Apple Event 9/12/17

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:54 am

We probably know everything but the price tag from the leak this weekend - but maybe they will find a way to surprise us?

Starts in about an hour.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:56 am

And I will watching it as part of my job. How did I get here?

Hamlet3145 · Post by **Hamlet3145** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:35 pm

Apple watch just went full Dick Tracy. Cellular will be built in. I still don't want one, but that is neat at least.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:41 pm

hentzau wrote:And I will watching it as part of my job. How did I get here?

Same as it ever was...

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:18 pm

Between moving my wife to a Samsung S8 Active and me to an iPhone 8 Plus, I look to be spending over $1,600 in new phones by year's end.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:19 pm

I remember when phones cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Of course there was a house attached.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:29 pm

"Who can unlock your iPhone X?"

"No one"

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:33 pm

The many faced god?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:39 pm

1950: "In 2017, they're going to have flying cars, a colony on the moon..."

2017: "There's an animated poop onstage. "If you were wondering what humanity would do when given access to the most advanced face tracking technology available, you now have your answer.""

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:02 pm

Wife and I keep posturing about buying new phones "for each other" for xmas, but the S8 is too pricey. I wonder if anyone's still selling new S6s. That would be a good step up from our S4s and it shouldn't break the bank.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:11 pm

The Apple Watch series 3 brings in a new revenue stream for the cellular providers and acts as a mover for folks to move to Apple Music. I was pretty meh until I watched the call between the theater and the lady on the paddle board. That moved it to "pretty cool for some folks." But no real use case there for me.

The iPhone 8 is the logical next generation of the iPhone 7. The camera improvements are on track with what we've seen leading up to this point (cool that the portrait photography is now available in the smaller form factor). The wireless charging looks like one of those features I'd actively avoid using in its first incarnation -- let some of those kinks get worked out for a generation. I think the AR Kit stuff *is* going to be pretty fantastic. I saw a video last week of a measurement demonstration showing some really fantastic stuff. (Gaming implications are lost on me, but that's more about me than the technology.)

iPhone X ("ten" not "ecks") looks like a full bundle of items in which I don't want to be at the front of the line. Yes, that OLED display is cool, but "seamlessly reaching to the edge of the device?" Not at all, and that's in the two-hour marketing event showing everything in the best possible light. Face recognition for an unlock? It's definitely going to take time (and millions of uses) before they figure out how to pull that off without becoming annoying. Again, cool looking technology, but you couldn't charge me half the price to get me to put one in my pocket as my primary cell phone.

The Apple TV 4k (with HDR) is going to be a purchase for me. Not because it looks like a revolutionary device, but because I'm a few generations behind and the current 3rd gen device does not match well with my TV's capabilities. On top of that, the 3rd gen will be very nicely repurposed for a TV in a separate room for NHL Live/Netflix/Amazon Prime viewing, along with a very convenient AirPlay (mostly used for music) receiver. I've seen the Apple TV app used on a recent generation hardware device in other homes, and I've been impressed with how it works out, so I'm eager to finally bring that to our living room.

So much of what we saw today will boil down to implementation. Apple used to be the gold standard for trotting out home runs right off the bat. Maybe it's my experience with WatchOS 1 (never officially called by that name, but you know what I mean) but I do not have the expectation for a frustration-free first-time experience with Apple innovations at the moment. The Face ID really looks rife with the possibilities for a lot of no fun every time you want to use your phone.

I'm probably on board for the iPhone X-and-a-half, though. Especially if some of the rumored true-wireless charging technology times out for that implementation. (Moving the wire to a pad sitting on your desktop or dresser is not really all that wireless IMO.)

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:13 pm

6's are still being sold new. The discounted prices on the 7's aren't really particularly discounted, however I'm a huge fan of my 7+ over my 6s, so maybe the few hundred dollars extra would be worth it.

[edit to add:]Comparisons at the smallest available memory footprint (which changes from 32 GB to 64 GB pre-8 vs. 8):
iPhone 7 are -$150 from comparable iPhone 8.
iPhone 6s are -$250 from i8.
iPhone SE is -$350 from i8.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:14 pm

I'm still using an original iPhone 5. With the recent announcement that it's a dead-end for iOS support, this might be the time I upgrade to a 6 or 7. I'd like to get the largest (physical) size as possible as I am the anti-Derek Zoolander.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:24 pm

We'll be ordering several of the X's for security testing.

