My lack of a job thread

[Moliere]

Yes, but I have had terrible luck using LinkedIn.

[TheMix]

My problem with LinkedIn is that, despite telling it that I now have a job and am no longer interested, I still get emails from recruiters. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I get a lot more now than I did when I was looking.

[Jeff V]

It's always easier to get a job when you already have one. I usually ignore connection requests from apparent recruiters because (1) I'm not really looking for a number of reasons and (2) I'm not in the market to buy their product -- they think because I'm an IT manager I have open positions to fill, and this is not the case (0 hirings, 3 firings in the last year).

Still, if you are targeting a specific position at a specific company, it's the best stalker tool available. If you are waiting for the target to respond to your connection request, then you're probably not going to see much results. If your research is accurate and the person(s) you are targeting are currently at the company, you can always try calling the company and asking to speak to them. Every week I get probably a dozen such cold calls forwarded by the switchboard that I promptly hang up on.

Recruiters in general seem to like it a lot. If, for example, you are responding to a posting on a company website, it might help to cut and paste a portion of the job description into a search engine and see if the same thing pops up in an advertisement from a recruiter, then target that recruiter. They are motivated to pimp for you if you can convince them you're a viable candidate for the job.

[Kelric]

6 months in and it is really starting to get to me. I lost track of how many jobs I've applied to after about 200, though I still haven't gotten to retail/food service - the problem is who takes care of the kids? And would I make enough to cover their childcare? I'd need to be making $15 an hour after taxes to cover their full time care and that wouldn't pay for the second car we'd need or the insurance or gas....

I haven't received unemployment for six weeks since they are still reviewing my pension cashout (since unemployment wasn't enough to pay my monthly bills, I had to take my $10k in pension as a lump sum payment). My wife is now temping, but I've had no luck landing a temp gig yet and, again, it'd need to be about $20 an hour to get me to $15 an hour after taxes.

I'm running out of money and willpower and ideas.

[Zaxxon]

Ugh. That sucks. I don't have much helpful to offer other than keep on keepin' on. It'll happen!

[Jeff V]

Have you considered becoming a coal miner?

How many temp/contracting agencies have you put in for? In the past, when the economy was going crazy I would get non-stop calls from recruiters. Several "temp" jobs I've had went perm or long term.

How exactly are you going about your job search? Job aggressors such as Monster, Careerbuilder, or Indeed simply aren't that effective. They make it easy to apply for a job, that's for sure...and there is the problem. It makes it so easy to apply that you're sometimes competing with hundreds who also applied with a few mouse clicks.

Many larger companies do their own hiring. Bookmark their jobs page and visit frequently. Some allow you to create notifications that alert you when something might be of interest. If a company is having a job fair, that can be a good way to get an instant interview and at least establish a contact. Multicompany job fairs, OTOH, I've found to be a waste of time.

usjobs.com is a good site for government jobs, but be warned, some of the applications processes are brutal. The longest I recall was for SSA, it took most of day to answer 20-some odd essay questions. And it resulted in a letter stating I was being considered for a position -- followed shortly by a letter stating that position had been withdrawn.

[Skinypupy]

usjobs.com is a good site for government jobs, but be warned, some of the applications processes are brutal. The longest I recall was for SSA, it took most of day to answer 20-some odd essay questions. And it resulted in a letter stating I was being considered for a position -- followed shortly by a letter stating that position had been withdrawn.

It's usajobs.gov.

And I'd guess that somewhere around 90% of the postings there are pre-wired for internal candidates.

[pr0ner]

usjobs.com is a good site for government jobs, but be warned, some of the applications processes are brutal. The longest I recall was for SSA, it took most of day to answer 20-some odd essay questions. And it resulted in a letter stating I was being considered for a position -- followed shortly by a letter stating that position had been withdrawn.

It's usajobs.gov.

And I'd guess that somewhere around 90% of the postings there are pre-wired for internal candidates.

This is accurate.

[Kraken]

Have you tested multiple versions of your resume? Such as a chronological one, a skills-based one, and versions slanted to particular industries? Do you/can you network with employed people in your chosen field?

