salesman and telling off color jokes means it didn't even try to pander to me.

[Holman]

I apologize if I made you feel bad. It was intended as a lament not an accusation. What I said was, "I feel sorry for people that have lost their sense of wonder." If you saw the original as a kid and loved it and now you are seeing it as an adult and can't get past the problems with the movie then that's sucks. I only want people to enjoy things and be happy.

FWIW, my 16- and 13-year-olds both enjoyed watching RoS and also enjoyed pointing out where the script and plot were weak compared to the original movies. I think there are different kinds of engagement with stories, some more sensational, some more intellectual.

This weekend we've been watching The Witcher and doing the same thing with reference to Game of Thrones.

[Suitably Ironic Moniker]

They just said second transport. The explanation was about as vague as how Marion didn't die when the Nazi truck blew up.

You can briefly see he second transport in the first scene showing them.

[Moat_Man]

The only reason I was yanking your chain is because you went with the ‘you don't have a sense of wonder if you didn't like this film” retort. That's something that gets my hackles up.

I apologize if I made you feel bad. It was intended as a lament not an accusation. What I said was, "I feel sorry for people that have lost their sense of wonder." If you saw the original as a kid and loved it and now you are seeing it as an adult and can't get past the problems with the movie then that's sucks. I only want people to enjoy things and be happy.

I do stand by my statement that, "People are too critical nowadays." This is more of a society wide comment rather than pontificating specifically on nerd rage.

Anyway, your teasing was personally directed at me. I didn't single you out at all (except at the end with a little tit for tat).

I disagree with almost every comment you just made. Also, framing your accusation as a lament does not, in fact, make it less insulting.

Anyway, why am I the person at fault if a movie in a beloved franchise is badly made? You already noted that you had issues with the Last Jedi (which was far better than RoS), so we know you're capable of being critical of Star Wars. And yes, you already said I should focus on your use of the word "too", but that's just semantics. You're simply being a hypocritic in telling everyone they shouldn't be too critical of RoS...then turning around and being too critical of Last Jedi.

And people aren't too critical these days. If anything, we're not critical enough nowadays. If it's got huge explosions, plenty of pew pew pew and a monkey dressed as a salesman telling off color jokes (sorry, that one is my weak point), it's usually gonna get big box office. I WISH people were too critical. Maybe if they were, we would have had The Empire Strikes Back instead of Revenge of the Sith for this last Star Wars.

Your comment also implied I had no taste and ipso facto my opinions were worthless. Maybe that's extreme but it's what I felt. Call me sensative.

I was doing so because of your accusation that everyone who didn't like the film was the problem, and not the film itself. I figured turnabout was fair play in that case.

Get off your high horse. You don't take my olive branch, screw you.

[hepcat]

I apologize if I made you feel bad. It was intended as a lament not an accusation.

[Moat_Man]

I apologize if I made you feel bad. It was intended as a lament not an accusation.

Apology accepted.

[hepcat]

[disarm]

They just said second transport. The explanation was about as vague as how Marion didn't die when the Nazi truck blew up.

You can briefly see he second transport in the first scene showing them.

I saw RoS for you second time today with my 5yo son and can confirm this. There are clearly two transports on the ground, and you didn't see if the one taking off has Chewie or not. Finn apparently wasn't paying enough attention to notice that the ship with Chewie was the one still on the ground.

After a second viewing, I have to admit that I enjoyed it more the second time. Even though I knew the twists and script problems before they happened, it was still a lot of fun... and my five year old clearly loved it as he sat with a huge smile on his face every time the good guys came out ahead.

[Scoop20906]

I just look at it that this version of Star Wars isn't for me anymore. This last movie was literally just a Disney movie ride and thats not terrible. In fact, it could be awesome, from a certain point of view.

But frankly, the franchise is so screwed up now there is just no point in caring. Its just a fun summer movie for kids and nothing more.

[Punisher]

I haven't lost my sense of wonder either.

Spoiler:

I wonder how the Emperor survived.
I wonder how he built 1,000 Star Destroyers.
I wonder how he recruited, trained and provided for the 30 million crew members.
I wonder how Kylo made it to the Sith planet in an old TIE Fighter with no wayfinder.
I wonder how Lando and Chewie managed to round up 5,000 good guy ships in about ten minutes.
I wonder how BB8 just happened to land next to Rey in The Force Awakens

I could go on with my sense of wonder.

Spoiler:

He was only mostly dead and the Sith followers had Miracle Max on speed-dial (Serious: I'm thinking he might be a clone)
He started building them in Revenge of the Sith since everything was as he foresaw (Serious: I think he WAS building them since before the First Order. Remember, The First Order WAS his design as well)
See above. (Serious: See above)
He used the Force! (Serious: Actually I think this was more akin to using a map to get somewhere and just remembering directions) (No clue about how the TF actually got there without a HyperDrive. They should have made it a Tie Advanced, which I believe DID have a Hyper Drive)
It's Lando. He gets shit done. (Serious: It's LANDO he gets shit done!)
BB8 was programmed by Palpatine to find Rey! (Serious: He didn't really land near her. He was wandering the planet after taking off during the Poe battle in the beginning (wasn't he?))