Facial recognition = heartburn. I had to fight for thumbprint, this is liable to be a real issue with our security folks.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:24 pm

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:29 pm

The Meal wrote:The wireless charging looks like one of those features I'd actively avoid using in its first incarnation -- let some of those kinks get worked out for a generation.

Wireless charging is using the open Qi standard, and they're partnering with companies already active in the space like Belkin. The tech inside the iPhone might be first-gen for them, but it's certainly something that's been out and about in the wild for a few years.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:33 pm

The Meal wrote: Yes, that OLED display is cool, but "seamlessly reaching to the edge of the device?" Not at all, and that's in the two-hour marketing event showing everything in the best possible light.

I didn't get to watch it live, just read through some blogs. What is the complaint here? They aren't the first one to have a full screen OLED...it should be pretty solid tech.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:34 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:

A thousand dollars?!!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:34 pm

wonderpug wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
A thousand dollars?!!

Nope - $999!

Edit: I saw a report about a month ago that pegged it at $1199, so this is quite the savings.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm

wonderpug wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
A thousand dollars?!!

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:52 pm

stessier wrote:
wonderpug wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
A thousand dollars?!!
Nope - $999!

Edit: I saw a report about a month ago that pegged it at $1199, so this is quite the savings.

Note that $999 is for the starting 64GB model. The 256GB is probably going to be close to the $1200 price tag you saw earlier.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:54 pm

I could almost buy my own ship for that!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:55 pm

Who's going to fire thousands of infrared dots at your face, kid? You?!

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:01 pm

stessier wrote:
The Meal wrote: Yes, that OLED display is cool, but "seamlessly reaching to the edge of the device?" Not at all, and that's in the two-hour marketing event showing everything in the best possible light.
I didn't get to watch it live, just read through some blogs. What is the complaint here? They aren't the first one to have a full screen OLED...it should be pretty solid tech.

Not the tech, the implementation. I do not find the iPhone X to look particularly appealing. The gap between the edge of the working OLED and the edge of the device, even in the marketing material, (especially in the marketing material -- they frequently showed not a screen capture of the device, but an image of the device in use, as if they thought that I'd be impressed by the very obvious gap would look appealing to me) looks really clunky. YMMV. Heck, the in person experience may be a lot better. But in the presentation it looked pretty shitty. To me.

[edit to add:]iPhone X

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:04 pm

What's up with the upgrades just the 8 brings? Would the internet be relatively excited about it if it was the only new iPhone coming out this fall without the X stealing the thunder?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:27 pm

Wireless charging is pretty neat.

Moving to 256 GB will come with $150 premium on all three models.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:30 pm

wonderpug wrote:What's up with the upgrades just the 8 brings? Would the internet be relatively excited about it if it was the only new iPhone coming out this fall without the X stealing the thunder?

Not particularly different than the 7 vs. the 6s upgrades. They're evolutionary rather than revolutionary. In my experience those have made for the better Apple devices. It's been called a tick/tock cycle for Apple. Every other year they dump a lot of new stuff into their phones. The "off years" have made for much better product experiences for me. Because of the iPhone X, they have their first tic/tock/tock cycle. Debated amongst the rumor mongers is whether this is the new normal. (I would think that this is the case as it's pretty hard to keep at the same pace as the first few years of a new product introduction.)

I also think the AR Kit stuff is going to be much bigger than its originally perceived to be. Here is the video I mentioned upthread.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:38 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
The Meal wrote:The wireless charging looks like one of those features I'd actively avoid using in its first incarnation -- let some of those kinks get worked out for a generation.
Wireless charging is using the open Qi standard, and they're partnering with companies already active in the space like Belkin. The tech inside the iPhone might be first-gen for them, but it's certainly something that's been out and about in the wild for a few years.

Yes. And how well is it going to work with the initial batch of 3rd party cases available for the iPhones? It's not like this is a slam-dunk for the iPhone, as it was one of the features discussed as delaying the release of the phones.

We both know how much of a scramble mode the design team had to be if they were still struggling with these items last July. I'm guessing implementation will not be flawless for the first few months after product release. I'd be happy to be wrong on this.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:43 pm

The Meal wrote:iPhone X ("ten" not "ecks") looks like a full bundle of items in which I don't want to be at the front of the line. Yes, that OLED display is cool, but "seamlessly reaching to the edge of the device?" Not at all, and that's in the two-hour marketing event showing everything in the best possible light. Face recognition for an unlock? It's definitely going to take time (and millions of uses) before they figure out how to pull that off without becoming annoying.