[Jaddison]

Have you tried Glassdoor.com? I was just looking around Glassdoor one day at jobs similar to mine and also at competitors reviews and saw many opportunities that met my skillset. I applied to one to test the waters and see what they wanted out a position similar to mine and got a response in hours.

I would not have Glassdoor would be a gateway to jobs/careers but it seems to be.

[Kelric]

How exactly are you going about your job search? Job aggressors such as Monster, Careerbuilder, or Indeed simply aren't that effective. They make it easy to apply for a job, that's for sure...and there is the problem. It makes it so easy to apply that you're sometimes competing with hundreds who also applied with a few mouse clicks.

90% of my applications are through the company websites, with the rest through LinkedIn/Ziprecruiter/Monster/etc. I've talked to two temp agencies so far, with one of them having offices throughout the region and one based just nearby.

Have you tested multiple versions of your resume? Such as a chronological one, a skills-based one, and versions slanted to particular industries? Do you/can you network with employed people in your chosen field?

I've updated my generic resume thrice since my layoff and do (but not always) tweak it for specific jobs. For a company that has posted multiple openings of the same position in the last few months I will send different versions, or if it is a job that mentions something specific in my experience, or if I think I'd be a really good fit for the role.

There isn't much networking that I can think of doing when my entire network is in a different part of the state.

Have you tried Glassdoor.com? I was just looking around Glassdoor one day at jobs similar to mine and also at competitors reviews and saw many opportunities that met my skillset. I applied to one to test the waters and see what they wanted out a position similar to mine and got a response in hours.

I haven't, but I'll sign up.

[Kraken]

Well, your next post will be 30,000, so you're going to need to update your resume for that.

If you're tweaking one generic resume that isn't working, consider changing the format. E.g., not just a straight curriculum vitae, but a bullet list of skills and aptitudes with specific job duties to illustrate them. Do some A/B testing and see if one format works better than the other. It sounds like A isn't working very well so far, so what have you got to lose by trying B instead?

[Kelric]

Finally landed a job; provided my drug screen and background check clear, which they should (unless they look at my GG/OO history). I'm back on the phones in 'customer service' but it is an agent-only line for the company's financial products, so I'll be able to get some certifications and experience in a field that isn't going anywhere anytime soon, which is nice. It is a bleak 16% pay cut but after eight months out of work, what are you going to do?

[Kraken]

Yay?

[Punisher]

Finally landed a job; provided my drug screen and background check clear, which they should (unless they look at my GG/OO history). I'm back on the phones in 'customer service' but it is an agent-only line for the company's financial products, so I'll be able to get some certifications and experience in a field that isn't going anywhere anytime soon, which is nice. It is a bleak 16% pay cut but after eight months out of work, what are you going to do?

The thing to remember in background checks is that until they find the bodies, it's still just a missing person case.

[RunningMn9]

Finally landed a job; provided my drug screen and background check clear, which they should (unless they look at my GG/OO history). I'm back on the phones in 'customer service' but it is an agent-only line for the company's financial products, so I'll be able to get some certifications and experience in a field that isn't going anywhere anytime soon, which is nice. It is a bleak 16% pay cut but after eight months out of work, what are you going to do?

After 8 months out of work, it's no longer a pay cut. It sucks, but the reality of the situation is such that it's a paycheck.

[Kelric]

At least I know that once I put in my year or two in the trenches, the company is big enough to have plenty of places to try and move to.

Finally landed a job; provided my drug screen and background check clear, which they should (unless they look at my GG/OO history). I'm back on the phones in 'customer service' but it is an agent-only line for the company's financial products, so I'll be able to get some certifications and experience in a field that isn't going anywhere anytime soon, which is nice. It is a bleak 16% pay cut but after eight months out of work, what are you going to do?

After 8 months out of work, it's no longer a pay cut. It sucks, but the reality of the situation is such that it's a paycheck.

Yeah, exactly. It's a 100% increase over what I am making now.

[Grifman]

Glad you found something. 84% of something is better than 100% of nothing. It’s a start.

[Moliere]

At least I know that once I put in my year or two in the trenches, the company is big enough to have plenty of places to try and move to.