[Punisher]

As for all the back and forth about wonder and what not... This is and always will be subjective and largely based on what your expectations are going into any movie. I think if you are looking for a good, fun popcorn, don't think about things too much, the movie will be fun. As a life long Star Wars fan, I would have liked to see things go differently in this trilogy, but still enjoyed all of them immensely (FWIW, I also enjoyed Solo as a Star Wars movie and the prequels and FONDLY have memories of the Holiday Special, so you know where I am coming from)
None of them were perfect, but I still enjoyed them.
Quite a few of the negatives I've seen around are things I didn't even notice during the film.

Spoiler:

Kylo's use of a normal TF is one.
I did NOT like how they handled the Chewie and 3PO subplots. I think they should have just went with the outcomes as is and move on from there. 3PO's especially seems like a huge waste of time and makes his "sacrifice" seem less... I think the Chewie thing should have stuck, but would also have preferred a different method of killing him off. Something heroic would have been fitting. Maybe even sacrificing himself for Ben at some point.

I did think the huge fleet with their death star guns was silly and was not a fan of them, but still enjoyed them as huge action scenes. Same thing with the horseback ground attack thing.

I would have preferred a different villain than Palpatine unless they had started the trilogy like that. Similar to what they did with the Dark Empire "legends" storyline. (The "legends" has TONS of GREAT stories they could have adapted.

I agree that the Luke trying to kill Ben thing seemed out of character for the Luke we knew, but a lot of time had also passed so who knows how he had changed by then.

[hepcat]

I’ve never understood why franchises like this that have a rich library of professionally written and critically acclaimed novels don’t actually use those resources. Licensing? Hubris?

[McNutt]

Spoiler:

3PO's especially seems like a huge waste of time and makes his "sacrifice" seem less...

Regarding C3PO

Spoiler:

I agree that his "sacrifice" was a bit much considering R2D2 had a fairly recent backup of his memory. I also kept wondering when his talk of losing everything came up, why they didn't just back him up then. Maybe even in Star Wars backups take a really long time.

[Punisher]

Spoiler:

3PO's especially seems like a huge waste of time and makes his "sacrifice" seem less...

Regarding C3PO

Spoiler:

I agree that his "sacrifice" was a bit much considering R2D2 had a fairly recent backup of his memory. I also kept wondering when his talk of losing everything came up, why they didn't just back him up then. Maybe even in Star Wars backups take a really long time.

Spoiler:

C3PO uses a legacy port and they didnt have any adapters

[Punisher]

I’ve never understood why franchises like this that have a rich library of professionally written and critically acclaimed novels don’t actually use those resources. Licensing? Hubris?

My thinking is a combo of both. I'm also not sure just how much of the legends stuff Disney actually owns and how much is still partially owned by the authors of the original material (IE did they retain any rights at all to their stories or did they sell all their rights completely during the original transactions?)
I know that publically we have gotten the "We don't want to be tied down" answer before, but some of that old stuff is really good and they don't need to be tied down to take huge chunks of it and tweak it (again, depending on licensing and whatnot)

[Rumpy]

They just said second transport. The explanation was about as vague as how Marion didn't die when the Nazi truck blew up.

You can briefly see he second transport in the first scene showing them.

I saw RoS for you second time today with my 5yo son and can confirm this. There are clearly two transports on the ground, and you didn't see if the one taking off has Chewie or not. Finn apparently wasn't paying enough attention to notice that the ship with Chewie was the one still on the ground.

After a second viewing, I have to admit that I enjoyed it more the second time. Even though I knew the twists and script problems before they happened, it was still a lot of fun... and my five year old clearly loved it as he sat with a huge smile on his face every time the good guys came out ahead.

Ok, thanks for the confirmation guys. Was it a "blink and you'll miss it" type of thing? I'm just trying to wonder if it was something I should have noticed or if it was something they deliberately setup as misleading.

I’ve never understood why franchises like this that have a rich library of professionally written and critically acclaimed novels don’t actually use those resources. Licensing? Hubris?

You mean the EU? It's done like that to keep things from contradicting itself. Or used to anyway. Now it's not like they need any help contradicting themselves

But yeah, with the wealth of what's already written, and some cherry-picked elements becoming canon, it's surprising why more of it isn't being used. I would have used a villain from one of those rather than bring You-Know-Who back. Someone like Thrawn maybe.

[McNutt]

I think the problem is they are hiring big directors who want to have everything their way, which means they get to write the story.