I'm confused, all of those things are established technologies already, no? Wireless charging, Facial recognition unlock, OLED screens are all reasonable old news (except maybe the facial recognition has only been around this year maybe).

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:45 pm

hentzau wrote:The 256GB is probably going to be close to the $1200 price tag you saw earlier.

$1149 ($150 upcharge for the extra storage).

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:47 pm

But it's Apple's first time to implement them in a mass production scenario.

As much as I feel the pull of the 8 Plus, my 6 Plus isn't showing the age that my 3G and 4S have shown at the 3-year mark. I'm seriously considering attempting to get a fourth year out of it.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:51 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:But it's Apple's first time to implement them in a mass production scenario.

It is, but typically the advantage of waiting years to implement features that Android gets out into the wild is that they are much more well understood by the time they add them. I mean there certainly could be issues, but I don't really expect them. Especially on the wireless charging front - that's old technology at this point (for the case makers too).

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:56 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
The Meal wrote:iPhone X ("ten" not "ecks") looks like a full bundle of items in which I don't want to be at the front of the line. Yes, that OLED display is cool, but "seamlessly reaching to the edge of the device?" Not at all, and that's in the two-hour marketing event showing everything in the best possible light. Face recognition for an unlock? It's definitely going to take time (and millions of uses) before they figure out how to pull that off without becoming annoying.
I'm confused, all of those things are established technologies already, no? Wireless charging, Facial recognition unlock, OLED screens are all reasonable old news (except maybe the facial recognition has only been around this year maybe).

True statement, but Isgrim has my take on it as well. Apple is not re-implementing these technologies. They're trotting out their own take on these things, based on their own chipsets, their own internal device spacing layouts and form factor, their own firmware, and their own software. Sure they're later to the party than other phone manufacturers which (should) bring with it less of an engineering challenge, but they're also up against their own Apple-constraints such as sufficient testing to not get products banned from airlines. My understanding is that they don't tend to reverse engineer and re-implement other companies products as much as engineer them ground up in what they think is the more appropriate manner.

If wireless charging was truly an off-the-shelf soup-to-nuts drop-in design feature for a cell phone, then I doubt we'd have heard about how it was going to be delaying release of the device in April and July.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:12 pm

To a degree yeah, but they aren't starting in a vacuum, and their engineers are generally speaking pretty capable (Apple Maps team notwithstanding). None of what is in this phone has me concerned about being an early adopter other than the price.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:15 pm

Kraken wrote:Wife and I keep posturing about buying new phones "for each other" for xmas, but the S8 is too pricey. I wonder if anyone's still selling new S6s. That would be a good step up from our S4s and it shouldn't break the bank.

S5 has the best feature set, S7 next best. The S6 was a turd.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:24 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:As much as I feel the pull of the 8 Plus, my 6 Plus isn't showing the age that my 3G and 4S have shown at the 3-year mark. I'm seriously considering attempting to get a fourth year out of it.

I'm feeling the pull of the X, but like you my 6 non-plus isn't aging as much as my previous iStuff has aged. Getting another year out of it doesn't seem like it would hurt that much.

Do iPhones hit a mid-year refresh/price drop like other iThings do, or does the price hold steady for a full 12 months? I might hold my horses at least until Christmas bills are paid off and the next tax return and work bonus check arrive.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:27 pm

Seems like the X is already behind the times in many areas compared to the Galaxy s8 and s8+. Glad I stuck with it.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:31 pm

Afaik, the prices you see above will be the prices you see next August with no changes.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:51 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Kraken wrote:Wife and I keep posturing about buying new phones "for each other" for xmas, but the S8 is too pricey. I wonder if anyone's still selling new S6s. That would be a good step up from our S4s and it shouldn't break the bank.
S5 has the best feature set, S7 next best. The S6 was a turd.

I will ask you more about these in a future non-Apple thread. Don't know much about them except that it's time to upgrade from S4.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:44 pm

The AR game they showed off looked neat, but I don't see AR taking off in any major way. People generally don't like looking silly and waving a thing around. People thought motion controls were neat, but then backlashed on those hard. People thought the AR thing in Pokemon Go was neat, then turned it off. The game they showed was neat on screen, but it's a shitty way to play a game in all but ideal circumstances. Like, you couldn't play that game on a bus, and even in the ideal circumstances, the dude looked pretty silly.

I suspect AR will wind up having some interesting applications, but generally kind of fizzle for general use.