Glad you found something. 84% of something is better than 100% of nothing. It’s a start.

QFT

[The Meal]

Congrats!

My last unemployment-to-work experience has been met with a 37% pay drop, but came with a corresponding change in career arcs. Other folks staying on my previous career path who were forced out of that industry have been met with a 20-30% pay drop and fit snugly against their career salary ceiling (which comes with a corresponding drop in stability as they age themselves out of the workforce). Not so in my case (hopefully!).

But money-for-work is good. Much better than the alternative. (Well, better than some alternatives, I suppose.)

[Isgrimnur]

On start day, we need a new thread.

[Isgrimnur]

Congrats!

My last unemployment-to-work experience has been met with a 37% pay drop, but came with a corresponding change in career arcs. Other folks staying on my previous career path who were forced out of that industry have been met with a 20-30% pay drop and fit snugly against their career salary ceiling (which comes with a corresponding drop in stability as they age themselves out of the workforce). Not so in my case (hopefully!).

But money-for-work is good. Much better than the alternative. (Well, better than some alternatives, I suppose.)

Over the years, my thought processes have covered thee difference between workers that desire to stay in the skilled technician route versus going into the management route. As someone that has never had the attention span to become the subject matter expert (SME) for any system I've ever worked on, I kind of fell into the management track by default. Also, I get frustrated being given orders that result in less-optimal technical direction than I can come up with five minutes of spitballing.

It hadn't really entered my thought processes that those that end up in the SME would possibly age themselves out of a job for various reasons. Obviously, COBOL folks are still around making bank, but I would imagine cutting edge HDD technology doesn't lend itself nearly as well to those with decades of experience that may no longer be of value. Obviously, an adaptive thinker that can leverage past experiences to current events is an asset, but I imagine that, as with any field, there are those that get off the learning train one day and decide that they're going no farther.

Just a random brain dump brought on by your comments. I have no idea if any of it passes muster outside of my own head.

[Jaymon]

I had a look at my company, buncho finance positions available, but they are in Bellevue, Chicago, or Austin. And also Amsterdam, if you are multi-lingual.

[LordMortis]

Yay?

Because for the most part

Glad you found something. 84% of something is better than 100% of nothing. It’s a start.

[Kraken]

On start day, we need a new thread.

+1. And it had better have a wise-cracking gay guy, a sassy black woman, and a screw-up stoner. The boss should be a hot woman who doesn't take any crap. Maybe throw in a cop and a lawyer, too.

[Isgrimnur]

Bonus points if you can work a skit about getting a wrong acronym for an organization. And borscht.

[Kelric]

On start day, we need a new thread.

+1. And it had better have a wise-cracking gay guy, a sassy black woman, and a screw-up stoner. The boss should be a hot woman who doesn't take any crap. Maybe throw in a cop and a lawyer, too.

Sorry, the boss is a hipster who loves wrestling.

[Kraken]

On start day, we need a new thread.

+1. And it had better have a wise-cracking gay guy, a sassy black woman, and a screw-up stoner. The boss should be a hot woman who doesn't take any crap. Maybe throw in a cop and a lawyer, too.

Sorry, the boss is a hipster who loves wrestling.

That has distinct possibilities.

[Jeff V]

Congrats!

My last unemployment-to-work experience has been met with a 37% pay drop, but came with a corresponding change in career arcs. Other folks staying on my previous career path who were forced out of that industry have been met with a 20-30% pay drop and fit snugly against their career salary ceiling (which comes with a corresponding drop in stability as they age themselves out of the workforce). Not so in my case (hopefully!).

But money-for-work is good. Much better than the alternative. (Well, better than some alternatives, I suppose.)

Over the years, my thought processes have covered thee difference between workers that desire to stay in the skilled technician route versus going into the management route. As someone that has never had the attention span to become the subject matter expert (SME) for any system I've ever worked on, I kind of fell into the management track by default. Also, I get frustrated being given orders that result in less-optimal technical direction than I can come up with five minutes of spitballing.