[Paingod]

Thoughts on plot-powerful spaceships in Ep IX...

I thought people would get angry about those ships, too. My closest correlation was to one of the Star Wars KOTOR video games.

Spoiler:

There's a Star Forge in the game that's one of your end-game objectives to find that can generate a nearly endless supply of tech, including massive ships. It's basically a "god tech" from ancient aliens, and is fueled by a combining a star and the Force. We know they can directly harness stars for power from previous movies, where they sucked in stellar power directly to power the Starkiller Base that wiped out a whole system in one shot.

If they discussed a Star Forge anywhere in the 9 Star Wars movies, I missed it or can't recall it - even in Rise of Skywalker. I personally figured it was this Force/Forge tech that the Emperor was using, but the story was so rushed that it may have been a "blink and you'll miss it" moment, if it was even reviewed.

[naednek]

This thread's turn is so bizarre. The film's writing is bad. If you think it's not, then your opinion *is* wrong. Sheesh.

Can you still enjoy the film, as I did? Yes. Can you still have a sense of wonder while doing so? Yes.

But it's shit writing, and that's a fact, not an opinion. It's not like the glaring problems aren't actually there, out in the open, discussed ad infinitum here and elsewhere.

I agree with this, but I also want to point out even the original movies, the writing had parts in it. I think we have a lot of nostalgia and good childhood memories regarding Star Wars but lost sight that the series as a whole had plot holes and things that didn't make sense. Maybe because most of us were just kids when we first saw it, we didn't seem to care, and today, we pay attention to more detail.

I myself enjoyed all 3 of the new movies. Yes there were problems, but it didn't take away from my enjoyment. I knew what to expect and had the mindset of just having a fun time reliving some of my memories as a child and passing it on to my two kids like my dad did for me.

Sorry that it wasn't same for others.

[Rumpy]

I agree with this, but I also want to point out even the original movies, the writing had parts in it. I think we have a lot of nostalgia and good childhood memories regarding Star Wars but lost sight that the series as a whole had plot holes and things that didn't make sense.

This gets pointed out a lot, but again, for the umpteenth time, the only reason the OT keeps getting referred to is because it is a starting point, the originator of the whole saga, which makes it fair game for comparison. Most of us complaining have never said the OT was perfect by any means, very much far from it. Yes, the OT may not make very much sense at times, but it had structure, and when viewed as a whole, it has a pretty coherent flow from start to finish. The sequels taken as a whole are jumbled mess and you don't even know where it's going most of the time, with some plot threads either shoved aside or dropped altogether. It lacks structure and it is pretty evident. Just because we're looking back to the OT for comparison doesn't mean we're heaping praise upon it.

I think the problem is they are hiring big directors who want to have everything their way, which means they get to write the story.

Oh, I agree and unfortunately their vision of SW is a mixed bag. When originally looking forward to the sequels, since at least the 90's when I heard Lucas was toying with the idea of episodes 7, 8, and 9, I was desperately wanting to see what their universe would look like after ROTJ. I read the Thrawn trilogy which I felt was quite inspired. I was seriously hoping that, even if they hadn't borrowed any of the characters, that they'd have had borrowed some of the same themes along with similar character types.

With the Sequel Trilogy, I feel we got almost no look at universe itself, or got any feel for progression other than the setup of the Rebellion and First Order, which I felt was a bummer. There was a big chance to show struggle and rebuilding among both sides. And upon reflection, I kind of wish there had been more diversity, no not in terms of actors , but in terms of characters, throughout the trilogy. Most of the aliens in the trilogy are on the sidelines. I mean, would it have been so bad to feature an alien as a main villain throughout the trilogy? The SW Universe has always been vast, and I think it would have been great to have a Chiss like Thrawn at the center of everything, just to shake things up if anything.

Spoiler:

And the more I think about it, the more Palpatine's appearance to me is like a Jack-in-the-Box. You shove them inside hoping to forget them after a time, shove it under the bed, and you move on with your life. Here with this trilogy, it's like someone's been turning that crank throughout the first two movies, then on the third, he suddenly pops out: "Surprise! It is I! And yes, I have been pulling the strings! Muahahaha!" Only now because so much time has passed, what made you sometimes jump, is more of a sad memory of a time passed that feels as if doesn't belong.

[McNutt]

I think everyone watches a movie with some degree of critical analysis. For me there are certain things that I can shrug off. It might bother me, but I can still enjoy a movie. I did that to some extent with A New Hope (ordering the gunner not to shoot the escape pod because it didn't have life signs, having a really hard to get to tractor beam control that disables all tractor beams, Leia knowing they were being tracked, yet still flying to Yavin). But those things were not nearly as egregious as what we've seen in the new trilogy. Abrams can't seem to do anything new lately and has copied way too much in Star Wars and Star Trek. Rian Johnson had some fresh ideas (thank God), but didn't know how to finish a confrontation without someone getting knocked out, which was a cheap crutch he used over and over.