It hadn't really entered my thought processes that those that end up in the SME would possibly age themselves out of a job for various reasons. Obviously, COBOL folks are still around making bank, but I would imagine cutting edge HDD technology doesn't lend itself nearly as well to those with decades of experience that may no longer be of value. Obviously, an adaptive thinker that can leverage past experiences to current events is an asset, but I imagine that, as with any field, there are those that get off the learning train one day and decide that they're going no farther.

Just a random brain dump brought on by your comments. I have no idea if any of it passes muster outside of my own head.

Pre-Y2K there were vastly more Cobol programmers, most hit the skids afterwards unless they had other skills. Those who have managed to remain employed are probably doing well as this surplus pool gradually eroded away. I remember having one such person as an overnight tech temp who was extremely bitter about suddenly being unemployable. I eventually offered him a job, which he turned down because he was hoping for compensation commensurate with his expertise instead of the pittance that was more in line with the offered job.

My main motivation for getting into management was so I didn't have to spend so much time learning to troubleshoot new technologies. It didn't quite work out that way -- although I can (and do) rely on my minions to handle things, I still have to be the backstop for anything they can't handle.

Kelric - you don't want to make a habit of trading down salary-wise; I had to do it once early in my career and fortunately never since. But 16% can easily be made up by the employee discount alone if you get a part-time job at the liquor store.

[dbt1949]

When I was a teenager I expected to make more money than my dad, and keep making more every year there after. <sigh>
I suppose the greed of my generation and that of my parents generation put a stop to that.
Not that those generations since then are any less greedy either.

[RunningMn9]

It hadn't really entered my thought processes that those that end up in the SME would possibly age themselves out of a job for various reasons.

There’s probably a number of ways to fall into the trap, but I would guess the big two are becoming an SME in a hyper-specific field/technology, or by simply becoming too expensive.

I recently moved into the role of SME here, which gives me the ability to offer much more of a leadership role than without. Hopefully it’s a bit of a hybrid role that lets me stretch things out. But part of the key to my role is that what I’m an SME in isn’t really technology dependent.

Part of the role is the technical side of the weapon system, but more importantly it’s the actual way that the soldiers use the weapon systems - which hasn’t changed since WW2. Beyond that, it’s derived from a long history of software engineering knowledge across multiple technologies and languages.

Luckily there are a number of SMEs here who are of advanced age, it gives me hope that I can last here another 23 years.

[Jeff V]

There are several possible manifestations of SME. A full-time SME in a single technology or application could very well have an expiration date if one becomes too entrenched (we have several positions in our company whose sole purpose is to support not even an entire application, but a single plug-in for an application). On my team, we have to offer a broad range of support and when we implement new technologies, I might designate one or more of my techs to become SME in that technology - but not so much where they aren't working on a broad range of technologies. If any given technology required full-time support, that support probably wouldn't come from my team. As an example, I needed a tech to become an expert at configuring Xerox printers and copiers for our network environment. Sometimes this is a busy job - Xerox might refresh 40-50 devices at a location. But mostly it's just dealing with the occasional new installation or troubleshooting a problem at an average rate of an incident per week.

Becoming an SME on a broader technology is not a bad way to steer a career. In technology there is an ever-present risk that game-changing technology will have an extinction-event impact on a particular sector, but most change is slow enough to see coming and adjust accordingly. A friend of mine is an Excel guru and he commands big bucks working as an independent contractor. There is almost no way his career will be endangered before he retires. Becoming an expert in Cisco IOS is probably another solid specialty.

[RunningMn9]

In my case, it was an experimental solution to a situation that developed. Back in Oct, the Tech Lead on the project quit and left the govt. For all intents and purposes, I was doing the role of tech lead for the predecessor project, and was the most likely fit to replace him. However, the Tech Lead has to be a govt employee, and I'm not a govt employee. While I'm spiritually amenable to become a govt employee, the unfortunate reality is that at the moment there is no way for the govt to afford me.

Unfortunately, all the available govt employees are young and not really suited to being a Tech Lead at this juncture. So they picked the least objectionable option, and declared me the SME for the team, which gives everyone an official reason to come to me instead of him. As a general rule, I'm the only one that actually treats him like a Tech Lead, and I make sure that I'm not making decisions so much as offering advice with a suitable explanation for why.

So far it seems to be working out. Knowing every area of the Windows version of the product and knowing most versions of the newer Android version of the product, plus 20+ years of software dev experience in a few different fields using many different operating systems, languages, etc. And I try to keep up-to-date on new languages and what not.

But in the end, I'll likely price myself out of a job and be a sad bear.

[MHS]

Finally landed a job; provided my drug screen and background check clear, which they should (unless they look at my GG/OO history). I'm back on the phones in 'customer service' but it is an agent-only line for the company's financial products, so I'll be able to get some certifications and experience in a field that isn't going anywhere anytime soon, which is nice. It is a bleak 16% pay cut but after eight months out of work, what are you going to do?

Congrats. Just remember that a paycheck is better than a not paycheck and (as has been stated already) it's always easier to find a job when you already have a job, so this is potentially just a stepping stone.

[LordMortis]

But in the end, I'll likely price myself out of a job and be a sad bear.

That's my fear. They keep giving me more and more money but then they expect more and more work. Back in college when they said "you will rise to your level incompetence" I had no idea that if you had no aspiration for advancement (which I never have had) you will pay increase to your level mental breakdown.

[coopasonic]

But in the end, I'll likely price myself out of a job and be a sad bear.

At my level, at my employer (what is that, there, that you have in your wallet?), being an SME in multiple areas is a requirement if you don't want to move into management. Of course, it's also a requirement for me to speak at conferences... so far I have managed to skirt that one because my SME-ness is too valuable (and I'm pretty sure I could never do it). It keeps me from any further advancement or great reviews, but I am ok with that.

Oh, good luck Kelric.

[Jeff V]

But in the end, I'll likely price myself out of a job and be a sad bear.

That's my fear. They keep giving me more and more money but then they expect more and more work. Back in college when they said "you will rise to your level incompetence" I had no idea that if you had no aspiration for advancement (which I never have had) you will pay increase to your level mental breakdown.

My experience is that employers generally don't make an effort to keep your pay at market rate. They bank that your comfort in the job is too much inertia to overcome. This is why whenever I'm on the market, I eventually find something that pays more than I ever have before.

You know your employer values you when you threaten to leave and suddenly offer you something closer to market rate. One job I had as a network admin and field engineer just wasn't paying enough so I asked for a raise. I told the network manager I was going to do it, but he advised I wait until the afternoon. I had an inkling why, but did not wish to appear greedily opportunistic. My request was met with a "good luck with that, don't let the door hit you in the ass" response. An hour later, the network manger submitted his resignation and the CIO realized I was the only other person who knew how the network was put together. I got a 10% raise, and double digit raises twice a year for the next several years...until they hired a 23 year old master CNE who had all of the knowledge and was probably half the price.

[LordMortis]

My employer re-evaluates every few years and puts me in the top 20% or better tier for what I do in the industry, as well as the actual job type. And then they expand expectations through "goal setting" wash, rinse, repeat until broken, I guess.

I fuckin hate goal setting.

[Jeff V]

I fuckin hate goal setting.

At least it's meaningful. Last week I finished goal setting with all of my minions. 5 of the minions are now on the highest rung achievable without beating me in a death match. Combined with a static 1% annual increase whether or not they achieve any or all such goals, it's hard for any of them to take it seriously. And now I have to do quarterly progress reports on them.

[LordMortis]

I fuckin hate goal setting.

At least it's meaningful. Last week I finished goal setting with all of my minions. 5 of the minions are now on the highest rung achievable without beating me in a death match. Combined with a static 1% annual increase whether or not they achieve any or all such goals, it's hard for any of them to take it seriously. And now I have to do quarterly progress reports on them.

Technically, all meeting my goals will do, will move toward an annual 3% at the company's discretion while also ultimately adding to responsibilities. Next year they won't be goals, they'll just be "part of what I do." But what keeps happening is every several years, they re-evaluate compensation vs industry standard and they discover they're making me do a lot more than they used to, so the relative value of my postion goes up.