It's ok to like the new movies (even the prequels), but the criticisms against these movies are totally valid.

[Punisher]

for what it's worth I picked up the visual guide for the movie. Haven't read or even skimmed it all but it does explain:

Spoiler:

Palpatine and the ships.
So. Exegol has apparently been a Sith acolyte planet for at least several decades.
They are the ones who have been building this fleet it seems.. (Sort of like in an RTS game where you set your factory to auto-build...and then forget about it and all of the sudden you have 150 jeeps sitting in the corner of your map) They are the ones that have also been building up and training the Sith army that mans them.
They are also the ones who have resurrected (I need to double-check that, but I recall the word, resurrect somewhere in there)
So I find this a very plausible scenario. Maybe they go over it in the directors cut more, who knows.

[Hipolito]

I saw this movie over the weekend. I didn't really want to. I haven't been a big Star War fan for a long time, and I heard a lot of bad buzz about this one. But I've seen every live-action SW film in the theater, so I figured I "had" to go.

I felt miserable for most of it. There was so much plot whiplash, with characters going here and there for whatever reasons. No emotional weight or any kind of theme at all.

Toward the end, though, I started to enjoy it. I'm not sure when or why. I guess everyone ran out of places to go and finally started having to deal with each other. It didn't suddenly become a good movie, but for some reason I was pretty emotionally involved in it and was moved to tears several times.

I like this video about the appearance of the last lightsaber. It not only helped me understand SW lore, but made me appreciate Rey more. She's one of my favorite SW characters.

I've surprised no one has posted how they now rank the SW films. I thought that was a thing. Well, here's my ranking.

1. IV: ANH
2. VI: ROTJ
3. III: ROTS
4. VII: TFA
5. V: TESB
6. Rogue One
7. Solo
8. VIII: TLJ
9. IX: TROS
10. II: AOTC
11. I: TPM

Edit: Stupid nerf-herding me got the title of one of the movies wrong.

[McNutt]

My Ranking:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Rogue One
- big gap -


4. Return of the Jedi
- smaller gap -

5. The Last Jedi
6. The Force Awakens
7. Attack of the Clones
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. Solo
10. The Rise of Skywalker
11. The Phantom Menace

[McNutt]

[Lassr]

for what it's worth I picked up the visual guide for the movie. Haven't read or even skimmed it all but it does explain:

Spoiler:

Palpatine and the ships.
So. Exegol has apparently been a Sith acolyte planet for at least several decades.
They are the ones who have been building this fleet it seems.. (Sort of like in an RTS game where you set your factory to auto-build...and then forget about it and all of the sudden you have 150 jeeps sitting in the corner of your map) They are the ones that have also been building up and training the Sith army that mans them.
They are also the ones who have resurrected (I need to double-check that, but I recall the word, resurrect somewhere in there)
So I find this a very plausible scenario. Maybe they go over it in the directors cut more, who knows.

https://movieweb.com/the-rise-of-skywal ... explained/

[Rumpy]

for what it's worth I picked up the visual guide for the movie. Haven't read or even skimmed it all but it does explain:

Spoiler:

Palpatine and the ships.
So. Exegol has apparently been a Sith acolyte planet for at least several decades.
They are the ones who have been building this fleet it seems.. (Sort of like in an RTS game where you set your factory to auto-build...and then forget about it and all of the sudden you have 150 jeeps sitting in the corner of your map) They are the ones that have also been building up and training the Sith army that mans them.
They are also the ones who have resurrected (I need to double-check that, but I recall the word, resurrect somewhere in there)
So I find this a very plausible scenario. Maybe they go over it in the directors cut more, who knows.

Spoiler:

Well, I don't really feel like I care enough for an explanation at this point, as it only ends up justifying a pure nostalgia grab while using it as a main plot point. And it feels seriously cheap. The movie has some serious prequel vibes at times.

[El Guapo]

Thinking about this some more, here is my updated objectively correct ranking of the Star Wars movies:

(1) Empire
(2) A New Hope
(3) Rogue One
(4) The Last Jedi
(5) Force Awakens
(6) Solo
(7) Return of the Jedi
(8) Rise of Skywalker
(9) Revenge of the Sith
(10) Attack of the Clones
(11) Phantom Menace

I did my ranking like 4 thread pages ago!

Anywho, on further review I might switch Jedi and Solo, possibly even dropping Solo back to #8, but I haven't seen it in awhile, so hard to say for sure.

Also, any ranking that puts Empire at #5 is objectively incorrect.

[Apollo]

Looks like this is another Star Wars movie I can skip. Of the six movies I've seen I would rank them this way:

1 Star Wars
2 Return of the Jedi
3 The Empire Strikes Back
4 The Force Awakens
5 Rogue One
1074 The Phantom Menace